Kitchen from scratch. [Archive]

Shedhand

12th August 2006, 10:12 AM

G'day all.

Our extension is ready to have a kitchen built. The problem I have is universal. I've run out of money and can't aford a professionally built kitchen.
I have all the necessary tools to do this kind of work including access to a 12" Table saw with big sliding thingy for cutting sheets of melamine MDF.

A kitchen builder has offered to two pack spray my doors.:)
Can anyone point me to blueprints/plans for kitchen carcasses so I can make my own. :confused:
Cheers and thanx in advance. :)

PS: I'm in Hobart ( a backwater of contemporary kitchen fashion) so I can't get ready mades from Sydney or any mainland state for that matter unless the freight is free. :D

snowyskiesau

12th August 2006, 10:31 AM

I installed a new kitchen about 6 years ago, all built from scratch.
To get an idea as to how the carcasses were put together and to get measurements for height, depth, etc. I visited as many kitchen display centres as I could with tape measure in hand and made as many notes as I could. I also collected brochures as some of them gave details of the construction.
I then worked out the types of cupboards I wanted and their sizes and calculated the various panel sizes required. I got the boards (16 mm HMR melamine) cut to size by the supplier as they were able to cut more accurately than I could, plus they could cut them without chipping the melamine.
All I had to do was put them together.
I might still have some of the assembly details for the pre packs. If so, I'll dig them up and scan them.

mic-d

12th August 2006, 11:40 AM

I can't remember the numbers, but AWR had a story over two issues on cabinet building.

CHeers
Michael

snowyskiesau

12th August 2006, 12:08 PM

If all you are after is construction details rather than detailed plans, try this link:

http://www.smartpackkit.com.au/

Under the Info Centre tab, there is a heading Cabinet Assembly Drawings that give the basic construction of the carcasses.

This is the same info I used when creating my kitchen.

boban

12th August 2006, 12:41 PM

Here are the basics.

Benchtop standard dimensions 600mm wide. 900mm for a breakfast bar.

I build my carcasses 546mm deep. With an 18mm door it will get you to 564mm deep.

Kickboards I build seperately and they are 150mm high and 500mm deep. Otherwise you can get the adjustable legs from someone like Hafele.

Carcasses end up being 735mm high. How they are constructed is a matter for you. The bases always extend the full width so that the sides sit on the base. That means the sides are cut to 719mm. You do not need a top for the carcass

Top cupboards are usually either 730mm or 600mm in height and 300mm deep.

You will find that most doors are 730mm in height and vary in width although I dont like to go beyond 450mm. I also always use 3 hinges per door. 2 up top and 1 down below.

If I were you I would look for a cutting service and get the 2400mm boards ripped/cut to 719mm widths (for the sides and backs) 546mm (for the bases). This will save you handling large sheets. Make a cutting list. Mine is always in the form of a sketched drawing

If you break the whole process down into little bits you will see that it is not an overly difficult task as far as skills are concerned (butt joints galore). It is however time consuming and more so for the inexperienced person.

Do a basic design and work in regular sizes. Say 900mm for the sink cupboard and 800mm (or whatever suits you best) for most other cupboards and it will be done in no time.

Then post questions as you need to before you undertake the task at hand.

The beauty of this is that if you build the base first and get it level, you can then put the cupboards in as you build them. You'll soon see how small your shed is otherwise.

And just to finish. Whilst there are some regular sizes, there are no set dimensions. You can design the kitchen any way you like.

duckman

12th August 2006, 01:05 PM

G'day Shedhand,

the AWR (Australian Wood Review) articles that mic-d referred to, are in issues numbers 38 & 39. It's a two part article but its not very extensive because as Boban has illustrated, there's really not much to kitchen cupboards. :)

Good luck with it.

Cheers,

Mark.

Jack52

12th August 2006, 02:36 PM

Go to you local library and do a search under cabinet making. I don't know about Tassie libaries but the Brisbane library has some very useful books including some specifically dealing with kitchen cabinets, including doors and fitting hinges etc.. Only problem is most of them are american and the measurements are in feet and inches.

best of luck

Jack

Sturdee

12th August 2006, 06:21 PM

If you can build a box, you can make kitchen cabinets. Drawers are boxes that slide in another box sitting on its side.:D

I built my kitchen and found that my wife preferred drawers rather than shelves so it was building boxes and boxes till I was sick of them. So for the last cabinet I put in shelves and then I had to change it to sliding shelves.:D

So get SWMBO to design what they want.

Also visit some specialist stores that deal in kitchen supplies. In Melbourne I go to Wilson & Bradley who may have a branch in Hobart. They are much cheaper and better to deal with than the bulk stores. If you are putting in drawers get the gadget to hold the runner whilst you mark out the screw holes. Makes fitting them so much easier.

Peter.

GraemeCook

12th August 2006, 06:50 PM

Hi Shedhand

Helped a friend build a kitchen about ten years ago - before Gunns subsumed Rompkes.

He had the same problem, almost out of cash, so we built the carcases, no doors and put on a single sheet of melamine as the bench top. Painted the top with a one pot epoxy paint (tough) - KillRust, I think. Result was a fashionable, open shelf kitchen that looked better than it sounds.

A year later they had a butcher block top put on, and two years later we put on the doors.

If I was building a kitchen, I'd be like Sturdee and put in drawers rather than shelves. A little more expensive, more work, but you get a lot more usable and accessable storage space.

In Hobart, Uptons at Mornington (bigger than Argyle St) usually have far better prices for melamine, doors, hinges, drawer slides, etc, than Bunnings or K&D.

Cheers

Graeme

Pulse

12th August 2006, 07:17 PM

I recently built two kitchens from from scratch. Boban is on the money, I'll run through my details and suppliers:

Timber:
16mm HMR melamine from laminex
-550 x 3600 long pre edged - for all floor cupboards
-300 x 3600 long pre edged - for wall cupboards
-600 x 3600 long for wall cupboard backs
3mm white craftwood 761mm x 2400 for floor cupboard backs
18mm MDF 2400 x 1200 for trims and doors

Painting:
HVLP set up
edges filled with runny timbermate
sanded with 320 grit and 240 grit to take off corners/edges
mirotone mirobild acid-catalysed 2 part polyurethane 1 primer, 2 topcoats

Hardware: (all from Nover www.nover.com.au (http://www.nover.com.au))
Hettich hinges and metal sided door runners (means you only cut floors and backs of drawers.)
Adjustable feet with snap-on kicks
stainless steel handles.
Recessed downlights from electrical supplier

other tips
-use a good panel saw, I had access to a professional shop saw and it took about 7 hours to cut up 800kg of board.
- buy all in one drill/countersinks and have a couple of cordless drills handy.
- I used the measurements from the lamikits from laminex. I planned each sheet of board and had laser printer labels to stick to each one as I cut it.

Overall the painting is the hardest and most time consuming bit,

Good luck, let me know if you need any other info.

Cheers
Pulse

b1ueshift

12th August 2006, 07:31 PM

I used a second hand kitchen to get most of my carcasses. If you get a good one cheap, it can work out cheaper than making them yourself - and less labour as well.

boban

12th August 2006, 09:00 PM

If you are putting in drawers get the gadget to hold the runner whilst you mark out the screw holes. Makes fitting them so much easier.

Peter.

Drawers upon drawers and a few more drawers is exactly the way my wife wants her 'dream' kitchen (blumotion type drawers no less). I reckon a drawer cabinet takes about 4 times as much work than a standard cabinet but is that much more efficient as far as storage is concerned.

I actually install all my runners on the sides before assembling the cabinet. I just use a set square and draw the lines where the runners will go and then screw in the runners. It is even easier than the jig and is not specific to just one type of runner.

Shedhand

12th August 2006, 11:35 PM

Excellent array of advice. Very much appreciated guys. Gives me a lot of hope that I can do a half way reasonable job of it. Will start the planning tomorrow with wifey.
Cheers :)
Mike

Guy

13th August 2006, 12:10 AM

Have a look at these files:
1 (http://plyboard.com.au/admin/files/KitchenDesignGuide_OrderForm.pdf)
2 (http://plyboard.com.au/admin/files/Kitchens_Check_List.pdf)
3 (http://plyboard.com.au/admin/files/RetailPriceList.pdf)
4 (http://kitsetkitchens.com.au/downloads/kitset_planning_guide_060322.pdf)
5 (http://kitsetkitchens.com.au/downloads/kitset_kitchens_brochure.pdf)
these would help you out with your design's
I am not familiar with any companies that do cutting services in Tassie but there are many in Melb that do and ship there.
Have a look online at hettich's website and look at the ecomat hinges and the multitech drawers, if your on a budget stay away from the inotech drawers as they are expensive.

Shedhand

13th August 2006, 12:23 PM

GraemeCook

13th August 2006, 03:25 PM

Shedhand

You generated some interesting and useful posts. Well done all.

When we did the kitchen, in the absence of a cutting service, my mate bought a new 80 tooth 235 saw blade for real smooth minimum chip cuts. It was great. Also made up a cutting jig and cut everthing the same day. All pieces the same length (eg verticals) were cut at the same time so they were exactly the same length.

A little foible of mine. If you look in your cutlery drawer you will see a lot of waste space above the cutlery to the top of the drawer. You can therefore make the drawer lower and use the space more profitably for something else. Eg Three drawers in the space normally occupied by two.

Boban

Found your posts very helpful and informative but have a couple of questions.

Why do you have 2400 melamine ripped to your specified dimensions, rather than design the carcases to use standard narrow width, pre-edged melamine?

How do you arrange the hinges; Why two at the top rather than one in the middle?

Thanks and Cheers

Graeme

Lionel

15th August 2006, 07:43 PM

Hi all, I know its probably been done to death but I wanted to renew our kitchen on a very tight budget. While poking around Bunnings I noticed a flatpax kitchen on display. I took a close look at the cabinets etc and realised I can do this. Available also was a catalogue which gave all the finished dimensions for all pantrys, base units, overheads and benches. this catalogue becomes your bible. I bought enough melamine to build one single 400mm base cabinet. The only tools needed were a small circular saw [with a good quality narrow klef blade] a decent straight edge which doubled as a saw fence, a square and probably, most importantly, common sense. It was just like a bought one. So I then worked out a plan for the kitchen, worked out how much and what sizes of sheets I would need to keep wastage down to a minimum and hey presto! To give an idea of how much money was saved: I got quoted $6355 for a custom built kitchen uninstalled, If i bought all the cabinets I needed from Bunnings I would have forked out $3500. The kitchen cost me $1400 including benchtops. If you have the time, the tools and the basic ability to use them then do it.

boban

16th August 2006, 01:00 AM

Boban

Found your posts very helpful and informative but have a couple of questions.

Why do you have 2400 melamine ripped to your specified dimensions, rather than design the carcases to use standard narrow width, pre-edged melamine?

How do you arrange the hinges; Why two at the top rather than one in the middle?

Thanks and Cheers

Graeme

I have a panel saw so I buy my panels full size and cut them down. The pre-edged stuff is OK but expensive when you talk about large amounts. I also have an edgebander so there is another reason. Even those little edgebanders are good value for money.

The reason I suggest getting them cut down to a particular size is that it makes it very easy to work with a ~700 x 1200mm sheet with only a marginally increased expense when compared to buying a 2400 x 1200 sheet. They are also very accurately cut. Even with a panel saw, cutting the sheets down to these sizes is what I find the most labour intensive and most likely to cause a lifting injury. You would be surprised just how many sheets a kitchen eats up.

You can do what you suggest, its just that I've never done it that way mainly because of the cost and the pre-edged stuff I've seen in hardware chains is not HMR (High Moisture Resistant) Board as its made for shelving not wet areas. To be honest I can't remember the last time I looked at board in a hardware.

With respect to the hinges, you will find that the top one is the site of most failures, not on the doors so much but on the carcasses. I saw this method at a high end kitchen manufacturer and have followed suit. It makes sense to me even if it costs an extra couple of dollars per door. Locating it in the middle would help but not as well as putting it up the top.

Think of it this way, a door always wants to fall because of its weight and a thing called gravity. Its prevented from doing so by the hinges. On the top hinge you have a pulling force, and on the botton a pushing force. By placing an additional hinge at the top, that pulling force is taken up by 4 screws instead of 2. That's my understanding of the theory behind it anyway.

GraemeCook

16th August 2006, 11:18 AM

Thanks Boban

Burried in your response was that you use HMR {High Moisture Resistant} board for your kitchen carcases.

I did not know that HMR even existed.

Makes one wonder how many kitchens there are out there that were made from non-HMR MDF. Do many of the professional installers specify HMR? Do the kits contain HMR? How do you say HMR in Chinese?

Cheers

Graeme

SandyB

16th August 2006, 12:00 PM

arms

16th August 2006, 09:05 PM

Hi All,
Such an awesome site. I am absolutely not into doing home renovations by myself. But after reading few threads here and at other forums I am highly motivated to do it myself.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
I am currently taking quotes to redo my existing kitchen. It's a standard size kitchen. The quotes vary from A$ 12K to 20K including a granite benchtop, sink, gloss vinyl wrap doors but excluding appliances. I don't want to spend more than A$10K as we intend to turn this property into an investment after about a year.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
My existing kitchen cabinets are in good condition. Now here is my list of questions.<O:p></O:p>
1. Can I reuse my cabinets and put new doors to it?<O:p></O:p>

A if the carcases are in good condition and the layout is workable then this is an option that can work

2. If I am making cabinets from scratch what material (MDF, timber etc) is good and cost effective?<O:p></O:p>

A all cabinets are made from white covered particale board

3. As I am also getting a floating timber floor laid in kitchen and adjoining family area, adds few more questions to the list like <O:p></O:p>
1. is it ok to have a floating timber floor in kitchen ? I mean what happens if your sink overflows or say dishwasher leaks ?<O:p></O:p>

A You have answered youself (insurance is a great thing)

2. Should I do the flooring first and then the kitchen or vice versa. I have heard two different versions of this from the tradesman so that has added to my agony.<O:p></O:p>

A depends really on the quality of your substrate in the flooring,if you persist in getting the floating floor the cabbies will tell you to lay it after the kitchen is installed and the floories will tell you to get the kitchen installed after they have layed the floor ,human nature being as it is both trades are looking after themselves ,go figure ,as ned kelly is said to have said just before they hanged him "such is life "

Hope it's not too much of a questionnaire of a new comer.<O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Thanks<O:p></O:p>
SandyB

ian

16th August 2006, 09:59 PM

Graeme

I wouldn't use anything less than moisture resistant particle board
Kitchens have sinks and dishwashers, which from time to time overflow

ian

ian

16th August 2006, 10:08 PM

I am currently taking quotes to redo my existing kitchen. It's a standard size kitchen. The quotes vary from A$ 12K to 20K including a granite benchtop, sink, gloss vinyl wrap doors but excluding appliances. I don't want to spend more than A$10K as we intend to turn this property into an investment after about a year.
</O:p
My existing kitchen cabinets are in good condition. Now here is my list of questions.
1. Can I reuse my cabinets and put new doors to it?yes, but instally new hinges might be TOO hard (read expensive) making new cabinets more cost effective
2. If I am making cabinets from scratch what material (MDF, timber etc) is good and cost effective?melamine coated moisture resistant board. Going a bit upmarket, you'd use laminate coated MR board (it's much easier to keep clean)
3. As I am also getting a floating timber floor laid in kitchen and adjoining family area, adds few more questions to the list like <O:p</O:p
1. is it ok to have a floating timber floor in kitchen ? I mean what happens if your sink overflows or say dishwasher leaks ?you'll get water on the floor and the cabinets will get wet.
what happens nest depends on whether the materials are high moisture resistant — if they are, mob up the water and get on with life, if the're not ...
2. Should I do the flooring first and then the kitchen or vice versa. I have heard two different versions of this from the tradesman so that has added to my agony.<O:pI'd get the cabinets done first, cause if you do the floor first you're sure as chipos going to scratch it putting in the cabinets

have fun
ian

SandyB

17th August 2006, 10:47 AM

Thanks heaps Ian. Higly appreciate it.
Sorry for so many smilies I didn't intend to post it that way.

Cool. so to start with
1. Rip the old kitchen out (I guess I can reuse some cabinets in my garden shed, garage, laundry etc.)
2. Re-check the quotes to see what cabinet material each one of them is offering and I guess I might go with
laminate coated MR board.
3. Get cabinets done first followed by floors

Awesome. Might come back with some more questions as I get more and more into it.

Also I ll keep this post updated with my progress.

SandyB

Sybarite

17th August 2006, 06:49 PM

If you are installing a floating floor is there a big height difference between before and after?
This might be something to consider re the relationship this has with the finished height of your benchtops.

Personally I favour the floor first school.
If the entire area is floored evenly then any changes or additions only have to deal with the same given.

Any kitchen you install should have carcasses made of Australian Made High Moisture Resistant Board coated on both sides with white melamine.
It is not neccesary and there are no advantages to building a carcase set out of MRMDF unless you happen to have a lot of lying around.

Respect, all.

renomart

18th August 2006, 10:24 AM

It is not neccesary and there are no advantages to building a carcase set out of MRMDF unless you happen to have a lot of lying around.

...and you have massive muscles. MDF carcases are quite heavy! :)

SandyB

18th August 2006, 12:53 PM

Thanks Sybarite,

If you are installing a floating floor is there a big height difference between before and after?
I don't know yet, at this stage I am getting quotes.

Thanks Arms,

depends really on the quality of your substrate in the flooring,if you persist in getting the floating floor the cabbies will tell you to lay it after the kitchen is installed and the floories will tell you to get the kitchen installed after they have layed the floor ,human nature being as it is both trades are looking after themselves ,go figure ,as ned kelly is said to have said just before they hanged him "such is life "

That's so true, and what I understand so far is that there is no right or wrong to the sequence it's just a matter of decision.

Well, might advance a bit more than quotes I guess, over the weekend.

Ya all have a nice one.

SandyB

Ben (TM)

18th August 2006, 02:52 PM

By putting the floor in after you get a couple of minor benefits:

1. No damage by other trades
2. Slightly less square meterage

The down side is that the finish won't be as neat (maybe dependant on who does it)

Just random thoughts though - I'm definitely no expert

Damon_11

22nd August 2006, 12:06 AM

Hi all,

Apart from the self satisfaction feeling of building your own, I suggest a bit of homework and get a quote direct from Laminex on Redikits and Contour doors. If you stick to standard colours the Contour doors come in, you will get out of it for not much. I just did my large kitchen with just about all drawers and overheads this way for $1500 for kits, Colour tech doors with rolled edges, hinges all the scres, legs, everything ready for the benchtop. If you have something easy and select a plain door style on double width carcasses, you might get out of it for <$1000.

Try these

http://www.thelaminexgroup.com.au/downloads/trade_essentials/TradeGuide_ReadiKit.pdf

Have a poke around at the other trade stock available direct

http://www.thelaminexgroup.com.au/tradeessentials/index.asp

And at the bottom of this page is Laminex's clearance stock

http://www.thelaminexgroup.com.au/clearance.asp

I just had a browse at the Victorian stock (from where tassie is supplied) they have full sized colourpanels in varying colour selection from $7 through to $44. A few of these panels and some matching edgestrip and you will be in the money.

Hope that helps.....DC :)

Bleedin Thumb

29th August 2006, 07:08 PM

Just (almost) finished my kitchen from scratch. I got my bench tops made of gluelam tassie oak from Fenton Timbers in Waverley TAS. - (Bruce 03 63355288). I got around 8 metres of bench 600 wide 37 mm thick for under $1K incl. delivered to Sydney.
The cheapest price I got up here was $1300 for laminex and the cheapest solid timber bench was $3,500. I was really happy with the quality and service from them. Mind you then came the cutting,sanding and 3-4 coats of polyurethane. Worth the effort though.

GraemeCook

30th August 2006, 11:11 AM

Any kitchen you install should have carcasses made of Australian Made High Moisture Resistant Board coated on both sides with white melamine.

It is not neccesary and there are no advantages to building a carcase set out of MRMDF unless you happen to have a lot of lying around.

Respect, all.

Hi Sybarite

Just re-reading your post from a week ago and I am a little confused. Please all, no comments that I am always confused.

Aybarite, are you saying that it's a waste of money to use MRMDF in the kitchen, or is it different from High Moisture Resistant Board?

Bet there is a simple explanation that I have missed.

Cheers

Graeme

Sybarite

30th August 2006, 11:56 AM

Hi Graeme,

There is a difference between the two sorts of board.

HMR board, otherwise known as High Moisture Resistant is generally a "particleboard" sheet which has been fabricated using a moisture repellent adhesive/sealant - this gives the board a greenish tinge.

MRMDF is Moisture Resistant Medium Density Fibreboard; which is MDF that also uses a moisture repellent bonding agent.

Both boards are suitable for cabinetry in a kitchen area, but my point was that HMR board is adequate for carcasses whereas MRMDF is tending towards overkill.
There is no real need for using MRMDF as all the cuts are square and there is no edge profiling going on; and as Renomart said, it is seriously heavy.

I hope this clears things up a bit.

Respect, all.

Shedhand

30th August 2006, 03:14 PM

G'day all.
This is how I'm going about the kitchen.

85x19 t&g oak flooring first - then sanded and semi-finished.
kit cabinets from Laminex (Redikits)
picked up all my whitegoods today (saved 2k buying all atsame place and paying cash - mixture of smeg, panasonic, Fisher Paykel and omega (smeg) brands.
Will order carcases to suit whitegood dimensions (wife wanted i this way - woman can't think spacially) :rolleyes:
Make and hang the doors and end panels my self ( 2 hinges at top and 1 at bottom)
decoarative glass splashbacks
Laminex rolled formed benchtops. (We don't like granite).Should come in under 8.5 grand (not counting the floor).

I really don't think its worth the effort for the small saving making the cabinets myself. The Redkits come with Hettich fittings and are very well made.

Cheers all and thanks for all the advice.
Mike

taswegian

2nd September 2006, 08:24 PM

Just another 2cents worth - State library tas has some brilliant books on design and construction for kitchen stuff, but as pointed out, its not that complex. I got about half my drawer runners from Parbury (Blum) in glenorchy (wayyy cheaper than mitre10/bunnings) the other half I got from Rockler online (Accuride) and although they cost about the same in the end, the rockler ones are all on steel ball bearings (not cheap nylon wheels) and they are sweet! Also a much greater range of fitting types/ uses available - in the same order I got a couple of sets of pull out pantry slides, cost about A$100 each, rated at about 120kg, made 2 full height full extension pull out pantrys, they look great, and they didnt cost $600-800 each. Food for thought.