repainting gloss surfaces

[mic-d]

I have been gradually repainting the gloss in our house (skirts, archs, doors windows etc) and have finally evolved a failsafe method which I thought I would share.
Firstly here's some of the problems I've had.
1) I repainted 3 gloss enamel doors with gloss enamel after washing them down and applying a coat of ESP. The paint peeled as soon as it was bumped by something.

What I've learned- ESP is not all it promises to be in terms of making paint stick without sanding.

2)The next set of doors I sanded to key the surface, then applied a coat of ESP, then applied a gloss acrylic, which in many places started crawling.

What I've learned - Sugar soap will not necessarily clean the surface well enough. I suspect that some of the doors were cleaned at some stage with something containing silicone.

How I paint gloss surfaces now- If the surface is dirty I give it a wash with sugar soap and wipe with fresh water. Then I wipe the entire surface down with a grease and wax remover (I got mine from supercheap auto- one used for preclean of automotive finishes which takes off silicone). Then I apply a coat of Zinsser BIN primer sealer, which is a shellac base. It sticks to anything. Then apply one or two topcoats of either enamel or acrylic gloss (which I prefer due to its non-yellowing) and you're done. No sanding, no peeling.

I put a coat of Zinsser on some gloss enamel architraves yesterday and today it can't be budged with the thumbnail test, it really is good stuff.
And those three peeling doors? A half day of scraping and sanding and they're now ready for repainting. If only I knew then...

:o

Hope this helps someone.
Cheers
Michael

[floobyduster]

If you use one of those green scouring pads to wash the sugar soap with you get a light sand at the same time :)

[elphingirl]

Michael

This thread is extremely helpful to me! I am still in contemplation-choosing colour phase - but there's an awful lot of gloss work coming up, so thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Cheers
Elphingirl

[Bob38S]

.......... Then apply one or two topcoats of either enamel or acrylic gloss (which I prefer due to its non-yellowing) and you're done. No sanding, no peeling.

........
:o

Hope this helps someone.
Cheers
Michael
G'day Michael,
the acrylic gloss -- is that Aqua enamel?
How do you apply it? Brush or Spray?
If Spray - what system do you use?
I have been led to believe that you can use a low pressure pot spraygun if you thin the paint with Flotrol.
Regards,
Bob

[mic-d]

G'day Michael,
the acrylic gloss -- is that Aqua enamel?
How do you apply it? Brush or Spray?
If Spray - what system do you use?
I have been led to believe that you can use a low pressure pot spraygun if you thin the paint with Flotrol.
Regards,
Bob
Hi Bob, I've used a couple of brands but they're all just interior gloss acrylic.
I do the skirts and arcs with an edger brush and the doors with a roller. Maybe I'd spray if I were fitting new doors. Over old paint the roller provides an acceptable finish. The trick with brush or roller application is not to work the paint too much, get it on and layed off so marks aren't worked into drying paint. Or add some floetrol.

Cheers
Michael

[alanm]

I agree, ESP alone is basically useless for acrylic over internal enamel. The paint just peels off with a slight bump even a year after application. In the past I've either stripped the paint completely (a pain only reserved for doors and door frames) or given it the sanding (40 grit) of it's life.

I've got to get me some of that Zinsser stuff it sounds great.

[soundman]

The zinzer primers are wonderous ..... there are three different ones.

If they wont get you out of trouble on wood...... nothing will.

Only recently being commonly stocked and known about too.

They have some cleaners and other products too.
cheers

[Trav]

I'm in the process of repainting my trim (along with 10,000 other jobs). My simple process is to sive a very quick sand (I use one of those sanding blocks that you use to sand plasterboards), a wipedown with sugar soap, and then I use a taubman's 3 in 1 product. It goes over enamel or acrylic paint and I haven't had any problems with chipping etc.

Trav

[makka619]

I was wondering this the other day. How easy it would be to paint over a gloss surface if I decide I don't like the colour.

Guess this answers my question. Thanks for the advice. :U

[russs]

ACRYLIC PAINT OVER OIL PAINT
Oil based paints tends to adhere by solvent action on previous oil based paint, as well as by mechanical grip. Acrylic paints adhere by mechanical grip only.

So with suitable prep, such as sanding or ESP, I first use an oil based undercoat over gloss enamel, and let it dry thoroughly, at least a week if you can. The undercoat will adhere well to the oil based enamel, and provide an open flat coating that a good acrylic can grip to. It should give you a surface similar to cartridge paper. Do not add Penetrol to the undercoat, the additional oil will stop the acrylic from adhering.

I have had no problems several years after following this process to all the exterior fascias on the house, which are now finished in Solarguard instead of gloss enamel. The exterior acrylic now lasts longer and copes better with timber movement and expansion.

If painting over varnish (common in 1920's houses with brown stained woodwork) I both sand and use ESP, before the undercoat. Even then the old varnish can still be a problem with knocks on the final coat.

[Poppa]

We use Zinsser in our workshop a lot. We paint it over glossy plastics, gloss paint, enamelled metals, and we've never found anything that it won't stick to and then allow you to put a top coat over. It is marvellous stuff.

[Cliff Rogers]

I hate painting. :cool:

[smeds]

check these out as well, they are put out by dulux and are apparently very good as well, please note i have no ties to the dulux company



PrepLock Quick Dry Oil Based Stain Blocker (http://www.dulux.com.au/products/dulux-interior-products/preparation/product-detail?product=2274)

Solvent borne prepcoat

PrepLock Quick Dry Oil Based Stain Blocker (http://www.dulux.com.au/products/dulux-interior-products/preparation/product-detail?product=2274)

Solvent borne prepcoat

PrepLock Shellac Based Stain Blocker (http://www.dulux.com.au/products/dulux-interior-products/preparation/product-detail?product=2275)

Shellac based prepcoat

PrepLock (http://www.dulux.com.au/products/dulux-interior-products/preparation/product-detail?product=2276)


PrepLock Shellac Based Stain Blocker (http://www.dulux.com.au/products/dulux-interior-products/preparation/product-detail?product=2275) :U:U

Shellac based prepcoat

PrepLock (http://www.dulux.com.au/products/dulux-interior-products/preparation/product-detail?product=2276)