Best finish for Tassie Oak?

[Dez]

G’day
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I’m hoping for a little advice on finishing options for my current project. If possible I would ‘really’ appreciate if anyone has pictures they could post of their finished work to allow a general visual idea of how the finish appears.
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My current project is a coffee table from Tassie Oak with (hopefully tasteful) Rose Gum inlays on the top. If this is completed to a satisfactory standard, permission will be granted;) to complete the full set, including the addition of an entertainment unit, 2 side/end tables and a telephone table.
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One very important factor for the finish selected is that it doesn't ‘yellow’ the appearance of the timber. The dear wife wants a very light coloured timber, hence the Tassie Oak.
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I have read a number of other posts including:
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http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=34200 (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=34200)
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From this one, I am thinking the Feast Watson Floorseal finished with EEE Ultra Shine could be a good option. Or maybe the Minwax Wipe-on Poly as I noticed they have a gloss and matt options, EEE again to finish?
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The problem is, I don’t really know how these products will affect the colour of the timber, or even if these are the best products to use. I’ll do a test before using them, but would rather spend the money on something that is ‘likely’ to work as wanted.
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Can anyone advise on the above options?
Any other options that will fit the bill?
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And even better still, does anyone have pics they can post of completed work with light coloured timber and what finish they used?
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Cheers
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Dez :D

[jacko]

See Deja Two in thread piccies, it is a peice made of self same T oak aka Vic Ash, finnished with home made wipe on poly and Trad Wax
Jacko

[DJ’s Timber]

Here is a link to Deja two
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=33198&highlight=deja

Cheers DJ

[elphingirl]

Hi Dez

I finished this coffee table with Organoil Hard Burnishing Oil. It was easy to work with, smells good, and so far the finish has been resistant to marks.
Cheers
http://home.exetel.com.au/elphingirl/coffee_table.jpg

[Flowboy]

Hi Dez,

I like the Organoil products also and have used hard burnishing oil and Interior Finishing oil with success.
With the Minmax Wipe on Poly, one is actually a satin finish and gives quite a nice glow and reflection. Doesn't seem to yellow the timber at all. The gloss is fairly aggressive and really gives a plastic look. In either case I think oil underneath adds character to any timber.
I have attached photos of a bookshelf oiled with Interior finishing oil. It is made of European Oak (sides and top) and American Oak (shelves and back). If you look in Pics under Jarrah Blanket box (still on page 1, I think), the top is coated with satin Wipe on Poly.

Hope this helps, Regards

Rob

[Carry Pine]

I'm so glad Dez raised this question ( the same one I raised recently). Like Dez I would like a finish on Tassie Oak and Vic Ash that doesn't yellow. I've worked with organo oil and it not only yellows but it oranges! I'm trying to attach a picture from elphingirl to compare with some Vic Ash that I am working on at the moment. To me there is heaps of difference.<O:p</O:p
When I described the Ash as being 'grey' some Forumites said I was colourblind but you make the call.<O:p</O:p
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I'm still looking for a finish that doesn't yellow and I'm favouring Cabots clear, satin water based at the moment.
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Carry Pine<O:p</O:p

[Carry Pine]

Please notice the difference in these colours.

Feel free to comment.

Carry Pine

[echnidna]

The only finishes that don't yellow are white shellac and water based clears.
But you will still get a colour change from any of the finishes.

[Mirboo]

Please notice the difference in these colours.

Feel free to comment.

Carry Pine
It is hard to comment on the different colours visible in the pictures because so much is dependant on the lighting that was used when the pictures were taken.

My understanding is that Tassie Oak is a kind of trade name under which 3 different (although similar) species of timber are sold. It is possible that some of the colour differences could be due the particular species that was sold to you as Tassie Oak. Also, even within a species you can see a bit of colour difference.

[Carry Pine]

The only finishes that don't yellow are white shellac and water based clears.
But you will still get a colour change from any of the finishes.

Yes, that's the conclusion I've come to. Thanks Bob.
To Mirboo, everything you say is true about lighting and species but i find that in most finishes there is a yellowing of the timber. This is probably to prevent ultra violet light penetrating and the fact that people found the honey colour attractive. Personally, I don't like the honey colour and hope I've got the solution (!!) now.

Carry Pine

[Ashore]

I did a tea box for SHMBO some time back , put a light stain on the lid and front 7 back as a contrast but left the ends natural , coated in wattyl satin speed clear and got no darkening of the tassi oak
Rgds

[RufflyRustic]

As Echidna said.

My preference is for UBeaut's White Shellac.

Just a note EEE is not a finish, but Trad Wax is, eg, I'll use shellac, buff with eee to cut and do the first polish, then buff with a couple of coats of Trad Wax for a great finish.

cheers
Wendy

[TassieKiwi]

Yep. Blonde/white shellac, with trad wax. Try it! Neil may have further comment.

Den

[Dez]

Thanks everyone for all the comments and the pictures!

I'm a little hesitant about blond/white shellac although I have heard (not seen) that it produces a great clear finish. I haven't had great results from my application technique in the past so it's a bit risky!! I also didn't think it was very hard wearing and marks easily, therefore not a low maintenance finish for a coffee table... I could be wrong?

I've used Wattyl products (estapol) in the past and can't say I've been greatly impressed with the result, hence my search for something that will give a more impressive finish. I'm not sure if you can cut and polish these and what the result would be.

I realise any oil based product will change/darken the timber at least a bit so looking for something that will keep the natural unfinished itmber colour as much as possible.

At this stage, it looks like my original Minwax Wipe on poly in satin (thanks Flow Boy) could be the way to go... I saw a great black heart sassafras entertainment unit in the picture gallery finished in this which is where I got the idea from. I know it's a different timber but it looked like it held is colour really well.

Thanks again for the comments/suggestions and keep them coming if you think there's something better I could use! Still about a week away from crunch time so would appreciate any further comments.

Cheers
Dez

[TassieKiwi]

Maybe add a rag=applied Danish oil (wiping varnish) to the table surface only. You could trial this over the next week. Always good to suss on a decent sixe bit of timber first.

[Flowboy]

Hi Dez,

This Blackwood table was finished with Scandinavian (Danish) Oil and coated with Wipe on Poly Satin.
When I use the WOP, I usually pour it onto the surface at one end and wipe slowly with the grain. You get a good even finish that way.
I guess also remember to sand as fine as you can. If you can get to 2000 grit, finish will be even better in the case of most products.

Regards,

Rob

[Dez]

Flowboy, I'm guessing there was supposed to be a picture attached? Just to clarify the process, do you apply the WOP first and then apply the Scandinavian (Danish) Oil over the top? Is this the same as what TassieKiwi is say as well? Would I use the EEE Ultra Shine as well? As can be seen, I don't know what the hell I'm doing!!! It would be great to see pictures if you have any too!

I'm thinking I'll get the Minwax WOP satin and do a trial, maybe some danish oil and EEE as well.

Cheers guys

Dez

[Flowboy]

Hi Dez,

Sorry about that, See my response under Min-Max-minor in the finishing thread
Use the Oil (Danish or whatever first, wipe in thoroughly then wipe off the excess. Add the wipe on poly last of all, allow it to dry, sand and add another coat. If you feel you need to add more, wait till the second coat dries, sand and add again. Usually two caots is fine. Just be sure you get an even coat. You may want to look at the table down low at one end and look for streaks.
I think Tassie KiWi was suggesting that you could use a cloth dampened with Danish oil and gently rub the timber to accentuate only the grain. Be sure to wipe off any extra with a dry cloth.
I think you will find the Satin WOP gives you what you want.
Hope this helps

Regards

Rob

[Dez]

Thanks for all your advice Flowboy and everyone.

I'll do a trial now on scrap and post the results here.

Cheers
Dez

[Flowboy]

Hi Dez,

Couple of things I remembered.
What will you be sanding with and how fine will the last grit be?
If you haven't got a sander, I would suggest a Random Orbital jobbie, gives smooth clean results with little if any residual scrathing from the previous grit. Bunnies have them at reasonable price for a 125mm and if you go ahead with the rest of the furniture, you'll find it priceless.
If you have a finishing sander, be sure to sand the scratches from the previous grit before proceeding. I would suggest the following sequence. 80g, 120g, 180g, 240g, 400g then 600g, 1200g and 1500g. The timber will feel like glass and your final finish will be brilliant.

Regards

Rob

[Wongo]

Tas Oak with wipe on poly.

[Flowboy]

Beautiful piece Wongo.
Hope you agreed with my sanding regimen?

Rob

[Neil Hodge]

Dez, I think Carry Pine is on the right track. In my experience just about any oil product will yellow and darken the timber over time. this may take a number of years, but it seems to happen. I believe that a water based Poly will not do this, don't know what the finish is like though.

[jacko]

Flowboy, re sanding regimen. Following comments:
1) Use of a cabinet scraper can avoid the need for 80/120/180 at least.
2) The final grit size should be determined by the hardness/density of the timber. IMHO there is little point in taking Tassie Oak past 600 grit. Certainly not before adding a harder layer like poly. On the other hand something like Jarrah will benifet from 1200, and Ebony can go to 1500. These are my thoughts and all are welcome to disagree as usual.
Jacko

[Dez]

G'day all

Flowboy, just came in from the shed and have started sanding a few pieces before I start constructing the base frame. I do have an orbital sander and my hand is still tingling from about one straight hour at it!
Thanks for your sanding advice. My plan was to go to about 400g but I think I'll up it to at least 600 - 800 now and try for a better finish. I am sanding to 120g at the moment and will step it up once I've fully constructed it.

Another question too: I was planning to use sanding sealer as well. Is this a good idea? Some other product available better to help smooth things out?

Neil, yeah it appears the consensus is oil will yellow and realistically I'm sure what I'm making will yellow over time to a degree. I guess if it yellows too much I'll need to make a new set, maybe Tassie Blackwood this time!!

Wongo, thanks for that pic mate, beautiful piece, love the dovetails. That finish is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for so you've really helped to confirm the WOP decision.

Went fishing last night and didn't get in til early this morning so behind schedule now, as only spent 1 hour this arvo sanding. I'll definately post a pic or two when it's finished.

Thanks again, cheers
Dez

[Flowboy]

Hi Dez,

Glad to be of help. Sanding Sealer is something I have in the Workshop, but have not used. There seems to be some debate over its use, so I'll leave it to those with much more experience than I answer your question.

BTW: Jarrah looks really good under three coats of satin WOP with 1500 grit sanding in between.

Regards

Rob

[Dez]

G'day again

Thought I'd add a pic of where I'm up to. Actually, this was this morning, have progressed a little since then. I now have the Minwax WOP and have applied first coat to the trial piece. Will update soon

Cheers
Dez

[Spreyton22]

My understanding is that Tassie Oak is a kind of trade name under which 3 different (although similar) species of timber are sold. It is possible that some of the colour differences could be due the particular species that was sold to you as Tassie Oak. Also, even within a species you can see a bit of colour difference.

Hi everyone- my first post :) I'm from Tassie, and our local mechants here have mentioned that Tassie Oak could be any one of dozens of species.
And the colours can be very variable.

[Flowboy]

Hi Dez,

Looking good, but hard to tell on such beautifully matched and pale Tas Oak.
How does it look to you. Was the surface supersmooth at 600 grit?

And I've got to ask, how did your workshop get so clean??:eek: :D

Regards

Rob

[Dez]

G'day Rob
I decided to go to 800g and I think this is pretty much as good as it'll get. The trial piece with the WOP has turned out great, even without the polish at this stage, it's definately a goer!

Mate, I've been following your WIP of redgum chairs (looking great) and have seen the pictures of your workshop too... looks like neither of us are scared of a little sawdust getting in the way!!!:D

And welcome aboard Spreyton!

Cheers
Dez

[Dez]

Alrighty then... All finished and here it is. The wife is very happy and I will be moving on to the entertainment unit now!

The WOP and EEE produced the exact finish I was after so very happy and will use this with the other lounge room pieces too. Thanks again to all those who helped with advice here.

Interesting little point, both pics obviously the same table, same camera, but I took the 'yellow' looking pic at night using the flash. The other pic represents the actual colour of the table but was taken on a sunny day without a flash. Just shows how difficult it can be to judge a finish by a picture.

Cheers
Dez

[Lignum]

Hi Dez

I finished this coffee table with Organoil Hard Burnishing Oil. It was easy to work with, smells good, and so far the finish has been resistant to marks.
Cheers
http://home.exetel.com.au/elphingirl/coffee_table.jpg

Elphing i just come across this thread and this is an amazing looking coffee table:D Please show and tell more:D :D :D

[Flowboy]

Great stuff Dez, go to it m'man.

Regards,

Rob

[Don Nethercott]

I know you are finished now and it looks great, but I found your first choice closest to what I have used.

I used Feast Watson Floorseal on a blue gum coffee table I built from scratch and on a silky oak dining table I restored.

That's all I used and the finish on both is great. I wanted a more matt finish on the coffee table so only sanded to 800, but wanted a high gloss on the dining table to sanded to 1200.

By sanded I went through 100, 120, 150, 180, 240, 360 with ordinary type sandpaper, then brushed on the FW floorseal and sanded with 400 w&d. When dry used 600 w&d dipped in FWF and sanded. Repeated every couple of days with 800 & 1200 with silky oak.

The finish (on the coffee table) is standing up to tea cups and spilt food and my feet when I get lazy.

The magic ingredient is Tung oil. Chinese furniture thousands of years old has been found in good condition oiled with tung oil. I think english furniture done with linseed is in similar good condition. Oils from the human body actually enhance the finish on timber finished with linseed or tung.

Old furniture originally finished with Shellac has been found to have little or no shellac left on it, it has been slowly removed by the maids while polishing, and the finish they now have is the polish they used.

The trouble with poly finishes it that it looks best on the day it was done, then slowly deteriorates. It is also difficult to repair, whereas with oils a damaged area can "easily" be sanded and reoiled.

Don

[elphingirl]

Thanks Lignum!
The tables (four pieces) were constructed from laminated Tas Oak from Matthews timber in Melbourne. I think the original dimensions were something like 290 x 30. The stuff weighs a tonne, and after loading up the car with 15lm I got a flat tire and had to unload it again (on the street), get the tire out and load it up all over again.

The table is designed so that while the finish heights are different (pretty much because I didn't think I could get all four the same), the bottom of the rails are all the same. Some of the pieces were very hard to clamp, and ended up with 16 clamps on them. I was lucky enough to do this as part of a course, and had a proper workshop to build in.

We've been using them for a couple of years now, and they are wearing well; very hard (for Tas Oak), and the oil finish surprisingly resistant to marks. Because I used biscuit mitre joins though and only a sandpaper arris (a factor of time available) I've had some very small breaks on the mitre edges.

Cheers
Elphingirl

[Lignum]

The stuff weighs a tonne, and after loading up the car with 15lm I got a flat tire and had to unload it again (on the street), get the tire out and load it up all over again.



Thats funny:D Well not at the time i bet;) . It would be nice to put this coffee table set-up over in the pics section and maybe show us some other pics of it seperated a bit. It realy dose look fantastic. What other goodies are you hiding from us;) :) More pics:D And what was the course? Box Hill, RMIT maybe, do tell

[tashammer]

There are a lot more than 3 species that are marketed under the name Tassie Oak and the colour ranges are huge. More variations are possible depending on what grade you buy, from "select" down to "utility". The more interesting stuff is often rejected as they can't seem to cope with too much figure, burl etc. If you can, go down to the sawmill and ask them for the rejects. Try out some samples of what ever finish you are thinking about on some off cuts - it's better to spring for the cost of a small tin than bugger up the whole project. Also try to keep them in whatever place in the house you will have the finished product, e.g. if it is under or by a window, near a heater etc.