Speeding fine

[Rossluck]

Last week I was booked for speeding for the first time since I was an idiot hoon in my teen years. Initially I took it well, knowing as we all do that technically we could be pinged every time we drive. But when I returned to the scene of the crime and saw the slimy trap that had been set I became increasingly annoyed.

Basically, a long and highway quality road with an 80km limit rounded a bend where a roadworks sign quite suddenly reduced it to 60km. My truck is only small, but even at 4.5 tonnes loaded you tend when driving to allow the exhaust brakes to slow it from 80km to 60km.

You've guessed the rest. The speed gun was set to catch drivers in the first 100 metres or so of the 60 zone. I was booked for doing 81 kph, and was fined $250.00 and lost some points (don't know how many).

I should quickly add that there were NO roadworks or any sign of roadworkers, I haven't seen roadworks there ever, and it was 7:00 AM and little traffic.

This happens all of the time, as we all know, but it is revenue collecting like this that is surely what gives the traffic police such a bad name. If the trap had been just 200 metre further on, so that people had a chance to adjust, then it'd be a fair cop (sorry), but to catch people as they slow is just a quick way of reaching the daily "expectation" tally - a pat on the back for the officer, and the books brought up to date.

I can imagine the "technical" replies from police officers who participate in this forum. Don't waste your time, these traps stink.:mad:

[bitingmidge]

I'm not a police officer.

I don't always obey speed limits, in fact where I deem it safe to do so I rarely do. No I don't flog everywhere at 100 mph, but 10% on a long highway journey will get me there an hour or even two earlier, or more realistically get me there at the same time, with an hour or two break on the way.

I have a firmly held belief that no matter how well hidden the officer, no matter how unfair the "trap", if you didn't see it coming, you weren't alert enough to be doing the speed you were. (The exception being the cameras disguised as wheelie bins!)

What if the radar chap was a child on a tricycle?

Yep, I'd be a little angry for being caught too. Angry at myself.

I seem to get sprung every five or six years, the last time was on a four lane highway, 80 metres from a 110 zone and I was idly accelerating into the zone. Got busted doing 111. Unfair? Only because I was caught, it was me breaking the law not the copper.

Wouldn't you think they'd stop "trapping" all of us safe drivers and concentrate on the people that are going to have an accident! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I'm a bit curious though, (and I know the roadworks thing is a revenue raiser), what makes you think that an 80 sign means "80 in 100 metres or so", and what about the bloke behind you who took 150 metres to slow down?? Where is the limit drawn?

I'm a bit curious about how good your brakes are though, in 100 metres or so, you seemed to have slowed from 80 kph to 81kph??

Sorry, cop it sweet!


P
;)

[dazzler]

Last week I was booked for speeding for the first time since I was an idiot hoon in my teen years. Initially I took it well, knowing as we all do that technically we could be pinged every time we drive. But when I returned to the scene of the crime and saw the slimy trap that had been set I became increasingly annoyed.

Basically, a long and highway quality road with an 80km limit rounded a bend where a roadworks sign quite suddenly reduced it to 60km. My truck is only small, but even at 4.5 tonnes loaded you tend when driving to allow the exhaust brakes to slow it from 80km to 60km.

You've guessed the rest. The speed gun was set to catch drivers in the first 100 metres or so of the 60 zone. I was booked for doing 81 kph, and was fined $250.00 and lost some points (don't know how many).

I should quickly add that there were NO roadworks or any sign of roadworkers, I haven't seen roadworks there ever, and it was 7:00 AM and little traffic.

This happens all of the time, as we all know, but it is revenue collecting like this that is surely what gives the traffic police such a bad name. If the trap had been just 200 metre further on, so that people had a chance to adjust, then it'd be a fair cop (sorry), but to catch people as they slow is just a quick way of reaching the daily "expectation" tally - a pat on the back for the officer, and the books brought up to date.

I can imagine the "technical" replies from police officers who participate in this forum. Don't waste your time, these traps stink.:mad:

yep wont try to justify it.......learn to drive or open your eyes:rolleyes:

[martrix]

May be wrong, but I think I recall a story here in Victoria not too long ago about a ship load of people being booked for the same thing (speeding in a restricted roadworks zone).

From what I remember, they all got off because by law the have to have a sign stating that there is a speed camera operating in the temporarily speed reduced zone?...which of course they didn't..

[dazzler]

Ahhh stuff it, I will waste some breath.

We have a court system. You can plead not guilty if you are innocent.

If the police were not acting in accordance with the operating system, the standard operating procedures for the instrument that they were using, then they have not complied and the matter will be withdrawn.

Your post is so typical of how people respond to being booked. At first they accept it, why, cause they know they were doing wrong. Then they sit down and go over and over it in there head until they was wronged.

So lets have a look at your argument

Basically, a long and highway quality road with an 80km limit rounded a bend where a roadworks sign quite suddenly reduced it to 60km. My truck is only small, but even at 4.5 tonnes loaded you tend when driving to allow the exhaust brakes to slow it from 80km to 60km.

So you come around a corner on a highway quality road and see a 60 sign and use your exhaust brakes to slow down. In a truck. You saw the sign but decided not to use the normal brake but let the exhaust brakes slow you slowly down.

And what is it, a highway or some mountain switchback in france. Long highways dont suddenly have corners so tight that you cant see 100m in front.

You've guessed the rest. The speed gun was set to catch drivers in the first 100 metres or so of the 60 zone. I was booked for doing 81 kph

So the cop was using a laser or radar. They dont set them they decide for themself what speed to stop at. Even if they were to set it 20k over is very reasonable.

I should quickly add that there were NO roadworks or any sign of roadworkers, I haven't seen roadworks there ever, and it was 7:00 AM and little traffic.

Do you think maybe at 7am they were setting up, getting ready for work. You saw the sign, end of story.

This happens all of the time, as we all know, but it is revenue collecting like this that is surely what gives the traffic police such a bad name. If the trap had been just 200 metre further on, so that people had a chance to adjust, then it'd be a fair cop (sorry), but to catch people as they slow is just a quick way of reaching the daily "expectation" tally - a pat on the back for the officer, and the books brought up to date.

When I was doing traffic work the expectation was that you would issue at least 6 infringements or cautions per day. Six, I could find six morons in half an hour! The tally is crap. Everyone who gets booked thinks they are part of a tally, revenue collecting scheme.

Cops are given a role to reduce injury on our roads. They are given cars and bikes and radars and all sorts of things to do it. Be great to end the shift and the boss says

"what did you do today constable?"
"nothin boss! nothin at all!"

So summing up, your a professional driver in a 4.5 t truck. You come round a bend and see a 60 sign. How far from it are you before you see it? 100m, 75m, 50m, 30m 20m ? Lets say 50m if you are particularly blind.

Lets say the cop is checking you, against guidelines, as you cross the 60 sign. You cant even reduce your speed to less than the original speed limit in that 50m. Your still exceeding the 80 when youve entered it?

So money where your mouth is. If what you say is true then plead not guilty and put the facts before the court. Let the magistrate determine the facts. Then come back and tell us how you went.:D

Ill save my breath for explaining the methods of having a caution issued instead.;)

gasps for breath

dazzler

[echnidna]

I sympathise with Rossluck as a sign should have also been placed before the bend so it could have been seen from a distance.

But the fact is there are a lot more vehicles on the road nowadays than there were 40 years ago yet the road toll is actually considerably lower.

So stricter enforcement of the road laws is actually saving lives

[bitingmidge]

So stricter enforcement of the road laws is actually saving lives
You don't think that "shatterproof" glass, side impact protection, seat belts, airbags, crumplezones, better tyres, better suspenson, better brakes, ABS, SIPS, stability control, hot mix bitumen, divided roads, dual lane highways and a myriad other things contribute?

40 years ago cars were dangerous things at much more than 100kph on wide aircraft runways. Now some cars can be safely driven at 250kph (no I don't mean on a typical highway), but the built in dynamic safety is enormous.

Not many roads here are capable of carrying cars at high speed, however suburban speed limits of 50 are now being considered for lowering to 40kph, I guess the next thing is having a bloke with a red flag and a bell walking in front of us as we drive.

P
:cool:

[echnidna]

40 years or so ago I can remember thumping down Dandenong Road, just east of north road, doing 115mph in my 34 Ford and a cortina went past me like I was tied to the fence.

big v8 4speed triple carbs light flywhell, and done by a cortina:eek:

nuff to put a man off hot rods.

[bitingmidge]

I used to do the same to the likes of you, in a Peugeot 404! :D

Only I could stop!

P
:cool: :cool: :cool:

[echnidna]

whaddya wanna stop for?:cool:

[Rossluck]

I think some of the responses have tended towards the obvious, Ned Flanders school of driving brilliance and compliance. What I was getting at was this: the area in which the police set the trap is bushland, with no houses, no roadworks, no setting up, no children on bikes, just two police officers hidden in the bush with an electronic gadget and the ambition to rise through the ranks.

I drove into this trap with an impeccable record of thousands and thousands of kilometers driving, no accidents (ever), and no speeding fines for 30 years (just a “no seatbelt” 15 years ago). I rounded a corner, MY EYES WERE OPEN, I saw the situation, but not the trap, and decided to let the truck wind down to the speed limit via the exhaust brakes so that equilibrium could be maintained (corner + momentum + load = unstable). But the trap was set in such a way that I was caught during the wind down.
<O:p
I accept it, I can afford the fine without crying, I was polite to the police officer. I’ve been around enough to know that I breach traffic regulations every day (it’s impossible not to, no matter how much of a Ned Flanders you are), and I accept the fine on that basis.
<O:p
But what I was getting at was that this type of trap is what gives the police a bad name. I have a friend who’s a policeman, and while he quite rightly defends the police (who have to scrape people off the road after accidents), he agrees that “we know all the good spots”, and that “if ever the police department ever offers franchises for traffic fines” he’ll be the first to invest.
<O:p
The simple alternative to the trap that was set for me would have been to station the radar 200 metres up the road to catch the HUNDREDS of people who dangerously ignore roadworks speeding zones and sit on 80 through them, not truck drivers that have assessed the situation and have it under control and are seeking to comply as safely as possible.

[Dan_574]

as one of those trying to rise through the ranks ross, what a load of crap. You did the wrong thing and got caught accept. I agree 100% with dazzler.

[Rossluck]

as one of those trying to rise through the ranks ross, what a load of crap. You did the wrong thing and got caught accept. I agree 100% with dazzler.

As I expected, Sarge.

[Grunt]

You don't think that "shatterproof" glass, side impact protection, seat belts, airbags, crumplezones, better tyres, better suspenson, better brakes, ABS, SIPS, stability control, hot mix bitumen, divided roads, dual lane highways and a myriad other things contribute?


Also, it a big way, is the advances in trauma medicine.

[echnidna]

Then again, some of the ones who don't die might be better off dead.
There was a prang outside here between a car & a tree about a month ago.
None of the survivors will probably ever lead a normal life again.
One even left bits of his brain on the dashboard.
The causes (my observations only)
speed
possibly oncoming traffic going the opposite direction
slippery road,
steep roadside verges (once the left wheels got over a foot from the bitumen the car couldn't get back on the pavement easily.

The steel sides you see along the sides of some roads probably would have totally prevented such serious injuries.

[Sturdee]

I can imagine the "technical" replies from police officers who participate in this forum. Don't waste your time, these traps stink.:mad:

What a load of rubbish. You were driving along and saw a sign reducing the speed limit from 80 to 60.

Rather than reducing your speed using your brakes you must have increased your speed to get pinged at 81 for they normally allow about 10 % margin. So even if there was no speed reduction down to 60 you would still get pinged.:mad:

In any case there are no speed traps nor are they revenue raising devices but it is a voluntary taxing system. Drive within the speed limits and there is no problem. I'm not a policeman but I'm glad they caught a driver like you who seem to think that the law doesn't apply to you.

Stop your whinging and pay up.

Peter.

[rrich]

Here in the States we call it revenue.

[dazzler]

Here in the States we call it revenue.

How many died in the US last year? 20000?

[HJ0]

Most of you have prob seen it before.

http://www.roadsense.com.au/



HJ0 Cheers

[Rossluck]

What’s really annoying about some of the more red necky responses from people in this thread is that, not only have you climbed too quickly to peer down from the lofty heights of high moral horses, you have completely misread what I’m saying. It’s not about ME getting fined. If you read more carefully you’ll see that my hand is firmly up, that I’ve accepted the fine, I’ve paid it, I was polite, and I know that every day I gamble with the law, and this time I lost. If you READ my previous posts in this thread you’ll discover this to be the case.

Moreover, I am not anti police. My step son is a police officer. I have a friend who is a police officer. I was appalled when an officer was recently attacked on the Gold Coast while performing his duty.
<O:p
My point is: sometimes the police set a trap that is unfair. These traps are easy to identify because there is usually a line of criminal car drivers waiting to be processed. Sometimes the officers find such a good fishing spot that they can pull cars in as fast as they can re-bait. It is fishing spots such as these that give the police a bad name, and attract the “revenue collecting” tag. If this doesn’t happen in VIC, good, but it happens here. You can pull out the technical manual on me, and you’ll be right, but so boring.

[dazzler]

Most of you have prob seen it before.

http://www.roadsense.com.au/



HJ0 Cheers

Better get that over to Monash University quick smart....problems solved:rolleyes:

[Iain]

Police don't operate speed cameras in Victoria.

[echnidna]

What sort of income does a speed camera operator get Iain?

[HJ0]

Police don't operate speed cameras in Victoria.


They must have gotten lazy, since I was last in vic.:rolleyes:

[ozwinner]

What if the radar chap was a child on a tricycle?



Funny bugger, kids dont ride bikes anymore thats why the kids are all so freakin BIG.

Al :p

[HJ0]

Big Kids Do.:eek:




HJ0 Cheers

[Daddles]

When speed cameras were first introduced, a motorcycle magazine published the photo from one. It showed one of their road testers exceeding the speed limit. The funny thing was, he was on his back sliding along next to the bike :eek:

The story was, he saw the camera, grabbed the brakes, locked it up and dropped the test bike. Of course, the editor then chose to ask why he was speeding, why he was so clumsy with the brakes as to lock everything up, and why couldn't he have done it on his own bike instead of a test machine. No answers were offered :D

Richard

[martrix]

"Speed Camera Policy and Operations Manual"


"CAMERAS are not to be set up on bends.
OPERATORS must not camouflage or disguise the cameras in a way that could lead to a public perception of "sly operations".
CAMERAS can be used on a downhill road only if the road has a significant history of speed-related accidents.
TOLERANCE levels, where motorists can travel over the speed limit without being fined, are flexible.
POLICE book so many people to reinforce the message that it is not worth the risk to speed.
THE locations of fixed speed cameras are chosen to maximise the number of people who can be caught speeding.
CAMERAS must not be set up within 200m of a change to the speed zone.
CAMERAS can be used within 200m of a change to the zone in a children's crossing area or a school zone with prior approval of senior police."


If you are bored, read more (http://www.roadsense.com.au/news.html)

[Clinton1]

How is it a speed trap?
:confused:

[macca2]

You were speeding.
You broke the law.
If you dont speed you dont care where they hide the cameras
Speeding is dangerous to other road users and to pedestrians.
PAY THE FINE.

Macca

[Iain]

What sort of income does a speed camera operator get Iain?
I think it is Tennex (sp) who operate the camera's, income, no idea but would guess $40k plus.

[Bodgy]

I think Kenmill's behind it all.

[craigb]

I think Kenmill's behind it all.

Before your time Bodg surely.

[scooter]

Before your time Bodg surely.

Length of service nazi, craig? :p

[Doughboy]

Yeah I say hide the cameras and stop the radio telling all the folks where the kodak moments are..

Dont like paying the fine??? Dont speed!!

It is not revenue raising it is called enforcing the law.....

Just my thoughts

Pete

[craigb]

Length of service nazi, craig? :p

Who, moi? :p

[craigb]

I think that what Rossluck is saying is just that the cops can be very cynical about where they put their traps.

Like he's said himself, he was speeding, he's copped it sweet and paid the fine. He's just having a whinge.

I think we've all seen the cops place their traps in areas where it's easy to make a booking whilst true black spots go un-policed.


Craig (who was last booked in 1981. Probably have tempted fate now and will be booked tomorrow:rolleyes: )

[Guy]

I want the gov to put one of those double wammy cameras ( speed and red light) outside my place, it sounds like a bleeding race track at night. Since i have lived there for the past 6 years there have been 12 killed on the this stretch of road.
In that time i have not seen a camera car but only the occasional unmarked pursuit vechile.
It does not even get a mention on the camera location list fromthe Gov. I have seen one parked down Tooronga Road but never dandenong road.
It would pay for the install in a few days.

[Harry72]

I got a nice speeding fine once(my only offence ever...), was holidaying in banana land driving along the new Bicentennial hyway on a experimental stretch of 110kmh(Im from SA so Im use to it)cruising along at the limit using cruise control we decided we needed a drink so we pulled off the hyway into a servo which was on the old road, the driveways(in and out)were about 100m long.
So I send the SWMBO into the shop while I kept the motor running with the aircon flat out... took off hit resume on the cruise just as I left the driveway got to 110km FLASH... done for 111 in a 100 zone... the 100kmh sign was inbetween the driveways of the servo!

[Dan_574]

I know here in Vic there is no quota that we have to meet, no riseing through the ranks for getting lots of tickets.

The number of traffic coppers on the road compared to drivers is quite small so you have a high chance of getting off.

We sit in spots where people speed, thats our job. We dont set the speeds we only enforce them. If you dont want to cop a fine dont speed that middle peddle works wonders.

I have to disagree with one thing midge sitting in roadworks zones is not a revenue raiser, the amount of complaints we receive from road workers is phenomonal. Stand close to the road when a car gos past, even at 40 is intimidating let alone having them go past you in excess of 60.

On a side note, Ive just finished 2 nights of an operation where we got to use the new vehicle impoundment laws, I must admit a very good law. 14 cars seized for 48hours, most for speeding by 45 or more, 130 in a 60, 172 in a 100. Lets see if it changes these young kids behaviour so they dont wrap themselves round a pole, I suppose time will tell.

[Guy]

I have to disagree with one thing midge sitting in roadworks zones is not a revenue raiser, the amount of complaints we receive from road workers is phenomonal. Stand close to the road when a car gos past, even at 40 is intimidating let alone having them go past you in excess of 60.


I agree with roadwork speed limits, but i disagree with police or Tenix standing there on weekends and nights booking people when there is no one there working.
A lot of times the signs go up before the road works start and are still there months after they have packed up and gone.
I do remember something about this some time back where someone got booked and the courts threw it out. But our wonderful dictorship we have running this state change the law.

But im sure if you have the time and want to dispute your fines there are piles of books in the state libaries with all the old english laws which most have never been repelled.

[Exador]

My worst-ever speed trap experience was on the Eyre Hwy, when I was working on a section at fraser range, about 110kmeast of Norseman. The worksite was about 10km from end to end and, as I was testing all the work, I knew precisely where each bit was being done. Soooo, I'm tooling along at 110, heading for the nearest area of work at the other end of the job, when who should pop up but Sergeant Plod, sitting with his little radar gun at a 40km/h workzone 8km from the nearest actual activity and which was actually due to be taken down that day, because the job was completed in that area. There were at least 5 other 40km/h zones before the active work area was reached, but he chose that one, knowing full well that people would have been travelling for several hundred kms at 110 and he'd get the best return.

it wasn't the $350 fine or the 6 points that bothered me, it was the fatarse loser copper's attitude of "if you want to argue about it, I'll arrest you and you can leace your car here and come into Norseman with us", when I pointed out the obvious facts. I have a lot of time for coppers in general, but some simply shouldn't be allowed out in public. I suspect he wasn't all that pleased when I pointed out that I had no intention of arguing with someone whose professional record after years of service fitted him for a job in Norseman - ar$ehole.

[Exador]

We sit in spots where people speed, thats our job. We dont set the speeds we only enforce them. If you dont want to cop a fine dont speed that middle peddle works wonders.

I have to disagree with one thing midge sitting in roadworks zones is not a revenue raiser, the amount of complaints we receive from road workers is phenomonal. Stand close to the road when a car gos past, even at 40 is intimidating let alone having them go past you in excess of 60.



I have no objection to the coppers operating speed detectors - they save a lot of lives. I'm all in favour of work zones too, having been on a site in which a worker was killed by a car after the airblast from a speeding truck knocked the guy off balance into the path of the car. Sadly, however, some people are just lazy, including coppers and it's those lazy ones that give the rest a bad name.

I remember years ago when wayne Goss came to power in Qld, he made a promise to abolish speed "traps", in which the radar is placed at the bottom of a downhill, or just around a blind corner or at the change of speed zones, which used to be commonplace here in Qld pre-fitzgerald inquiry. I must say, however, that I've noticed a major resurgence in that sort of activity over the past couple of years.

[Exador]

And what is it, a highway or some mountain switchback in france. Long highways dont suddenly have corners so tight that you cant see 100m in front.



You obviously haven't done much driving...

[himzol]

I wasn't going to wade into this debate but this is one of those arguments that bobbs it's head up around here every now and then.
What people don't seem to be able to come to grips with is that speed limits are just that - limits. So in a say 60 zone you can drive UP TO 60km/h anything over that is speeding and punishable by law.
However most people assume that this is the speed you should be travelling at along this strech of road (and yes I do it as well).

And I'm sure sombody has already said it : "It's only a speed trap if your speeding"

BTW my last speeding fine was in 1984, in a Cortina (sorry BoB)

Now let's all use those tools, build a bridge and get over it.

H.

[bitingmidge]

I have to disagree with one thing midge sitting in roadworks zones is not a revenue raiser, the amount of complaints we receive from road workers is phenomonal. Stand close to the road when a car gos past, even at 40 is intimidating let alone having them go past you in excess of 60.

Let me clarify the "revenue raiser" comment:

I was specifically referring to areas on highways (and the Bruce Highway between Brisbane and Caboolture has a beauty at the moment) where the speed limit has been reduced permanently for five or six kilometres, despite the fact that work only happens eight hours per day, five days per week.

How hard would it be to stick a bag over the signs? Easier than to set up a speed camera!

Last week we encountered three on the highway further north that were posted as "Roadworks" and 80 k, but had no works and no end speed limit sign. On Thursday afternoon, there were five areas between Gympie and Miriamvale slowing traffic to as little as 40kph, unmanned and no work. Currently there are sections of that road with a completed extra lane that could be used, but it's easier to keep it as a construction area it would seem (with those big radar warning signs and the shady parking for the van!)

No speed camera, so no revenue, but also the guys behind me who had all been travelling at ninety-something when I passed them, got mighty grumpy at me for slowing to almost the limit!

This may not happen in other states, but it's a regular thing in Qld, hence the only bit of sympathy for Rossluck!

Cheers,

P
:D

[Dan_574]

well said exador I agree totally there are some useful coppers and I work with a few, they do set up in easy spots, but there arguement is that the person driving sets the outcome, like I said the brake does wonders.

I sit at the bottom of hills but like alot of traffic coppers I give people 20ks leeway, its amazing how many people I let off at the 18 or 19 over mark. Alot of hills if you start at the top and dont accelerate you will not go over the speed limit by more than 10 or 15 ks. Some spots I only take loss of licence speeds which is 25ks or more over.

[echnidna]

On a side note, Ive just finished 2 nights of an operation where we got to use the new vehicle impoundment laws, I must admit a very good law. 14 cars seized for 48hours, most for speeding by 45 or more, 130 in a 60, 172 in a 100. Lets see if it changes these young kids behaviour so they dont wrap themselves round a pole, I suppose time will tell.

That sounds like a good policy except what is the situation if the offending driver is using someone else's car. Does the good samaritan lose their wheels?

[Dan_574]

I agree midge I wasnt having a go, there are some that shouldnt be worked but alot have the low speed limit signs all the time because of a number of reasons no emegency lane, no lines, gravely surface, litigation.

What annoys me is when people put us and cameras in the same boat, we use lasers where the cameras are radars, big difference, I agree that our cameras down here should be used better and we should have ones like in NSW where they are sign posted and are set up permanently at black spots.

We are there trying to catch people who are doing big speeds like the 30 or 40 over, the ones that will you or your wife and kids, but people still flash their headlights to warn others that a police car is there, I just hope it not there loved one I have to go and see splattered inside a car.

[dazzler]

just had to jump back in.

Firstly I dont like speed cameras, person to person policing is much better and affords the ability to catch cancelled drivers, caution those with good records and even boost the QUOTA with mutliple tickets;). Plus it generally serves a better outcome to wheel around behind said speedster and follow for a few k's while SWMBO berates the driver with "I told you so's" and then stopping them and doing a licence check and a caution.

But, the philosophy of speed cameras is sound. That being to decrease the incidence of speeding and compliance with speed restrictions. The idea being that you will never know where one is so wont take the chance. The anticipated outcome being that the median speed of all traffic on that section of road being within guidelines.

This also is to take away the drivers own initiative, good or bad, of setting a limit they are comfortable with that may be outside what the road engineers consider safe.

Thus when bitingmidge sees the camera in a roadworks when no roadworks are currently being undertaken has nothing to do with that fact but the fact that there was a sign dictating the speed cars should be travelling at. Unfair at a personal level, reasonable when viewed within the initiative, that being that if I exceed the posted limit then I may get caught, even when I think the odds are in my favour.

Exceeding the speed limit is generally not unsafe within itself and its here that people personalise the issue of getting caught. You have not been charged with 'dangerous driving', a completely different charge, but non compliance with a prescribed limit. You might not agree with the limit but have no power to change it so you choose to risk being caught.

In my time in traffic enforcement only about 10% perhaps would claim they did not see a sign or were not aware of the speed change. Every time I would suggest they retrace that part of the journey and if they honestly couldnt see the signs to come back and we will do it together and if they were right I would withdraw it. Only taken up once and I was at fault (limit had been raised while i was on holidays:p )

happy driving

[Iain]

One positive with a speed camera is that large breasted, short skirted pouting blondes get tickets too:p

[martrix]

Just heard some debate on 3AW regarding speed cameras and road safety.
I think it was 1970 or 1980, cannot remember, but there were 1074 people killed on Victorian roads alone in one year:eek: !

Those were the days people were driving steel tanks like HQ's and XY'shttp://www.ubeaut.biz/chev.gif, and when you would drive home blind drunkhttp://www.ubeaut.biz/drunk2.gif
from the pub without the blink of an eye....tsk, tskhttp://www.ubeaut.biz/nono.gif.


....................................................http://www.ubeaut.biz/cop.gif...........................

[Sturdee]

Just heard some debate on 3AW regarding speed cameras and road safety.
I think it was 1970 or 1980, cannot remember, but there were 1074 people killed on Victorian roads alone in one year:eek: !.

It think that was 1974 and the road toll was 1066. The Herald Sun started the campaign to reduce the road toll with the slogan " Drive to stay alive in 1975 ". That was so succesfull that it became the fore runner of the TAC road safety campaigns.

For a number of years prior to that it was the norm that over a thousand Victorians got killed on the roads and there were about half the drivers that are on the roads now.

It was the period that seat belts use was not compulsory (most cars didn't have them), there were no speed cameras (the cops had to follow you for a while to clock you), no .05 law (the cops had to pull you over and make you walk a line to see if you were drunk) and the roads were badly designed and built.

That were the alledged "good old days" where a driver could do what they liked and get away with it but the death toll mounted up every year.

I prefer the current system and have an even chance of staying alive.


Peter.

[Auld Bassoon]

Only taken up once and I was at fault (limit had been raised while i was on holidays:p )

happy driving

Hi Dazzler,

A couple of years ago in Canberra I had a similar experience wherein I was stopped by a Traffic cop and informed that I was travelling at 75 or so in a 60 zone. I politely disputed that I was speeding as the limit had been raised a week or so earlier to 80 (one of the many dual carriageways there in PoliCity).

The officer didn't believe me, so I invited him to walk back a couple of hundred meters to an intersection where the '80' sign was. When we got there, he looked at it, and then muttered something about "well, they could have told us". Anyway, he was quite amused by it and scrapped the ticket.

Cheers!

[Clinton1]

Ross,
If its your first ticket in a few years, why not ask them to let you off, or at least let you pay the fine and retain your points?
This is an option, conditions vary between the states, but usually it is available for drivers with a good record.
Victoria has a "Penalty Review Board", I'm sure that QLD has something similiar.

[silentC]

I know that every day I gamble with the law
Of everything that has been said, this is the bit that worries me the most. Kinda sums up my impression of most 'professional drivers'. I used to drive up and down the Hume/Federal highway a lot. Used to see lots of 'gambling'.

My old man is always on about speed traps and revenue raising. Fact is you are supposed to be doing 60 when you get to the sign, not 100 metres after it. Good on 'em for pinging you, should happen more often.

My favourite here is the tourists who drive around at 70km everywhere, in the 100km zones, in the 80km zones and through town! I'd love to see some of them get pinged too.

[Iain]

On the multi lane highways and freeways it is an offence to travel at under 80kph in a 100kph zone, in any other than the left lane unless overtaking (Vic).
Problem is I have never seen it enforced and there is always someone willing to hold everyone up.

[bitingmidge]

One positive with a speed camera is that large breasted, short skirted pouting blondes get tickets too:p

I haven't yet!

P
:o :o :o

[Daddles]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER- 1px inset; BORDER- 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Iain
One positive with a speed camera is that large breasted, short skirted pouting blondes get tickets too:p
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I haven't yet!

P
:o :o :o

Midge, the 'breast' he's talking about is about a foot ABOVE your belly button, not that bulge containing your belly button. And as for the short skirt, well, a lady your age should know better, but if you've got the legs to carry it off ...

Richard

[HappyHammer]

Wow I had no idea there were so many members of this board that never speed, such angels, they must be the ones who drive in the middle lane on three lane highways with no-one on their left.:eek: :D

HH.

[bitingmidge]

Wow I had no idea there were so many members of this board that never speed, such angels, they must be the ones who drive in the middle lane on three lane highways with no-one on their left.:eek: :D

And I like that. It gives me a clear run at a Brazillion miles an hour in the express lane (the one they build on the left of all roads for little-willy people).

Strangely enough, I've driven in other countries where the lane in which one drives is not an indicator of penis size, and it all seems to work there.

Speeding is dangerous. Creating angst and anger in other drivers by travelling slowly in the inappropriate lane is apparently a good thing, it makes them go faster, miss seeing the radar traps through the red mist, then they learn their lesson! It's all about education.

Cheers,

P
:cool: :cool: :cool:

[silentC]

I rarely speed. Well, I go with the 10 percent rule anyway. I have cruise control on the car. I dial up the speed I want and it's surprising how easy it is to sit back and do the speed limit (within the 10 percent rule) and not get impatient like I used to with my foot on the accelerator.

I don't sit in the middle lane, because hardly any of the roads I drive on have them. Infact hardly any of the roads here have more than one.

[Rossluck]

Of everything that has been said, this is the bit that worries me the most. Kinda sums up my impression of most 'professional drivers'. I used to drive up and down the Hume/Federal highway a lot. Used to see lots of 'gambling'.

My old man is always on about speed traps and revenue raising. Fact is you are supposed to be doing 60 when you get to the sign, not 100 metres after it. Good on 'em for pinging you, should happen more often.



What I was searching for on this forum was some realism and honesty, but a whole lot of apparently perfect people responded with rosary beads, technical manuals, and “tut tuts”.
<O:p</O:p
By gambling I don’t mean that I purposely break the law in a contest with the police. Anyone who drives breaks the law every time they drive. If you think that you don’t, then hang on to those rosary beads because you’re going to need them. Any realistic traffic cop out there will agree that they could fine any motorist they followed for some technical breach of the road rules. It could be as simple a thing as a brief toot on the horn as you pass a friend, not coming to an absolute standstill at a stop sign, or not putting your indicator on the required distance from an intersection (a favourite of all of you perfect people, from my experience).
<O:p</O:p
Anyone who tells me that they ALWAYS pass speed limit signs at the reduced and required speed is yanking their chain. This includes the police. Not only would this require the rigid conformity of a nun (why not extend the metaphor), but also the vacant dullness of a sheep.
<O:p
</O:pGet real. You can’t all be better drivers than me. You can’t all comply rigidly with the law all of the time. Doesn’t some spirited, human aspect of your intellects advise you that you’re being pendantically and condescendingly sanctimonious when you know full well that a lot of what I said is right.
<O:p</O:p
Imagine this scenario: you’re driving along at the speed limit, you round a bend, you see a 60KM roadworks sign, you completely back off the accelerator, look up away from the sign to assess the situation, and there is a police officer is waving you over. That quickly. Count through it: 101, 102, bang!. That, my perfect friends, is an unfair trap.
<O:p</O:p
My argument is a simple one. Every now and then, say 2% or 3% of the time, the police around <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com /><st1:City w:st=<ST1:pBrisbane </ST1:p</st1:City>and the Gold Coast set a radar trap that tends towards the unfair. It happens. It is my contention that when it does occur, it is the type of things that attracts the (perhaps unfair) tag of revenue collecting.

[HappyHammer]

And I like that. It gives me a clear run at a Brazillion miles an hour in the express lane (the one they build on the left of all roads for little-willy people).

Strangely enough, I've driven in other countries where the lane in which one drives is not an indicator of penis size, and it all seems to work there.

Speeding is dangerous. Creating angst and anger in other drivers by travelling slowly in the inappropriate lane is apparently a good thing, it makes them go faster, miss seeing the radar traps through the red mist, then they learn their lesson! It's all about education.

Cheers,

P
:cool: :cool: :cool:

Is this an admission to intentionally driving in the middle lane despite the keep left unless overtaking signs? Do you have these signs in QLD?

HH.

[Wongo]

Revenue raiser or not, the best way to beat it is stick with the speed limit. If you can’t read numbers then come to uncle Wongo and I will give you a free lesson.

[HappyHammer]

Sign me up Wongo :D :D

HH.

[Iain]

One of our heads of Traffic Police stated that fines for speeding were completely voluntary, if you do not want to contribute, it's your call.
I have two fines for speeding since 1967, and one was questionable given the speed limit signs location, but, I wore it and paid.
The other I was getting impatient as I overtook the dawdling unmarked car going up a hill:o

[bitingmidge]

Is this an admission to intentionally driving in the middle lane despite the keep left unless overtaking signs? Do you have these signs in QLD?
Not by me.

I thought I was clear: I intentionally drive in the left hand lane, because it's always vacant. The signs exist, but they don't seem to be understood.

A bit like the 60 signs apparently!;)

Rossluck, I don't think you are going to win! You didn't decelarate at all, (from 80 to 81 remember?) If you'd got down to 74 you may not have been booked, but you were doing more than 20 k's over the limit.

A quick stab on the brake would have done it for you, nothing dangerous, just a quick stab.....

Cheers,

P (who would have been done doing 68!)

:D

[HappyHammer]

Good on yer Midge, the left lane is there for a reason and we should use it. This would prevent hot heads overtaking on the inside and adding to the dangers on our roads.;)

I think Ross luck was prolly doing 85 and slowed to 81 rather than sped up??

HH.

[Rossluck]

Rossluck, I don't think you are going to win! You didn't decelarate at all, (from 80 to 81 remember?) If you'd got down to 74 you may not have been booked, but you were doing more than 20 k's over the limit.

A quick stab on the brake would have done it for you, nothing dangerous, just a quick stab.....

Cheers,



:D


You're right.:D I want more like you, and fewer sheep. The debate shouldn't have been about me, but the issue.

[Clinton1]

Ross,
I think the scenario you are describing is that you might have been doing 85, saw the sign, eased off the accellerator and were pinged at 81... taking a long time to drop speed due to the load you were carrying?

I'd still go with the penalty review board avenue, if you think the radar gun was located too close to the sign that changed the limit.
If the situation was unfair and outside the guidlines for radar guns, then at least by writing a letter you make the person in charge of setting that radar gun consider and write a reply... chewing up some of their time. If its all fair and above board, at least you'll get an answer that you can consider.
It might not get a result for you, but you will know why they set it the way they did.

[silentC]

Dunno about QLD but down here, they have these "Roadworks Ahead" signs about 500m from where the speed zones change so you can't use that excuse.

I'm not a sheep. I hate getting speeding fines. I paid $450 in a three month period about 15 years ago and swore off them. Have had two since then. Not bad going for me.

I also have a bit of an issue with truck drivers, but that is another story.

[Wongo]

Sign me up Wongo :D :D

HH.


No worries Hammer but you need to do some homework first.

Study these numbers

50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, 110. :D

[silentC]

Scott, you forgot the most important number: 40. Look after our kids!

Hey, did you see that guy on the TV who put the blinking lights at the crossings outside the schools at Lugarno and around abouts? He's a friend of ours, used to work with my wife. He's the same guy with the humungous christmas lights display at Lugarno - gets on the TV every year. He has this obsession with blinking lights ;)

[Rossluck]

Dunno about QLD but down here, they have these "Roadworks Ahead" signs about 500m from where the speed zones change so you can't use that excuse.

I'm not a sheep. I hate getting speeding fines. I paid $450 in a three month period about 15 years ago and swore off them. Have had two since then. Not bad going for me.

I also have a bit of an issue with truck drivers, but that is another story.

Sorry about the vitriol. I was a little stung by your "glad you were pinged" statement. It seemed to match a lot of the more personal and abusive responses to my initial post.

You're right, you are not a sheep. And I'm not a truck driver.

[silentC]

No need for apology! I can give as good as I get but am still happy to have a laugh about it later ;)

I'm also very grumpy on Monday mornings. :mad: :D

[HappyHammer]

No worries Hammer but you need to do some homework first.

Study these numbers

50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, 110. :D

What about the wrinkly limit 40-30-40-30-40-30, might be difficult to fit on a sign:D

Do I pass?:p

HH.

[Dan_574]

well ross it was the way you were having a go at the person who booked you that they are on some sought of quota, wanting to rise through the ranks etc that I took offence at.
Lets look at your situation as you state in your first post you were booked at 81ks which if qld is like here you were probably doing 83(i will stand corrected if so) at 81ks your doing 22.5 metres per second. you say the copper was 1 or 2 seconds in when you were booked now if the copper is sitting there watching he has a 1 or 2 second time to react another 1 or 2 seconds to get your speed then another 1 or 2 seconds to put the gun down and then another 1 or 2 seconds to intercept you so here is 4 to 8 seconds that you have been travelling at 81 which equates to between 90 to 180 metres, these were rough estimates and in all probability it would be longer, thus increasing your distance, now if you look at from your view if you rounded a corner 1 or 2 second reaction time, you haven't even passed the sign yet, apply brakes which would have given you enough time to wipe off 20ks before seeing mr plod.
now no copper in there right mind would sit right on the change in speed zone because we all know that that if it was to be contested at court we would loose especially if you say that it just sprang out at you. Qld would be no different either in the way roadworks are set up in that it should have a set of speed signs then a repeater set 100m or so in front of the first set.
If he was using a laser or lidar which Im sure he would, (if it was a radar and there were other cars around they would cause interference) it should have the distance that you were checked at.
Here in vic police policy(not the law) states that we shouldnt sit within 100 metres of a speed sign(there are exceptions) this is due to fairness.
Most people who get booked and then think about it, start to believe that they were hard done by, if he was that close to the change in speed zone take it to court and Im sure you would have a good chance of getting off, in all likely hood you would have been at least 100 metres into the zone when checked. You said in your first post that you were 100m OR SO from the speed change then it later changes to 2 seconds which is only 65m, your stories already changed.

[Sturdee]

Get real................... Doesn’t some spirited, human aspect of your intellects advise you that you’re being pendantically and condescendingly sanctimonious when you know full well that a lot of what I said is right.


Why don't you get REAL.

You were speeding before you got to the speed reduction sign and failed to slow down at all. Then you get pinged and whinge about revenue raising.

What if someone walked onto that road and you hit it. You probably would have killed such person. No doubt you think that is also being pendantic and a condescending sanctimonious point of view. But it happens.:mad:

Personally I think that the police should be tougher than they are and have at least 4 times as many speed traps on our roads until drivers learn that speed kills and that road rules are there to be obeyed by all, especially truck drivers.

Last year I sat on a jury where we saw first hand the carnage that speed brought about in a collission that would not have happened if the law had been obeyed. An innocent passenger in the other car killed and that driver suffered permanent brain damage as well as the offending driver and his passenger mate.

We found him guilty and he got 4 1/2 years but two families were and still are totally devastated.

So don't tell me I'm pendantic and condescending or sanctimonious or that you are making sense, for you are not. :mad: You are just a speeder that got caught, and IMO still got of lightly.

Peter.

[DanP]

I'm not going to bother with the "you were speeding" etc. I'm going to specifically address the coments on camera's, seatbelts and revenue raising. Let me say firstly that I don't like the way in which speed cameras are used in Victoria.

In 1970, compulsory wearing of seatbelts was introduced. The Road toll was 1061. In 1971 the road toll was 140 less. Coincidence?

In 1976, the road toll was 938 when random breath testing was introduced respectively. Over the next four years, the road toll dropped by nearly 300. Coincidence?

In 80, 81 and 82 Radar, Booze buses and Red light cameras were introduced. By 1988, 65 less lives were lost. Coincidence?

In 1989 the road toll was 777 ( a bad year). Speed camera's were introduced and in 1990, the road toll was a staggering 229 less than 1989 and has steadily decreased ever since. Coincidence?

Speeding is a causal factor in 26% of fatal crashes in Victoria.

Less than 1% of infringements issued by police (as opposed to 78% for cameras) are for 0 - 9 km/h above the speed limit.

Dan

[dazzler]

Hey Ross

Can you do us a favour. Tomorrow ring the copper who booked you, his number and name should be on the fine. Ask him politely how far into the zone you were.

The spiel he would give on the ticket (or machine) should be something like;

LASER: Speed was checked at 81km/h at a distance of xxx metres. Stationed xxxm nth of x.

RADAR: Speed was checked over x metres for x secs and seen to be 82km/h. Location x metres from x.

(different methods for different states.)

This is done so that plod can later state exactly where he was if the matter proceeds to court.

If he was using a laser he should have recorded the distance he was from you and a fixed object. If he was using a radar then as Dan says the check would have been over a certain time/distance. He will know and should tell you, unless there is something he has to worry about:rolleyes: .

It would be interesting to know. If he has checked you as you say he has then you have every right to complain as I doubt very much if he is using it within guidelines and if so he needs to be councelled big time.

And if this is the case then you need to at the very least write to his supervisor and have the matter reviewed.

Ask if there is a minimum distance that you can be booked coming into a speed change area. There is no reason why he wouldnt tell you and if he wont speak to his supervisor.

I dont think anyones been overly harsh on you. You asked the question and, just like at the local, got told by some.

I do disagree totally with some of your thoughts on it being impossible to break the law. I have taught over 2500 coppers to drive and I can assure you that sitting next to them they manage it otherwise no licence would be forthcoming. Just takes commitment to the task at hand.

And the sad thing is, over the years that i was involved in Accident Investigations, it was multiples of little mistakes/lack of concentration that caused a lot of fatal accidents.

IE : Just a little bit over the limit and a little lack of concentration/stupidity and poor timing that caused lots of major collisions.

Cant wait to hear what plod said;)

[dazzler]

I'm not going to bother with the "you were speeding" etc. I'm going to specifically address the coments on camera's, seatbelts and revenue raising. Let me say firstly that I don't like the way in which speed cameras are used in Victoria.

In 1970, compulsory wearing of seatbelts was introduced. The Road toll was 1061. In 1971 the road toll was 140 less. Coincidence?

In 1976, the road toll was 938 when random breath testing was introduced. Over the next four years, the road toll dropped by nearly 300. Coincidence?

In 80, 81 and 82 Radar, Booze buses and Red light cameras were introduced. By 1988, 65 less lives were lost. Coincidence?

In 1989 the road toll was 777 ( a bad year). Speed camera's were introduced and in 1990, the road toll was a staggering 229 less than 1989 and has steadily decreased ever since. Coincidence?

Speeding is a causal factor in 26% of fatal crashes in Victoria.

Less than 1% of infringements issued by police (as opposed to 78% for cameras) are for 0 - 9 km/h above the speed limit.

Dan

Nah, just revenue raisin!:rolleyes:

Spot on Danp. I went back through the ACT records for fatals a few years ago and it showed a greater than half the reduction of fatalities when seat belts were made compulsory.:D

I have given out seven 0-9k infringements. All for overtaking me and saying they thought I had to give them 15 to 20k before booking......:rolleyes:


cheers

dazzler

[echnidna]

I have given out seven 0-9k infringements. All for overtaking me and saying they thought I had to give them 15 to 20k before booking......:rolleyes:


They deserved a ticket for stupidity:)

[Schtoo]

Sounds like idiot tax...

[shep]

In 1970, compulsory wearing of seatbelts was introduced. The Road toll was 1061. In 1971 the road toll was 140 less. Coincidence?

In 1976, the road toll was 938 when random breath testing was introduced respectively. Over the next four years, the road toll dropped by nearly 300. Coincidence?

In 80, 81 and 82 Radar, Booze buses and Red light cameras were introduced. By 1988, 65 less lives were lost. Coincidence?

In 1989 the road toll was 777 ( a bad year). Speed camera's were introduced and in 1990, the road toll was a staggering 229 less than 1989 and has steadily decreased ever since. Coincidence?

Speeding is a causal factor in 26% of fatal crashes in Victoria.

Less than 1% of infringements issued by police (as opposed to 78% for cameras) are for 0 - 9 km/h above the speed limit.

Dan

gday
i wonder what the death toll would be if people were tought to control a car rather then point it in the right direction. as for speeding if it was so dangerious no drivers would be left alive in the N.T (no speed limit on open roads) i have just spent 6 years living in NSW and was stunned at how people drove i honestly felt safer riding at over 250kph in the territory.
cheers shep

[Rossluck]

I want to apologise to any police officers who may have been offended by anything I’ve written here. I know you have a tough job and I didn’t mean to unite you all under the “revenue collecting” tag. :)

[ernknot]

You got busted, pay the penalty and move on. At least learn from this and slow down, you save fuel as well.

[namtrak]

I want to apologise to any police officers who may have been offended by anything I’ve written here. I know you have a tough job and I didn’t mean to unite you all under the “revenue collecting” tag. :)

I got a $300 fine a few months ago (two weeks before christmas to be exact) for covering my license plate. I had a towball on which partially covered the plate (check out Subaru Foresters they are walking/driving fine bombs). I was a tad upset and let the officer at the time know exactly I thought. I do landscaping during the day and use the trailer all day, I was just dropping SWMBO off at work. As I let a steady stream of invective off at the officer, I was duly warned by SWMBO that police are now armed - I calmed down somewhat!! Anyway I sent off a letter to everyone I could think of - Infringement Board, Police Monister, ARB Management etc etc. Still had to pay the fine, but after a few weeks I had a pang of guilt that, whilst I was peeved at this officer I still could have effected his employment in someway - so I subsequently sent off an apology. At the end of the day - I figured he was only doing his job.

CHeers

[jmk89]

My 2c.

I am glad that our forum members who are also police officers seem to take a sensible view of speeding - ie they are really after the guys who are just way over and dangerous. That's been my experience over the last almost 30 years of driving. On 110 roads I know that I am sometimes over by 5-10kph, but rarely if ever more. So far, I haven't been fined.

My greater concern is the one that has been mentioned already - people plodding along in the RH lane (and plodding includes at the speed limit, because every driver knows that even if that is the legal limit, a large percentage of drivers will be exceeding it). The consequence of this is that the lair who is determined to drive at 20-30 kph over the limit will overtake on the left (a practice known in the UK as "undertaking" - quite appropriate, I think). This is a very dangerous manoeuvre. In the UK and the rest of Europe, the practice on 3 lane motorways is o/s lane for those who don't want to do more than 20 less than speed limit, everyone else in the middle lane and only in the inside lane if you are overtaking. If you plod along (even breaking the speed limit) in the inside lane, others will flash you and police will book you - not for the speed but for not moving to the correct lane. And you lose your licence for undertaking.

When I returned to Oz after several years in Europe with this set of rules, I got terrified on freeways where some idiot would be at 115k in the inside lane and wasn't able to pass me and didn't have the balls to fall in behind me and so some hoon would blast past at 140 on my left and then cut across us both. (Now I see if I can slow considerably to try to get the guy on my right to move into my lane - but this worries me because no-one is as good at judging the speeds of cars behind as those in front).

I am not saying not to deal with speeding (I think that generally the NSW and Vic police (where I normally drive) have it about right). But there is other behaviour which is more dangerous caused by not allowing traffic to move through at its preferred rates which should also be focussed on.

So, my request is that we pull over to the left if not overtaking. Then at least the idiots who want to really speed might not get into blind spots and cause real damage to others by undertaking (which should be prohibited). If they really speed, book them for that as well. But make sure that there is a lane inside you for overtaking unless you are actually doing that manoeuvre yourself.

Here endeth the rant

[Flowboy]

Hi,

While its not directly related, I'd like to offer another incidence of "Revenue raising."

Before I start, I was guilty as charged and paid the fine accordingly. Also, I too believe that the Police work extremely hard. There like Pilots, your glad their there when you need them, but can't understand why they earn so much when the plane is cruising.
Anyway, a couple months back I checked the mail to see I had a letter from the EPA. On opening it, I was informed I owed them $125.00 for "placing a gigarette butt on te pavement.
Further, someone had seen me and was prepared to go to court to testify. If I wanted to dispute the fine, I had to provide a Stat Dec to say I wasn't driving or the car wasn't there.
Guilty until proven innocent, trapped by lurking Vigilantes who may or may not have other issues apart from littering. Its the guilty till ptovenb innocent thing that bothers me most.

Regards

Rob

[Dan_574]

Flow if I didnt do it I would gladly go to court over the epa issue. Thanks for the apology ross. Thanks JMK, Like dan said less than 1% get booked by police for less than 9ks over, I can honestly say that in the last 8 and half years I have never given a ticket for less than 9, there are too many fish in the barrel 18 plus and alot in the 25, 35, 45 and 55 over. Big speeds that do kill, my last fatal was a twenty something girl doing a right hand turn legally, didnt see or could be expected to see two idiots doing about 140 in the 80 zone, one of which t boned her and pushed her car 85metres up the road. Poor girl didnt stand a chance, so yes speed does kill as we all know, anything 40kmh or over in a t-bone collision is life threatening.
I like everyone else do speed and dont agree with how the cameras are used down here, but hey what do you do.

[dazzler]

I want to apologise to any police officers who may have been offended by anything I’ve written here. I know you have a tough job and I didn’t mean to unite you all under the “revenue collecting” tag. :)




No apology needed. Thick skins and debate is good for all:D :D

[HJ0]

Victoria has funny speeding laws , or have they changed.

A friend was busted doing 119km in 90 zone whilst towing a speedboat, in nsw last i remember you can't do more than 90km with trailers attached.


If he was done in nsw, he would have gotten a lot bigger fine than he did and possible lost his licence.... WHAT GIVES.:eek:


HJ0 Cheers

[ernknot]

They are probably better drivers?

[silentC]

in nsw last i remember you can't do more than 90km with trailers attached
That's a new one on me. Anyone confirm or deny?

[HappyHammer]

That's a new one on me. Anyone confirm or deny?

"There is no specific speed restriction while towing a trailer. However, the posted speed limits must not be exceeded.Always drive to the road,traffic and weather conditions. "

Source RTA;)

HH.

[Wood Butcher]

My dad (Senior Physics Teacher) always used to say "Speeding does not kill....Its the sudden stop that does it".

Anyway, I've been in a situation similar to Ross's where I was driving a 12t truck loaded with beehives. I came round a corner to see a lower speed zone sign and instead of hitting the brakes and potentially causing the load (8ton of live bees) to shift I slowly used the exhaust brakes. Fortunately there was no police to book me but the situation does exist. Especially in SE QLD there are some mongrel roads where you can come around a corner not having any idea what may be there.

[HJ0]

Vehicle hitting into object, Head hitting dash etc, brain hitting inside of skull. Think Theres a 4th hit if your riding a motorcycle, or just plain unlucky.:eek:


HJ0 Cheers

[HJ0]

That's a new one on me. Anyone confirm or deny?



No trailer speed restrictions in nsw, so i'm wrong.:)

RTA says that law was changed 7-8 years ago, that was about the time i was in VIC.


HJO Cheers Think i need retesting :D

[Daddles]

Think i need retesting :D

Why? Scared you're not human? Doesn't bother Zed :D

Richard