Which Ute?

[Bodgy]

Thinking about giving business away for a bit. Thought a Ute would be a good idea. Which one?

For the twin cab, with a bit of comfort, choice seems to be Nissan, Toyota, Holden, Ford or Mitsubishi.


1. Petrol or diesel? Diesel seems to the obvious choice, for better economy but it seems you only get around 20% better and diesel costs 20% $$ more. Is there any point? The Germans have small deisel technology off to a fine art - witness the new Golf diesel, but those utes listed above seem not to offer any compelling perfomance/economy.

2. The Mitsubishi uses a very old engine design?

3, The Toyota seems over priced

4. The Nissan Navara turbo diesel looks good.

I'd appreciate any comments, particularly from owners.

[doug the slug]

WHile diesels are supposedly cheaper to run, they are far more expensive when they dont run- repair costs have to be seen to be believed. i owned a diesel vehicle once. it was a lemon. i estimate that it cost me $80,000 to own it for 3 years.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon4.gif

Get a Triton, an orange one of course :cool: :cool: :D

[Mirboo]

My 2-year old son has a ute like the one in the pictures below, only his is blue. It's made by Little Tikes. He reckons it's great. Very cheap to run and much cheaper to buy than the likes of Toyota and Mitsubishi etc.

[DJ’s Timber]

G'day Bodgy

I have a '05 Toyota SRXTRA CAB V6 which I absolutly love
I bought the petrol cause I also tow a tandem trailer on the highways which involve a lot of hills, and will often have 2 tonne of wood in it and also 3/4 of a tonne in the ute as well and it just purrs along beautifully
If I wasn't towing I would have got the diesal
A mate of mine has the Navara diesal Dual cab and he often drives from Melbourne to NSW towing as well and he is quite happy with his as well
My brother has just bought the Nissan as well. He decided on the Navara cause he was after a bit more of the comfort and more car feeling of the cab so he could use it for work and going away with the family as well. He also picked the diesal too.
From memory I think the Navara diesal is the most powerful in its class as well
Hope I haven't confuse you :confused: :confused: :D :D

Cheers DJ

[savage]

http://www.ssangyongaustralia.com.au/musso.html

G'Day Bodgy,
I've have had my Musso for just over a year now and tow my boat which goes a tonne clean (before fuel and gear). I was a bit reluctant in the performance comparison as I had a V6 Izuzu powered Jackeroo, which I sold. When I first towed with the Musso I was very suprised how easily it coped in all situations, normal roads and freeway, just cruised and very comfortable.
What sold me was the amount of things that come standard on the Musso in comparison to other makes and models. Check out the link above, I bought the 2.9 turbo diesel 5cyl, as the motor is Mercedes and the rest is made under license in Korea for Mercedes. It was made a few years back by Dawoo in there factory, but many problems where caused through quality control or lack of. So Mercedes bought the factory, kicked out Dawoo and formed the Ssangyong Co who now make exclusively for Mercedes.
I'm excited!....:D :D :D

[Andy Mac]

Hi Bodgy,
We've got a Ford Courier dual cab, just a 2WD, 95 model with a 2.6 EFI. Before we got it, we did some market research mainly looking at legroom for a growing family, and the Ford had heaps more to offer! I don't know if that's still the case. It goes pretty well, even tow a small caravan, but fuel consumption is a real issue, and it pings with normal unleaded. In 5th gear at 100kph the engine is doing a touch over 3000rpm, so gearing as a problem...but maybe the small wheels add to it.
Hope this helps.

Cheers,

[Tonyz]

If your gonna take friends in your dual cab get someone to drive you around while your asse is in the rear seat .....shikes never again..... Tonto

[ozwinner]

Get a real ute (http://www.ford.com.au/range/fseries4x2/models/)

Al :p

[Auld Bassoon]

Get a real ute (http://www.ford.com.au/range/fseries4x2/models/)

Al :p

Hi Al!

I'm toying with the idea of selling the Audi and getting a ute (for woodie stuff :) ) - is that blerry great big F250 ok? Is yours the monster (7.3l V8) diesel or the puny (!) 5.4l petrol V8 - and how many hundreds of litres per Km does it consume :eek:

[ozwinner]

Hi Al!

I'm toying with the idea of selling the Audi and getting a ute (for woodie stuff :) ) - is that blerry great big F250 ok? Is yours the monster (7.3l V8) diesel or the puny (!) 5.4l petrol V8 - and how many hundreds of litres per Km does it consume :eek:

Hi Steve
I have the small punny girlie 5.4l motor.
Im not sure if the 5.4 is available anymore, I think the girlie motor is the 6l.

I get 20l per 100kms from her.
I heard somewhere Ford are going to stop selling them.

I hope that is true, it will make the price rise..... :p

Al :)

[Auld Bassoon]

Hi Steve
I have the small punny girlie 5.4l motor.
Im not sure if the 5.4 is available anymore, I think the girlie motor is the 6l.

I get 20l per 100kms from her.
I heard somewhere Ford are going to stop selling them.

I hope that is true, it will make the price rise..... :p

Al :)

Still advertising - but may be run-out stock - which may mean a reasonable deal???

I've requested a test drive :D

[ozwinner]

Still advertising - but may be run-out stock - which may mean a reasonable deal???

I've requested a test drive :D

Yep just got the request.

Request denied.

Al :p

[BrisBen]

I have a 3 year old ST-R turbo diesel Navara Duel Cab and I can say it was a decent change from a naturally aspirated 4.2l diesel GQ Patrol as far as road driving is concerned - Navara drives like a car around town, GQ like a tank. (off road you could probably only beat a well fitted out GQ with a military vehicle as far as capability is concerned)

Anyway I've been watching the progression of the model over the years and guess what - not only has the overall package improved (air bags, electric mirrors etc) the latest price is actually lower than what I paid 3 years ago!!!

As far as maintenance goes - 1 set of new tyres (only got 45k out of the factory tyres but they have been changed on subsequent models) and regular servicing - oh on the tyre issue you need to check that the tyre/rim set suits the payload/speed rating when replacing, this can be a bit expensive with a 16 inch rim with 100km speed rating and a 2t load rating - you pretty much only have BFG's or Coopers to choose from.

I get on average around town 660 km to a 65 litre fill up (75 l tank but I don't like going under 10l)

I've done a little off road work on the FIL's farm but haven't really challenged it to assess that aspect.

Apparently the turbo diesel technology for the engine was bought from Renault. (Am willing to be disproven on this one but a small diesel with 1800 rpm highway speed and decent torque hints European design)

My thoughts anyway

Bb

PS Did BMW do well at Le Mans with a turbo diesel vehicle?? Anyone know

[graemet]

1. Petrol or diesel? Diesel seems to the obvious choice, for better economy but it seems you only get around 20% better and diesel costs 20% $$ more. Is there any point? The Germans have small deisel technology off to a fine art - witness the new Golf diesel, but those utes listed above seem not to offer any compelling perfomance/economy.


Bodgy,
1. ULP and deisel are both about the same price at the moment - $1.41.
2. My 2 litre deisel (car) is using 6.5l/100km for the last 8000km as opposed to 9 or 10 for the average Commodore.
3. Towing torque is great. My TS goes about a tonne on the trailer and I hardly know it's there, even pulling up the F3 from Hawkesbury River bridge to Cowan.
Cheers
Graeme

[Slow6]

as long as it aint a v6 rodeo.. I had the unfortunate experience of towing an empty cage to nsw and it came in at just over 4k per ltr.. a 19ton coach I used to drive for a living gave me just under 4k to the ltr :confused:

that ute was just wrong.. aparently its just the v6 tho.

[Harry72]

Bodgy have you looked at the new Mazda bravo's? They pretty slick.


Hi Bodgy,
We've got a Ford Courier dual cab, just a 2WD, 95 model with a 2.6 EFI. Before we got it, we did some market research mainly looking at legroom for a growing family, and the Ford had heaps more to offer! I don't know if that's still the case. It goes pretty well, even tow a small caravan, but fuel consumption is a real issue, and it pings with normal unleaded. In 5th gear at 100kph the engine is doing a touch over 3000rpm, so gearing as a problem...but maybe the small wheels add to it.
Hope this helps.
I've got the madza version(courier is a badge engineered mazda...),tow a small caravan... should tow a rather large caravan. I'd be puttiug in for a check up if its using a lot of fuel, they are known as a good fuel miser! Mine pings on petrol as well under heavy load on gas its ok, but that's Australia's crap ulp for you.
The 3000 rev's at 100kmh is quite normal for a 4cyl, considering they'll rev a 6k all day long without a fuss.(like most jap utes built near indestructible)

[BrisBen]

Seen a couple of blokes get the petrol v6 rodeo and the fuel each week is more than the lease payments !

[Gaza]

got 5.7ltr SS holden ute get 300km to tank around the city, stopped driving it when juice went over 1.25, went to start it the other day and the battery was flat.

looking to buy a 1990 model 4x4 diesel with tray back for work and a hotrod for a toy. works out cheaper than having the SS plus dont need to empty my tools out when i go out.

if it was me keep your car and buy a cheap ute, there is heaps on ebay under 8k that are good.

[E. maculata]

'06 Nissan Navara STiR dal cab, two words for it
"Bloody Brilliant"

three more for you
"Cheap as Chips"

4 words
"buy one right now"

5 words
"proper three tonne towing capacity"

6 words
"Goes like poop off a shovel"

last word
"Great"

[Bodgy]

Thanks guys

It seems one forgets the Holden, no votes for Mitsubishi, Mazda a bit iffy, can't afford a small Gulf State for the F100's thirst, no to the Ford ute.

Praise for the Musso and Nissan.

Never knew the Musso existed in ute form. Will check it out but for $26K sounds too good to be true.

Been eyeing off the Nissan for a while now, just unsure as to Jap diesels.

[Buzzer]

Hi Bodgy,

Just my 2 bob's worth.
I live out in the sticks, and around 60-70% of the utes around here are Toyota's. either Luxers or Cruisers. They have a good reputation (around here at least) for their reliability.
I own a luxer and would buy the same again.

Cheers
Buzzer.

[Auld Bassoon]

PS Did BMW do well at Le Mans with a turbo diesel vehicle?? Anyone know

Actually, it was Audi - and yes they did ok - they won. Again. :D

[Chris Parks]

I drive diesel Transit vans for a living (Ozzie Post). The new common rail diesels coming out of Europe have to be driven to be believed. You will NEVER buy a Jap diesel after driving one of these. They have unbelievable torque and are very economical to boot. They don't do utes, but a cab chassis with a tray would be a great vehicle....just don't fall over when you price it.

[Andy Mac]

I'd be puttiug in for a check up if its using a lot of fuel, they are known as a good fuel miser!

Hi Harry,
I've just been on a 2000km trip in the Courier, mostly open road driving, with all seats taken, a fair load in the back (including tools & 10 vices), and builders bar/rack with a knock-down timber workbench, and took a log of fuel usage. I had the engine serviced before we went. I have worked out consumption to be around 11.5litres per 100kms, in my reckoning, about 20.5mpg. I'm not overly impressed, as I didn't push it, although there was extra drag from the laod on top.
It equates to a test I did on our old Mitsubishi L300 van, which was a 4x4 and had a 2.6 Astron engine installed...I had no illusions about that old brick!:o
Regards the revs this ute does, I guess they are geared differently to cars, but our family wagon (a Mitsubishi Magna) only does 1500-ish in fifth gear at 100kph...just over half the rpm of the ute. I reckon the revs are the problem, drop back to 80kph and fuel usage drops dramatically.
Anyway, I'll stop bleating as there's nothing I can do to change it!

Cheers,

[Grahame Collins]

Andy,
I have a Mazda B2600 petrol that has a 110,000 on the clock.On its best day it will do 10L/100 km .Sorry do not know what that is in mpg.That is with a canopy.
This is a 5 speeder.Around town it runs 8L/100km



I can tell you what to avoid at all costs and that is a Tata Telcoline.
I suffered ownership of one of these marvels of Indian engineering from new until 57.000 kms and could not put up with it any longer.It broke down once every 32 days on average.It was a 2.litre turbo diesel and nearly everthing that worked eventually didn't.Example ,the needle fell off the tacho at 200kms, Fan belt idler pulley bolt fell out at 8oo kms.And on it went Lost $12000 on it over three years.

Grahame

[Harry72]

Loaded up and still getting 11.5/100, thats not bad at all...

I know in mine driving to Adelaide it only uses approx 16~17ltrs to do 220km. Coming back is a different story tho, with a pack'o'crapiarta(about 650kg)plus a few bits and pieces(tools n stuff:) )it sucks nearly half a tank 30ltrs.

Wana know a funny thing, both my last utes were Ford V8's a XHII 5ltr and a BA 5.4ltr using cruise control they only used a tad more than the Mazda... until you hit town that is!

Is the Magna a 6 or 4? Last one I was in(1994)a 4cyl auto was doing around 2800 at 110kmh, and had woeful fuel consumption.
One thing to keep in mind too a service nowdays isnt a check up, just a filter a oil change they generaly only hook a diagnostic machine if you say its got problems... not like the old days.

[Schtoo]

Andy, to give you an idea of what RPM does, we got this Honda 5 cylinder thing here, and it runs at about 2,700rpm or so @ 100km/h. Just a 2 litre thing, front drive and might have Vtec too.

Last trip to Kobe and back to here (500km round trip) and about 2 hours of town driving (Sydney peak hour-esque) and it chewed through just on 50 litres of fuel IIRC.

I was actually quite impressed, since it usually only gets that in the autumn and spring if I drive like an old fart. Winter it sucks more fuel during warm up, summer the AC sucks the juice.

Granted, the average speed to Kobe and back was closer to 130km/h than 80km/h...

I do have to admit, when it's revving it brain out, it does hurt fuel economy.

Might be a VERY good idea to find out if there is another injector or two that comes in when more power is needed and usually above a set rpm point. If you can keep it below that, then you get very good fuel economy.

As an example, an RX-8 is a fuel hog, but I have heard of better than 30MPG keeping the revs right down...

[TassieKiwi]

The Toyota will cost more - but will fetch a high resale price of at least 70 - 75% in 3 yrs, quality second to none. BTW the Kluger 3.3L v6 achieves 12-14l/100, but goes to 15-17 with the 1+tonne campertrailer. Boss pays tho so I don't care :p

D

[Pulpo]

The Nissan Navara 06 model diesel is a CRD.

And would be my choice if driving around town and with the family.

Competitive price as well

The Holden Rodeo 03 and up models seem decent as well, they seem to be imitating the Navara style.

The Toyota is a true work vehicle, not cheap.

I have a Ford, 4WD, courier, diesel 97 model dual cab, not turbo.

At 40,000 the clutch went, at 70,000 the gear box went;

Not to mention many other smaller problems.

It tows an empty small trailer on the flat really well.:rolleyes:

10L/100 is the normal fuel efficiency mix city/country.

4wd, if one back wheel spins no power for the other wheels.

Ford courier would be off my short list.

I also own a cab chassis one tonne Nissan, 87 model, 2wd; cannot kill it.

Good Luck

Pulpo

[maglite]

I Have a BA ute that has done pretty well for me most of the time.
I average between 10 + 11.5 / 100km and i dont baby it.

That being said i too am very impressed with the nissan STR and can often be seen drooling over the one with all the fruit in the local dealership.
The salesman reckons Nissan recommend servicing every 5000k and as i do a lot of kms this is a BIG concern, more than fuel cost to be honest.

I had a look at the Triton the other day, a bloke at work has one, he swears by it.
On the road for 36K makes this look pretty good too, but i might wait to see if the bring out one with an up to date engine.
Check out the link for owner comments.......very interesting reading and a lot of horror stories from Rodeo owners.

Cheers
Steve

http://www.productreview.com.au/index.php

[Groggy]

My 2WD Hilux has just hit 80,000 trouble free kms (actually, one issue fixed under warranty). Have driven it at 110 kms @ 2700rpm for three hours a week over the last year, it loved it. A little wind noise at that speed but otherwise no problems.

[E. maculata]

The salesman reckons Nissan recommend servicing every 5000k and as i do a lot of kms this is a BIG concern, more than fuel cost to be honest.


Yep they do say that don't they:o
17,000 so far 2 services, 3rd this week:) I'd reckon

[Bodgy]

After all the info, I'm going to take a Musso our this week, for a test drive.

It seems to provide the best balance between purchase price and performance.

Will ley youse know how it goes, beinterested in any comments.

FYI - On special $25K plus on roads - pretty hard to beat, given the Merc diesel.

I don't beleive in the tooth fairy so will be looking for gotchyas.

[journeyman Mick]

A few words about EFI and Common Rail Injection Diesels. For most people this won't be a consideration but I thought I'd post it for the minority. Common Rail Injection Diesels are set up pretty much lika a petrol EFI motor. There's a common rail which is basically a tube full of pressurised fuel connected to all the injectors. The injectors are opened and closed electronically with the timing and duration of their opening being adjusted by a black box which takes into account all sorts of factors like revs, load, air flow through the intake manifold and degree of combustion in the exhuast. This means that the motor can develop more power whilst using less fuel than a conventional mechanically injected diesel (or carbueretor-fed petrol motor. All good so far.

The old mechanically injected diesel has a pump (or individual pumps, one for each injector) which sends a pulse of high pressure fuel to each injector at the appropriate time. The injector has a spring loaded valve which opens and closes according to the pressure of the fuel in the line. All the timing is varied mechanically and thus it can't react as quickly nor as subtly as the electronic version.

However.... if the black box decides it doesn't want to play any more, either because you've just drowned it in a deeper than anticipated creek crossing, or because ten years of driving on corrugated dirt roads have finally taken their toll, or maybe because all that humidity and dust has shorted out some important component, or maybe even because of a manufacturing fault or a level of quality control that is not up to aeronautical standards allowed a dodgy one through, well then, you're stuck. And if you reckon it never happens ask Woodborer how his last outback trip finished.:( .

With an old mechanically injected diesel you can run even if you have absolutely no battery. Find the fuel cutoff solenoid on the injection pump. Unscrw it from the body of the pump and plug the hole with a bolt. In an emergency if you can't find a bolt you could remove the end of the solenoid plunger by sawing or breaking it off and then replace it. Push start diesel (very easy to do). Drive to civilisation.

Again for most people it isn't a consideration, but I want to hang onto my ute for ten years or so. I should have it all decked out in the next twelve months - undertray storage boxes, water tank, 2nd battery, compressor, bull bar, winch, carry racks, diff breathers etc etc and I don't want to be doing this every three years or so. I have serious doubts that any computer controlled motor is going to be reliable at 10 plus years in the dusty and moist environment I live in. The extra power and better fuel economy would be great, but I'll just have to make do with the intercooler I just picked up.;)

I've also seen whay happens to a computer controlled diesel on a boat when something goes wrong. You bob around on the ocean whilst trying to raise someone on a helpline in Germany.

Mick

[Harry72]

Its a bit like the old addage when efi cars come about... "no good you cant tune them"... well thats because you dont need too!(plug and play, in standard cars)
A system with fewer moving parts is generally going to be more reliable in the long run.
If your that paranoid about TBB carry a spare one!


TBB= The Black Box

[journeyman Mick]

Harry,
not being paranoid, just pointing out a possible achilles tendon. Woodborer had to have his car freighted back to civilisation when TBB decided to stop working. It meant his holiday was curtailed. There's lots of people up this way that rely on their 4wds on a daily basis. These people rarely drive on bitumen and often ford water crossings and generally hammer around on corrugated and potholed tracks. For people in such a situation a BB expiring is more than an inconvenience to their holiday. Also it's not just the BB expiring that's a problem, it's much worse when they start playing up intermittently because of dust and moisture build up in wire loom connections.
For most people buying a 4wd it's really not a problem, it's going to be a bitumen commuter for 99.9% of the time and will probably get traded in after 3 -4 years anyway. If it does break down when they're miles from nowhere on their off road trip it will give them a campfire story for years to come. For people who actually use their vehicle off road or in adverse conditions a lot of the time it's more important. How many urban dwellers would put up with a car that left them stranded on the side of the freeway without warning a few times? You need a vehicle you can rely on to get you where you want to go, without having to worry that it might stop for no reason.

Mick (not paranoid, just cautious)

[HappyHammer]

Here's my Turbo Diesel SR5 and I love it !!!!

The wife and kids fit in it nicely although it's a better ride than many utes I've been in it is still a ute so not as smooth as the Pajero.

I drive it to Sydney once or twice a month and it sits on 120kph on cruise control at about 2,500rpm and about 10l / 100km. It's rated at 9 point something L / 100km.

I've done some 4WDriving in it and it handles it with ease. Mines an auto as well so it's very easy to drive.

Went camping over xmas last year and it carried us to the Sunshine coast and back carrying our 8 man tent and all the other stuff we needed for a three week camping trip.

The lockable hard lid on the back is great and comes off easily if you need to carry something large, although does require two people.

They're not cheap but oh what a feeling cruising passed Ssangyongs and Nissans.:D :D :D :D :D
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17385
HH.

[Bodgy]

Happy

Thats a great ute, and if all things were equal I'd get one, but...

I think they're about $50K, the Musso is $27K

$23K difference. That's a lot of tools, in fact a little less than half the average Oz annual salary. When you look at it that way, the value seems a bit thin.

Great truck tho and I'm sure it crups all over the Musso.

[shep]

[quote=Pulpo]

4wd, if one back wheel spins no power for the other wheels.

sorry mate your wrong an awd car without a centre diff lock will lose all drive however a 4wd will still have full drive on the outher diff if you are loosing all drive in your 4wd ute by lifting one wheel you carnt be in 4wd.

shep