Tricky plumbing question

[Mdub]

Hi,

I was wondering if its possible to install a flickmixer tap to plumbing which has the 3 threaded sockets (pardon my igorance here) ie one for hot, one for for cold and the spout.

I thought that I could put a stopcock on the hot & cold ones and then attach the flickmixer's flexible hoses to the stopcocks and then screw a threaded plug into the old spout hole.

The only problem here is that there is nothing to stop the hot and cold water mixing in the pipe between the hot and cold stopcocks.

Are there any plumbers who can tell me how this is done properly.
BTW I can't get to the pipes themselves, just the 3 threaded sockets.

Mdub

[bitingmidge]

Ohhh dear MDub. You need a plumber, and then you can get to patch up the mess later!

The part you are describing is called a "combination" because that's what it does really, it allows one to screw in a tap body on each side, and the water flows in each direction to the centre bit, which usually is a logical place to put the spout.

To do the job properly, you need to cut out the combination, and connect each tail to the hot and cold water supply respectively. I suggest you get a plumber to do it, then satisfy your DIY urges by patching and cleaning the mess he's going to make.

OR depending on where the stuff is all situated, if it's below the sink you may be able to drop the whole catastrophe a bit, bung on your stop cocks (well actually there's nothing to stop you using the existing taps, cut the centre bit out of the combination, and solder in the mixer. I wouldn't recommend that route though!

I hope some of that is of use,

cheers,

P
;)

[journeyman Mick]

Mdub,
if you can't get to the pipes you're stuffed. Usually (but not always) there's two threaded stubs coming through the wall underneath the sink. Sometimes though it's just pipe coming through the wall or up through the floor. You need to shut off the water supply, and either cut the copper pipes or remove the existing fittings of the threaded outlets. Then you'll need to fit stop cocks (regulations require individual stopcocks fitted to flickmixers) and fit the flickmixer to the sink. But it gets trickier.... the centre hole of the combination is smaller than the outer two and you won't get the flickmixer to fit in it. So, do you try to enlarge the centre hole and blank off the two outers or do you live with assymetry?:rolleyes:

Like Midge said, you need to get a plumber. There's a good chance you'll end up wrecking the undersink cabinet from water leaks if you don't and there's a very good chance you'll spend an entire frustrating weekend trying to fix leaks or driving back and forth to the hardware store trying to explain to the sale staff what you want (without actually knowing if it exists, and, if it does, what it's called). Save your sanity and call a plumber.

Mick

[HJ0]

Not sure if talking kitchen but you can replace the whole valve/s in each normal tap with 1/4 turn ones like they have in a lot of public buildings.

Cost about $20 each from tradelink(( bit dangerous with a standard knob off/full on in 1/4 turn) nice trendy ss lever handles cost me $60 for 2.


HJ0

[Jacksin]

Personally I dont like kitchen mixers, and I'll probably start a bun fight here, because they have only got a 5yr warranty on the ceramic discs (longer on the other parts) that wear out first.

I know a plumber who buys these things by the carton because with the ceramic repair kit being two thirds of the price of the complete article, its easier and cheaper to replace the whole unit every 6 or 7 yrs! which just for their stylish looks is pretty damn expensive.

Quarter turn ceramic disc tapware is only guaranteed for 2 yrs. Call me old fashioned but I still prefer the standard tapware.

[journeyman Mick]

Jack,
when my parents moved into their current house 23 years ago they had all the taps replaced by either flickmixers or quarter turn cartridges. About 10 years ago I replaced a cartridge in one of the flickmixers for about $30. I reckon there would have been quite a few standard washers replaced in the same time, as well as seats recut or with stainless inserts fitted.

Mick

[Dan]

...regulations require individual stopcocks fitted to flickmixers
Didn't know that. I thought I was being a trend setter when I replaced the mixer in the kitchen last year and ended fitting two stop cocks just to get the tapered seat that the new mixer hoses required.:(

Any idea of the reasoning behind this regulation?

[journeyman Mick]

Dan,
don't know the reasoning behind the reg. but at a guess: If your standard tap leaks you can shut off the main and muck around with a reseater and washers etc and have it back on the road in half an hour or so. If your flickmixer dies it may take you a day or more to source a cartridge kit. Plus once you've replaced the cartridge or possibly the whole mixer you need to flush the lines before connecting them. With stopcock in place you can leave the water connected to the rest of the installation, plus at less than $5 each why wouldn't you fit them.

Mick

[Jacksin]

About 10 years ago I replaced a cartridge in one of the flickmixers for about $30. I reckon there would have been quite a few standard washers replaced in the same time, as well as seats recut or with stainless inserts fitted.

Mick, Tradelink plumbing supplies quoted me $65 for the ceramic repair kit, IF I could identify the brand as early imported ones arent available. Adding labour it becomes expensive, with no guarantee it will stop dripping. A new one costs around $90 and takes about 10mins to swap over.

Standard washers/seats are far simpler.

[journeyman Mick]

Jack,
Tradelink and Reece will really sting you if you don't have a trade account with them. I can get PVC pipe for about 50% of their prices from my hardware store. Standard washers are simpler to replace but will need replacing more often. Like I said, in 23 years we've had to replace one cartridge at my parent's place. If there was standard washer type taps fitted there would have been a lot more mucking around repairing/replacing stuff. Guess it comes down to personal preferences, my personal preference being to fix something properly once. ;)

Mick

[Jacksin]

Well unfortunately Mick all mixers dont last as long as your folks did. If they did I guess warrantees would be doubled that of what they are now. I am basing my preference on the opinions of another plumber, the manager of my local Tradelink and the labour cost of fiddling around with one. Far different from doing a love job for your folks.

That price was with a trade account Mick, mine.

But in a forum we are allowed to have differing opinions, arent we?

[journeyman Mick]

............But in a forum we are allowed to have differing opinions, arent we?

Sorry Jack:o , didn't mean to labour the point.

Mick

[lnt9000]

Mdub,
Then you'll need to fit stop cocks (regulations require individual stopcocks fitted to flickmixers)
Mick

You sure about that mick?, I do know that you have to check your water pressure and if it exceeds a particular amount to fit restricters, but stop cocks?

[journeyman Mick]

Hen,
definitely a requirement in Queensland. At about $7 for a pair of them, why wouldn't you fit them?

Mick

[Jacksin]

Yeh definately a regulation here too.

[lnt9000]

Research has shown that cheap and not so cheap mixer taps can spring a leak if the pressure is too great, many manufacturers have warnings on their products to fit suppressors If the water pressure exceeds a particular amount, provided you comply with their requirements they will stand by their warranty, thats not to say that they will warrant a drenched kitchen due to their mixer malfunctioning.
So it would seem that perhaps in view of the fragile nature of these mixer taps it would be wise to install stopcocks, not that it would do you any good if your not home to turn them off.
Can't find any legislation for vic, jacksin can you elaborate!
Found an Interesting article on various aspects of plumbing with copper.
http://www.copper.com.au/uploaddir/documents/CDA_Prof_Plumbing_Skills.pdf

[silkwood]

I sell plumbing as well as other building products. Seems to me everybody here is right (in some way). Budget mixers generally rely on the fact that, after three years, you can't find the receipt and will have to buy a new one. On the other hand quality gear like Hansa or Grohe will (usually) last for years.

Fitting stopcocks (not a regulation here in SA) is a great idea, and reducing flow to a cheaper mixer will increase its life expectancy. I'm not a lover of ceramic disc repair kits, I refuse to sell them nowadays as too many simply don't do the job. For the record I have just moved into my new house and have a combination of mixers and ceramic washer levers.

PS asking a plumber is usually the best idea, but don't forget they have their biases too. All too many will tell you the only product is Caroma (Dorf etc) and mixers are a disaster. Familiarity often breeds narrow mindedness.

Cheers,

[Jacksin]

Fitting stopcocks (not a regulation here in SA) is a great idea, and reducing flow to a cheaper mixer will increase its life expectancy.

Well now I cant remember if its a regulation or a recommendation for the stopcocks, but either way its because of the maintenance aspect. I believe high water pressure can indeed lead to a shorter life expectancy. However pressure cant be regulated by closing stopcocks only flow can.