Sealing Gaps in floorboards - Taffy ?

[Jane C]

Hi we have an old home with jarrah boards. There are huge gaps approx 2-6 mm in the boards. We are getting them sanded and polished and the guy said there is nothing we can really do about the gaps. I noticed back in 02 Taffy put grout/ or gap sealer in his. If you are out there Taffy how do they look now? also what brand of grout or gap sealer did you use. If anyone else has any other ideas let me know. Thanks

[Gumby]

It has to be a hard drying filler, not a flexible kind so I'd be looking at Timbermate (at Bunnings etc). I used it on some very small gaps when our new floor got put down and some boards shrunk slightly. 2-6mm is a heck of a gap though so try a small section first.

[glock40sw]

G'day.
Sika make a product called Sikaflex.
It comes in different colours that can closely match some species of hardwoods.

If you have 2-6mm gaps in an old floor, this may be the best bet.
It would compress when the floor expands and stretch when it contracts.

Or you could use a contrasting colour that would give the Boat deck look of caulking between the boards.

[Gumby]

G'day.
Sika make a product called Sikaflex.
It comes in different colours that can closely match some species of hardwoods.

If you have 2-6mm gaps in an old floor, this may be the best bet.
It would compress when the floor expands and stretch when it contracts.

Or you could use a contrasting colour that would give the Boat deck look of caulking between the boards.

But surely a flexible sealant would form a buldge if the boards expanded and break away or form a dip if they contract. I could be wrong but i doubt that it would work,

[elphingirl]

We just had the floor sanded professionally, and the guy used Timbermate on end joins and small holes, but said if you put it down the long gaps it will vibrate out. From using it in other areas, I can testify it does get brittle over time - I don't think it would be great with lots of vibration/movement.
Cheers, Justine

[boban]

Just hose the floor

[maglite]

Why bother, the same happened to us and we have put it down to character.
In most cases real old boards will never match wether it be gaps or color.

Sure the crevices accumulate dirt etc but all we do is vaccum the floors, that gets the crap out.

[glock40sw]

But surely a flexible sealant would form a buldge if the boards expanded and break away or form a dip if they contract. I could be wrong but i doubt that it would work,

Gumby old mate.

If it is a really old floor, there will be buggerall movement in it.

Floors that have aged (10 to 15 years) develop a memory and will ussualy not have the same amount of movement as a new floor.
Older floors were typicaly air dried, thus adding to their stability.

[Gumby]

Gumby old mate.

If it is a really old floor, there will be buggerall movement in it.

Floors that have aged (10 to 15 years) develop a memory and will ussualy not have the same amount of movement as a new floor.
Older floors were typicaly air dried, thus adding to their stability.

Maybe so Trev me old buddy :D but I'll stick to my guns (metophorically speaking of course ;) ). It would still be soft on the surface and you wouldn't get it smooth.

maybe we should have a poll ? :D

[mic-d]

I just sealed up about 3sqm of a shot edge deck with sikaflex and I think it is the right product for the job if handled correctly. You have to mask each side of the gap and tool it off then immediately remove the masking tape. What to tool it off with might be a process of trial and error tho. For the deck I just used my finger and it gave a slightly depressed but very neat smooth finish. Now I can't for the life of me remember which sikaflex it was, but it wasn't Pro or the other one in the orange cartridge, it was in a black cartridge and seemed to give a cleaner break when lifting up the tape, not stringy.

Cheers
Michael

[Dusty]

Best bet, learn to love the gaps.

As already pointed out, all of the filling methods have specific downsides that make it hardly worth the effort.

Although, due to the age of the property you could exercise the idea of gluing fillets of timber into the gaps, particularly the six millimetre ones, prior to sanding and finishing.

Clint.

[jimc]

the last old floor I had polished, I filled the gaps with resin.
The floor sander cut the resin back to height and in the process of sanding with finer grits, was polished to look like glass infills.

One tip though is to get under the worst gaps and cover with masking/duct tape.

regards

[Carpenter]

It will look better filled, & most definetly use a flexible caulking. I'm a big fan of Polyurethane joint/gap fillers but have not seen it used in this situation (enquire with the manufacturer about the suitability of its use in this situation). Maybe someone else will have some experience of a product to use. I would also suggest going to the trouble of digging out & vacuuming the accumulated grit between the boards before caulking. The flooring contractor won't do this but it will be a much better job if you do.

[Jane C]

Thanks for your help everyone. Carpenter, I will give it a go ! have started filling with no more gaps in brown. My mission is to do 3 a day and hopefully they will take the friction from the sanding disk and not pull out when he sands it. It has to look better than it does now, considering we have 2 kids and a cat that likes to vomit ! :)

[Gumby]

Please report back Jane, because for the life of me i can't see how any flexible sealer will give you a satisfactory result. I'd be interested to know if it does.

[soundman]

This has been mentioned before But we havnt heard back on the results.

I know that most of the post war housing commission houses where I grew up had plane square edge boards ( no t&g) & the gaps went all the way thru.
Yo gota fill the gaps unless you like distributed floor ventilation.
I have seen a floor that was done, pine boards & black filler with cleer estipol.
Looked great.
This was done many years ago pre no more gaps so I'm not sure what they would have used.
My money would go to one of the high end sealers.
Flexibility would be imperitave or the floor would just spit it out.
A bit of dip & bulge would be a minor detail in the greater scheme of things, I don't recon the vertical profile of the sealer would change much.

cheers

[Carpenter]

STOPPPPPPPP! Don't use no more gaps. Its not designed to fill gaps that big & still perform. You need a specialised caulking compound that will fill gaps & still move, no more gaps is a cheap ####ty product that should not be used for anything other than filling small gaps/cracks in paint work. I can just about guarantee it will shrink back & fail.

[glock40sw]

I've said it before, And I'll say it again...


SIKAFLEX

I've seen it used and cannot recommend it high enough !

[mic-d]

STOPPPPPPPP! Don't use no more gaps. Its not designed to fill gaps that big & still perform. You need a specialised caulking compound that will fill gaps & still move, no more gaps is a cheap ####ty product that should not be used for anything other than filling small gaps/cracks in paint work. I can just about guarantee it will shrink back & fail.
I've got to agree carpenter, I think it will be a waste of money too. polyurethane is the way to go if you must fill it eg sikaflex.

Cheers
Michael

[Gaza]

no more gaps will not cure for ages so when the floor sander runs over it the edge will grab and it will be pulled out and go every where.

sika is the go or equal product. (me think i saw a polyurthane version under the no more gaps brand name but it was approx 15 bucks ea)

[soundman]

Both selleys and bostic do a poly sealer similar to one of the sicaflex products.
I thnk the selleys product still bears the no more gaps brand with some sort of premium tag.

I can certainly testify that no more gaps does sag substantialy if laid in thick and can take days to go off.

The polly sealers certainly go off better.

cheers

[BobL]

Jane, We have an 85 year old house in South Perth with all polished jarrah floors including the floors in a 10 year old extension. The gaps between the boards sound as though they are about the same as yours. Can I ask how variable your board colours are? I thought about using the brown no more gaps solution on a small section of the timber but the problem for us was that our jarrah flooring is quite variable in colour - very dark brown, to orange brown, salmon pink and the occasional streak of sap wood. In our passage way the boards had been covered for half a century with glued down floor tiles. Getting these up requried the use of a flat blade shovel. What remained behind in the gaps was a dark brown rubbery kind of stuff that looked like brown no more gaps. I though about leaving it there but it just looked wrong so I spent 1/2 a day scraping the stuff out of the cracks with the edge of a screwdriver. Also the floor polisher guy said it would gum up his sanding belts and he would have to charge us for extra belts.

In the last 10 years we've learned to live with the gaps, and scratches, and the patching where the the roughly cut pest inspection hatches were cut by a wood butcher. We vacuum and then lightly mop our floors with water, a couple of capfuls of metho and the makings from a couple of tea bags (the tannins apparently kill dust mite). Stuff doesn't seem to be accumulating in the gaps. Oh and BTW we have a dog that gets so excited when we come home in the evening it often vwomits. The floor and gaps clean up fine with a mop and toothbrush with all bar one row of bristles cut off.

Maybe you should try a section before you do the whole lot?

[Jane C]

Thanks everyone. I have done about 3sqm of the no more gaps and it is the biggest pain in the bum to do so I am already thinking about giving up. You are right that it takes ages to go off. This is day three and it is only just hard, however it does look a lot better than it used to. My floor sander guy said that i shouldnt use any product with silicone in it as the polyurethane will not stick to it. Does sikaflex have silicone in it ? Also will sikaflex be easier to apply or will it be about the same as the no more gaps ?.
Bobl, A house in South Perth hey! you lucky thing. Our boards sound a lot darker than yours. I did use the brown no more gaps and it matches quite well. Maybe a bit lighter than the boards.
I just cant believe that there is no product out there designed for this job. I am leaning toward the sikaflex providing it comes in a brown colour.

[Jane C]

He He, I must not have had my thinking cap on. So sikaflex is polyurethane ? is that right.

[Jane C]

I have read and re read and I am def going to use sikaflex now. I will try and find the one in the black cartridge and I like the sound of using masking tape on either side it sounds easier than trying to wipe it off without dipping into the middle. Should bunnings sell it ?

[mic-d]

G'day Jane
Firstly Sikaflex is polyurethane based and paintable, definitely no silicone in it. You might be limited in the colours tho' AFAIK there is only white, black, sandstone and grey. Sikaflex is probably a little harder to apply and its only turps cleanup so careful where you get it. You might want to try tooling it off with a paint scraper/putty knife dipped in turps. If you mask (and you should) make sure you press the tape down well so it does not bleed under the tape.You will be able to get it at Bunnings.
Goodluck

Cheers
Michael

[Carpenter]

Now you're on the right track Jane! Dig out that No More Gaps & do it again in the Polyurethane (Sikaflex). Don't bother with masking, the sander will take off the excess. Just make sure you fill the gaps to the top of the board, even a bit over, because it will look better if the caulked join is sanded flush with the timber at the sanding stage. You can get the Sikaflex in black, brown, white that I know of, its spendy (you get what you pay for) but you could maybe save if you purchase by the box. Its a lot thicker than no more gaps & so is heavier to use. Get a good quality caulking gun for this job, also it will flow a lot easier if its warm - leave it out in the sun before use.

[soundman]

A good cauking gun.... I'd bee looking for some help from compressed air if I had that many cracks to fill.
little compressor and a pneumatic caulking gun. Ohh yeah baby.
That is unless you wish to change your name to Agrippa.

cheers

[Jane C]

Mic-D, Carpenter, you guys are great. I am full with motivation now and will go and get the sikaflex tommorrow. If I am going to spend this long filling gaps I want it to last. Do you really think I dont have to tool off the excess ? because that would be fantastic, I am finding that the hardest part. Soundman what is this compresser you are talking about, I am all for spending money to make my life easier. Should I just go to bunnings and ask for a pneumatic caulking gun ? , Is there such a thing or are you having me on !!

[glock40sw]

G'day.
No, They are not having you on.:D

You would be able to hire a compressor and possibly the air assist chalking gun fron your local hire place. Why buy something you will probably use once?

Just make sure that the gun is compatable with the Sikaflex cartridge or Sausage.

[mic-d]

Sorry Jane, it hadn't clicked you were sanding afterwards, so forget the masking and tooling as others have said. The powered caulking gun is the way to go... I haven't used one, but its pretty hard work pumping out rows and rows of caulk as you've discovered:)

Cheers
Michael

[Gaza]

the powered gun is a over kill in this case, the feed rate will be to high and this will mean lots of waste. just get a really good manual one not a $5 job.

[Carpenter]

Hello again Jane, if you're deadset on going the powered option, have a look at this; http://panasonic.com.au/products/details.cfm?objectID=192
I don't know how serious you are about going down the road of automated caulking, but with this baby you could launch into a whole new enterprise! The boys are right though, you may find it hard going with the manual gun (not like us neanderthals...whats that discomfort?...who cares...whats that doc, RSI?....how did that happen?!!!). The poly is very heavy compared to no more gaps so either the air or cordless option could make a tough job easy, but if what Gaza says is true about air, then the cordless may be the best solution. Its a lot of coin, but I suppose you could buy it, do the floor then sell it on ebay when you're finished. I always recon buying, using then selling is better than hiring stuff thats usually buggered, & you can take you're time.

[Jane C]

Carpenter, that looks great and I am sold already. It is expensive but I will just factor it into the total cost of getting the whole lot sanded and polished and forget about it. You are right my hands are so sore already just by doing that little bit. Hopefully I will be able to get a bit back after, good idea about ebay. I am still trying to find brown sikaflex, so far I have only seen black and cream. Will let you know the end result. Thanks

[Jane C]

Hey, I just looked on ebay and there was a cordless caulking gun that I think may be simular to the other one and not so pricey. Will research more.

[Jane C]

Hi all,

Just to let you know the mammoth task of sealing is now over and the boards have been polished and they look sensational.

In the end I used a product called Fullers caulking in colour in warm brown, an exact match for thr jarrah. It took me 35 tubes !! and a very sore hand, I was going to spash out on the auto gun but my husband wasnt as keen, mind you he wasnt doing the job either !

I ended up taping up both sides of the boards and caulking the middle. It just got to messy to do it any other way.

The floor sander was amazed at the result and hopefully now it will last. Even if I get 3 yrs out of it i will be happy.

Thanks for everyone's info.

Jane

[soundman]

Pictures jane lets see some pictures:D

[Larry McCully]

WOW, all of this advice over some gaps.........3 pages of it all. Its all simple, There is two ways you can go about your gap problem.
1/ As trevor stated by using a product called sikoflex pro 2hp. It does come in different colours, but i found that they are limited and i to be quiet honest havent had much succes with the colour matching. You could use a pourable pro2hp and mix into it paint tint to get a chance of getting a colour match, and then trowl on the solution using a rubber squeegee, but that process is not to be attempted by the layman. It can get very messy so i dont recomend that. It would work though, and you will need to get the floor sanded and re coated. IT does bulge in summer months, The boards do close up and compresses the compond up protruding above the boards, your feet will feel these bulges. I have done it a couple of times and i would not rush into using it again on the larger gaps. However i would trowl fill the floor with a timbermate compond. It is expensive so a alternitive is by buying some plaster of paris powder , some paint tint... Burnt umber and red oxide and yellow oxide in liquid form. You can buy this tint from a paint shop. you need to match the mix to the colour of coated timber floor and not the bare timber. depending on the sq area you will need 3 or 4 kilo of powder. take the powder and add the base colour first. If it is a red timber , put in redoxide first, only a little as red is a strong colour, then you may need to darken it down with burnt umber, experament with a small mix first to get a match, then if your happy with the colour, make up a bigger batch at one thirds of the totat amount need. This prevents it from hardening before you use the lot. Using a rubber bladded trowl, simular to the one tylers use to trowl in grout. You will need to do this process at least twice. First time make it to the consistance of a runny custard, you want it to run to the bottom of the gap. You want it to fill the gap and not just bridge across the gap. Allow it to dry and sand it of. It is best to do this process at the first cut stage of the floor sanding. After that is done you will see that it has saged into the gaps, The gaps are only half full, You then repeat the process using the same colour mix as before. MIx the tint and powder together using a mixing paddle on the end of a varable speed drill, you need a compete blending. trowl on the second mix, wait for it to completly dry and then continue on with the rest of the sanding. This process will work, i promice you, and it will last for obout 7 years. The coating you put on the floor binds the mix and unless you have excessive board flex when you walk on it , will hold for a long time, next time you get the floor sanded again you may need to repeat this process and get the same results. It works dispite what the other sanders say. But you do need to do a double fill and not just the one.

[MelbSander]

If you have messy kids and vomiting cats it might be best to invest in lino.:D

[glock40sw]

Sell the kids into slavery and shoot the cats...:D :D :D

[Carpenter]

Heh Larry, I dont doubt you're superior knowledge & experience in this department, but your story of polyurethane bulging tells me that if there's that much movement,you need a product that will cope with such a high degree of movement....polyurethane! It's sure gonna last more than 7 yrs, & so what if you can feel it under your toes. Beats doing it all again in my books.

[Larry McCully]

The best solution is to do a two stage fill using either timbermate or a mixture of plaster of paris and paint tint . you all might think it is crazy , but it works. But it has to be done in two steps. if you use timber mate, itr has to be thined down to the consistancy of runny custard. Same with the plaster of paris. Some contractors use cornice cement and mix in paint tint to get a match with the timber colour. Depending on the species will depend on the tint colour. The first stage is trowled into the joints using a rubber bladed trowl, much like the ones that tilers use to trowl in grout. The first application allows the mix to penertrate to the bottom of the joints, it then gets sanded of with the 40 grit or 60 grit paper the contractor will use, after he has completed that sand, you need to apply a second trowling and fill the rest of the joint, this time using a slightly thicker mix. This way you will not get shrinkage, at the whole joint is filled. This method is succesfull and will get you through untill the next resand of the floor years later. Most floor guys dont like filling, because they only put one fill down and not two. What happens is that the fill can bridge the gap and not penertrate into it, and when you sand it off, a very thin layer is left, it looks like it is filled, but as soon as the first seasonal movement happens, it cracks and caves into the gap. You need to fully fill the gap. Go slow and blade the mix along the gap and not across it. The coating you put down will bind it all together. it is a cosmetic thing only. If you have a lot of flex in between the board then it will crack and when you vacumm the floor it wil go with the dirt. So your floor needs to be stable for this to work. Sika is a good product, But you experence a bulging at the joint in high humidity seasons. If you dont experence high humidity then sika PRO 2 HP is the answer. 600ml sauage and chaulk it in.

[Larry McCully]

Heh Larry, I dont doubt you're superior knowledge & experience in this department, but your story of polyurethane bulging tells me that if there's that much movement,you need a product that will cope with such a high degree of movement....polyurethane! It's sure gonna last more than 7 yrs, & so what if you can feel it under your toes. Beats doing it all again in my books. True.....i can remember filling some gaps on some houses on hamilton island in north queensland, we filled gaps about 3 to 4 mm apart. i was surprised just how high the compond extruded above the surface, even to the point that the builder asked us to sand it of so that the client would not feel it. ever since then i have favoured the trowl mix system on wider gaps and use sika on thinner ones, or standard timbermate out of the tin.

[soundman]

Don't shoot the poor little pussys.:eek:








Youll ruin a good pair of slippers.:D

[ashton13]

Hi - I'm hoping I can resurrect this thread and that the OP is still listening. I would love to find out how the Sikaflex held up long-term? I am renovating a 1901 house in Brooklyn NY. It has the original pine floors, but lots of significant gaps (some 10mm+). The flooring contractors I've spoken with just shake their heads and say there's nothing that can be done - that anything they'd do would crack and come loose over time - but I'm convinced there must be an outside-of-the-box solution.

[rwbuild]

The flooring contractors know what they are talking about, 10mm gaps is just too big to bog up and too small to fit timber fillets into.