Wood heater not burning properly ??

[masterblaster]

How is ya guys.
We have a Norsman inbuilt wood heater ,3 speed fan , 20 yrs old [ guess ] .
Sometimes it throws out so much heat we need to open doors . Other times we can get any heat at all out of it , more often the later .
Has anyone got any idea as to how to get it running consistantly or what might be wrong with it ?
Doesn't seem to be the type of wood as we chuck on all sorts and it seems to roar drawing when it's firing . lt just either heats really well or it doesn't , abit like me it all seems to depend on how it feels on the day !
Cheers.
MB.

[ptc]

Get the flue swept.
bet it goes well on windy days.
No wind no heat.

[ozwinner]

The easiest way to clean the flue is to drop a length of rope down the flue, attatch some chicken wire to the top bit of rope. ( you did leave some out the top, and not drop the whole rope down the flue didnt you? :D ).

Go inside and pull the chicken wire down, job done.

As PTC has said windy days make it draw better, IMHO it has nothing to do with a blocked flue, if its blocked smoke will bellow out into you room.
Windy days just make it burn better.

We get the same situations here, it might be the wood, some loads of wood definatly burn better.

Al :)

[masterblaster]

Thanks for that.
Not a bad cleaning idea Al , didn't wanna lash out on a brush .
Anyway l took it all to bits this morning see if l can find any other prob's so l'll clean it all inside out while l'm at it and see if it helps .
Al are they a good heater though ?
Only been here 6 mths so we haven't been through a winter with it yet !
Noticed once l had everything of it it's virtually just a free standing heater with a casing added to fit in the wall . Bloody tempting to take it right out and freestand it instead , should get heat then what do you think ?

Cheers
MB

[woodbe]

Use seasoned, dry wood.

If it works good some days and not others, eliminate as many variables as you can, record those you can't (wind speed and direction)

I think the biggest problem people have with combustion heaters is using green wood and not ever getting a decent fire going. Usually results in a chimney fire down the track as all the tar etc deposits in the chimney, and one day the whole lot goes up.

We gave it away because of the difficulty in getting good wood, and the choking stink in the neighborhood from ours and others fires. If you enjoy a morning or evening walk in winter, you will know what I mean, somedays all the smoke seems to decend to ground level and combine with the moist air in a way that leaves an obnoxious sooty smell about the place...

woodbe.

[ozwinner]

Al are they a good heater though ?
MB

Cant help you there sorry, we have had wood heating one way or another for years.
We got the gas connected last year, but when I priced appliances I nearly fell over.
$2500 for a gas log lookalike. :eek: Then the plumber etc.

We'll stick with wood I think..

Al :)

[GraemeCook]

Hi All This is my first post, but we've had wood fires for the last fifty years plus, so I hope I've learned something.

IMHO the cause of the Norseman burning unevenly is most likely due to:

* Either, smoke/air is not getting out properly due to unclean flue,

* Or, fresh air not getting in easily due to build up of fine white wood ash behind air inlet vents.

The latter is the most likely and is awkward to fix due to poor visibility and poor access to inside of air vents.

First you must unclip all external covers to maximise access to the innards of the heater. We made a thin nozzle extension for the vacuum cleaner and poke it through the vent holes. We also use a piece of wire to dislodge caked ash, push some ash into firebox and move other ash within reach of vacuum. We have also used compressed air to blow ash into firebox.

Remember ash is very light and messy.

Hope this helps

Graeme

[Auld Bassoon]

We have also used compressed air to blow ash into firebox.

Remember ash is very light and messy.

Graeme

I'd imagine that using compressed air would probably clean out the heater, but wouldn't it create a #####-storm of ash all through the room, and likely adjacent ones too :eek: :D

[woodbe]

Oh, yes. I forgot about the mess while I was reminiscing about how romantic it was to watch the flames through the glass while sipping on a nice vintage port and feeling all cosy and warm.

Thank god for reverse-cycle...

woodbe.

[masterblaster]

Thanks Graem l reckon your onto something . Tomorrow we'll vac through those vents while it's in bits .
Hey Al yeah we got a nice gas heater given to us so it's just sittin here right now . First the plumber costs and then we are on bottle gas which they reckon use easy a bottle every 3 wks to a mth- $80 bucks , so it's still sitting there .

Now this is gonna confuse things but Woodby what do you think of reverse cycle and how much does that cost to run ?
This house has the wiring and holes all ready for reverse cycle because they took it out when we bought the house.Thier's was an old rattler so we didn't want it when they tried to charge us an extra 2 grand to leave it in .We thought there's no way they'll take that out and thought we'd get it for nothin anyway but the bugars took the lot .
cheers.
MB







Hi All This is my first post, but we've had wood fires for the last fifty years plus, so I hope I've learned something.

IMHO the cause of the Norseman burning unevenly is most likely due to:

* Either, smoke/air is not getting out properly due to unclean flue,

* Or, fresh air not getting in easily due to build up of fine white wood ash behind air inlet vents.

The latter is the most likely and is awkward to fix due to poor visibility and poor access to inside of air vents.

First you must unclip all external covers to maximise access to the innards of the heater. We made a thin nozzle extension for the vacuum cleaner and poke it through the vent holes. We also use a piece of wire to dislodge caked ash, push some ash into firebox and move other ash within reach of vacuum. We have also used compressed air to blow ash into firebox.

Remember ash is very light and messy.

Hope this helps

Graeme

[woodbe]

Now this is gonna confuse things but Woodby what do you think of reverse cycle and how much does that cost to run ?

Well, it's very quiet, clean, and convenient. We just set an upper and a lower temperature, and the system does the rest. Once every month or so, I drag the filter out of it and hose the dust out of it. It's very impressive. Did I mention it is very clean yet? If not, it's very clean. It removes dust, not adds dust.

Anyway, ours is a big ducted system that uses water pumped around underground instead of the air outside. I think they call it 'geothermal heat pump' they reckon it gets a 5:1 output:input ratio versus a 3:1 for the air interchange systems. It seems to keep the place a comfortable temperature, but unfortunately there is no outlet in the workshop :(

Cost to run? Heaps, but it IS a big house. When we installed it, we had a quote for ducted gas heating that was going to cost more to run than we are paying for heating AND cooling now, per year. That was 10 years ago. So we are getting the cooling for free...

These days, we'd probably go for several of those split systems with the confusing remote controls and regular breakdowns. I hear that the efficiency of them has improved out of sight, but there is no direct comparisons available so it might just be marketing-speak.

Anyway, I guess this is a long way of saying that there is no easy way of comparing burning wood with reverse cycle, but if you record how much wood you burn in a year, you might be able to make an informed decision about your own situation. Bear in mind that the electricity you use in a reverse cycle system probably comes from a coal-fired generator, so who knows what the bottom-line efficiency really is :)

Hope I haven't confused you, I know I am... :D

woodbe.

[scooter]

MB, my sister's house in Horsham had a Norseman built in woodheater and it was a ripper, belted the heat out.

We have an inbuilt Coonara with a pretty long flue, I find it can be a bugger sometimes to get it to draw when lighting it. I just get the newspaper & kindling set up in the firebox, then push a couple of sheets of newspaper in above the baffle. Light the couple of sheets first, then the main fire. The sheets burn up quickly and get the column of air in the flue moving upward, and the fire starts better and gets it drawing straight away.

Works for us, hth.....cheers......Sean, love woodheating, hate chasing wood

[GraemeCook]

I'd imagine that using compressed air would probably clean out the heater, but wouldn't it create a #####-storm of ash all through the room, and likely adjacent ones too :eek: :D

You are absolutely right, Steve

Ash is difficult to remove from inlet vents. To minimise mess in inside the house we closed the firebox door and held rags around the compressed air nozzle and heater inlet vent - partially effective. However, a "snow storm" went up flue and all over roofs, gardens, etc. Neighbours are still wondering who donnit.

Cheers

Graeme

[GraemeCook]

Anyway, ours is a big ducted system that uses water pumped around underground instead of the air outside. I think they call it 'geothermal heat pump' they reckon it gets a 5:1 output:input ratio versus a 3:1 for the air interchange systems.
woodbe.

Thanks Woodbe.
We have been looking at installing a ducted heat pump and have been impressed by the efficiency and quietness of geothermal units. However there is not a lot of information in Australia on domestic size units.

Could you provide any information or leads that may assist in our information gathering process and eventual decision. For example, what brand do you have, who are its competitors, frank opinions, etc.

Basically I am getting tired of chopping firewood, spiders and ash, and of retreating into two rooms in winter.
* LPG is too expensive and inconvenient,
* Natural gas is not available yet where we live,
* Conventional electricity is expensive to run,
* Underfloor heating is not compatible with wooden floors,
* Split unit heat pumps are visible, noisier and cost the same as ducted once you heat more than three rooms.

Any advise or insights will be much appreciated.

Incidentally, I have read that in Sweden the COP (efficiency) of 8 has been reached for geothermal heat pumps coupled to a hydronic in-house system (heated pipes in a concrete floor). Incredible.

Cheers

Graeme

[woodbe]

Well, it's a long road you are looking down...

We lucked onto our system by sniffing around the Energy Information Service here in Adelaide when we decided we needed heating (we had none when we moved in, previous owner was a martyr or something). Anyway, after giving them the plans and aspect of the dwelling, the EIS gave us a list of possible options and where to get them. Top of every list was geothermal, but they gave no contact. When we asked why, the response was "no-one will pay for them, because they are too expensive"

Having a large home, and wanting to stay long term, we decided to see how much more it was, and if it would payback over a few years. The story checks out, and we bought one. At the time, the extra cost of geothermal versus normal heatpump was something like 30%, and the payback on that was quoted at 3-5 years. Frankly, we have no idea if we achieved payback because we have nothing to compare against, but I believe we are better off than if we went for the normal heatpump, and it's certainly cleaner and a lot less hassle than a slow combustion heater.

Last I spoke with the dealer, he said that their main market in Australia has turned out to be commercial systems and large developments where the AC is planned from the ground up, like apartment buildings etc. Joe Average homeowner has basicly rejected the concept in favor of the quick fix split system. (can't really blame them for that, it's a lot of work to plan a geo system)

In the US, you can buy geothermal AC units and install them yourself, just like you can do a split unit here if you have a mind to. They do stuff like throw the 'loop' (the water loop that exchanges the heat) in a local lake or river, which would probably be illegal here.

Our system lives down in the basement, and our loop is installed in a series of bore-holes drilled into the rock under our back yard.

This is the mob in the US that made it:

http://www.waterfurnace.com/content.aspx?section=residential&page=rez

There are others. I don't know who sells them here now, lost track of them, sorry.

woodbe.

[masterblaster]

Thanks Woodbe great stuff , don't worry l'm always confused .
They say - although it depends on how much money 'they' have to waist l reckon but the latest reverse/c are very cheap to run , however much that is !

MB





Well, it's very quiet, clean, and convenient. We just set an upper and a lower temperature, and the system does the rest. Once every month or so, I drag the filter out of it and hose the dust out of it. It's very impressive. Did I mention it is very clean yet? If not, it's very clean. It removes dust, not adds dust.

Anyway, ours is a big ducted system that uses water pumped around underground instead of the air outside. I think they call it 'geothermal heat pump' they reckon it gets a 5:1 output:input ratio versus a 3:1 for the air interchange systems. It seems to keep the place a comfortable temperature, but unfortunately there is no outlet in the workshop :(

Cost to run? Heaps, but it IS a big house. When we installed it, we had a quote for ducted gas heating that was going to cost more to run than we are paying for heating AND cooling now, per year. That was 10 years ago. So we are getting the cooling for free...

These days, we'd probably go for several of those split systems with the confusing remote controls and regular breakdowns. I hear that the efficiency of them has improved out of sight, but there is no direct comparisons available so it might just be marketing-speak.

Anyway, I guess this is a long way of saying that there is no easy way of comparing burning wood with reverse cycle, but if you record how much wood you burn in a year, you might be able to make an informed decision about your own situation. Bear in mind that the electricity you use in a reverse cycle system probably comes from a coal-fired generator, so who knows what the bottom-line efficiency really is :)

Hope I haven't confused you, I know I am... :D

woodbe.

[masterblaster]

Thanks for the help guys.
Well she's firing after 2 days of cleaning of and out rusty and blocked bits .
Turned out the flue was not only 1/2 blocked but 1/2 hanging of up in the chimney , wouldn't have helped.
All the vents and ajustment things were blocked to and a plate inside at top was hanging off and down . She wasn't happy.
Well it's the first 12 % and pelting down day of the year today and she's humming away quite nicely, untill l run out of wood :mad: that is !
Nice and cosey to it really pelting it out actually , fan even works now !
thanks for that norseman to scooter, good to hear .
Might put in a new thread see what everyones paying to run their reverse/c's .
Cheers
MB

[masterblaster]

Just thought l'd let you know guys.
Norseman - she is good ! 2 days of the worst wind and weather l've seen here since l moved here at the moment and with 6 % today . The heaters been absolutely beutifull , quiet , smooth .
No howling or eratic burning and the heat it is throwing out yet it's only been set on an over night burn all day or it's too hot .
Most impressed .
Thanks for the help.
Cheers
MB

[Cliff Rogers]

The easiest way to clean the flue is to drop a length of rope down the flue, attatch some chicken wire to the top bit of rope. ( you did leave some out the top, and not drop the whole rope down the flue didnt you? :D ).

Go inside and pull the chicken wire down, job done.
....
Hey Al? Mate? How do I get the chook wire out of ma chimberley now? :confused:

[ozwinner]

Hey Al? Mate? How do I get the chook wire out of ma chimberley now? :confused:

Send a chicken in after it, why do you think they call it chicken wire?
Because chooks looooove it.

Al :D

[Cliff Rogers]

Hmmm.... Why did the chicken go down the chimberley?

To get to the... um.. er... to get to.... the... chicken wire???? :confused:

That's silly Al. :(

How do you get the chook out once it has eaten the chicken wire?:rolleyes:

[ozwinner]

You send in the Wirey Terrier. :rolleyes:

Duhh.

Al :p

[journeyman Mick]

.................How do you get the chook out once it has eaten the chicken wire?:rolleyes:

Simple,
fire up stove and roast chook!:D
Then of course you'll need to do something about all the feather residue in the flue....................:rolleyes:

Mick

[Cliff Rogers]

You send in the Wirey Terrier. :rolleyes:

Duhh.

Al :p

& how do you get the Terrier out?

(There was an old woman who swallowed a fly, I don't know why she swallowed a fly, perhaps she'll die)

[Cliff Rogers]

Simple,
fire up stove and roast chook!:D
Then of course you'll need to do something about all the feather residue in the flue....................:rolleyes:

Mick

OK Mick, I'm gunna asked you the same question.... :D

How do you get the chook out of the chimberley? :confused:

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Sprinkle a secret mix of herbs'n'spices down the chimley then fire it up.

Wait for the boys in blue to turn up with a summons for patent infringement; it's their problem how they get the evidence. :rolleyes:

[journeyman Mick]

Cliff,
as you roast the chook it shrinks somewhat, this, coupled with the removal of its feathers by singeing makes it small enough to pull through the flue damper.:D

Mick

[Cliff Rogers]

I am NOT going to eat it if it has been through the fire damper... especially if it has just eaten Al chicken wire fence. :eek:

[masterblaster]

Got it.
Dunk the cat into some nice sauces , light the fire , tie rope to cats tail , send cat up after the chicken [ who also has firm grip on the chicken wire ] . Bake the lot until golden brown then pull on rope .

[Cliff Rogers]

How do you NOT burn the rope? :confused:

[GraemeCook]

Thanks Woodbe.

Waterfurnace do have an interesting and detailed website - useful. I did not know about them but I had got data from several European and Canadian sources.

Geothermal seems to have a lot of advantages provided one can install the outside pipes for a reasonable cost, plus there is a risk in being a local pioneer.

Am still looking for more Australian information and suppliers so if anyone out there can help, then please do.

Thanks

Graeme

[masterblaster]

How do you NOT burn the rope? :confused:

Dunno , haven't figured that part out yet :rolleyes: !!!!