Fence problems

[Tiger]

Dear all,

Was summoned to my mother's place where she was upset about her fences. I'd known they were in bad shape but now they require action. The easier of the two is your standard paling fence. This was put in less than 5 years ago. At least one of the posts has rotted at the base and there is a terrible lean. Also, a number of palings have warped and made nailing difficult. I can't believe this fence contractor actually takes money for what he's done there. The posts are Redgum, no idea what the palings are. As a temporary fix, would a star picket or two straigten the post for a while until we can afford to put up another fence as a couple of other posts lean as well. This is a corner block and she also has a picket fence which has had it. What are the cheap alternatives to a picket fence that you've seen used. Obviously we could plant some flowers etc. but what sort look okay for a fence line. I don't mind putting in a new picket fence but it would be a slow process for me as there are a number of posts and I have to wait as money becomes available. Can you fasttrack a fence by using big gaps between posts etc. If we go for a picket fence, it will be a low fence. Any thoughts appreciated.

[mic-d]

Hi Tiger,
There is a plant called Duranta "Aussie 2000" which is a very fast growing hedge and screening plant that might be suitable as a border. Look it up on google to see if it is climatically OK. Star pickets would be OK for a temp fix but they are a bugger to remove unless you jack them out. You could also use a timber stay for a temp measure.
Digging out an old fence and replacing it with a new one is a labour intensive job, so don't skimp for the sake of saving a bit on materials. Keep posts at 2400 centres and use 3 rails for 1200 and higher fences. Mount the rails on the posts with a 75mm gal batten screw. I don't like to check them in, it encourages rot and takes longer. I would use CCA hardwood fence grade posts if you cement them in, dome it around the base of the post and sit the post on a layer of gravel so its bottom dries out.

Goodluck
Cheers
Michaell

[jow104]

You ought to try your hand at skipping.;)
Went down to our local tip yesterday and felt like asking the totters for some of the furniture that was being dumped, I valued the hardwood at $100's of dollars.

[Tiger]

Mic-d,

Can you elaborate on a timber stay please?

[Simomatra]

Tiger
I think what Michaell is saying is to dig beside thexisting posts that are leaning an place a new short post in. This can then be bolted to the existing post and the fence brought upwright again. Do the cementing as Michaell says and use galvanised bolts

Hope this helps
Cheers Samhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ivan in Oz]

Hi Tiger,
Keep posts at 2400 centres and use 3 rails for 1200 and higher fences. Mount the rails on the posts with a 75mm gal batten screw.
Michaell
I'm there ATM.

Looking to go 50x50mm or 75x75mm Gal Posts,
and 50x25mm Rectangular section for the rails
Cheaper than 38x25mm..............:confused: Go Figure.
These will be in 8.ooo M lengths
Concreting Posts in, whenever the ground dries out [Gaping Cracks] all the posts move far to much:(
As for fence material.......That'll be a mixture of what's available & cheap.
Fence is in sections and can't see it all at the same time.

[Clinton1]

Tiger,
It might be worth checking out the heritage twisted wire decorative fencing. Emu wire Industries - Factory 2, Lower Papermill Road, Fyansford 3220 Phone: 03 5229 0505 a good hardware store or fencing supplier will know of it.
It is expensive, but when a short height roll is used on a wood frame it becomes quite reasonable. Cheaper than pickets when you add screws/nails, time, painting... Quite a step up from chicken mesh, and it is powder coated as well. The painted wire is not as good as the baked plastic coated or powder coated.
http://www.adbrush.com.au/images/heritage_wire_gate_2.jpg

If you match it with a hedge it looks very "Cottage garden".

I have not see too many Duranta's growing well in Melb, but that might be a matter of care or older varieties that are not real suited to Melb. In hotter climes it is an excellent hedge. If you don't mind a yearly hedge clip, try Correa Alba (grey leaf, white flower), which is a Melbourne native.
Your hedge will fast track if you sort out the soil, lots to cover there, so if you pm me details it might be better. Or use rosemary, lavendar, tea... lots of options.

For native plant info - http://farrer.riv.csu.edu.au/ASGAP/APOL24/dec01-6.html

I didn't check out the posts either. they are TP, so the checking just creates an entry 'wound', IMO. Hardwood posts suffer when checked as well.

[Tiger]

Thanks for the responses so far.

Had a look at the fences on the weekend and one post on the paling fence (the one supporting a gate) was in bad condition. One fair shove and it would have gone over. In desperation I put in a couple of star pickets, however one starting get in the way of where the gate would latch. Try as I did, I couldn't remove the second star picket. How the **** do you get them out, it feels loose but it won't come out of the ground, I'd say it's a good 700 mm into the ground. As mentioned previously, the post that has had it used to have a gate swing on it, would it be fair to say that the post should be at over 600 mm into the ground and wouldn't the fencing contractor know it (the fence is only a few years old) ? Also, no sign of any timber preservative at the bottom of the post.

The small picket fence has some of its posts set in concrete, just to complicate things, there is a small concrete path bordering some of the posts. Guess I'll have to break the concrete to gain access to soil so that I can set new posts. A crowbar would make too much damage, would an angle grinder fitted with the correct blade (?) be the proper tool to cut the bottom of the post concrete into a neat section? I haven't decided what I am going to do yet about replacing the fence, I'll consider the responses I get here, work out a budget and then do something. Thanks again for your thoughts.

[mic-d]

Thanks for the responses so far.
In desperation I put in a couple of star pickets, however one starting get in the way of where the gate would latch. Try as I did, I couldn't remove the second star picket. How the **** do you get them out, it feels loose but it won't come out of the ground, I'd say it's a good 700 mm into the ground.


Don't say I didn't warn you! Now unless you have a jack from an old Holden that you can fit into one of the holes (widened if necessary) or a drill bit big enough to fit a piece of concrete reo and jack it out with another type of jack you're almost fschked. I have remove them with a bar and chain but that is where they are out in the open and could twist the buggery out of them. Its maddening that they feel loose but grab when lifted, I know, but I've been there done that and you have my sympathy.


As mentioned previously, the post that has had it used to have a gate swing on it, would it be fair to say that the post should be at over 600 mm into the ground and wouldn't the fencing contractor know it (the fence is only a few years old) ? Also, no sign of any timber preservative at the bottom of the post.

The post may have been in the ground 600, but if its rotted, its rotted.


The small picket fence has some of its posts set in concrete, just to complicate things, there is a small concrete path bordering some of the posts. Guess I'll have to break the concrete to gain access to soil so that I can set new posts. A crowbar would make too much damage, would an angle grinder fitted with the correct blade (?) be the proper tool to cut the bottom of the post concrete into a neat section? I haven't decided what I am going to do yet about replacing the fence, I'll consider the responses I get here, work out a budget and then do something. Thanks again for your thoughts.
If the posts on the picket fence need a temporary fix, fix a dummy post to the concrete with a steel bracket and concrete anchors and then bolt the leaning post to the dummy in a straightened position. When it comes time to replace the fence, you may be able to lever the old posts out using a chain and a big lump of timber (like a 3m fence post).

Hope all this makes sense, I've had a hard day and a few beers
:D

Cheers
Michael

[jow104]

Why not place new posts at different centres and make a wider gate to get over the problem of matching the pathway.

[Sturdee]

Why not place new posts at different centres and make a wider gate to get over the problem of matching the pathway.


Much too logical John, and not in the Aussie way of doing it the hard way.:D


Peter.

[Tiger]

Mic-d I know you warned me and your words were ringing in my ears as I put the star picket in, but I was desperate and one decent push could have sent the whole thing tumbling down, thought it would be easier to put a star picket in (which I had on me, rather than another post which I would have had to get).

Going back to dealing with the posts with concrete around them, what tool do you guys use to break the concrete and get access to the soil so that you can dig a hole for the posts. I mentioned an angle-grinder but should I look at something else along the lines of a jack-hammer for example?

[Clinton1]

As John said, I would not cut the concrete to get to the posts, if possible.

If the path 'surrounds' the old post - remove the old post, smash, chip, prise and gouge out as much of the old rotted post as possible, then concrete over it.
Shift the posts out a bit and use those pre-cut steel framed gate frame kits (Fortress brand?) to make a wider gate. You can site the post right next to the edge of the path, just dig under the path so you can concrete the post in around all sides. The position of the post will only be moved as far as the path edge extends.

If the post is beside the footpath, and 3 sides are clear and its not an issue as you have access.

If you don't want to do that, use a crowbar and sledge if you have one. Or go all upmarket and hire a jackhammer.

Edit: how much does the concrete surround the post? If its only a small edge, whack it with a sledge and see what happens.

[mic-d]

A diamond wheel on an angle grinder will cut the concrete but you won't get very much penetration into the concrete. You will get a lot of dust. If you really must do it, I would score the concrete as deep as possible with the diamond blade to keep it neat and then dig with a jackhammer.
Cheers
Michael