why dont i take up self-immolation instead?

[doug the slug]

OK //rant mode on//

as many of you are aware i am chairman of our local community sports club. we had a board meeting tonight. this is where the self-immolation bit comes in. it would be easier to set yourself on fire and have it all over and done with than sit there and face a bunch of cretins pretending to hold the club's best interests at heart trying to pass decisions that would mean our financial demise in the very short term.

The club has a courtesy bus that is on its last legs and didnt pass the latest rego inspection, requiring at least $3000 in repairs. the bus isnt worth that much so it probably wouldnt be a wise move to spend that much on it. well the problem is that a majority of the board are hell-bent on spending about $30,000 on a new bus. the current bus brings an average of 3 people a day to the club that would not have found some other way of getting there anyway on the 3 days a week it runs. so how much would each of our extra 9 patrons a week have to spend to make buying a $30,000 bus viable considering that the bus would probably depreciate to a value of nothing over 4 to 5 yearas in our salt air climate.

What to do? do I resign and let them run the place into the ground or do i stay on and take them on head on?? I dont like baling out before completing the job i set out to do but im not into self-harm either. the community is relying on me to save their asset.

Comments are appreciated, im no masochist but im no quitter either, where do i draw the line?

//rant mode off//

[DavidG]

Write out a totally non emotional list of the pros, cons and the associated costing and forward it to each member of the club.

Quit before the next board meeting, get drunk, spend the clubs money, shoot through to the Bahamas (sp):D

[doug the slug]

......., spend the clubs money,......
The club doesnt have any money, the treasurer just thinks they do, thats half the problem, hang on, thats probably ALL the problem, apart from the fact we dont have any moneyhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif

[boban]

I've always said that you make changes from the inside, not from the outside. You have a fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of the club (based on what you believe they are) and that is why you hold that position. By quitting you might save yourself some grief but you would not be performing your role.

Take them on and make your position known to one and all. You will soon get a feel for what the members consider appropriate. Have a look at the Articles or Rules and see whether you can call an extraordinary meeting. You seem to be adamant about your beliefs. If you can support your beliefs with evidence or examples you may find it quite easy to convince the members and even some of your fellow board members.

Above all, dont make it personal. Play the ball no matter how hard that may be and you will gain the respect of most people, even if you are wrong.


Good luck Doug.

Give them hell.

[Sturdee]

So how much would each of our extra 9 patrons a week have to spend to make buying a $30,000 bus viable considering that the bus would probably depreciate to a value of nothing over 4 to 5 yearas in our salt air climate.



Doug,

Assuming that you borrow at 10 % over 5 years,and ignoring running cost as you have them already, each of those nine patron would need to provide an additional net profit of $ 19 per visit.

Again assuming that you work on a 10 % profit margin they will have to spend only an additional $ 209 per visit per patron.:eek:

As the patrons that use the bus dont drive, I presume that they are pensioners and won't provide the additional income needed, so it might be a better option to provide them each with taxi vouchers.


Peter.

[boban]

See Doug,

There's what you need, a numbers man. Good on you Sturdee.

[Wood Borer]

Doug,

Boban's advice was spot on as was Sturdee's. I am a committee member of a few organisations and sometimes people like the sound of their own voice at meetings. You can't always argue logically with them because they are on a little self righteous trip, idiots supporting each other with the loudest voice being the winner.

The cold facts spelt out professionally in a report may help both yourself, fellow committee members and the club make the best long term decision.

Hang in there mate - please do not quit, the club needs you badly at this time.

Remember if there had been a debate about whether the earth was round or flat a few hundred years ago, the committee would have declared it flat on account of their pooled ignorance. Maybe your committee would reach that conclusion today.:D

[Ashore]

Doug
Ask for volunteers from other members on the committee for at least 4 or 5 to set up a working group to investigate the costing , how to finance and the actual value of such a bus to the club, designating its running costs per month against income taking into account ongoing costs such as fuel rego servo's loan costs intrest etc as well as finding out the present bus value and to submit a written report at the next meeting, you of course can't be on such a body as you are automatic exempt as chairman as is the treasurer

A, people won't volunteer if it means work and committing something to writing
B, Getting 4 or 5 on such a committee will cause infighting and getting that many to agree on anything will be difficult
C, the actual figures may well convince them to drop the idea
D, such a report still goes before the meeting and you are no worse off but have a little more time and you can pick holes in it and any fault means it goes back to them to do again

Just make sure you set the guide lines of the report making it as difficult as possible and if you can't get enough people to volunteer then pospone any decision until enough do and a proper report is submitted to the meeting



Worth a try


Rgds

Russell

[doug the slug]

Doug,

Assuming that you borrow at 10 % over 5 years,and ignoring running cost as you have them already, each of those nine patron would need to provide an additional net profit of $ 19 per visit.

Again assuming that you work on a 10 % profit margin they will have to spend only an additional $ 209 per visit per patron.:eek:

As the patrons that use the bus dont drive, I presume that they are pensioners and won't provide the additional income needed, so it might be a better option to provide them each with taxi vouchers.


Peter.

i love your ability to number crunch like that, what would the figures be for this scenario? now if we repair current bus.........

bus runs 3 days per week, pensioner being paid $30 per day to run it. fuel costs $30 per week, other running costs and repairs a conservativbe $30 per week. assume bus brings 10 additional people to club per night (3 nights a week) We then spend $3000 repairing bus - how much do each of them need to spend to allow us to recover the $3000 in 2, 3, 4 or 5 years? at 10% profit, as before????

Thanks sturdee in anticipation of a reply

[Termite]

Then again you could sell tickets to your self immolation and raise the money that way. :rolleyes:

Tounge firmly in cheek.:D

[echnidna]

Doug,
There are numerous grants available for not for profit groups.
Set up a financial development sub committee whose role is finding money.

At a modest cost you can get a monthly newsletter listing all grants available in australia from government, corporate, philantropic societies etc.

For more info about this visit www.ourcommunity.com.au

[CameronPotter]

$3000 would be paid off fairly easily with that number of people.

Running costs: $150 a week.

Extra people to club: 30 people per week.

Thus, $5 per person per visit will pay for the running costs.

However, to pay off the $3000 it would be:

$2 per person per visit for a year...
$1 per person per visit for 2 years...

However, if you want to make a profit, then you can see you would need each person to contribute beyod these numbers.

ALSO, if you need to borrow the money, again the numbers increase.

Probably the best idea is to say, look at needing each person who is brought by the bus (who wouldn't have come otherwise) to spend $10 per person per visit.


ADDENDUM:
Earlier you said it was 9 people a week, now you say it is 10 people a night (at 3 nights). If you meant work on 10 people a week, those numbers should all be multiplied by three, meaning you would need about $30 per person per visit.

Cam

[Iain]

If there are any ex service people in the club, and I'm sure there would be, I'm pretty sure that Vet Affairs will give a grant.
We are looking at one for our pony club, the criteria is 3 or more ex active (theatre of war) servicemen (women), a local woodworking group managed to score about $12000.00, unfortunately I am not sure who the club were but it was in Melbournes Eastern suburbs.

[MurrayD99]

It sounds like crunch time for the transportation system. People (above) have suggested pros & cons lists, various funding sources and P&L-style calculations. I'd take all that material and put it into a 3 page "paper" with a recommendation at the bottom. Included in this, I guess the first question is "Why are we doing this?" and the next one is, "If we are going to continue to do it, what will it cost and how will it be paid for?" A few quiet telephone calls might gather support for a sensible outcome. Is a used vehicle an option?

[echnidna]

Why not spend the 3 grand on it until you can get a decent replacement.

[Zed]

foam at the mouth, go off! scream rant and rave! tell em what a bunch of prats they are! hit a random fool! use timber as a pursuader and then just quit, fark 'em. :D

[outback]

Zed does mount an impressive and pursuasive argument. :D

[doug the slug]

Is a used vehicle an option?

The one they want to spend $30,000 IS a used vehicle!!!!!


Anyway, thanks to all who have replied. from what everyone here are saying i can rest assured that its not me thats losing the plot. Its hard to be sure of that when you are sitting around the table with5 people wqho have!!!

I guess it goes to show that us woodies are practial, level-headed and solution-oriented people.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif

[MurrayD99]

The one they want to spend $30,000 IS a used vehicle!!!!! http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif

Dogsbreath! I was thinking $10k for a used runner..... $30k seems like a lot - market here is overflowing with used Jap imports. For $30k you'd get something near-new. Good luck anyway. :rolleyes:

[Termite]

I guess it goes to show that us woodies are practial, level-headed and solution-oriented people.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif
It was never in doubt.:rolleyes:

[Grunt]

Why don't you just flash your tits at them. I mean after all you have a great set.

[outback]

Grunt does mount an impressive and pursuasive argument.

[Sturdee]

Doug,


Given the previous criteria and the figures above each of the additional persons would need to spend per visit $ 68.20 over a 2 year term or $ 64.35 over 3 years or $ 62.70 over 4 years or $ 61.60 over 5 years.

These figures are substantially more than Cameron posted but his did not include the cost of the services provided to generate the additional net profit needed to cover these costs and the interest applicable.

However if you include the 3 members currently using the service as well as the 10 additional ones the figures reduce to $ 52.45 , $ 49.65, $ 48.23 and $ 47.38 respectively.

Hence it might be better to give the existing members a regular taxi voucher or consider buying a cheap preloved car to use as a courtesy vehicle. That would probably satisfy your committee's feeling about community obligations and as others have said appoint a committee to obtain a grant or business sponsorship.

BTW none of the above calculations include my fee as this one is pro bono.:D


Peter.

[Markw]

Doug
You have my sympathies :) :)

I was the secretary of a local kennel club of some 450 members and there are no others who are more ignorant, self absorbed and petty than those who show or to a lesser extent, trial dogs.

Our similar problem was a photocopier - repair, replace, rent or out-source the work.

I actually developed a business case for the copier replacement showing the pro & cons of various makes & models to repairing the current model to having the local Office Works print our club magazine. To cut to the chase the 3 weeks of after hours work including assessment of products, meeting reps etc etc was ignored cause the bit&h president would rather go to bl00dy Office Works and stated "who cares what it costs".

I resigned from my position and haven't looked back. Blood pressures coming down and I no longer care, no more arguements at home, no more wasting time seeking the support of idiots. It takes a while but in the end you realise that Life is better without the stress :) :) :) :) :)

Good luck in your outcome

BTW - For all your calculations on repairing the old bus, just remember that if its in such a bad state you may blow all the repair money if something else goes wrong a week after the repairs have been completed. Old machinery has a defined point where its no longer viable to continue with repairs, usually at about one to two thirds of the capital expenditure or a known mileage based on experience. When you reach this point you just have to bite the bullet and replace as the repair costs increase at an expotential rate.