Timber Flooring Gone Bad

[Gaza]

Check out these photo's this is brand new timber flooring in brand new units installed by so called "experts".

A greenie for any one who can pick 3 reasons why it failed. (industry experts no greenie for u)

[Sir Stinkalot]

No guesses but it is the worst brand new flooring .... and unit ..... that I have ever seen.

[namtrak]

Green timber?

Not fixed to the rafters?

Not enough air under the floor?

That's my shots

[bitingmidge]

Moisture. (in a word)

Either: too much and the timber was too dry, or a bucket load, and certainly no expansion joints along the edges!

Oh... and the secret fixings are very secret indeed? Like where are they?

Cheers,

P:cool:

[Rusty]

Flooring can be so parsnicketty...not given time to acclimatise on site? Slab not adequately cured (was it a slab? I can't check while I'm posting) or no room left for expansion? Or, worst of all, the flooring was not dried to the correct m/c for it's environment?

OK, I dunno.

Rusty.

P.S. God forbid they laid the floor before the roof and it got rained on...:eek::confused:

[Phil Mac]

What a dissapointment for all involved.

Having spent 7 years with flooring I have seen a number of situations like this,

Looks like an concete floor overlayed with battens and a T & G secret nail floor in an enclosed shed or garage, (concrete blocks on the right and is that Trimdeck sheeting on the other wall)

Where has the moisture on the sub floor come from????

If you want further comment, PM me with the questions

Phil

[namtrak]

oh, shouldn't there be bearers in there somewhere?

[Clinton1]

1. An idiot laid it.

2. Its been laid edge to edge against a solid block wall and its moved across the width. Nowhere for it to go but up in the middle.

3. Laid over a slab and theres no air movement.

Just guessing - how did I go?

[bitingmidge]

P.S. God forbid they laid the floor before the roof and it got rained on...:eek::confused:

Rusty,

Even that shouldn't have been a problem if the proper precautions had been taken.

In the good old days, when men were men and timber floors were made of timber, the floor was usually laid as a platform (much like it is now) although then, it was hardwood flooring.

Given a heavy dose of linseed oil with a splash of Terribine to dry it, it would then withstand a few months of whatever the weather had to offer, without a problem.

These days, people have just forgotten, (or never learned) the correct handling and installation procedures.

Cheers,

P
:cool:

[glock40sw]

Gaza.
Bloody hard to say from 2 poor pictures.

A. It looks as if it has been under water (flooding). Staining on top face.
B. There appears to be dirt in the subfloor space that will hold moisture.
C. Possible lack of expansion at sides of the floor area and lack of
intermediate expansion.
D. Possible water ingress under the floor due to water running down inside of wall from overflowing gutters.
E. Buggered if I can see any fixings (nails or staples).

I hope to christ it's not my flooring!!!!!!

Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor
Grafton

[Rusty]

...In the good old days, when men were men and timber floors were made of timber, the floor was usually laid as a platform (much like it is now) although then, it was hardwood flooring...

Cheers,

P
:cool:

I had heard of such things, but I thought it was only done up north where the ambient m/c was high anyway. When I was storing and distributing flooring (never laid a floor in my life) the boss would have kittens every time a cloud passed over, and I still get all in a tizzy about the product getting wet!

Cheers,
Rusty.

[ozwinner]

Ive seen similar bodgy jobs where the stumps have been plucked out of the ground due to movement.

Al :p

[RufflyRustic]

Let's see.

1. Green Timber
2. The pack was sitting out in the rain
3. The roof leaked just after it was laid.

Cheers
RufflyRustic

[bitingmidge]

When I was storing and distributing flooring (never laid a floor in my life) the boss would have kittens every time a cloud passed over, and I still get all in a tizzy about the product getting wet!

Rightly so too Rusty!

Trevor or Bruce may set me straight, but I don't believe that the product was kiln dried until the late 70's, and moisture content was a bit higher to start with.

Occasionally when a floor got REALLY wet, the edges of the boards would swell a bit, and the boards would shrink before finishing, leaving the occasional gap.

Rembember that floors were cramped tight, laid with 2" nails and punched off, then coated with the goo (slopped on with a mop). Time from floor down to roof on rarely exceeded two weeks, but I have seen them go for 8 weeks without too much trouble. (Note: too much!)

cheers,

P (everything old is new again!)

[glock40sw]

g'day All.

Midge. Yep. most hwd flooring was air dried at a mill close to where the dwelling was being built.
Around here, the local EMC runs at 15%-17%. So a platform floor laid as midge stated, would remain reasonably stable.

As would a floor sourced in townsville would also remain stable there. However, If a grafton AD floor was laid in townsville, all hell would break loose as Townsville EMC is around 21% to 25%.

Now that we produce KD flooring from 9% to 14%. platform construction is out.
If anyone uses my flooring for a platform it is on their own head. We have an info pack attached to each sling of flooring stating that platform construction must not be used. If the end user fails to read the info, that is their problem. As far as the law goes, We are covered by supplying the info.

So, if you want to platform, use yellow tongue. Once the roof is on, you can level sand the Y/T and use it as the subfloor.

Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor.
Grafton

[MICKYG]

Gaza,

It looks as if all the flooring and joists are sitting on the soil underneath the building, drawing moisture up into the building. Your pictures does not show any sub structure IE: brick pylons etc unless it is all sitting on a concrete slab. Not a builder here but its just a guess.

Regards Mike.

[ThePope]

You got any pics of these so called units, looks very odd to me...

[Gaza]

Ok ok some good work there, alot of people on this forum have great know edge.
The flooring is installed in a new unit 1 of 125, all of which are in a same state.
These are the issues that we found on inspection;
- No moisture barrier and slab was over 5.5% MC
- pine battens used
- pine battens not fixed to slab with mechanical anchors at regular intervals, they were nailed to noggins which were then shot with a ramset gun.
- flooring was glued with ridge construction adhesive (ie max bond, liquid nails etc)
- no mid span expansion gap and width of floor is about 8mts
- while this unit did have windows and a slab above the roof on the complex was not complete so when it rained water leaked down though whole building
- flooring was Kiln Dried by a large manufacture. (not one of the best but ok)
- all the flooring is being ripped out and replaced cost of rectifying and completion a cool 1.2 million. Oops

[echnidna]

hope the flooring is being dried again

[Clinton1]

So my No. 1 was right, but maybe not the others?