$554.40 to install new cistern inlet valve.

[rambunctious]

We should have a forum section titled Things That Leave You Gobsmacked

or maybe Has Someone Tried To Stitch You Up.

This is a quote $554.40 (service call to provide quote was $99.00 which supposedly is not charged if the quote is accepted) to supply and install a cistern inlet valve costing retail $55.00 + gst.

The way I see the break up of the quote is with all prices excluding gst

Valve $55.0

Initial service call $90.00 (yea sure it does not have to be paid but it has already been added to the quote)

Second service call to fit valve $90.00

Labour $269.00

GST $50.40

Total $554.40

All things being equal, I find a service call at $90.00 PLUS labour at $269.00 for 30 minutes work quite exorbitant.

What's your thoughts.

I am going to install a new fluidmaster valve tomorrow at $23.00

[aldav]

All too common these days. They prey on people who don't know any better. In the end there's not even a guarantee that they'll do a decent job, there are plenty of incompetents around. Fairly recent cases that I've had interaction with -
A friend who had two leaking toilets was charged $350 for the supply and installation of one new cistern and told by the plumber that he couldn't fix the other one. Like yours it needed a new inlet valve body. Replaced it for him for $50 including the valve body. Could the other toilet have been fixed - quite possibly.
Plumber who did the work on the daughters new ensuite couldn't stop water running in to the toilet bowl even after being called back twice to fix it. He hadn't centred the flush valve body in the base of the cistern so it didn't seal effectively. Fairly easily fixed.
Got a quote from an appliance repair guy to assess a problem with a fridge. Was quoted $125 + GST call out fee, he was advised the address he had to attend. Charged $150 + GST when he attended as the call was 'out of area'. He diagnosed a problem with the control board and advised two days later that he couldn't get a replacement. Son-in-law and I determined that there were two faults, replaced the evaperator fan and a relay on the control board for about $110. Fridge now working perfectly, but would have ended up at the tip.

Then there's the one's who say they'll give you the GST off if you pay cash. In truth they're not giving you anything off because they're not going to pay the GST, or declare the income. Any costs associated with the job will be duly deducted from their other income though.

[Mobyturns]

Then there are the good ones, friendly efficient service from companies that have been around for decades who survive through word of mouth referrals. We've used them in the past when they were a smaller business, they have grown but the service is still exemplary.

We just had an issue with our free standing all gas stove (over 20 yo Chef & Aussie made), the oven would occasional go out, and was hard to ignite at times. Service call included an onsite component for repair time then quote for additional work required if necessary. The attending licensed gas fitter was a real credit to the company. Honest, efficient, competent and friendly service. Fault fixed first up, and was really a service / maintenance issue where accumulated deposits affect performance of the thermo-couple and igniter. Something not typically user serviceable. Then an honest appraisal of whether proactive replacement of the oven burner was necessary.

Given that there are no equivalent "all gas" free standing ovens with fan forced oven and gas grill the great and very prompt service and easy repair made my wife very happy as she was not looking forward to giving up either of the gas grill or fan forced oven, in a new appliance. btw he stated they have almost nil warranty work on Aussie made stoves, wasn't so complimentary about the "big names" from OS even though they represent all manufacturers with service / warranty work. Their competitors .... well similar to the OP's situation.

[Bart1080]

This is a quote $554.40 (service call to provide quote was $99.00 which supposedly is not charged if the quote is accepted) to supply and install a cistern inlet valve costing retail $55.00 + gst.

...Approx $300 give or take a bit to fix up something like this or a minor repair on white goods is pretty standard in most cases. Been like that for 20 years. Don't forget despite it seeming too expensive (and I do think yours might be $150 too much) the repairer has their own overheads to pay for such as their time, time to order and pay for the correct part, go back for the repair etc ect petrol, wear and tear of the vehicle, tools, insurance etc and have enough left over to pay for food on the table and the cost of living, so in reality it's not much. Anything for a minor part that costs approx $300 to $400 is to be expected.

But this is one reason why I went down the DIY fixit track 30 years ago - fridges, washing machines, dryers, dishwashers, Hot Water services, lighting, fans, etc etc resulting in 99% achieving a good long lasting fix. Depending on the fault, it may take a bit of time to diagnose the issue much to the frustrations of the "Boss" but I'd estimate I've saved >$8,000 in either repairs or replacements and have learnt a lot along the way...including making the odd mistake/misdiagnosis. Have picked up a few free washing machines & dryers that were too expensive to fix and ended up on the roadside for hard rubbish collection but in perfect visual condition. Most only required a ~$20 part and then given away to family/friends/someone that needed one.

Good luck with the DIY fix. Its an easy one with plenty of Utube's to give you a good idea of the steps required, saving you ~$400 and developing your DIY fixit skills :)

[Beardy]

All things being equal, I find a service call at $90.00 PLUS labour at $269.00 for 30 minutes work quite exorbitant.

What's your thoughts.



It is often looked at as just a 30 minute job but the reality is he is not going to be able to do 16 30 minute jobs in a day to clock up his 8 hour day so it is really more a 1.5 or 2 hour job

Just the same it sounds pricey, assume it was a larger company with a number of service vehicles on the road rather than a owner operator arrangement ?

[Avondale]

Common issue.
They see these sort of jobs as a licence to print money.
There's a need and the client NEEDS ME, and they name their own price.
Thankfully there's still a few honest ones living a different way of life.

On the flip side and speaking out of my profession, some jobs are "nuisance jobs" in that they interrupt the workflow and the day.
What maybe a simple half to one hour job actually can take several hours out of the day, as opposed to a much longer job that gives value for money.
I've plumber I think works in units of 500!

[auscab]

All things being equal, I find a service call at $90.00 PLUS labour at $269.00 for 30 minutes work quite exorbitant.

What's your thoughts.



Sounds to me like the guy knows how to run his business well. And its not 30 minutes work . He's got to be paid his hourly rate to get the part and drive to you as well. And then work in your toilet.
This sort of whinge is typical of Public servants and Teachers and the like .
I say Bad luck. Study up on your plumbing and do it yourself.

Peace Brother.

Rob

[jack620]

He's got to be paid his hourly rate to get the part and drive to you as well. And then work in your toilet.

What do you estimate his hourly rate to be based on the quote?

[Beardy]

Disect a quote from a lawyer, surgeon, commission from a real estate agent , any consultant or advertising agency . It will make you feel a lot better about the plumber

[Chesand]

I am not trying to justify the quote in the original post but we should always remember that we have to pay for knowledge and time for professionals and tradies. If you don't have the knowledge or ability to do it yourself, you don't really have any option.

We had the trees and bushes in the back yard cut and trimmed last week. He charges $300 per hour. I can't do it, so we have him in every 12 months or so. If I fell from the ladder it would cost much more than that.

[Mobyturns]

Yes I do believe that there is a cohort of tradies, professionals etc who have a pretty great lifestyle and income to suit that doesn't require working a lot of hours, or putting in a lot of effort. :;

On the other hand I observed the numerous hours my parents put into running a small business as domestic and light commercial builders back in the '60's to mid 1980's.

It's very easy to demonize a "tradie" for an "over the top" quote - but as others have pointed out there is way more time "consumed" by a "job" that that expended on site performing the service / repair. Taking the initial call, booking a service time to suit the customer, travel, inspection, advice /request for quote, quote preparation, contact customer, book another visit to suit customer, order / procure parts, travel, on site "work", paper work, prepare & send invoice, check payment is received, follow up action, prepare GST returns ..... then there is all the "customer" holdups, not at agreed location at agreed time etc....

Now if the plumber was organized they would have a stock of the common / generic high use parts like cistern inlet valves on board so there is no need to quote, duck off for parts, re-visit the customer nor prepare and send invoices etc.

Tradie's love retired people who are flexible with site visit times that fill in their day between the school Mum's, working people etc. There are never 16 half hour jobs to fill an 8 hour working day.

One alternative is the customer could bring the errant cistern to the plumber! :D

You pay for convenience etc. That's why I pointed out our experience above, a well managed business with quality staff and excellent service - well worth supporting them even at a "premium" - its actually a more is less scenario, higher hourly rate site visit charge but because of their experience, knowledge, skill, and organization they spend way less time "mucking about."

[auscab]

What do you estimate his hourly rate to be based on the quote?

$177.50 per hour. + GST

Another thing is, a guy in his position most likely has to charge as if he's paying a staff member to go and do the job in his company car. That's If he's trying to get ahead and pay the bills and not end up being a worn out self employed plumber with no superannuation at the end of his working life.
Would he also run a workshop like some plumbers do? As well as run staff and cars for them ? $255 per hour then ? I doubt he's one of that type of plumber if he's going out to quote on fixing an inlet valve on a toilet.

I would hate to have to pay for him to fix my toilet valve . These guys quote and do the job fast and disappear leaving a muddy floor for someone to clean up after them.
I have to do what I can to save a buck as well and would fix that myself but you have to just pay up sometimes. Like getting a new gas and electric oven fitted in recently. That cost some $. Plumber for gas and an electrician for a new line from the box. And the plumber just hooked it up . I put it in place . He was in and out in one hour and it was $450. The electrician was something similar.

I fixed a internal valve on the toilet cistern a while back. Just a flat rubber ring down the bottom that had perished to stop it leaking . I had to learn how that whole thing worked to get it apart and back together but in doing the job I cleaned that plastic unit insides spotless and put it back together right. I don't think any plumber Ive seen work before would have serviced that thing like that unless it was his own possibly. There's more reward than just dollars saved doing it yourself if you can. It's not a nice thought thinking pensioners or single older ladies cope with repair costs though. If they haven' got anyone younger and smart enough to help out.

[aldav]

Disect a quote from a lawyer, surgeon, commission from a real estate agent , any consultant or advertising agency . It will make you feel a lot better about the plumber

Comparing plumber's to other predators doesn't make me feel any better. :D

I'm surprised at the level of support this predatory plumber has received here. In a suburban area like the OP's I'd be happy to allow the plumber 2 hours for both visits, sourcing the parts, travel and time to complete that job. Allow him the $50 for the parts even though that seems a little generous. Take off the GST. That leaves him $450 to cover his 2 hours, if he works a 36 hour week at that rate he'll make over $8,000 a week. :oo: That's over $380,000 for a 48 week year. :oo::oo: Most of us can only dream about an income like that.

Maybe he didn't want the job and if he was going to do it he was going to make it worth his while. Maybe he doesn't want any jobs and is happy driving around providing ridiculous quotes at $90 each, who knows.

Beardy, you're a builder, how much would you pay a plumber to do that job? What's your hourly rate auscab?

[Mobyturns]

It's not a nice thought thinking pensioners or single older ladies cope with repair costs though. If they haven' got anyone younger and smart enough to help out.

Some councils / local authorities have a "free" program to support pensioners with small repairs like leaky taps, cisterns, even cleaning gutters etc. Parts generally are not covered but time was. Worth checking out.

Mum had access to it here in Townsville and used the service when I was MIA with heart problems. The council had a small "grey power" workforce of semi-retired tradies who had found a niche service with benefits for all. The Council managed the bookings etc the tradies got a reasonable hourly rate and could nominate days / hours they wished to work, pensioners got supported.

The other comment above about falling off ladders etc - take heed! We lost two ex-work colleagues within 6 months of their retirements - falling of a roof in separate events.

and yes I believe the practices of some alleged "tradies" should be reported to the Office of Fair Trading for their predatory, and exploitative behaviour.

I know of one electrician here in Townsville who tried it on the wrong customer, an ex-police officer. Over quoted, under-performed, did not complete agreed and quoted work, suggested the 10% off for cash, demanded full payment even for not completed work, threatened customer via SMS & voice, illegally entered a gated community then trespassed to "recover" parts from a switchboard, left switchboard in a dangerous state, .... now dealing with multiple Police, Office of Electrical Safety matters. They are out there - so beware.

[aldav]

Its probably a sign I am to cheap?

Ahh, yes, but it's a fine line isn't it. :D

I wouldn't put the plumber in the same basket as you as far as skills and overheads go. The vast majority of self employed one man plumbers work out of home and their small range of specialist tools are carried with them. I still reckon the guy's quote is unconscionable and predatory.

[rambunctious]

OK job done.

Replace cistern inlet valve 20 minutes, including waking tenant and waiting 5 minutes while he had a bog. Holy crap, the things we do for friends.

However, it was not a valve problem but the restricter in the mini cistern cock had come adrift and was blocking the mini cock outlet, so, after a bit of probing/picking/looking with mirror, mini cock cleared.

So you can make your own mind up as to whether the plumber (who quoted $554) would have called the owner and requested more money or would he have simply taken it on the chin ?

Thanks for the replies people, well taken.

[wozzzzza]

almost as bad as my quote of $1265 to paint a small feature wall (yellowish part in pic) at rear of pool with ok access.

[rambunctious]

almost as bad as my quote of $1265 to paint a small feature wall (yellowish part in pic) at rear of pool with ok access.

LOL Why is your location still South Australia when you have been in Cairns for how many years ??
Yep, some of us old renovate forum members remember when you started about 7 years ago in the motel/unit complex in Cairns and knew diddly squat about nothing but hey, you have learnt heaps ? with help from the old forum and now here, am I right ?.

Loved yer post on electricity recently.
Got things going at least.

[Mobyturns]

OK job done.

Replace cistern inlet valve 20 minutes, including waking tenant and waiting 5 minutes while he had a bog. Holy crap, the things we do for friends.

However, it was not a valve problem but the restricter in the mini cistern cock had come adrift and was blocking the mini cock outlet, so, after a bit of probing/picking/looking with mirror, mini cock cleared.

So you can make your own mind up as to whether the plumber (who quoted $554) would have called the owner and requested more money or would he have simply taken it on the chin ?

Thanks for the replies people, well taken.

I see you mentioned tenant - was the plumber suggested / recommended by a real estate agent by any chance?

[rambunctious]

I see you mentioned tenant - was the plumber suggested / recommended by a real estate agent by any chance?

No. Not through an agent.
Unit is owned by a friend who rents it to her son and his wife for costs approx $200 / week afaik.
Sons wife took it on herself to get quote for toilet because they were filling it with a bucket.
Why she did not contact owner is not for me to know.

I understand why you asked the question, agents using preferred contractors makes money for both at the cost of the owner.
Just talking to my own son today about agents sending plumbers to rentals to check water efficiency at owners cost.
5 minutes with a blue cup and run a couple of taps/showers.
Total BS

[wozzzzza]

LOL Why is your location still South Australia when you have been in Cairns for how many years ??
Yep, some of us old renovate forum members remember when you started about 7 years ago in the motel/unit complex in Cairns and knew diddly squat about nothing but hey, you have learnt heaps ? with help from the old forum and now here, am I right ?.

Loved yer post on electricity recently.
Got things going at least.
13 years now. not sure about diddly squat, i have a couple of trades but learnt a hell of a lot along the way in last 13 years though.
never noticed SA, will change to cairns or whatever it allows if i can work out how.

[ErrolFlynn]

Maybe it's a little off-topic but still relevant.

I used to own a property that I rented through Stayz holiday accommodation. I put up different prices based on high or low season. One price. They pay it, they stay, they go.

I’ve used Stayz myself since then. Airbnb too and others. A lot of these places charge a booking fee. (Then there’s the cleaning fee.) Sometimes quite steep. As someone who used to run one of these holiday rentals I never charged a booking fee.

There’s no effort or cost involved in booking anyone into accommodation. The booking fee is just a con. Pure and simple. But sometimes you have to pay it if you want to stay at a particular place. It's irritating.