Installing cooktop - do I need an electrician - and if so why?

[Metal Head]

We have pretty strict licensing of building trades in Qld, but builders and owner builders may weld on their own jobs and those licensed as steel fabricators obviously can weld on any job. However, the welding must meet the relevant standards, not that most building inspectors could tell.

Mick

But why should builders be any different?. Poor welds could result in a structure failing that could result in many deaths. Thus only those who have the revelant welding certificates should be allowed to weld anything structure wise including hand rails. What is good enough for electricians should be god enough or other trades.

MH

[journeyman Mick]

A builder in Qld may carry out any work except those for which an occupational license is required:

HOWEVER, if you perform any building work within one of the following classes regardless of the value, you must hold the appropriate licence:

Plumbing and Drainage
Gasfitting
Building Design
Completed Residential Building Inspection
Termite Management - Chemical
Site Classifier
Fire Protection
Carrying out or undertaking to carry out building work includes:

directly or indirectly causing building work to be carried out;
providing advisory, administrative, management or supervisory services in relation to building work; or
entering into a contract or submitting a tender for building work or offering to carry out building work.


Them's the rules, I don't make them and I don't like them, but I try to abide by them.

Mick

[NCArcher]

If you wire-up your stove how would you know if the carcass isn't at 240 V potential ? (voltmeter again)
Nic

How exactly do you intend to test the carcass of your stove with your voltmeter?
I don't think you know what you are talking about and your advise is wrong and dangerous. Please call an electrician so that nobody gets hurt.

The voltstick type testers (non-contact) are a good initial indication if power is available but as metalhead said further investigation is required. They don't always light up and can be activated by static and RF.

[nic]

How exactly do you intend to test the carcass of your stove with your voltmeter?
I don't think you know what you are talking about and your advise is wrong and dangerous. Please call an electrician so that nobody gets hurt.


Nah you're right I'm ashamed you have blown my cover, I have no clue what I''m talking about. Close to 20 years zapping myself :o with electricity and I still don't have a clue about it, AC/DC is a rock group right ??

btw what advice did I give out ? Get a good multimeter and know how to use it ... Yeah right real dangerous...


Nic

[thatirwinfella]

Btw, when would one use the 10A (not fused) connection on a multimeter instead of the fused one?.


10A is fused, that's the rating of the fuse. You're probably thinking of fused leads, which contain in the ends of the leads to prevent excessive current when testing.


i'm getting sick of all this elec bashing, we're not the only people in the world who make mistakes. I could go on all day about engineers, fitters, boilermakers, carpenters, mechanics, heck, anyone who have made mistakes.

I can go do a weekend course for first aid, but does that mean I can go play doctor and prescribe meds, and perform surgery? But I've done the course, so why not? yes, it is three wires, red black and green. "hang on, theres a white one, whats this blue one. hang on, they're all the same colour!" not so easy now. A week course won't tell you squat.

just a few quick respones to some posts, i'm not going back to find the original poster for each response;

yes, the regs are freely available, once you've paid for them. Anything you can find as a pdf will not be the regs. A 20 page pdf is not sufficient. To wire a house you'd need at least 3 different ASNZS standards.

yes, you can replace plugtops on appliances, you can't work on an installation. This includes off the grid systems over 50v [off the top of my head].

Yes, Australia has a high rate of electrical fatalities, but we also have a low population density. try getting a sparky in the middle of the outback. A huge proportion of these deaths are on farms where the wiring was DIY. A publication by Energysafe shows a huge rate of deaths from DIY work, as well as from truckies not looking up before they raise their buckets/tipper/thing.

If you are not experienced with the Australian wiring system, please refrain from describing how to install/repair a light or power circuit. It isn't as clear cut as it may seem, and if they need to ask for advice they'll probably have difficutly transferring info between the two systems.

And finally, to answer the original post [i think in seven pages I only saw two or three answers] no, you cannot wire up a stove if it is hardwired and yes it will need an isolating switch.

[Ashore]

Btw, when would one use the 10A (not fused) connection on a multimeter instead of the fused one?.

Cheers
MH
The 10 amp (non fused) connection on your multimeter is for measuring DC amperage over a short time span 10-15 sec's max , never for AC amperage, for that you need a clamp meter.


As for needing an electrician it's like needing a trained pilot in a plane , follow the instructions and have 2-3 hrs on a simulator and away you go , electrical work is covered by laws and legal requirements to protect not only you but anyone who comes after you in an attempt to stop as many as possible deaths by electrution , end of story.
If in doubt ask your local authority if you are or are not allowed to carry out said work or do you need a licenced person?


Rgds

[Metal Head]

The 10 amp (non fused) connection on your multimeter is for measuring DC amperage over a short time span 10-15 sec's max , never for AC amperage, for that you need a clamp meter.

Rgds

Thanks for that Ashore:2tsup:.

[nic]

The 10 amp (non fused) connection on your multimeter is for measuring DC amperage over a short time span 10-15 sec's max , never for AC amperage, for that you need a clamp meter.

Rgds

Hey ashore, can you explain why ?
I am puzzled by your assertion about the DC only ?

As for the 10A non fused inputs, where did you get such a device ?
I don't think I've ever seen a non fused current input on a multimeter.

You will notice in the specs/manual of your multimeter is has a mention about continuous and peak reading with time limits. That is what you should refer too, your multimeter might only be able to hold the 10A reading for 5 seconds ...

Nic

[Ashore]

Hey ashore, can you explain why ?
I am puzzled by your assertion about the DC only ?
Why I said not to test AC current was because a lot of multi meters will only play nicely with ac current under 20milliamps and in answering metal heads question the meters I have used that had a 10amp unfused socket were for DC only , I have not bought any good meters for the last 10 years as my old ones are all working and are more than I need, there may be new thecnology in the latest meters that allows you to test high range AC current if there is I haven't seen it , so rather than offer an opinion or give advice that may cause someone to damage their meter I went on the safety side in saying only use a clamp meter to measure AC Current .:D


As for the 10A non fused inputs, where did you get such a device ?
I don't think I've ever seen a non fused current input on a multimeter.
Picture below of two meters both with non fused 10Amp DC current input sockets .


You will notice in the specs/manual of your multimeter is has a mention about continuous and peak reading with time limits. That is what you should refer too, your multimeter might only be able to hold the 10A reading for 5 seconds ...

Nic
You are of course correct you should always read the specs , trouble is very few do until all else fails , and even then may find them hard to understand . My saying 10-15 secs max was from the lower limit of my meters and I should not have generalized as 15 secs may indeed damage a diffrent meter,


Rgds

[nic]

so rather than offer an opinion or give advice that may cause someone to damage their meter I went on the safety side in saying only use a clamp meter to measure AC Current .:D



Makes sense now

Nic

[thatirwinfella]

so rather than offer an opinion or give advice that may cause someone to damage their meter I went on the safety side in saying only use a clamp meter to measure AC Current .



that, and it's heaps easier anyway

[Ashore]

that, and it's heaps easier anyway
You can say that again:2tsup:

Rgds