Pembroke Table question

[Anotherplane]

Hi folks,

I have a Regency Mahogany Pembroke Table probably 1810 to 1830ish...

I have noticed on this one and also others I have seen at auctions that the side aprons that contain the fold out supports are often made of timber other than Mahogany such as oak etc, was this common as perhaps the reasoning was the drop leaf would be down mostly anyway ?

[auscab]

Yes its common . Beech was used a lot of the time . Oak and even Pine on cheaper ones . Secondary timbers as its called were the cheaper money saving sensible cuts but also other timbers may be better suited for moving wearing parts. And usually the polishers job was disguising the secondary's where they could be seen, with oxide paint like stain and sealed in with the finish. To look like the Mahogany.

[Anotherplane]

You seem to be spot on regarding my own Pembroke table as it has oak for the sides and is indeed stained a red oxide:)

It's funny as the '' newest '' antique I have is probably from 1910 to 1920 and it's solid mahogany throughout, drawer sides and back, even the rear apron. Yet it's the most heavy handed in a way design wise and build. It has carved ball and claw feet but they are not as fine as the georgian carvings and also the drawer fronts are not cockbeaded just slighty moulded on the edge. At one time I was really happy to have this piece but now that I have seen and own more georgian / earlier stuff I just want to sell it on as i don't get the same pleasure from it anymore.

It's ironic that the cabinetmaker had lots of mahogany but didn't use it as well as the men 150 years before him who were always trying to save the precious mahogany....

[The Spin Doctor]

You seem to be spot on regarding my own Pembroke table as it has oak for the sides and is indeed stained a red oxide:)

It's funny as the '' newest '' antique I have is probably from 1910 to 1920 and it's solid mahogany throughout, drawer sides and back, even the rear apron. Yet it's the most heavy handed in a way design wise and build. It has carved ball and claw feet but they are not as fine as the georgian carvings and also the drawer fronts are not cockbeaded just slighty moulded on the edge. At one time I was really happy to have this piece but now that I have seen and own more georgian / earlier stuff I just want to sell it on as i don't get the same pleasure from it anymore.

It's ironic that the cabinetmaker had lots of mahogany but didn't use it as well as the men 150 years before him who were always trying to save the precious mahogany....

What you are probably looking at is a piece made by a hobbyist, as opposed to a wood shop. Today, we find plenty of folks have the time and money to make furniture as a hobby. It's one of the things older folks gravitate to for whatever reason... And what most people today forget is that was the case back a hundred years ago and much further... The technology changes but people most often don't. People back then and much further had hobbies, woodwork being one of the more common ones. Problem is, hobbyists are often not that good at it, either then or now (now before all you hobbyist start getting butt hurt... It's relative comparison to a professional shop that has many years of dedicated experience). What you describe sounds like it's pretty average, not something a professional shop would produce, which is what you see with a great deal of the hobby furniture made. And the fact that they used expensive mahogany throughout, instead of a much cheaper secondary wood, also suggests they weren't a professional wood shop - they clearly didn't recognise the true cost of mahogany or didn't care. So maybe a rich guy or gal (probably not back then but) making furniture as a hobby.

[auscab]

At one time I was really happy to have this piece but now that I have seen and own more georgian / earlier stuff I just want to sell it on as i don't get the same pleasure from it anymore.



For some, the more we learn about a subject like antique furniture the further backwards in time our taste in quality pieces goes. Pembroke tables are beautiful pieces. Ive worked and handled them but never had one of my own. The fold out supports on them need work sometimes . Same as the antique gate leg card tables do. The fine tapered leg ones with oval or round tops are beauty's. Ive always wanted to build one.

Over here in Australia the first fleet arrived in 1788 . One of the first things that went on returning ships back to England was timber . Possibly to weigh the now empty boats down in the water as ballast? Or that may have been later when they took large amounts back ? There was a lot of interest in the flora and fauna back home for these people.

The Casuraina around Botany bay was some of the first timber used here and they sent some of that back in 1788. This Pembroke table was made from some of that first timber taken back to the UK . Nice cute proportions on it. The casuraina is probably a veneer on it. Id like to have a closer look at it. There's more to read about it in the link that's interesting .

Works | NGV | View Work (https://www.ngv.vic.gov.au/explore/collection/work/21014/)



523254

[Anotherplane]

What you are probably looking at is a piece made by a hobbyist.

I honestly think in this case it was a professional made the piece, the actual cabinetmaking in general is of high quality, dovetailing and drawer construction and the carvings are too good IMHO to be of hobbyist origin. My previous statement of the ball and claw feet and also the drawer moulding being not as nice as the georgian pieces is relative.

I have seen what are usually labelled arts and craft pieces and some of them are quite shoddy quality and probably hobbyist made....

[Anotherplane]

For some, the more we learn about a subject like antique furniture the further backwards in time our taste in quality pieces goes.
Works | NGV | View Work (https://www.ngv.vic.gov.au/explore/collection/work/21014/)



523254

Wow, that is a simple gem of a piece, even the fold out supports are beautifully shaped. Thank you for the link !

A few years ago I started a little folder on the laptop of all the lovely antiques I see at online auctions and dream about winning the lottery so I could buy them. I realised recently as I was going through the images that it was nearly all earlier pieces and also relatively simple in design. The table above is an example, I have seen Pembroke tables of superb detail with inlay and banding, precious veneers etc but I prefer the beauty and simplicity of the like of this one.

[Anotherplane]

I honestly think in this case it was a professional made the piece

Just a follow up, I attached a few images of the details of this piece. As I say I don't believe it's hobbyist made but the ball and claw foot isn't as well carved / proportioned on this 1910/1920 piece compared to earlier ones I have seen.

[mark david]

The majority of Pembroke tables will have lopers made from a cheaper timber such as oak beech or pine.
A lot of these have nbeen replaced over the years as the design made a very cosy home for the furniture beetle and were often eaten to dust.
My mother owns a pembroke table from about 1775 that has some unusual features in that the lopers are solid mahogany and mahogany was also used as a substrate for the harewood and marquetry veneered top. Most of the rest of the table is solid rosewood including the drawer sides, back and bottom.
It is however probably a $15-20,000 table so better made than most.

[mark david]

Just a follow up, I attached a few images of the details of this piece. As I say I don't believe it's hobbyist made but the ball and claw foot isn't as well carved / proportioned on this 1910/1920 piece compared to earlier ones I have seen.

Almost definitely the work of a professional although not the finest carving. I once bought a lovely mahogany card table with lovely carving although a copy of George III table which was made by Irish cabinet maker James Hicks. I bought it for £600 over 20 years ago and sold it shortly after.

[Anotherplane]

I once bought a lovely mahogany card table with lovely carving although a copy of George III table which was made by Irish cabinet maker James Hicks. I bought it for £600 over 20 years ago and sold it shortly after.

I am familiar with this Irish cabinetmaker, over here the pieces usually seem to go for large amounts when they pop up, this is a side table by him.

AN IRISH MAHOGANY SIDE TABLE (christies.com) (https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-4317439)