Banned lurker

[Log Dog]

This entity is banned...trfaantihtuh23
Been lurking past few days...
Log Dog :)

[Log Dog]

As I type there is a banned lurker on the forum
That be phanhabang222
He is from vinh loc
His birthdate is 15/11/1990
He is banned

Also another entity by the name of leducchinh2323 on the forum now
He is from chac chan (fictitious location)
His birthdate is 15/11/1990
Same as the fellow above
His email awaiting confirmation BTW

Look suspicious?
I've done my math...I reckon it's the same bloke
Creepy...

Log Dog :~

[jack620]

OK. I’m curious. Why is lurking a bad thing?

[Log Dog]

OK. I’m curious. Why lurking a bad thing?I said 'banned lurker' jack620
You work it out...

Log Dog :)

[Log Dog]

Both have now exited the forum or been removed by admin
They were mentioned as I regarded them (or rather him) as suspicious

Potential spammer?
Someone stealing data or looking to cause security issues?

Fact is this person was banned...no doubt for good reason!
And of course members are encouraged to report any suspicious activity in order to keep the forum safe(r)

Lurkers included :q

Log Dog :)

[Log Dog]

They're back online...

Log Dog :)

[Ironwood]

If they are banned, how can it be that they logged in and online ?

[Log Dog]

If they are banned, how can it be that they logged in and online ?Lord knows Brad
Admin could maybe shed some light on that


Log Dog :)

[jack620]

I said 'banned lurker' jack620
You work it out...

I've tried, but I still can't work it out. There doesn't seem to be any rule against lurking in the Forum rules. If the 'lurker' has been previously banned under a different username for breaching the rules, can they be banned under a new username if they don't breach the rules?

Unrelated, but while reading the TOU, came across this:

DON'T LIE:
We hate people who lie to us... If you come from India, say so, don't say you are in Melbourne. Don't lie.

You can come from India and still be in Melbourne.

[taz01]

Sorry to appear an idiot, but what is a lurker?

I thought lurking was just sitting in a forum but not posting, but I'm assuming a different definition is used in order for these people to be banned.

Regards,

Adam

[springwater]

Sorry to appear an idiot, but what is a lurker?

I thought lurking was just sitting in a forum but not posting, but I'm assuming a different definition is used in order for these people to be banned.

Regards,

Adam

yeah, I’m wondering too, maybe lurking has changed it’s meaning these days, like sick 🤒 Lurk all you like if that’s your thing but lurking with ill intent well that’s a different kettle of whatever. Are fish still fish? Is this a woodworking forum, bloody hell things are strange!

[DJ’s Timber]

Users that have been banned cannot post here. But if they try to log in, the system will show that banned user as logged online as the system has to recognise the username to effectively tell that user that they have been banned and eventually the system will auto log the user out after an hour or 2.

They cannot access anything, they’ll just get a automated message saying you been banned etc etc.

[DJ’s Timber]

As I type there is a banned lurker on the forum
That be phanhabang222
He is from vinh loc
His birthdate is 15/11/1990
He is banned

Also another entity by the name of leducchinh2323 on the forum now
He is from chac chan (fictitious location)
His birthdate is 15/11/1990
Same as the fellow above
His email awaiting confirmation BTW

Look suspicious?
I've done my math...I reckon it's the same bloke
Creepy...

Log Dog :~

But both users have different IP addresses, yes it looks suspicious but could be a genuine poster, we always operate on them being a genuine poster unless they have been flagged by anti spam software or they post with spam, affiliate websites etc.

[Log Dog]

But both users have different IP addresses, yes it looks suspicious but could be a genuine poster, we always operate on them being a genuine poster unless they have been flagged by anti spam software or they post with spam, affiliate websites etc.Interesting is the fact that both exited the forum at the same time early last night ...then appeared again at the same time a few hours later and stayed until after midnight
Then both appeared on the forum at the same time this morning

Log Dog

[Log Dog]

But both users have different IP addresses.
DJ
One device can have multiple IP addresses
And there are numerous ways to achieve this apparently

Just trying to 'keep a lid on the garbage' :;

Log Dog

[Log Dog]

Sorry to appear an idiot, but what is a lurker?

I thought lurking was just sitting in a forum but not posting, but I'm assuming a different definition is used in order for these people to be banned.

Regards,

AdamAdam
Lurker meaning...
Essentially someone who lurks on the internet via chat rooms
forums etc without participating

And if one is BANNED then they can't participate can they?
They are lurking!

Log Dog

[Log Dog]

If the 'lurker' has been previously banned under a different username for breaching the rules, can they be banned under a new username if they don't breach the rules?
Tell me why would a new username indemnify a person for previously breaking the rules?

Same TOOL...different toolbox that's all!


Log Dog

[Log Dog]

Lurk all you like if that’s your thing but lurking with ill intent well that’s a different kettle of whatever. [/QUOTE]
Springwater

In essence...that's precisely what I am saying!

Log Dog

[Log Dog]

And both logged in tonight within minutes of each other!
Suspicious much...

Log Dog

[ubeaut]

Late but not lamented follow-up to Log Dog's original post.

phanhabang222 - leducchinh2323 and also quochuu99 have all now been aggressively banned.

Users information has been submitted to Akismet database and StopForumSpam.com database, and all posts PMs etc deleted.

quochuu99 had the same IP, same registration date and similar DOB as the other 2.

All 3 were from Vietnam and most likely the same person, here to spam/make money off click bank referrals or cause other problems. None of those names should not be seen on here again.

As for being lurkers, after being banned. If they had not logged out when they were banned they would still be shown ad being on line but would not be able to post, send PMs or do anything much other than see the basic threads and posts. No pics or anything else.

Cheers - Neil :U

[Log Dog]

Late but not lamented follow-up to Log Dog's original post.

phanhabang222 - leducchinh2323 and also quochuu99 have all now been aggressively banned.

Users information has been submitted to Akismet database and StopForumSpam.com database, and all posts PMs etc deleted.

quochuu99 had the same IP, same registration date and similar DOB as the other 2.

All 3 were from Vietnam and most likely the same person, here to spam/make money off click bank referrals or cause other problems. None of those names should not be seen on here again.

As for being lurkers, after being banned. If they had not logged out when they were banned they would still be shown ad being on line but would not be able to post, send PMs or do anything much other than see the basic threads and posts. No pics or anything else.

Cheers - Neil :ULeducchinh2323 and phanabang222 back on forum this morning

He's persistent...

Log Dog:)

[ubeaut]

phanabang222 wasn't on but phanhabang222 was.

I would suggest that neither have ever logged out just left when done when they come back again their remembered with cookies on the computer so it appears they are online.

They are as of now blocked from access to all forums. Which they weren't before however they were blocked from everything in the below list of permissions for each and every forum. So I don't think I'd be too worried about them.

To top it off I changed the password for each of them a little while ago which should stop them from being recognised even if their login is remembered in their cookies.



Can View Forum
No


Can View Thread Content
No


Can View Others' Threads
No


Can Search Forum
No


Can Use Email to Friend
No


Can Post Threads
No


Can Reply to Own Threads
No


Can Reply to Others' Threads
No


Can Edit Own Posts
No


Can Delete Own Posts
No


Can Delete Own Threads
No


Can Open / Close Own Threads
No


Can Move Own Threads
No


Can View Attachments
No


Can Post Attachments
No


Can Post Polls
No


Can Vote on Polls
No


Can Rate Threads
No


Follow Forum Moderation RulesIf no, posts are always placed into moderation queue
No


Can See Deletion Notices
No


Can Tag Own Threads
No


Can Tag Others' Threads
No


Can Delete Tags on Own Threads
No


Can See Thumbnails
No


Can Define Arbitrary Styles for Inline Attached Images
No


Exclude From Double Post Merges
No


Can View Who Read a Thread



Cheers - Neil :U

[ubeaut]

Just went through the list of subscribed users on line in last 24 hrs and of the 481 users the 3 lurkers did not show up.

[Log Dog]

A few days ago I noticed 3 new members online that all had suspicious names :rolleyes:
One of them is dinhdohang1985...online now
As is NGUYENDUNG1999
All awaiting email confirmation
What made me even more suspicious was their stated location
dinhdohoang1985 location is 09092355536
NGUYENDUNG1999 location is 0909235566
The other ones location was identical except last 2 numbers were different eg 09092355526...a Vietnamese mobile phone number!
They all disappeared off the forum at the same time as well

I smell a rat...or 3 :C

Log Dog :)

[Log Dog]

There's more...all online now

suckhoegd1999
Location...0909235577

phuongho1854
Location...0909235536

luatthai1994
Location...0909235536

All similar D.O.B
All awaiting email confirmation as well

Thoughts :?

Log Dog :)

[ubeaut]

List of sleepers (potential spammers/clickbankers) from Vietnam has just grown somewhat larger in the last hour or so whilst doing some deep diving in the back room.

9 more were aggressively banned today, all joined up in March 2022 most on the 4th couple of others at later dates in March.

suckhoegd1999
dinhdohoang1985
NGUYENDUNG1999
Baotinnhanh2018
Thuy Duong2015
hieuduong2016
luatthai1994
phuongho1854
luatthai1994

[Log Dog]

levantien 2019 another one!
Online now...

Log Dog :)

[Mobyturns]

Like taz01 I must be missing something - what problems/issues have these "lurkers" been causing?

[Log Dog]

anchinguywen1963 yet another one...

Log Dog :)

[Log Dog]

Like taz01 I must be missing something - what problems/issues have these "lurkers" been causing?
Potential spammers/clickbankers
They pose a security risk to the forum as well MT
Neil perhaps could offer you a more detailed explaination if required.

Log Dog :)

[Ironwood]

I had never heard of “clickbankers” before, so I goggled it. There is such a thing as Clickbank, which is an online thing that people can join for a fee and somehow make a bit of money.
I know I’m a bit thick when it comes to such things, but I can’t work out how it relates to the forum :? .

[Simplicity]

I had never heard of “clickbankers” before, so I goggled it. There is such a thing as Clickbank, which is an online thing that people can join for a fee and somehow make a bit of money.
I know I’m a bit thick when it comes to such things, but I can’t work out how it relates to the forum :? .

Same here, it’s all getting too much for me, [emoji3064].

Cheers Matt.

[Log Dog]

Same here, it’s all getting too much for me, [emoji3064].

Cheers Matt.Matt...put simply!
There are folk lurking on the forum,banned or otherwise,that are causing (potential) harm/mischief
Spammers,hackers and the like.
We as members are encouraged to report suspicious activity
I have actively done that!
Not rocket science...just keeping a lid on the garbage!
Hoping Neil can offer an extended explaination

Log Dog :)

[Log Dog]

I know I’m a bit thick when it comes to such things, but I can’t work out how it relates to the forum :? .
Neil hopefully can shed some light on that question Brad.

Fact is...quite a few of these individuals are already 'banned' and shouldn't be on the forum period!


Log Dog :)

[Ironwood]

Fact is...quite a few of these individuals are already 'banned' and shouldn't be on the forum period!


Log Dog :)
I accept and encourage that.
But I am curious as to what they can gain by their actions ?

[Simplicity]

Matt...put simply!
There are folk lurking on the forum,banned or otherwise,that are causing (potential) harm/mischief
Spammers,hackers and the like.
We as members are encouraged to report suspicious activity
I have actively done that!
Not rocket science...just keeping a lid on the garbage!
Hoping Neil can offer an extended explaination

Log Dog :)

Thanks Log dog, that’s make sense, an yep good on you for keeping the B……….. out.

I honestly don’t get why these W……… don’t find something better too do than just being Key board warriors(F……. W…..), I just don’t get that.

Cheers Matt.

[doug3030]

I honestly don’t get why these W……… don’t find something better too do than just being Key board warriors(F……. W…..), I just don’t get that.

They are probably the Vietnamese equivalent of the 40-year-old virgin still living at home with mum, never come out of their bedroom, skin has never seen the sun, never had a girlfriend or a job, just sitting at their computer eating junk food and drinking coke. And obviously they don't have a shed to go and work in to keep themselves occupied so they hang around the forums of people who actually do productive stuff because that makes them feel good.

Keep up the good work Log Dog and thanks Neil, for keeping them out.

[Log Dog]

They are probably the Vietnamese equivalent of the 40-year-old virgin still living at home with mum, never come out of their bedroom, skin has never seen the sun, never had a girlfriend or a job, just sitting at their computer eating junk food and drinking coke. And obviously they don't have a shed to go and work in to keep themselves occupied so they hang around the forums of people who actually do productive stuff because that makes them feel good.

Keep up the good work Log Dog and thanks Neil, for keeping them out.
Succinctly put Doug!
Thank you for your supportive words too.
Appreciated :2tsup:

Log Dog :)

[ubeaut]

One response to all questions.

These people or this person as it is possible that it could be one person. Has/have signed up mostly on the same day or same few days numerous times and even years apart.

Sometimes initially to create havoc, flog their own site (often toxic, or or worse and yes there is worse) However over the las few years many are using forums and blogs and other social media to sneak in links to clickbank sites.

Contrary to what is said many of the click bank / click bait sites pay extremely well for the links these people sneak on to sites. Many of them will pay up to 30% of sales made to the click baiter who was responsible for the link and sale.

One of the worst that has been caught and their click bankers banned numerous times was Teds 16,000 Woodworking Plans which I'm sure many if not most will have seen briefly on here or hundreds of other sites Check out this woodworkweb.com scam page (http://www.woodworkweb.com/woodwork-topics/woodwoorkweb-news/304-16-000-woodworking-plans-scams-and-spams.html) for info re Teds and it's far from the worst one.

The people that have been recently deleted yes and even the few that haven't posted from March 2022 are a blight to forums and blogs. This forum has been under attack for around 12 years now with may thousands being caught and deleted by me and moderators, not to mention the below deletions and preventions shown below and available at the bottom of home page for all to see.

Spam-O-Matic Statistics
649851 Spammers Denied Registration
...1494 Spammers Permanently Banned
...1522 Spammers submitted to StopForumSpam
...1593 Spammers submitted to Akismet
...15893 Spammy Posts Automatically Moderated
The first figure in the above list 649 million 850 thousand gives you a bit of an idea as to what we're fighting against daily and the ones deleted in this thread are just a drop in the ocean of the lurkers/sleepers that are still hidden, unseen in our member list.

Hopefully all the above is of help to those who don't know what the problem is and why these people should be banned.

Lurkers, aren't a problem: :D We have many lurkers who have been registered for many long years and never posted, but regularly view the forums to keep themselves informed, find an answer to problem, or are just too shy or timid to post, etc.Lurkers with intent, are a proble: :~ As per all the above we can't and don't catch them all when they register and the mongrels are getting more clever with their registrations over the last few years when they realise there is money to be made as a clickbait poster or spammer if you can sneak in a few links, even for a couple of hours before being caught and all will be caught sooner or later.

We have had as many as 250,000+ member register over the past 23+ years, but over those years I have culled and mods have culled almost half of them. Not all spammers, etc. but many who registered and 5 years later had never been back since they registered or may have used bogus emails, etc.

I reckon all the above pretty much says it all or at least enough.

Cheers - Neil :U

[Mobyturns]

Thank you Neil. The work you guys do behind the scenes is incredible and very much appreciated.

I for one never associated a lurker as a "lurker with intent." Like most forum members, I understand that innocent lurkers probably outnumber active members 50:1 or more on most forums.

If they ("lurkers with intent") are inserting links to nefarious or scam sites such as Ted's Woodworking then I guess technically they aren't a "lurker". :D

I guess if we are more vigilant as members and report suspect "members" or posts we can make your roles a little easier.

Thank you.

[jack620]

One of the worst that has been caught and their click bankers banned numerous times was Teds 16,000 Woodworking Plans which I'm sure many if not most will have seen briefly on here or hundreds of other sites


Yep, that was everywhere for a while.

[Log Dog]

If they ("lurkers with intent") are inserting links to nefarious or scam sites such as Ted's Woodworking then I guess technically they aren't a "lurker". :D
.
Who cares what they are MT? :rolleyes:
What's important is that these individuals are identified promptly and removed from the forum.
And we can all play a part in achieving that goal.

Log Dog :)

[ubeaut]

Maybe it would be good for you to do a bit of a tutorial or info (for those interested), as to how you go about finding the information needed to report these suspicious felons.

:U

[Log Dog]

Oakey doakey
Here's a few tips on how to recognise suspicious felons that are prowling on the forum.

Firstly the name(s) they adopt on the forum
I look out for ones that are...

a)Nonsensical
b)Asian (but not limited to)
C)Bearing numerals (often year dates)
D)Clusters of individual names that are similar to each other
E)Newly registered ones

Keeping an eye on whether certain entities are on the forum simultaneousy and if they exit the forum simultaneously as well
This can relate to an entity having multiple identities
A Red flag

Look at their D.O.B profiles...
A felon with multiple identities will often have exact or similar birth dates displayed on their user profiles
A trap they ALL seem to fall into for some reason or another!

Their location...
Often fictitious or nonsensical
Sometimes numbers are used...when that occurs I simply 'google' it.
If I get lucky it will reveal a mobile number(and its origin)
Make google your friend!
Sometimes they state their user name as their location
Another red flag

Membership status...
Often the felon (s) are new members awaiting email confirmation

Forum behaviour...
Have noticed a lot of these entities will only visit certain sites on the forum eg.Wanted to buy/sell etc
Red flag for clickbankers

And that's about it
Although after a while one develops a 'gut' feeling as to which ones are perverse and nasty :;

Hope that helps a tad in identifying these suspect felons and to 'keep a lid on the garbage'

Log Dog

[Arron]

So being Asian is a red flag.

Not really a good way to create an inclusive environment, is it?

[Log Dog]

So being Asian is a red flag.

Not really a good way to create an inclusive environment, is it?
The woke brigade :~

Fact is alot of these individuals are from Vietnam
Sadly yes they are a red flag

By the way I am NOT racist and staunchly reject the assertion!

Log Dog :)

[Log Dog]

List of sleepers (potential spammers/clickbankers) from Vietnam has just grown somewhat larger in the last hour or so whilst doing some deep diving in the back room.

9 more were aggressively banned today, all joined up in March 2022 most on the 4th couple of others at later dates in March.

suckhoegd1999
dinhdohoang1985
NGUYENDUNG1999
Baotinnhanh2018
Thuy Duong2015
hieuduong2016
luatthai1994
phuongho1854
luatthai1994
Hmmmm...
Bit of a theme happening here :o

Log Dog :)

[Arron]

Never said you were a racist, or even ‘asserted’ it.

Never said the majority didn’t have Asian names either.

You jumped to those conclusions.

Just said focusing on race is not a good way to build an inclusive community.

[Log Dog]

Just said focusing on race is not a good way to build an inclusive community.
Arron you are taking what I said way out of context!
Stop being precious old mate :;

Log Dog :)

[ubeaut]

Asian names and being Asian isn't a problem. There are other tells that cause the problems.

We have spates of different nationalities hitting us from time to time. In the last few years they have been from Netherlands, Russia, Ukraine, France, India, Vietnam is just the latest among lots including USA and Canada and UK.

Often they are one person with multiple signups.

20 years ago they were gangs of hackers who had fun ruining blogs and forums by attacking in multiple numbers and posting so much garbage that poorly moderated forums were literally shut down due to the avalanche of nonsensical and often dangerous posts.

The original Timber and Working With Wood Show had a sort of forum that had to be closed because they had thousands of attacks over a couple of months that weren't moderated.

Later attacks came from robots intent on spamming.

Then later again the Human verification for most forums (CAPTCHA) was broken by ne'er-do-well mongrels allowing around 1.5% of robots to gain access and with millions of robots attacking at the same time that 1.5% ended up being many millions of break-ins in a couple of weeks. I fixed ours with questions robots couldn't answer.

Then the Spammers couldn't break in with their robots they turned to places like India and had kids doing their signups for them at the rate if a few cents per hundred. But even there they still had problems.

But probably over the last 10 years it's been purely motivated by greed to make money for more clever lucrative click bait posters who can make up to many hundreds even thousands per week.

Many of the click baiters signed up signed up a number of years ago and we call them Spammers In Waiting they will come back from time to time and be caught but we usually have to wait for their first post which will often be nonsense or off topic to catch them.

Used to be a certain period of time would allow newbies to post without moderation hence the waiting time.

For the past 6+ years all newbies are moderated for certain number of posts before they can post without being watched closely. So garbage, gobbledygook, and off topic stuff is and allows us (admin and Mods) to pick them up and often find a number of others.

There's a lot more to all of this than meets the eye, especially the extra time moderators and admin have to put in daily sorting out the good from the bad moderated posts, searching IP's and searching Stop Forum Spam for banned IP's, usernames, emails, etc.

All the above is keep these forums safe or the members and visitors who don't do the wrong thing.

Bottom Line: These forums don't discriminate against peoples race, gender, religion, colour, politics, etc. etc. etc.
All are welcome but anyone who comes just to spam or do the wrong thing will be aggressively banned without warning.

Cheers - Neil
Phew!!!! :sweat:

[woodPixel]

I once was talking to a hardened environmentalist.

He said, in brief, that if we want to Save The Whales, we should sell them.

i.e. they have a price. Someone owns them. He, after I reflected upon the problem, wasn't wrong. He didn't mean to sell each individual whale so it might be slaughtered for its bits - but as humans we immediately see things as more valuable when it has a price.

Perhaps a solution to these spammer woes is to simply have a price attached to membership.

To join, one must put in a credit card number and a value of ONE CENT is charged.

This gives the forum a few things:

-- Certainty of identity
-- A known country (non-AU cards are flagged for post/user monitoring via an internal report)
-- One member per card.... how many cards is a spammer going to risk?
-- An elimination of fraud via the credit card systems own fraud detection network (which was a major part of one of my Big Wig jobs)
-- If there is ever a future charge back, the user can be automatically terminated and all posts hidden (or reviewed)
-- Implementation is straight forward
-- Paypal is another option, which does the same filtering


BTW, this has been my job, in one way or another, for 25 years. The ideas would take longer to design & approve than implement :)

(BTW, Ive been learning Python 3 at a huge rate of knots for the last 6 months (its GREAT!), to compliment my PHP, Java, c++, Ada, Haskell)... I'm looking for another project while I look after SWMBO... if you have the data, I can make magic-reports that are dynamic and sortable, with click-action fun built in)

[doug3030]

To join, one must put in a credit card number and a value of ONE CENT is charged.

I think that would work!

One of the tactics I use when messing with scammers on the phone is to ask them for their credit card number.

Apparently scammers don't have credit cards, or at least they won't give me their card numbers for some reason.

(When scammers call me, as soon as I identify that they are a scammer, I immediately ask for their credit card number. They ask why, I tell them there's a $50 fee for calling this number. They ask what is the fee for and I tell them that I cannot discuss it until they pay, thereafter, no matter what they say, I just ask for their credit card number.)

[ubeaut]

Sounds like an idea, but... Yeah naah! :no:

Got enough problems as it is. Besides, no way I'd give over CC info for this especially with the other info required to sign up. Name, CC, D.O.B., etc sounds like a recipe for disaster.



I once was talking to a hardened environmentalist.

He said, in brief, that if we want to Save The Whales, we should sell them.

i.e. they have a price. Someone owns them. He, after I reflected upon the problem, wasn't wrong. He didn't mean to sell each individual whale so it might be slaughtered for its bits - but as humans we immediately see things as more valuable when it has a price.

Perhaps a solution to these spammer woes is to simply have a price attached to membership.

To join, one must put in a credit card number and a value of ONE CENT is charged.

This gives the forum a few things:

-- Certainty of identity
-- A known country (non-AU cards are flagged for post/user monitoring via an internal report)
-- One member per card.... how many cards is a spammer going to risk?
-- An elimination of fraud via the credit card systems own fraud detection network (which was a major part of one of my Big Wig jobs)
-- If there is ever a future charge back, the user can be automatically terminated and all posts hidden (or reviewed)
-- Implementation is straight forward
-- Paypal is another option, which does the same filtering


BTW, this has been my job, in one way or another, for 25 years. The ideas would take longer to design & approve than implement :)

(BTW, Ive been learning Python 3 at a huge rate of knots for the last 6 months (its GREAT!), to compliment my PHP, Java, c++, Ada, Haskell)... I'm looking for another project while I look after SWMBO... if you have the data, I can make magic-reports that are dynamic and sortable, with click-action fun built in)

[Mobyturns]

Sounds like an idea, but... Yeah naah! :no:

Got enough problems as it is. Besides, no way I'd give over CC info for this especially with the other info required to sign up. Name, CC, D.O.B., etc sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Neil, It's Like putting a target on your back - another "soft source" for hackers to target for "saleable" personal information to sell on the dark web.

Naah, Nahh!

Heck, I won't even sign up for loyalty programs and really rile up about the proliferation of "you must be a member to shop here" business tactics. All such practices should be made illegal under ACL in my not so humble opinion.

[woodPixel]

The card info isn't kept, or even stored. Its irrelevant. Thats dealt with via a gateway.

The only thing that matters is the one cent.

The charge is made and the confirmation code stored. Its just a string of number irrelevant to anyone else. It does not need to be secure.

As for the other items on the signup page, don't collect them. They are all only for ID. This idea bypasses them.

The site then only needs to collect a handle, email address... and that's it. IF the other stuff is needed, put it on page two, or a config page post signup. All they do is inhibit joining.

Clearly state that the one cent is purely and only for spam control and NONE of the data is EVER even seen by the site. Be absolutely up front about it - and if people have a whammy, refund them the goddam one cent. You'll already know they aren't a spammers - for spammers rely on volume.

But, ultimately, its not my site. I'm only offering a simple1 bullet-proof solution to an intractable problem.... :)



Sadly, ID to use the internet is soon to become a thing. Spam and fraud are out of control. Bots ARE out of control. The free and open internet will continue, but Internet Version 2 will involve tiny tokens like the one cent to ensure spam and fraud is destroyed right at the source.


1 - it would take less than a few hours to implement.

[Mobyturns]

The card info isn't kept, or even stored. Its irrelevant. Thats dealt with via a gateway.

The only thing that matters is the one cent.

The charge is made and the confirmation code stored. Its just a string of number irrelevant to anyone else. It does not need to be secure.

As for the other items on the signup page, don't collect them. They are all only for ID. This idea bypasses them.

The site then only needs to collect a handle, email address... and that's it. IF the other stuff is needed, put it on page two, or a config page post signup. All they do is inhibit joining.

Clearly state that the one cent is purely and only for spam control and NONE of the data is EVER even seen by the site. Be absolutely up front about it - and if people have a whammy, refund them the goddam one cent. You'll already know they aren't a spammers - for spammers rely on volume.

But, ultimately, its not my site. I'm only offering a simple1 bullet-proof solution to an intractable problem.... :)



Sadly, ID to use the internet is soon to become a thing. Spam and fraud are out of control. Bots ARE out of control. The free and open internet will continue, but Internet Version 2 will involve tiny tokens like the one cent to ensure spam and fraud is destroyed right at the source.


1 - it would take less than a few hours to implement.


started a new thread - so we dont hijack LD's thread.

ID protection online (woodworkforums.com) (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f43/id-protection-online-250525#post2303337)

[ubeaut]

Thanks for the further information WP. It's is interesting but I'm not sure it's a good thing for here.

I will have Steven look at it and see what he reckons. However being the sceptic that I am, I have a feeling that it will scare off more genuine prospective members than spammers.

May not bother the younger ones, with the emphasis on "may not"!

May not bother the more mature ones who are a bit more savvy, again with the emphasis on "may not"!

But older and wiser and "Once bitten twice shy" people will be way more wary of giving out their CC info for even one cent to join up.

In these times people are being strongly warned to not hand over their CC or other info to to anyone you don't know or completely trust.

Not only that but in the same vein people are now being warned... "if a scammer calls you on the phone don't say yes to anything because it can be recorded and used against you later."


Jan 9th 2011 Woodwork forums started using Stop Forum Spam and Akismet which helps us immensely after massive spam attacks on the forum when the bad guys broke CAPTCHA .

Of interest: I was on Stop forum Spam a couple of hours ago and inadvertently landed on their home page. Saw the below stats and thought they would be of interest in this thread and also a bit of a laugh.



From Stop Forum Spam homepage (https://www.stopforumspam.com/).

API QUERIES TO DATE
106,857,972,920

CURRENT API QUERIES
500
PER SECOND

COFFEES CONSUMED
SINCE STARTING
16,941
:coffee:


Cheers - Neil :U

[doug3030]

Thanks for the further information WP. It's is interesting but I'm not sure it's a good thing for here.

Yes, it's all about trust. People who have been members here for a while would be cnfident to trust Neil and Woodpixel to run the system as WP described it.

Unfortunately it probably would be a huge disincentive to new members even though they would happily be in 100 facebook woodworking groups where the platform itself datamines everything it can get.

I can see what WP is suggesting would be the way of the future, but being the pioneer of the use of the technology in this way woudld be a brave move. It woudl be hard to sell the idea to potential members who have not developed a trust of the management and members of the forum.

[Crunchie]

The only thing I want to say about all this is thanks to the moderators for your vigilance and associated hard work at keeping this forum secure. I have recommended this forum to many woodworkers, including at markets I happened upon (recently at Echuca, Victoria, and in New Zealand in the past fortnight. I have been happy to tell people that it is a heavily moderated site that is safe because the scammers and abusers are kicked off.
Once again, thanks to all who play any part in making this forum a site I want to be on and am proud to recommend. I trust your decisions. Keep up the good work.

[ubeaut]

Just to give members a bit of an idea what we're up against.

A number of dual registration with same IP and bad intent have been banned since last posts above.

But the below will open the eyes of many as to what we're facing I guess not only on here but other forums. The below info is from an email received at 1:15pm today.


FROM CLOUDFLARE
Cloudflare stopped 3,692,363 threats
last month for woodworkforums.com
https://www.ubeaut.biz/woohoo.gif
And that's not counting the ones stopped by Akismet nor the ones who somehow managed to register, were caught and banned by us.

A big thumbs up to Cloudflare, Akismet, DJ's Timber and members who have reported spam posts and PM's. :2tsup:
And an great big gotcha to those lowlife mongrels who wish to do the forums harm...:bgrab:

Cheers - Neil :U