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GRadice
1st August 2022, 12:38 PM
OK, way down here seems to be where garden shed discussions hide. Hello?

I'm into an unusual or maybe even exotic project: a Japanese framed shed, in Oregon, USA. This came about because a couple of years ago my wife asked if we could have a shed closer to our downhill garden to keep tools and supplies rather than uphill in our garage. Since the garage is also my shop I was enthusiastic. I can finally get all that gardening c**p out of my space. My only requirement was that I over-do it. She agreed. Why I'm glad I married her.

Here is my current sketch of the shed. For scale, the plan is 6 feet by 9 feet to center lines. Sorry, Imperial because that's how I started but I promise everything after this will be in metric. Not just to be courteous but because I realized later that with my mostly Japanese tooling metric would be much easier. For example, the posts are 120 mm x 120 mm.
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The frame will be of Port Orford cedar, which I purchased 18 months ago from a sawmill about 5 hours from my home. After air drying it is now about 11-13% MC. I've milled the posts and beams square and to final dimensions mostly in my garage shop with jointer and band saw and some hand planing.

Here is the jointer with a hint of the band saw setup.

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Rather than having a sill on continuous perimeter foundation I'm using a design in which the shed posts are scribed to stones set on concrete piers. A Japanese style called ishibatate or "standing on stones." Threaded rod set into the piers pass through the stones and into the posts. The post bottoms are scribed to the contour of the stones. A bit tedious to carve the posts but I wanted the visual effect of a post seeming to rise from the stone. It is also very stable.

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More to come if there is interest.

Gary

NCArcher
1st August 2022, 01:02 PM
More to come if there is interest.

Gary
Yes please Gary. Love the scribing to the stones. Looks great. Are you planning to build with traditional Japanese joinery?

GRadice
1st August 2022, 02:28 PM
Yes, all Japanese joinery. The only metal fasteners will be screws to hold down the rafters, metal roof panels, wood flooring and some in the plywood and cement board wall panels.

Last summer I made a joinery study in smaller timbers to see whether I was on the right track. The joints are scaled about 2/3rds but the distance between the joints is vastly reduced to fit into my shop/shed. So not a scale model but a joinery model.
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A couple of the more complex joints. This is how the barge board/hafu will be joined to the eave beam/keta on the gable end.
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And here is a three way joint of the floor beams to a post.
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Fun, right?

johknee
1st August 2022, 02:52 PM
Wow, your joinery is great. Nice work!

P.S. Awesome workshop.
P.P.S I spy a Trinacria flag too!

GRadice
1st August 2022, 03:14 PM
P.P.S I spy a Trinacria flag too!

Good eye! I'm a proud descendant of grandparents on my father's side from Mistretta and Sinagra in Messina province. And I have cugini in Sinagra near Perth, too.

Greg Q
1st August 2022, 03:16 PM
Beautiful work Gary. Is that a Northfield jointer? You've done a great job on the guarding on that black bandsaw too.

I'm not going to show this thread to my wife. I have lately been getting potting shed pictures in my email, unsolicited.

GRadice
1st August 2022, 03:35 PM
The jointer is a 12" Crescent jointer made about 1948. It is a beast. The bandsaw is also a Crescent, 26", made in the late 1920's. The wheel guard is original. You might also get a glimpse of a 20" cast iron Fay and Egan bandsaw toward the back, made in the late 1950's. All of my machines are older ones that I've restored. I'm too much a miser to buy new. The youngest floor machine is a 1979 Rockwell/Delta Unisaw that I bought nearly new in 1981 but is now an antique, like me.

Bushmiller
1st August 2022, 04:28 PM
All of my machines are older ones that I've restored. I'm too much a miser to buy new. The youngest floor machine is a 1979 Rockwell/Delta Unisaw that I bought nearly new in 1981 but is now an antique, like me.

GRadice

Your machines are to die for and your work excellent, but I am struggling to equate your Rockwell/Delta Unisaw purchase in 1981 with your listed age. Perhaps your other achievement is to have found the fountain of youth, although that in itself would probably not change your actual age: Only the apparent age! :)

JP joinery is amazing. Keep us updated.

Regards
Paul

Greg Q
1st August 2022, 04:32 PM
I really like old ww machines. I used to restore machine tools as a hobby, and when I get time I will likely do the same with woodworking tools. Most of mine are from the 70’s although I am a 4th owner of a ‘95 Felder that is ripe for restoration. After the potting shed. And the Japanese inspired cedar bridge across the stream.

I did see the F&E bandsaw in the back too and think very well of it.

FenceFurniture
1st August 2022, 05:12 PM
Fantastic work Gary. The posts rising out of the stones looks terrific.
P.S. Awesome workshop.
P.P.S I spy a Trinacria flag too!Agreed.
So what else can we spy in the dude's workshop?

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Well I reckon that the red-handled clamp is stamped "Made in West Germany" on the lower jaw, and "100" on the other side, and was purchased around 1975-85.

Greg Q
1st August 2022, 06:36 PM
And the orange ones are Jorgensen “Pony” from Garret Wade in the 90’s . I ain’t showing you guys my shop pictures ��

GRadice
2nd August 2022, 03:38 AM
When I prepped the site for construction, for fun and to honor a Japanese tradition I conducted a jichinsai ceremony. This comes from the Shinto religion and is meant to apologize to the local natural spirits for disrupting their peace and quiet in hopes of pacifying them. Otherwise, they might cause bad luck.

The ceremony can be more or less elaborate and also involve a Shinto priest. Those are thin on the ground around here so I did a DIY. The minimum needed is a branch of something evergreen, and an offering of rice, sake, and salt. I don't think the local spirits are familiar with rice or sake so I used home made sourdough bread and an Oregon pinot noir. The little green and red stool is something my grandfather made for me 65 years ago. I clapped my hands twice to get the spirits' attention, bowed in respect, and offered a silent wish for a safe and successful build.

My dear wife just rolled her eyes but after 34 years together she is used to my antics. I'm not religious at all but I think taking a moment to be mindful of the task ahead is always a good idea.

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woodPixel
2nd August 2022, 04:01 AM
If you want to see just how bad things can get by not following the rituals, watch Ghibli's Pom Poko.

Bbiiiggg trouble!

GRadice
2nd August 2022, 12:45 PM
I did see the F&E bandsaw in the back too and think very well of it.

There were very few made, probably in the 1950's or early 60's. Most F&E were made much larger for industrial use but they made this baby one to the same standards and I suspect that made it too expensive to be a popular. I was I lucky to find one locally a few years ago. It had been abused by someone who thought it would make a great saw for cutting aluminium. And then knocked it over cracking the trunnion. But I was able to find a cast iron orthopedic welder who set that right, and I cleaned and repainted the rest. The direct drive is really smooth for curved and everyday work but at 1 hp (I don't know the metric equivalent) a bit underpowered for resawing.

Here is a slightly better but still fuzzy view of it before I got the blade guides mounted and dust collection ducts attached.

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GRadice
3rd August 2022, 12:05 PM
And yes, you got those clamps identified. I don't have much new to report on the shed since I'm still just doing layout: How about these clamps?

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FenceFurniture
3rd August 2022, 12:27 PM
The red handled clamp was a pretty easy guess for me, seeings how I purchased 6 of them in the early 80s. :D
The Fuller G clamp in the top right corner of your pic reminds me of a clamp that I inherited about 8 years ago. It's bent and useless, but far too nice to toss out, so it just hangs around on the wall looking pretty.

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Greg Q
3rd August 2022, 01:38 PM
Those big sash clamps look familiar. I kind of want to say De-Sta-Co, the old Detroit Stamping Company, but they look kind of 1930’s or earlier.

On edit…Hargraves or Hargreves I think. Maybe Cincinnati Tool Company? I think we had those in grade 9 shop class in 1967 come to think on it.

GRadice
4th August 2022, 06:43 AM
Very good! The long ones with notches on the narrow faces of the bar are Cincinnati Tool Co. The ones with ridges on the sides for side clutches are Hargraves. Both probably early 20th century. There are also some modern Jorgensen pipe clamps and a few older no-name/unidentified pipe clamps. The g-clamps (we call them c clamps here) are various USA makers.

Fuzzie
4th August 2022, 07:33 AM
I'll add my best effort to the guessing game that the Pinot Noir was Willimete Valley 2019. :p

A few years ago I stayed in a delightful Japanese Style AirBNB in Portland near Mississippi Ave. The owner was away that week, apparently conducting a course on Japanese building. Are Japanese builds a big thing in the area?

GRadice
4th August 2022, 11:05 AM
I'll add my best effort to the guessing game that the Pinot Noir was Willimete Valley 2019. :p

A few years ago I stayed in a delightful Japanese Style AirBNB in Portland near Mississippi Ave. The owner was away that week, apparently conducting a course on Japanese building. Are Japanese builds a big thing in the area?

Brilliant guess! It was in fact a Treos 2013 Pinot Noir. The Treos vineyards are about 30 minute drive down the valley in the Eola/Amity Hills wine district. Local wine for the local spirits.
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Japanese house aren't common anywhere in the US but you are most likely to find them on the West Coast. Portland and Seattle have always had fairly large Japanese communities, as well as the San Francisco Bay area and Los Angeles. There is enough interest to support a few well known builders who specialize. East Wind/Higashi Kaze in California is probably the best known. Takumi, in Seattle, is another, and there are a handful more. The owner of Takumi also teaches Japanese carpentry and is generously advising me on my shed build. There are probably more people who like them than can afford them. It is a costly way to build for sure. Which is why I am doing a very small shed.

GRadice
4th August 2022, 01:41 PM
Getting back to the shed.

A little terminology translation since I'm in the USA. You know, Australia and the USA: two countries separated by a common language.

Where I'm from, "timber framed," means a structure made of large dimensioned vertical posts and horizontal beams that are connected by wood joinery like mortise/mortice and tenons and dovetails and such. Large dimensioned wood structures joined with metal connectors rather than wood only joinery here are called "post and beam" buildings. The metal connectors rather than all wood joinery are the difference. Other buildings framed with wood of smaller dimensions that are connected by nails and screws are generally called "stick built." Are these distinctions made in Australia or are there others?

My shed is an example of what I consider a "timber framed" structure. In Japan I think this was just traditional building before WWII but with advances in engineering and earthquake resistance building codes there have added more Western framing methods such as diagonal bracing and more metal connectors. Especially for joinery that is in tension. Where I live, my shed is so small in plan and elevation and not a residence that it is not regulated by local building codes.

I'm not recommending anyone anywhere build this way. I'm only showing what and how and why I'm doing it. I'd love questions and advice to keep me from mistakes and encouragement to get me past the hard yards.

Greg Q
4th August 2022, 01:48 PM
I cannot speak to the distinctions in heavy timber construction…most of those buildings I have seen also have some kind of iron joint reinforcement and or iron tension rods in the roof support structure. I haven’t seen a new build like that in the 32 years I have been down here.

“Stick built” here means a lightweight stud frame built on site. More and more pre-fab frames are delivered and stood in a day. No one stick frames roofs anymore, they are all pre fab engineered trusses made from 2 x 4 and nail plates.

BEM
5th August 2022, 05:10 PM
I spy an Italian coffee lover. I see there's a coffee grinder in the back room to the left of the Trinacria flag.
Are you using Japanese chisels or any other Japanese tools for the shed construction?
:japan:

GRadice
6th August 2022, 12:32 AM
Very sharp eye. In fact, here I am right now

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I keep the grinder in the garage so the noise doesn't wake my later-rising wife.

Yes to using Japanese tools, mostly. Layout tools, saws, chisels, and planes. I'll show some of them along the way.

GRadice
6th August 2022, 12:57 PM
Back to shed building. One technique I learned early in my research for this build was to saw a sewari, a back or relief cut, on one face of the freshly cut heart center beam. The idea is to concentrate all the tangential contraction as the beam dries to one face and reduce or eliminate surface checking on the other three faces. In my reading about Western timber sawing I've never seen this approach mentioned. It seems like a good idea.

Sometimes wedges are tapped into the kerf every 30-40 cm or so and periodically tapped in further to keep pressure on the sides as the beam shrinks. Here are some of the beams ends just after kerfing.
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I did some beams with and some without wedges. Adding wedges makes it harder to stack the beams as they dry and it is a pain to unstack and re-tap the wedges and restack several times over months of drying. On some beams the sewari seemed to work beautifully. On others maybe not. But my sample is only 18 beams. Overall I'd say it worked well because I did get some checking on the other faces on most beams but they are narrow.

Here is one end a year later. You can see the kerf has expanded and there no checks on the other three faces, at least at this end.

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And another couple of sticks showing one side with no checks, and another beam with the expanded relief kerf.

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In Japan the kerfed face is typically buried in a wall if it is in a post or faced up or down out of view if it is horizontal. Or it can be filled with a wedged strip if being visible is unavoidable. Structurally it doesn't matter whether it is filled or not unless the kerf runs through a tenon. Planning which face to kerf takes some thought and experience. I tried to decide ahead of time which post and which beam would go where and which face would best be hidden. In Japan that job goes to the head carpenter. No head carpenter here. Just little old me. I mostly did OK but wish I could have had a couple of those cuts back.

I tried filling some of the kerfs as an experiment even though I knew those surfaces would be hidden. I will fill the remaining kerfs on the timbers that will be exposed to the outside elements where they might accumulate water or otherwise be unsightly. You can see a couple of filled kerfs here.
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Sometimes filling them looked better. Sometimes worse. Just one more thing to think about. I hand planed the filler strips using one of the beams as a planing bench. It wasn't that hard to do the planing, but the variable width of the dried saw kerfs made getting a tight fit tricky and left some gaps here and there.

For scale, most of the beams in the pix are very roughly 125 x 125 mm.

rwbuild
6th August 2022, 01:23 PM
This is proving to be one of the most interesting threads I have seen. A whole different approach to working with timber.
Looking forward to this ongoing build.

NCArcher
6th August 2022, 01:44 PM
I agree Ray,
Thanks for taking us along Gary. I've watched temple builders working in Japan. It was fascinating. This is just as good :U...nearly

FenceFurniture
6th August 2022, 09:17 PM
Fascinating Gary, really interesting.
I tried filling some of the kerfs as an experiment even though I knew those surfaces would be hidden. I will fill the remaining kerfs on the timbers that will be exposed to the outside elements where they might accumulate water or otherwise be unsightly.If I'm faced with "it's looks like I'm trying to hide it, and it's not hidden...just accented" then I'll usually go the other way and make it a contrast. So e.g. in this case it may look ok with a dark filler - charcoal grey or similar. Hard to envisage though, without knowing where the beams will be placed.

GRadice
7th August 2022, 12:29 AM
Yes, highlighting the kerf is another way to go. A version of that I've seen in pictures is to plane the filler strip nearly flush but leave it proud about 5 mm to create a nice shadow line. It looks a little like an added piece of architectural moulding.


Another Japanese practice is to orient posts so that the root end of the original tree is down and the crown end is up. They do the same with vertical board and batten siding: the boards are oriented as the tree would have grown. It isn't always obvious in a sawn board which end is which. Sometimes one can suss it out from the grain pattern, sometimes by the ratio of sapwood to heartwood along the length. Neither of those methods was useful for my stock. What was useful was examining the pattern of growth rings around the knots. Here is one. The growth rings on the upper, crown direction are closer together than those on the lower, root side of the branch. Sometimes I found it was a close call and that I needed to look at several knots to be confident.


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This is one of those subtle features that I've never noticed before but now that I've seen it I can't not see it.

I have read that for boards laid horizontally the preferred aesthetic is to place the root end to your left as seen when you are facing the entrance to a building or a room.

Greg Q
7th August 2022, 07:04 AM
Yeah thanks for that Gary. Now I am going to be haunted all day about what a hack woodworker I am.

I used to go to Japan 3 or 4 times a month and eventually learned that there is always an unseen level of refinement to things. My wife and I are gradually building a Japanese garden adjacent to the house. It has taken me six years to build the house…I think the garden will take twice that long to understand and improve.

GRadice
8th August 2022, 01:11 PM
I'm jealous. I've visited Japan just once about 40 years ago in my former life, for ten days in industrial Yokohama. I was working and poor and a bit overwhelmed. My main memory was feeling alien. But I value that experience. Returning for a woodworking tour is on my list. Maybe in 2023 or 2024. The wife says yes and the finances say maybe. I would love to tour Japan now with new eyes and more time.

I love to visit Japanese gardens. We have a good one not too far away in Portland: Portland Japanese Garden (https://japanesegarden.org/). A guy who has built structures for them is advising me on my project. And there happens to be a local couple with a beautiful Japanese garden within walking distance of my home. I've been there and it is wonderful.

Momijien.org (http://momijien.org/)

But i have to say for a garden I lean more toward a native plants/less maintenance/less fussy style. When I visited the momigi-en garden last spring I saw them removing individual sprouts from the ends of every branch of their pine trees. Nope! If that's what it takes I'd rather chisel mortices. They'd probably say they'd rather prune pine trees!

Greg Q
8th August 2022, 05:26 PM
Ah well, that was at the end of my international career and I have to say, the peak of it. We only rarely had time to venture out of Narita village, but there were plenty of back streets to explore. Even modest homes had beautiful cedar features. There is a temple there that was established 1160 years ago and they are still perfecting the ~40 acres of gardens. Massive timber construction. Even the most modest outbuilding is done with the expected attention to detail. Not exactly harmonious designs, but I guess because they are largely ceremonial.

You can wander the back streets and find vending machines on the sidewalks, unmolested. Cold beer, hot canned coffee. What a world. .

Japan is one of the few places that I would actually pay retail to revisit. And I hate paying retail.

GRadice
9th August 2022, 01:18 PM
Lovely. Thanks, Greg.

Some joinery at last. This is the wedged half dovetail I'm using to connect the horizontal tie boards (nuki, 貫) to the posts. Functionally like "girts" in Western timber framing. Old school Japanese framing didn't use much diagonal/knee bracing so instead they used multiple nuki to resist racking/shear forces. From what I can tell they used either this or pegged mortice and tenons. I like the half dovetail because in tension it get stronger as the dovetail is compressed.

In the pic the post is horizontal and a short scrap nuki to test the fit is vertical. For scale the mortice is 145 mm x 30 mm and 90 mm deep. If you stare at it you might recognize that the joint is housed so the nuki bears on its full width/depth.


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To make the mortice I started with a router template clamped to the post centerline. Then routed 15 mm deep. That got me the depth of the housing and established a consistent reference surface for excavating the rest of the mortice.


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Then a I used a 28 mm auger to drill out much of the waste for the 30 mm mortice. I hoped that difference would give me enough clearance to accommodate sloppy free hand drilling yet not require too much chisel cleanup after. I think I got it right at least on the first attempt. The other block is there to let me know when I hit the 90 mm depth. I really, really did not want the lead screw of the auger to blow through the show face opposite the bottom of the mortice. I gave myself 30 mm of buffer but still. One mistake would be a very bad day. Work to do first thing in the morning, not at the end of the day.

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woodPixel
9th August 2022, 03:53 PM
I'm enjoying this greatly.

I also follow a few Japanese Instagrammers who are building-erectors....

ryo5610(株)藤本工務店 (https://www.instagram.com/p/ChAIjV4p8Vg/?theme=dark)
Kokichi @ Chantarokichi (https://www.instagram.com/chantarokichi/?theme=dark)

There are many. The first link shows how vigorous the building process can be! :)

Greg Q
9th August 2022, 06:11 PM
I have only ever used western chisels to chop mortices. Can you please post a picture of what you used?

I like that joint very much and get that it is self-wedging. Obviously seismic disturbances wouldn’t bother it.

FenceFurniture
9th August 2022, 07:44 PM
I like that joint very much and get that it is self-wedging.There have been a few politicians that were good at that too.

Greg Q
9th August 2022, 08:10 PM
I'm not going to even offer a response, but I am giggling.

woodPixel
10th August 2022, 01:03 AM
This book may be illuminating...

The Building of Horyu-Ji: The Technique and Wood that Made it Possible - T & Kohara; J Nishioka (https://www.abebooks.co.uk/products/isbn/9784916055590?)

It comes up for sale periodically


This is a description... The Building of Horyu-Ji by T & Kohara, J Nishioka (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/33834721-the-building-of-horyu-ji)

GRadice
10th August 2022, 03:52 AM
I have only ever used western chisels to chop mortices. Can you please post a picture of what you used?



I'm using the chisel on the top, a 30 mm atsunomi. It is a serious piece of steel. For size comparison just below is a standard Japanese bench chisel. Below that is Japanese mortice chisel. Those mortice chisels are much like the Western versions except they are usually shaped with square parallel sides rather than slightly tapered sides. The largest mortice chisels are usually 12 or 15 mm and are used mostly for furniture and door making. Any wider than that and they tend to get stuck in the mortise.
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For paring the mortice side walls I have these two slicks, ootsukinomi.
The Varieties of Japanese Chisels Part 15 – Ootsuki Nomi 大突き鑿 – Covington & Sons Tools (https://covingtonandsons.com/2019/11/23/the-varieties-of-japanese-chisels-part-15-ootsuki-nomi-%E5%A4%A7%E7%AA%81%E3%81%8D%E9%91%BF/). One is 24 mm and the other is 48.

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Greg Q
10th August 2022, 07:34 AM
Thanks Gary. Those are beautiful tools. I have a set of carpentry chisels I purchased from Mrs Ishiwata's hardware store in Narita but was planning to find some finer ones on my next trip which didn’t happen. Those slicks are admirable, but I look at them and then think of dropping one on my foot.

Thanks for the link. I am going to enjoy reading that whole series.

Greg

GRadice
10th August 2022, 01:14 PM
This book may be illuminating...

The Building of Horyu-Ji: The Technique and Wood that Made it Possible - T & Kohara; J Nishioka (https://www.abebooks.co.uk/products/isbn/9784916055590?)



Ah, thanks. I've put it in my "to get" queue.

Two other sources for traditional Japanese construction I've found that others might find interesting:

1) Anything on the late Chris Hall's blog, The Carpentry Way. Go through his build index and topic index or just start at the calendar beginning around 2009. In my opinion, Hall was a genius. Both a skilled craftsman and scholarly student of Japanese carpentry. His monographs are superb and far better, and less expensive, than any commercial books available. The pdfs are still available and proceeds go to his young family.

The Carpentry Way – Designing and building in solid wood, emphasizing joinery with minimal use of glue or metal fasteners. (https://thecarpentryway.blog/)

Kezouro-kai USA. Homepage - Kezurou-kai USA (https://kezuroukai.us/)

Originally a Japanese planing competition to see who can achieve the thinnest shavings. Their USA branch has expanded to support and train other aspects of Japanese woodworking such as Japanese carpentry and joinery. They offer online Zoom classes. Joining for little money gets you a discount on their classes.

GRadice
14th August 2022, 11:49 AM
Incremental progress. Mortices chopped on two posts. One post shown here. Each post takes me two days, working maybe 4-5 hours per day. Four more posts to go then on to the horizontal beams. My plan is to do all the mortices first and then go back and cut all the tenons to fit.

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BEM
15th August 2022, 08:57 AM
The bottom ones look a bit scary. :C I enjoy cutting mortises though. It's going to be really interesting watching them come together.

Greg Q
15th August 2022, 10:52 AM
Gary, even your saw horses are works of art. Which just made me realise what all my cedar offcuts are going to become. Keep 'em coming..l

GRadice
15th August 2022, 11:29 AM
The bottom ones look a bit scary. :C I enjoy cutting mortises though. It's going to be really interesting watching them come together.

Ha! Wait until you see the tenons!

I'm using a slight variation on the three-way beam-to-post joint I tried in my joinery model. I changed the look of the upper stub tenons to make it a little easier to cut out with a single template. There are two of the joints in the shed.

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Here's more or less what it will look like assembled, (without the post in the way).

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And assembled:

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And from underneath:

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Truth be told, being able to try joinery like this full scale was the main reason for me doing the shed. I love the challenge of 3D thinking needed, the clever interlocking, getting the layout and cutting right, and, maybe perversely, that almost all of it is hidden in the finished structure. I've done similar successfully on furniture which gave me the idea I could do it at this scale. How cool to build a piece rather like furniture but to be able to step inside it! But now that I've started I see this is a whole new game. Humbling.

Wongo
15th August 2022, 11:51 AM
This must be one of the most amazing WIPs here :2tsup::2tsup:

GRadice
15th August 2022, 11:55 AM
Gary, even your saw horses are works of art.

Ah, sawhorses. Deserves a whole thread somewhere.

Before I started this project and despite woodworking for 40 years I somehow had zero saw horses. I looked around for designs that would be useful specifically for timber framing using Japanese tools and techniques. The design you see was popularized many years ago by Jay Van Arsdale, a woodworker in California who teaches Japanese carpentry. Plans are available on the internet. These are sturdy as heck. They don't need to be nearly as robust to support the work but the wide top is useful to keep the beams from sliding around. They are low so that you can sit on the beams while working them. The ones I made are little clunky/crude looking to my eye but I didn't fuss over the details. I used western red cedar since I thought I might use them outdoors where they can get wet.

My other horses, which I like much better for just keeping wood off the ground are these designed by James Krenov. Plans also all over the internet. Too light weight for pounding on them but they are great for taking up little space in the shop.

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And then I did exactly one of these splay-legged horses based on a Chris Hall design and tutorial for learning Japanese roof layout. It required geometry similar to what is used in a hipped roof. Most sawhorses are slapped together and meant to be somewhat disposable. This one is a "forever" sawhorse. There is no glue (except for the laminated top) and no metal. Just joinery. It will support whatever you give it. But it is rather heavy and does take up a lot of shop space. One is enough for me.

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Ponies in the herd:

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BEM
17th August 2022, 02:25 PM
40 years experience! :doh: I knew your posted age of 22 was a joke. I kept thinking, how is a 22 year old this well set up in the workshop and so good already at woodwork?
I love the saw horses. Especially the Chris Hall designed one. You're right. They DO deserve their own thread.

Lyndon

GRadice
18th August 2022, 12:36 AM
40 years experience! :doh: I knew your posted age of 22 was a joke.

Lyndon

GRadice, international man of mystery!

I actually just turned 70, but that's just between you and me.

The Hall saw horse has some wonderful layout challenges. The legs are not square in section but rather slightly diamond shaped to accommodate the splay angles. And then compound angled mortice and tenons join the legs to the top. It took me many mistakes and several tries to get the drawings right.

Yesterday was a bad day. I dropped my large framing slick on the concrete. Of course it landed on the cutting edge. No catastrophic damage but it did take me three hours to resharpen it. It is possible to speed up sharpening using electric grinders but that usually is not done with Japanese tools because of the risk of heating them up too much and losing temper on the edge. So coarse diamond stone for most of the grunt work. I considered it penance.

Bushmiller
18th August 2022, 09:04 AM
GRadice, international man of mystery!

I actually just turned 70, but that's just between you and me.

The Hall saw horse has some wonderful layout challenges. The legs are not square in section but rather slightly diamond shaped to accommodate the splay angles. And then compound angled mortice and tenons join the legs to the top. It took me many mistakes and several tries to get the drawings right.

Yesterday was a bad day. I dropped my large framing slick on the concrete. Of course it landed on the cutting edge. No catastrophic damage but it did take me three hours to resharpen it. It is possible to speed up sharpening using electric grinders but that usually is not done with Japanese tools because of the risk of heating them up too much and losing temper on the edge. So coarse diamond stone for most of the grunt work. I considered it penance.

GR

Nothing wrong with 70. I too am approaching 70: From the wrong side :(.

Saw Horses are the draught horses of woodworking.

Regards
Paul

GRadice
18th August 2022, 01:14 PM
I'm fine with being 70, too. Although, I was talking with a friend about the same age yesterday who was raving about his e-bike. He said, "When you ride it, it makes you feel younger and stronger!" I said, "SOLD!"

Here is a new-to-me way to peg a mortise and tenon joint that I've decided to use on my shed. I learned of it from Jon Billing, an American who moved to Japan to learn carpentry and woodworking and writes a blog once per week that I very much like:

Notes from the Shop - Big Sand Woodworking Blog (https://www.bigsandwoodworking.com/notes-from-the-shop/)

Pegged mortise and tenons are probably centuries old. As far as I know, in the West pegs are round but in the East they are mostly square. I have no idea why the difference. Does anyone here?

Staying with Japan, also as far as I know the tradition is to orient a square peg, a komisen, 込栓, with its sides parallel to the posts and beams horizontally and vertically. But according to Jon Billing and his sources, a new and better way is to rotate the square peg 45 degrees and kerf the end of the end of the tenon. When draw bored and under tension the peg then expands and wedges the end of the tenon in its mortice. The greater the tension, the greater the wedging action.

I have not seen the engineering data but intuitively this seems brilliant to me. And since I'm building a garden shed and not a hospital I decided to try it. I have some stub tenons to further resist twisting of the floor beams.

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FenceFurniture
18th August 2022, 02:29 PM
Nothing wrong with 70. I too am approaching 70: From the wrong side :(.Everything is wrong with 70 if you are approaching it from the right side. In 4 years I doubt my health will be any better (it's not too bad now though) and I'm damn sure I won't be any wiser...perhaps just a whisker more knowledgeable, with luck. Certainly gaining knowledge from this excellent thread!



As far as I know, in the West pegs are round but in the East they are mostly square. I have no idea why the difference. Does anyone here?They didn't have a lathe to make a round tenon? :D Maybe it's a decorative thing? Making a square peg fit a square hole is probably easier and more accurate than making a round peg fit a round hole (no, don't go to the obvious....)

GRadice
18th August 2022, 04:04 PM
And just in case my description of the rotated square peg and kerfed tenon wasn't clear, here is a model of what one will look like from the tenon side:


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I have read that that in the Western tradition sometimes holes were drilled round and square pegs were pounded into them. The corners of the peg bit into the circumference and held fast.

"A square peg in round hole," nowadays means to be a misfit but back in the day apparently it was meant to refer a solid, stalwart person who could be relied upon.

Can anyone confirm this story?

woodPixel
18th August 2022, 05:55 PM
"A square peg in round hole,"

That's very interesting, isn't it.

Making a round hole is easy, but making a round peg is not.

It is MUCH easier to make a square peg and knock the edges off it with a plane.

Hammering an octagonal into place forces a bloody tight fit.

Are there any Shaker experts here who may have seen this? My Shaker woodworking bible (a monster of a tome) is in storage :(

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GRadice
21st August 2022, 02:05 PM
Making a round hole is easy, but making a round peg is not.

It is MUCH easier to make a square peg and knock the edges off it with a plane.



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That rationale makes sense, thanks.

I might be a little delayed in posting on shed progress for awhile since today we welcomed this little girl to our household. We have named her "Willa." Nine week old Golden Retriever. She joins a nine year old GR named Stella and a four year old Siamese cat named Sky. So far, all is surprisingly tranquil.



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GRadice
1st September 2022, 01:42 PM
I finished the 28 post mortices and I'm on to the three way joint between the post, a tie beam on the short axis of the shed, and an eave beam on the long axis. This particular framing joinery is called oriokigumi 折置組 and apparently is used mostly for barns rather than residences because it requires a tie beam on every post. That limits design options for residences. But fine for my simple shed.

Here is a pic of a joinery model in a book. The tie beam sits on the post and eave beam sits on the tie beam. The joint between the tie beam and eave beam is a cogged lap joint, in Japanese called a watari ago 渡腮. I have read that is as strong as a half lap joint but removes less wood. I cannot confirm that but I'm doing it anyway.
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I've started on the tie beam half. I did the through mortice first using a drill, chisels, and slick. I also used a fake tenon with pencil/graphite scribbled on its surface to mark contact points and a square to make sure the mortice sides were right. For the rest I used hand saws, chisels, slicks, and a router plane. I tried a router, too, but that was too scary and noisy and required a template and such. If I was doing many of these i would definitely grab a router but for six joints and no deadline I've decided to use hand tools. I'm still working it out. By the time I'm done with the sixth one I might have a method I like.

Here is one half joint done. I seem to be able to do two per day, which is fine with me. The little bevel in one corner is to accommodate a decorative chamfer on the eave beam.
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GRadice
4th September 2022, 12:22 PM
I finished the joinery for the three tie/cross beams. The mortices in the centers are for the equivalent of king posts that will support the ridge beam. The beams still need to be finish planed and chamfered. I'll either paint the end grain or apply copper caps. All that will come after all the shed joinery is finished.

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Edit: in case my descriptions haven't been clear, these beams are the ones shown here in dark brown.

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GRadice
6th September 2022, 01:26 PM
Instead of finishing the post/eave/cross beam joints I decided to work on the floor beams. Only because I already have them in my shop. Less work than moving them out and moving the much longer eave and post beams back into the shop from outdoors.

Here is one end of one floor beam. Those little half arrows are for wedges that will pull a matching tenon in tight to the beam and the post. The joint is a little rough as my first attempt, but since I thought it might be, I started with the one in the back of the shed that faces down or hidden in a post so almost none of this will be visible in the finished shed. I'll do the the other one that will be front and center later.

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Here is the location of this floor beam in the shed:

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rwbuild
6th September 2022, 01:56 PM
You have to admire the mindset of the original carpenters from eon's ago who developed these joints, no doubt there would have been a lot of trial and error involved

yvan
7th September 2022, 08:55 AM
You have to admire the mindset of the original carpenters from eon's ago who developed these joints, no doubt there would have been a lot of trial and error involved

Ditto!

I was wondering if these complex joints were developed to erect wooden structures without the need for fasteners and to be flexible enough in the event of an earthquake for the joints to interlock in "all" directions to prevent the structures to fall apart as a result of the shaking & quaking?
And another question is which joint to use for what... !!

Cheers
Yvan

GRadice
7th September 2022, 01:28 PM
Ditto!

I was wondering if these complex joints were developed to erect wooden structures without the need for fasteners and to be flexible enough in the event of an earthquake for the joints to interlock in "all" directions to prevent the structures to fall apart as a result of the shaking & quaking?
And another question is which joint to use for what... !!

Cheers
Yvan

From my amateur reading, I think you are exactly right. Historically what we think of today as Japanese carpentry started with Buddhist monks who learned their trade in China. The Chinese methods and techniques gradually became modified in Japan (some might say "refined"). There are also different styles and traditions within regions of Japan. And use of metal fasteners in Japan was restricted for a long time by "sumptuary laws" which restricted who could use metal in construction. To me the variations and subtleties of Japanese joinery are endlessly fascinating.

And after all this time, here is something new in pegged mortice and tenon joinery from Japan. Use a square peg but rotate it 45 degrees, and kerf the end of the tenon along the peg axis. Under tension, the tenon spreads and wedges tighter into its mortice.

As described in a blog post by Jon Billing, an American working for Somakosha, a small construction company in Japan who is trying to maintain old ways of building:

Maruta Bench - Build 3 - Big Sand Woodworking (https://www.bigsandwoodworking.com/maruta-bench-build-3/)
杣耕社 (http://somakosha.com/)

I think this is brilliant and decided to use it for the pegged tenons on my shed. This will be the other end of the floor beam shown above.

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The stub tenons and haunch are there to resist twisting. That darned puppy cost me a couple of wonderful hours away from the shop today but I did get this far. I haven't cut the mortice for the peg yet since I need to make certain about the fit before I draw bore.
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GRadice
9th September 2022, 01:49 PM
I finished the second of two "rod tenon mortices," (rough translation) and this went a little better than the first. A bit more refined.

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There is a nuance in cutting the half mortices for the two keys. They need to be tapered on one edge. I have been unable to find a good description in English for how to lay out and cut these little mortises but I do have a figure from book in Japanese by a master of joinery named Shinzo Togashi. The great thing about this book is that the layout dimensions are all proportions of the stock you have rather than fixed dimensions. I think the modern term is "scalable".

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Note that the mortices for the keys should be tapered by about 1/20 the width of the beam, not the depth of the mortice. In my case, the taper is about 5-6 mm.

Here is my layout for one side.

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And after chiseling and paring

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woodPixel
9th September 2022, 03:40 PM
That's the first time I've seen this measurement produced. Thank you.

I've two thoughts:

-- First is how these joints deal with the weather and rain build up inside the joints. Obviously it isn't too much of an issue.

-- Second, if you should ever sell the house, that garden shed may be proclaimed a Local Treasure and heritage listed! :D

GRadice
10th September 2022, 03:47 AM
That's the first time I've seen this measurement produced. Thank you.

Here is the carpenter's joinery book I referred to:

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Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/Mokuzo%C3%8C-kenchiku-no-tsugite-shiguchi/dp/4274069710)

Togashi has other books on temple construction and gate construction if you really want to get in over your head!


I've two thoughts:

-- First is how these joints deal with the weather and rain build up inside the joints. Obviously it isn't too much of an issue.

-- Second, if you should ever sell the house, that garden shed may be proclaimed a Local Treasure and heritage listed! :D

Generally the joinery would be covered by wall infill and protected by flashing. Or the entire frame would be covered. On mine the frame will be infilled but the posts and beams outside surfaces will be exposed. I have a friend who does this and is advising me on flashing details.

It certainly will be a sturdy and unique place to house a lawn mower and pruning shears!

GRadice
10th September 2022, 01:20 PM
Some WIP photos of the tenon end of the floor beams. I have done 2 of these and have 6 more to go. Here is how I cut the first two. I might change the order of cuts a bit later as I feel my way through this. Not too complicated but it does require being able to saw to a line. I knew this was going to happen on this project so for the last couple of years I set myself the goal of doing most of my saw cuts with hands saws even when I could have used a machine. That paid off, I think.

Cross cut to establish the end of the haunch. I used a rather coarse and aggressive 330 mm ryouba saw for this.

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Then a rip cut with the same saw along one cheek of the tenon. That stray layout line to the left was a mistake. For this I knelt and cut down vertically Some stand on the bream and cut up. At my age I demurred.

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I try hard to not saw past my lines. Instead I leave a few feathers of connection and when the waste bit can be wiggled I knock it off with a hammer and then clean up the feathers with a chisel.
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Then cut the tenon cheeks, flipping the beam as needed to get both sides even.
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and then cross cut the shoulders, which in this case are also the ends of the stub tenons. For this I used a guide although it wasn't really necessary.

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and both cheeks done.

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Then the rebates that establish the outsides of the stub tenons. I switched to a smaller, finer, 270 mm saw here since this will be a show joint. And a guide block checked for square.
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Then ripped the other side of the rebate.
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and both sides done.

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Then reestablished the layout lines for the stub tenons and chiseled out the waste between them.

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Then chamfered the ends of the main and stub tenons.

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And finally checked the tenon width. Nominally 30 mm. From the saw it was about 31.5. After some planing and paring I got to within shouting distance. The softwood I am using is fairly compressible so tighter is better than looser. This was a good day.

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GRadice
12th September 2022, 12:15 PM
The adjacent floor beam has a long tenon to fit the long mortice I recently made. I ripped the long cheeks of the tenon on a bandsaw and did all the rest with hands saws and chisels as above.

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On test assembly. The space left between is where the beams insert into a post.

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How the half-mortises for the tapered wedges come together. Both halves of each are sloped as I described above, wider on the surface and narrow on the bottom.

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I made the tapered wedges parallelogram in section as you see. They can be made rectangular which are easier to make but that tends to spread the sides of the mortice when you tap them in. Maybe not a big deal on thick timbers but since I have only two of these joints to do I opted for the better engineered solution that concentrates forces along the line of the joint. Here are illustrations from Chris Hall's masterful monograph on splicing joints to compare.

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GRadice
13th September 2022, 01:36 PM
Here is another nuance of making and fitting the tapered wedges (shachi sen). It is a little hard to illustrate. But if you taper the mortise from 36mm x 8mm at the surface to 31 mm at the bottom as I have done, then the mortise and wedge also have to taper from 8 mm to 6.89 mm at the wide end of the bottom of the mortice. Here is a view from above the wedge mortice toward the bottom of the mortice.

If you don't taper the wedge in both directions the wedge is 1.11 mm too wide at the bottom and pushes the mortise walls apart. It took me a while to wrap my head around the geometry but drawing it in Sketchup helped. Chris Hall has a fuller explanation in his monograph on splicing joints, which I highly recommend, again.

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GRadice
23rd September 2022, 07:27 AM
Pecking away at it. I finished all of the tenons on the peripheral floor beams and now I'm on to the two sleepers that support the floor joists in the center of the shed. On of them is included in the three-beam-to-post joint I just described, and the other ties directly to peripheral floor beams. They are the two show here from below colored tan.517212

One wrinkle that took me a while to design is that the tops of the two sleepers need to be 30 mm below the tops of the peripheral beams to accommodate the height of the joists and finished floor. That took some fiddling with the joinery layout.

On the left is end of the sleeper that meets the post. The notch in the tenon will capture the edge of the long tenon on a peripheral beam. The notch is cut out 1mm closer to the tenon shoulder so that the inserted long tenon acts as a draw bored peg and pulls the sleeper in tight to its post. Unfortunately this tenon had a bad crack and knot I had to cut out and scarf in a patch. None of it will be visible in the assembled joint. The other sleeper is joined with a housed double tenon, offset to accommodate that 30 mm step in beam heights. Both have a series of cogged lap joints for the joists that will sit on them.
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GRadice
24th September 2022, 12:52 PM
The ends of the floor joists are supported by pockets in the side peripheral floor beams. I got those pockets chopped out today. Or so I thought. Here are the two peripheral beams and the two sleepers. Ooops.

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But, as y'all say: no worries. I picked myself up, dusted myself off, and realized that all I have to do is adjust the width of those joints from 48 to 52 mm. I haven't milled my 60 mm joist stock yet so I can just make slightly wider joists. Catastrophe averted.

I have the revised joinery almost done. I would have finished today but at the end of the afternoon here my wife gently asked whether I could "STOP THAT #$@%&$ CHOPPING and please take the dogs out!" Which I did.

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GRadice
30th September 2022, 10:46 AM
I finished one of the two eave beams. It is about 4 m long.

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Here is how an eave beam connects to a post and tie beam and supports a barge board at an end. The notches are for rafters on 1 foot/304.8 mm) centers.

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GRadice
2nd October 2022, 12:53 PM
A word about my double measurement system. While I was designing this thing my research told me that Japanese residential architecture was modular and based on the size of tatami mats. However, the size of tatami mats varied from region to region and were measured in the shaku system, now standardized at 303 mm. A tatami mat for construction purposes is today standardized at 303 x 909 mm but also by individual contractor preferences. Then you have to consider what standard size materials are available for sheathing and roofing and timbers. And tooling dimensions are almost all metric. It gets complicated. Buildings in Japan are still designed with the shaku system, and also in metric so carpenters need to be fluent in both.

Shaku (unit) - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaku_%28unit%29)

In the USA of course, we insist on using the Imperial system so that adds another opportunity for "creativity." For example, roofing materials like shingles and roofing panels and timbers are almost exclusively in Imperial.However, a nominal 2 inch by 4 inch timber is actually 1.5 inches by 3.5 inches. Sheet goods are sold in Imperial width and length but most commonly metric thickness. It is a nightmare.

I decided the most important place to start was making sure the rafters lined up with the available roofing materials, which dictated a rafter spacing in feet and inches. I wanted the posts to line up exactly with the rafter spacing so that dictated that the post spacing be based on a 3 foot grid. So my plan spacing for the post centers is 6 ft x 9 ft, or 1828.8 mm by 2743.2 mm. Then I've dimensioned all of the of the posts and beams based on a post section of 120 mm x 120 mm. That is compatible with Japanese metric tooling and simplifies most of the mortise and tenon layout at 1/4 of beam dimensions/30 mm.

One of the USA guys who is advising me was trained in Japan in the shaku system and uses it for his designs, then translates all dimensions to Imperial to get plans approved by engineers and local building authorities. Of course computers do the math instantly but when you are in the shop it is a different game. Fun!

woodPixel
2nd October 2022, 03:29 PM
A missed opportunity to get the Shaku to 300mm in 1891, rather than 303.

So close!

GRadice
3rd October 2022, 01:39 PM
Yes! I should have mentioned that the shaku system, for those who don't know, is also decimal. 1/10th of a shaku is a sun, 1/10th of a sun is a bu. It could have been great medium between Imperial and metric.

I finished the joinery of the other, mirror image, eave beam.

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Next up is the ridge beam, sitting there patiently to the right. It bowed since I provisionally milled it a few weeks ago. I'll correct it tomorrow before I lay out and cut the joints.

GRadice
4th October 2022, 01:29 PM
Mostly grunt work today with a hand plane and minor assist from the band saw to get the ridge beam squared and planed on three sides. A little more to go tomorrow.

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I had another load of Port Orford cedar milled last week. This for the roof rafters, floor joists, doors, windows, gable lattices, and some other parts. The mill kindly delivered it for free (because it was going with a much much larger load of their own) to a kiln just an hour from me. The kiln said they would dry it all for USD $125, a fair price to me, and sticker and wrap it in plastic when it was done. But that their kiln is down until they can get a computer board from Hong Kong which might take a couple of weeks before they can start. A global economy thing. But then it will take only about 10 days to dry my wood. So all together my wood might be available at the end of the month. Which is perfect timing for me and my budget.

GRadice
6th October 2022, 01:24 PM
I have the ridge beam all squared and the top backed for the roof slope. I used a power plane for roughing and a hand plane for finishing.

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The English version of the Japanese carpentry book I'm using (Sato and Nakahara) has three common approaches for joining rafters to ridge. I'm using the center method since my roof will be exposed so I want a more finished look and I think the pockets will help the rafters resist twist.

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The ends of the ridge beam need to fasten the peak where the barge boards of the gable ends meet. That joinery is a little tricky since there are two relatively thin barge boards meeting at a miter with both stuck to the end of a beam. My meager collection of Japanese carpentry books are little help but I think I see a way forward. I'm looking at something like this with a dovetailed draw pin to hold the barge board horizontally and a stub tenon of some shape to support the barge board vertically. I know this will work for the ridge beam but I need to think on it a bit more to see how it will work with the joinery for the two barge boards.
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GRadice
7th October 2022, 02:12 PM
Getting maybe a little off track but while I'm working on the ridge beam to barge board joinery I'm considering adding a gegyo, 懸魚, which is a decorative pendant that covers the end grain of a ridge beam or purlin and hangs beneath the barge boards. The feature is called, for interesting historical and etymological reasons, a"hanging fish."

August 2009 – Page 12 – The Carpentry Way (https://thecarpentryway.blog/2009/08/page/12/)

The gegyo can be either simple or elaborately carved. Generally they have a hexagonal central feature but the surround can be pretty wild. There are many variations.

:<<>>: JAANUS :<<>>: Terminology of Japanese Architecture & Art History (https://www.aisf.or.jp/~jaanus/)

Since I'm making a humble garden shed, I'm leaning toward a simple gegyo, maybe something like one of these from the internet:

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GRadice
9th October 2022, 12:56 PM
I decided to make a sample/template of the barge board joinery to make sure I really understand the layout. I did a smaller scale version of this last summer but of course since then I forgot how I did it. When I do it for real it is serious since the clear vertical grain cedar I'm using for barge boards is spendy for me and I'd really like to not make mistakes. So I glued up some scraps and milled the composite to real life dimensions to make some trial barge boards. Here is the joinery from the back partially assembled.

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And from the front partially assembled. I have not tapped in the tapered locking key since once it is in, it is really difficult to remove and I'm not done yet.
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I got the angles spot on but I made a couple of mistakes. One is that I missed that the groove for one of the tongues should stop short of the edge. Otherwise it leaves an ugly gap. Fixing it makes more work on sawing out, but do-able.
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The other is that somehow on layout I underestimated or mishandled pencil line on the upper/closer edge.

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But overall the roof angles are spot on so I can use this sample to help lay out the rest of the roof.

woodPixel
9th October 2022, 02:27 PM
I've seen this joint. Its diabolical.

When modelling it in Sketchup and thinking how it might be made, it seemed to be easier to make the main joint first, ensuring it fits perfectly THEN making the locking key.

Overall I then thought that draw-boring it would be SO MUCH easier :)

GRadice
10th October 2022, 12:09 PM
I've seen this joint. Its diabolical.

When modelling it in Sketchup and thinking how it might be made, it seemed to be easier to make the main joint first, ensuring it fits perfectly THEN making the locking key.

Exactly right. That is the best way, because that's how I did it!

I wasn't exactly sure what dimensions to use for the stub tenon(s) so I just went ahead and layed out a guess on the back of a barge board and started chopping. I quickly decided that those little vertical wings were going to be a problem and probably not necessary so I didn't finish chopping them out. And I decided that my 10 mm stub tenon would be better at 15 mm, which meant I had to raise the location of the slot for the sliding dovetail by 5 mm as shown by the pencil lines.

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After making those executive decisions I took a deep breath and layed out then cut the corresponding joinery on the end of the ridge beam.

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I'll do the other end tomorrow.

anc001
12th October 2022, 10:48 AM
My only requirement was that I over-do it.

I never knew I had a twin brother!

GRadice
21st October 2022, 12:50 PM
I never knew I had a twin brother!

Fist bump.

I've been working on another project (Japanese timber framed bird house) for a friend so not much to report on the shed. But here is an update on the pups:

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Willa is now 17 weeks and Stella just turned 9 yrs. Amazing to get them both smiling for the camera. They are another reason I don't have much progress on the shed.

GRadice
29th October 2022, 10:10 AM
Well, it is still timber framing, with joinery similar to the shed.

Port Orford cedar frame and panels, black locust barge boards and Osage orange ridge cap. All are rot resistant. Plus a few brass bits.
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GRadice
29th October 2022, 01:31 PM
And I'll add that the birdhouse was bartered with a friend for more black locust wood (Robinia pseudoacacia) to use for wedges and pegs for the garden shed because it is hard and rot resistant. Seems a fair trade whatever the birds think.

GRadice
2nd November 2022, 11:55 AM
Back to the shed. I have the ridge beam pockets for the rafters almost all chopped out. Hand saw, chisels, and a little router cleanup. I made a rafter template to check the angles and fit. My new shop dog is not impressed. I'm hurt but but she's cute so I'll let it go.

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GRadice
2nd November 2022, 11:57 AM
Back to the shed. I have the ridge beam pockets for the rafters almost all chopped out. Hand saw, chisels, and a little router cleanup. I made a rafter template to check the angles and fit. My new shop dog is not impressed. I'm hurt but she's cute so I'll let it go. For scale, the rafters are on 1 ft centers because of my roofing materials available over here (OK, 304.8 mm) and are 50 x 65 mm in section.

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GRadice
8th November 2022, 01:38 PM
Got the king posts done. Although these "king" posts measure a whopping 445 mm shoulder to shoulder. Nothing complicated but I did have to make sure that I got the tenons on the two ends of each post sorted into top and bottom since they face in different directions. And the shoulder to shoulder distance had to be right on to elevate the ridge beam to a pre-determined pitch. This is all basic stuff to an experienced carpenter, which I am not. So it took me a long time to check and double and triple check my measurements. But I'm happy to report that I think I got it right.

I laid them out here with the tools I used to make the tenons once I had milled the stock square. Gratuitous inclusion of the other shop dog, Stella. She also is not impressed with my efforts. Man's best friend, ha!

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I will add that one of the very simple but handy tools for this work, which I learned from a friend who studied carpentry in Japan is that little plain rectangular block milled precisely flat and square in three dimensions. Used as a gauge for the fit of tenon cheeks and shoulders. If it rocks or tips or doesn't touch at all points you quickly know where to adjust. Good for furniture sized work, too.

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GRadice
12th November 2022, 12:44 PM
One of the post step tenons done. Not perfect but good enough. I test for tenon fit with a mortise template complementary to testing the mortise fit with a tenon template. Much easier than trying to test fit the joints themselves on 10 foot long beams.

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GRadice
19th November 2022, 01:39 PM
Last June I ordered some more rough sawn Port Orford cedar, from the same sawmill that supplied the frame beams, for the rafters, floor joists, doors and a few other parts. The sawyer said he could get it done by mid September. Thinking then that I might be able to use it this fall I asked about getting it kiln dried instead of waiting for it to air dry. He recommended a company about 120 km south of me, we agreed, and he delivered my wood there. It took them a while to get it into their kiln because of some technical problems, but then it took only a week or 10 days in the kiln. That seems really fast to me but they said POC dries fast and stable. But then it took me a while to get down to pick it up. Anyway, I borrowed a trailer from a friend this week, rented a full sized pickup truck (Ute to you folks?) to haul it, and here it is.



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It was worth the wait. I sprung for some what is known here as "clear vertical grain" (CVG) boards, essentially quarter/rift sawn with no knots, for the doors that turned out really nice. These are twelve inches wide, 8 ft long, and 1 inch thick. (Sorry: 300 mm, 2450 mm, 25 mm). I have five of them. They will make lovely door and window shutter panels.



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And some CVG stock for the door rails and stiles. I hand planed a little spot to show the grain.



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The rest is a grade called "small tight knot", STK, which is what I've been using for the frame. Now I have to figure out where and how to store everything before it starts raining again. Gloriously dry and sunny but cool this week. It won't last. Here in Oregon it rains from November to May most days. Not a lot of rain at one time, but often.

GRadice
26th November 2022, 02:36 PM
While I'm working on the tenons for the tops of the posts (three done, three to do) I thought I'd mention how I'm thinking of installing the door or doors. Probably one sliding door but it could be two sliding bypass doors.

Since I've never done this before my original thought was to follow Len Brackett's design described in Peggy Rao Sander's book Building the Japanese House Today (written for a North American audience). Here is the plan section from the book showing how the glass panel door(s) fit between the frame posts.

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And an elevation showing how the sliding tracks and sill would work:

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When I showed this design to my American guru/adviser on Japanese carpentry he said it would work but perhaps would not be as weather resistant as a design he prefers that moves the doors to an applied exterior jamb. Exterior jambs are used in traditional Japanese construction to mount amado or what we might call in America "shutters." In Japan these are usually solid, windowless or louvered panels that cover and protect the more delicate shoji panels.

Here is a video that shows how amado move on tracks and can elegantly negotiate an interior corner.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwH8-0aghgQ

My friend suggested that for my shed, I could apply an exterior jamb for the doors as is done for amado. That would help protect the shed frame and be both more more weather resistant and more readily repairable years ahead. Here is my rough elevation sketch of what he suggested.
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And how it might look in 3D

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I'm at the stage where I have to work out the details since that will require some further joinery on the posts. i welcome suggestions and advise.

GRadice
28th November 2022, 09:58 AM
All of the stepped tenons are done.

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rwbuild
28th November 2022, 01:00 PM
There is no doubt about it, there is an insane amount of joinery in this project, your satisfaction level when completed will be off the scale

GRadice
12th December 2022, 01:42 PM
Yes, the shed is just an excuse to do the joinery. If I get a functioning shed out of it, that will be a bonus.

I'm working now on the nuki, which are horizontal boards joined between the posts. There will be six of them at about 2m, three at about 9m, and two at about 1m, all with half dovetails on each end. Here are some of the 2m boards. Just a saw cut on the vertical. I chose to chisel and pare the slopes.

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I think I showed this before but if not, here is the post mortise with a test tenon to show how these will be wedged in place on assembly. I've cut all but one pair to have the wedge on the upper surface, but one of them will be placed upside down from that. It works both ways.

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GRadice
14th December 2022, 01:15 PM
Restacked the timbers today to get ready for the next steps. These have to be outdoors because I don't have other space inside, but under canopy and tarps and off the ground. The view before it all was buttoned up.
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Sneak peek at my roof-in-a-box which was delivered at the end of the day. Unfortunately too late to unload and store today.

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I sincerely hope that the terne (tin coated stainless steel) panels are in there, and not, as my neighbor suspected, a corpse.

GRadice
18th December 2022, 12:30 PM
Nope, not a corpse. About 14 meters squared of terne roof panels, plus drip edges and ridge cap.

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GRadice
20th December 2022, 01:59 PM
I started milling the Port Orford cedar boards for the jambs for the sliding doors. I was advised to get clear and straight wood to avoid warping that could bind the door travel. I spent extra to get these and I'm glad I did. These are jointed on two adjacent surfaces to prepare for ripping and planing. Wonderful stock so I sure hope I don't screw this up.

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GRadice
31st December 2022, 02:29 PM
Still plugging away but nothing exciting. I've milled stock for the rafters working it down slowly to adjust for wood movement. The target cross section is 50mm x 65 mm and these are still a couple of mm over that both ways. Next up are the floor joists at near the same dimensions. These might seem small but they will be on 300 mm centers and only ~1 m spans.

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I'm also fussing about the door and window designs. My first idea was to have glass in the doors for extra light in the shed, then no glass since the shed is mostly for storage, then back to glass since I didn't like the look of solid wood doors. I won't show all the variations I considered but here I am now:
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GRadice
19th January 2023, 02:02 PM
Happy New Year, all. Got the rafters dimensioned except for length. Floor joists, too. But no joinery on those until the frame is up in...June?

Now on to the barge boards/barge rafters/hafu. I have them dimensioned, too (130 x 50) except for length. They are beautiful boards. I did the layout for the joinery at the peak today and hope to start cutting wood tomorrow.

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I've also been fussing over a lock system for the two sliding bypass doors and would welcome any advice. It needs to be locked only from the outside. I'm thinking about a single plunge lock in the center stiles that would lock the doors to each other rather than mortice locks on the sides to lock the doors to the posts. Similar to what I think is going on in Toshio Odate's studio doors. But I'm open to other solutions.

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GRadice
21st January 2023, 01:59 PM
Layed out the barge board joinery yesterday and today. Sometimes using the metric Japanese framing square and sometimes using a Japanese square set to Imperial (avert your eyes!). The roof slope is 4.5/10.

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Some of the layout, with a few mistaken lines still to erase. I've learned the hard way not to leave those stray lines.

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springwater
21st January 2023, 07:29 PM
Happy new year to you too. Thanks a lot for showing your work it’s such a pleasure to watch.

GRadice
24th January 2023, 01:36 PM
Yes, it is an interesting world when some old guy in a small town in the northwest of the USA decides to build a Japanese timber framed structure, posts a few pictures online, and a guy in some town in Australia follows along. I'm glad I live today.

Here are a few pix of cutting out one set of barge board joints. I will admit I made a couple of layout mistakes, none fatal, but ego-bruising. I can correct on the other set of boards.

1. The joint is asymmetrical which adds to the difficulty. Here is the left hand board viewed from the back side. I first cut to a line at the end of what will be a tongue. I clamped on a saw guide, not really necessary since this surface won't be seen.

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2. Then layed out the end grain lines for the tongue and sawed the shoulder and cheek on one side.

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3. Then sawed and chiseled the waste on the other side. The inside angle meant I could not do it with saw alone.

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4. Then I used a router and some supporting boards to level the deck of the large tenon since the sawn surface, with my skills anyway, is not level enough. One could use a router for the whole job but I hate the noise and mess. One could use planes and chisels alone for this but a router is much faster. I compromised.
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5. Then chisel out a groove for the tongue that will be made on the mating board.

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6. The mating board is simpler since there is no internal angle but the process is much the same. Saw, level, chisel out a groove for the matching tongue.

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Then make any adjustments needed to get the miter to fit tight. The assembly looks huge here in my garage. Each board is a bit longer than 2 m and they barely fit on my bench. It took all day today to get it (mostly) right.

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