fire safety regulator?

[The Spin Doctor]

I live in QLD and wondering if there is a fire safety regulator. I bought 6, 10 year smoke alarms and all have failed in about a year. Bought 6 more to replace them but a better more expensive model from the same maker... The last one just failed, just shy of two years.

I google the reviews on them and they are simply garbage. The company is well know in australia and brags of supplying the home market with quality safety products. They sell tonnes of these through the biggest hardware and timber companies in australia - yo know who!!!

Their smoke alarms aren't just a failed quality issue, they're a safety issue. People are installing these thinking they're now protect when they're not. The failure rate is well over 50%. They need to be reported and possibly forced to do a recall.

Is there somewhere I can report these jokers?

[rwbuild]

How have they failed? Describe the test method(s) used to determine that they have failed.

[The Spin Doctor]

They don't activate when the button to test is pressed as per instructions. They are simply dead, even though they say the battery is a 10 year life span. They activate at random times when there is clearly no issues that should have set them off. Neither dust or humidity... is a problem. Attempts to reset doesn't stop them going off at random times, you simply have to remove and toss them.

Quells solutions: vacuum and reset every month...

Google their reviews, look at their facebook page, it's all anyone that writes on their page is asking - why has my smoke detector(s) failed and or screaming at me for no reason in such a short time...

Considering how bad they are performing, how can they be relied upon to actually work when needed?? Yes they can be returned but they should be recalled.

[Wrongwayfirst]

https://www.qfes.qld.gov.au/contact-us/online-enquiry

send off an enquiry, you may get help or ignored but have a try,
cheers

[Mobyturns]

They don't activate when the button to test is pressed as per instructions. They are simply dead, even though they say the battery is a 10 year life span. They activate at random times when there is clearly no issues that should have set them off. Neither dust or humidity... is a problem. Attempts to reset doesn't stop them going off at random times, you simply have to remove and toss them.

Quells solutions: vacuum and reset every month...

Google their reviews, look at their facebook page, it's all anyone that writes on their page is asking - why has my smoke detector(s) failed and or screaming at me for no reason in such a short time...

Considering how bad they are performing, how can they be relied upon to actually work when needed?? Yes they can be returned but they should be recalled.

I had a similar experience with 5 units with "10 year batteries" from a well known brand that we installed. First two failed - randomly alarming mostly at 2 am ish and could not be reset. As I had proof of purchase I returned them for a warranty replacement, firstly the retailer refused replacement. So I contacted the company directly, they instructed me to return them to the retailer with a copy of their email, replaced under warranty with no issues.

Installed the two new units, then the other 3 progressively failed. None of the original units lasted any where near 5 years! Had enough of them and asked for a refund and not a replacement which the company did not contest, so we got our money back. Purchased and installed a more well known competitors product and have had no issues since. The units are installed in exactly the same places as the previous units.

We provide pre & after school care for our two grand daughters so no mucking about with safety. I agree - it is a major safety issue and the importer should be forced to recall them. I did contact the Office of Fair Trading about the matter. It seems there are not enough reports of failures, so no recall is warranted apparently.

[rwbuild]

OK, so others have had same experience with the same brand, go get your refund and purchase a different brand as noted above.
The fire brigades all recommend that the batteries are changed at least every year and preferably twice a year ie: start and finish of daylight saving.
Anyone who believes a battery has a 10yr life is kidding themselves.

[jack620]

I had a similar experience with 5 units with "10 year batteries" from a well known brand that we installed.
.
.
Purchased and installed a more well known competitors product and have had no issues since.

Why the reluctance to name the brands? You can't be sued for saying the first brand's product failed. Especially given they acknowledged the failures. And you won't be sued for saying the replacement brand's units haven't failed.

[havabeer69]

Sounds more like a consumer affairs issue, not a fire safety issue. They're probably meeting the test specs but not "fit for purpose" quality wise.

[Wrongwayfirst]

OK, so others have had same experience with the same brand, go get your refund and purchase a different brand as noted above.
The fire brigades all recommend that the batteries are changed at least every year and preferably twice a year ie: start and finish of daylight saving.
Anyone who believes a battery has a 10yr life is kidding themselves.

new QLD Regs implemented January this year state smoke detectors be either 240v hard wired or battery with 10 year life.
maybe QLD have gone down this path as they don’t have daylight savings:U

[Mobyturns]

Why the reluctance to name the brands? You can't be sued for saying the first brand's product failed. Especially given they acknowledged the failures. And you won't be sued for saying the replacement brand's units haven't failed.

Surely you must be joking??? No they did not acknowledge the failures - they offered a replacement to an unhappy customer to "make them go away" - a vastly different scenario - they have never acknowledged a failure in any of the communications I have received.

My family and I have a comfortable life - so I'm not about to risk that over ~$200 worth of "stuff." Even if you are 100% truthful, and can support you "alleged claims" (& that is all they are) the legal process can chew you up and spit you out!

I've alerted the authorities about my concerns. They have made an assessment on if a recall is warranted. How do they make that assessment? Most likely on the number of reports / complaints received as there seems to be less and less "compliance testing" by regulators with an over reliance upon self regulation and the manufacturers quality control processes.

A company sells say 10 million devices and the OFT receives reports from consumers of say 200 faulty devices - well within manufacturing statistical limits. How many are unreported, or undiscovered??? Things won't change if consumers are not being responsible and reporting faulty devices, because the manufacturers won't do a wholesale recall unless forced too.

Look up "product recalls" for smoke detectors / smoke alarms on your state OFT web site or the ACCC - not many and one is from a very well respected brand. So how do we interpret that? Either they are a responsible company who care about safety over profits and self notified? or were forced to recall the devices?

[BobL]

We have 2 Quells in the house and have had 2 in the shed. For each alarm the first thing I did was replace the battery - who knows how long they have been on the shelf and like Rwbuild says, the idea of batteries lasting 10 years is dubious. I do use up the old batteries in other things.

The alarm in the hallway (more sensitive) is about 10 years old, while the one in the kitchen (less sensitive) is ~5 years old - both seem to work fine. The hallway alarm goes off if a person leaves the bathroom door open while taking a shower and doesn't turn on the bathroom extractor fan. The less sensitive alarm in the kitchen goes off when I burn the dog food which I have done a few times, accompanied by threats from SWMBO to be sent off to an aged care facility.

The first "sensitive" type Quell alarm I installed in the shed became increasingly dust/smoke sensitive over about a 3 year period. It would understandably readily trigger whenever I did some welding and did not have fume extraction running. Even with fume extraction, after extended welding, some fumes must have escaped because it would still occasionally trigger. If I didn't turn on wood dust extraction that would also sometimes set it off. Over time that alarm became increasing problematic, going off at odd times even when I was not making any dust, or even in the shed. Eventually would not stop beeping so I had to remove the battery. I replaced it with another sensitive Quell but it did the same thing, but this time over about 18 months. However, it was also doing a period when I was doing more welding.

What I think happens is if they become dust contaminated then small changes in humidity will set them off.

I recently replaced the shed alarm with a less sensitive Kitchen type Family First alarm, so far so good, although I have not done any welding since. I have also installed one of those alarms in my study/electronics room in the house on the ceiling above where my 3D printer is located. This alarm is also close to where I use soldering irons.

It's worth noting that the fumes generated by small amounts of normal spot soldering doesn't seem to trigger this alarm. However, it does trigger if I melt ~10 mm of solder while holding the alarm about 250mm directly above the soldering iron. FWIW I have up to 3 particle counters running in my study and that amount of soldier melting will usually the PM2.5 levels to around 100 µg/m^3. I do have a small HEPA filter solder fume extractor in my study and use it if I am doing an extended soldering session.

[jack620]

Surely you must be joking???

No, of course I'm not joking. You're reluctance to say "my brand X smoke detectors failed prematurely" because you're afraid of legal ramifications is bordering on paranoia. You ARE allowed to say that. Google Reviews wouldn't exist if you weren't.

[jack620]

they have never acknowledged a failure in any of the communications I have received.


They told you to return them to the retailer for replacement under warranty. That's an acknowledgement of failure.

[Mobyturns]

We have 2 Quells in the house and have had 2 in the shed. For each alarm the first thing I did was replace the battery - who knows how long they have been on the shelf and like Rwbuild says, the idea of batteries lasting 10 years is dubious.


I think people should get their facts straight here - "the idea of batteries lasting 10 years is dubious." :~

Depends upon the device, the battery, its application, service environment, priority (critical - life threatening to non-life threatening etc), duty cycle, maintenance ...... yadda, yadda ....
We are also talking about smoke alarms that do not have user replaceable batteries! :doh:

If you have the older replaceable 9v battery style of smoke alarms installed - you may be in contravention of current fire regulations. :B

$hit - I'm in real trouble then. :o as I have a defib that has been in my chest 3.5 years now and has an estimated 5.7 years of "service life" remaining. ""Service life" also takes into account the critical nature of the device and its capacity to "deliver an effective therapy" near end of "service life." That battery is checked every 6 months, continuously monitored, and will alarm if a threshold limit is exceeded ......

Smoke detectors / alarms should be checked at 6 monthly intervals and I would suggest "responsible" owners would do that more often and have designed redundancy in the event one (or more) smoke detectors / alarm devices fail. That is why regulations / standards are moving to mandatory interconnected devices.

[Mobyturns]

No, of course I'm not joking. You're reluctance to say "my brand X smoke detectors failed prematurely" because you're afraid of legal ramifications is bordering on paranoia. You ARE allowed to say that. Google Reviews wouldn't exist if you weren't.


I note the OP has taken the stance - not naming brands. So I'm not the only "paranoid" contributor. :D

Not paranoia at all, simply prudence the rewards, which btw are nil to me in this instance, are far outweighed by potential risk no matter how unlikely. :U

If you have had any interaction with the legal system you will understand how a lot of its "power" is linked to resources, and negotiation skills - bluff, power imbalance, ambit claims, and "without prejudice" settlements.

[Mobyturns]

They told you to return them to the retailer for replacement under warranty. That's an acknowledgement of failure.

That is your interpretation but imho is simply untrue. I respect your interpretations and would appreciate a similar outlook from other contributors. Robust debate is healthy.

No acknowledgement of failure was ever given - expressly or implied - they were simply offering an unhappy customer a remedy under the ACL as a responsible retailer.

Did they have an obligation to, or were they offering a resolution in excess of their obligations? another point of interpretation. It is pure conjecture how wide spread this "alleged issue" of failures is!

I shared my experience to illustrate that there is a course of action available that achieved an acceptable outcome for me in response to the question "Is there somewhere I can report these jokers?"

Rather than spray a company with "unsupported allegations" (another point of interpretation) on social media I chose to access the remedies available to me through firstly the retailer, then the importer - they honored and most likely exceeded their obligations under ACL.

The OFT and ACCC were firstly contacted for advice on how to proceed and then notified of a "potential fault" affecting the devices.

IF the alleged failures are as widespread as the social media commentary suggests - then something should be done about a recall - that will only happen if the company is forced to recall the devices. No notifications of failures, means an under reported fault, which means no action by the OFT or ACCC. Simple!

[BobL]

I recently replaced the shed alarm with a less sensitive Kitchen type Family First alarm, so far so good, although I have not done any welding since. I have also installed one of those alarms in my study/electronics room in the house on the ceiling above where my 3D printer is located. This alarm is also close to where I use soldering irons..

Over the last week I started having problems with the shed fire alarm (it's only about 4 months old) that was triggering occasionally for what seemed no reason (like just after I opened the door in the mornings?), and finally this morning it would not stop beeping so had to take the battery out. I found the receipt andwas going to take it back to the store but decided to have a look inside.

513560
I cleaned the dust out and it now works fine again!

Now I have to admit I have been doing a lot of sanding in the last few months (grandson's desk, charcuterie board and other bibs and bobs).
I'm using a shop vac on the sander, but there's been a fair bit of hand sanding, and mostly running the ventilation fan while doing both.
BUT
The alarm is located in the air path between the bench where the sanding occurs. and the ventilation fan inlet.
So it looks like I'll need to find a new location for the alarm.

I read some of the myriad of poor reviews of fire alarms sold by Bunnings - very depressing and I'm surprised they haven't done something about this. While there are clearly some issues with batteries - the many cases where the alarm won't tun off sounds like it could just be a dust issue. I was surprised this was hardly mentioned. Taking mine apart was easy with a flat blade screwdriver but I suspect some alarms cannot be open right up as shown above.