Attempting my first kitchen build - feedback much appreciated!

[astur]

Hi All

I'm attempting my first kitchen build for a new place I am building. I've built kitchens before under supervision of more senior cabinet makers, but this will be my first attempt solo.

Below is a 3d image of what the kitchen will look like:
kitchen.png - Google Drive (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lmwIemo1UTKZ-8kc7n-PcsLWn4M4pU37/view?usp=sharing)

I've also drafted plans and a cut list which can be found here:
Kitchen.pdf - Google Drive (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oQZOXJsTPVYJ7e78JH7bqVDgV3XKcVEl/view?usp=sharing)

Would welcome any reviews or comments people have!


In terms of equipment:

Need some help with the type of cutting equipment I need. When I've built kitchens in the past I've had the luxury of big panel saws which I can't afford to buy.

Melamine and laminex sheets typically come in 2.4m x 1.2m. Was thinking I'll need a track saw to cut these down to something manageable then a table saw to perform the final cuts. Any tips of what makes/models/blades I should buy?

Also, was thinking of buying an edgebanding machine (don't really want to use an iron over and over again) and a bench drill for accuracy.

I have drills/sanders/squares/levels/measuring tapes etc.

Anything else you think I'll need?

Thanks

[Camelot]

Hi Astur,

You could cut all your panels to size using a track saw, just make yourself a measuring rod and use that instead of a tape measure, this should help make your cuts consistent.

With your base units set the back panel in by say 30mm this will give you a void against the wall for running pipes/wire and you will be able to scribe the units to the wall should it be out of line.

[addyau]

Maybe you want to do every step by yourself, and that is awesome, but why not utilise the service of the timber place where you're buying your melamine to do the cuts for you? The cost is relatively minimal and they can do the edge banding for you as well.

Addy

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[astur]

Thanks for the reply! There is only a stove on the back wall so no pipes, plus I'd run those in the wall cavity (as I have that luxury).

With a track saw, I'm just mindful of having to set it up over and over again, which add alot of time to the build. I've worked out that if I can get a table saw with a 1.25m rip length, then this will speed things up significantly. The only ones I can find in AU though have ~600mm rip width which sucks.

[astur]

Thanks for the replies. Great advice.

With a tracksaw I'm just mindful that I'll spend alot of time setting it up over and over again. I'm trying to find a table saw with a >1100mm rip width which would do most of my cuts, but struggling to find that in AU.

I could ask them to cut, but knowing me I will screw up a dimension (or 5? lol) and have to go back there and cut again. Cutting myself allows me flexibility with mistakes

[Simplicity]

Echo what Andy said, it would make the job far easier an less stressful.

Cheers Matt.

[addyau]

Thanks for the replies. Great advice.

With a tracksaw I'm just mindful that I'll spend alot of time setting it up over and over again. I'm trying to find a table saw with a >1100mm rip width which would do most of my cuts, but struggling to find that in AU.

I could ask them to cut, but knowing me I will screw up a dimension (or 5? lol) and have to go back there and cut again. Cutting myself allows me flexibility with mistakesIt does take some forward planning if ordering as the edging is approx 1mm thick, so you need to account for that when calculating sizes.
In a kitchen build, not many panels should be wider than 600mm (typical benchtop depth with overhang). However ripping long panels accurately is a challenge.

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[astur]

Yeah I think I’ll cut it myself. Any recommendations for a table saw with a 50” rip width? Was hoping not to spend more than 1k, but all the mainstream ones have a rip width over max 700mm

[groeneaj]

I’d go a good quality track saw with parallel guides. If you have a cut list you could just set up the guides and batch them out.

[Bernmc]

Do a forum search. There's been a fair amount of discussion around kitchens/cutting/banding - it won't be specific to yours, but its good general advice.
Easiest, quickest and most accurate would be to farm out the cutlist to the local cabinet fabricator, who will do it all, and probably at close to the same price you'd pay buying the boards alone.
For the DIY route (which is why we play on these forums), consistency wins over accuracy, so batch your cuts, set your table saw or track guides to each cut width, and do all the same cuts at that setting. Simple MDF jigs for a track saw and guiderail would work perfectly well for this.
Edge banding is trickier - you'll be spending a bit of money for a machine. Five grand for a Conturo? Even 2nd hand looks like a few thousand for a machine...

The other alternative would be to go for one of the more modern manufactured panels - like valchromat (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=valchromat) - if you can find one in a suitable colour. However, you'd still need to finish these, so you'll end up spending your time & dollars on that instead.

[astur]

Thanks for the reply, but I think I'll invest in a table saw, I need to build wardrobes, bathroom vanities, TV cabinets etc.

I noticed none of them have a pony blade (to cut the melamine before it gets to the main blade which cuts the sheet itself), is this a problem with getting clean cuts from table saws?

What sort of blade is recommended for clean melamine cuts?

[Chief Tiff]

I’ve never found a blade to cut melamine covered particle board that doesn’t chip out on one side; only the big panel saws with scribing blades seem to work and that is why everybody here is recommending having them cut and edge banded by a professional cabinet maker. I have however made many cabinets using just a Triton Workcentre by carefully planning the cutting order to ensure that all the edges that will chip are subsequently hidden from view. For edges that are still going to be visible afterwards I leave them 2mm oversized and then use a router to bring them to size; the router cutter leaves a smooth clean edge.

[riverbuilder]

The only way to get clean cuts on the modern thin melamine board is with a sliding table saw with a scribing blade. Buy a nice secondhand Altendorf or similar and go for your life. Don’t waste your money on a single blade small cabinet saw. Alternatively, spend $100,000 on a nice cnc router and it can do it all, including drilling all your holes.

The advice given to farm out your cutting and edging to a professional company is well founded and smart, I do it as well and I have a massive panel saw already, those guys buy the board in pack quantity and get it far,far cheaper than you or I ever could. Plus, manhandling 8’x4’ sheets around and onto a saw isn’t easy on your own, believe me I’ve done it heaps of times in my 53 years of being a joiner.

[Camelot]

Thanks for the reply, but I think I'll invest in a table saw, I need to build wardrobes, bathroom vanities, TV cabinets etc.

I noticed none of them have a pony blade (to cut the melamine before it gets to the main blade which cuts the sheet itself), is this a problem with getting clean cuts from table saws?

What sort of blade is recommended for clean melamine cuts?

It's called a scribe blade not a pony and they come on panel saws and they are the blade that cut more fingers than the main blade.

The thing with a panel saw is the footprint is much bigger than a table saw and you would be spending $2K upwards for a second-hand machine and they are going to be 3 phase.

If you can use CAD software, then best to draw up your design and then workout your cutting list allowing for the edge banding, also without an edge banding machine you are going to have to go with the pre glued iron on, which in your first post you said you didn't like, but again most quality edge banders are 3 phase.

[astur]

Well I have 3 phase power and a large garage I can put a panel saw into, so that’s no problem. There’s heaps for sale second hand in my area for about 2-3k. My concern is available parts and blades for these second hand machines may be scarce. Any recommendations for makes/models?

I checked some price lists and most places charge $5 per cut. If I add this up over the entire kitchen, all the vanities and robes I need to build, this would outweigh the cost of a machine.

Otherwise I can use cad to sketch it all up and pass it onto them.

[Camelot]

Well I have 3 phase power and a large garage I can put a panel saw into, so that’s no problem. There’s heaps for sale second hand in my area for about 2-3k. My concern is available parts and blades for these second hand machines may be scarce. Any recommendations for makes/models?

I checked some price lists and most places charge $5 per cut. If I add this up over the entire kitchen, all the vanities and robes I need to build, this would outweigh the cost of a machine.

Otherwise I can use cad to sketch it all up and pass it onto them.

I managed to buy a 1988 Altendorf F45 with hydraulic rise/fall plus tilt for $2.5K, the hydraulic's had just been repaired and serviced by previous owner, hydraulic is a real luxury over using hand wheel. Altendorf are a good quality saw and little to go wrong with them and you can still get parts

[david.elliott]

I did some sums some time ago and found that at that time the difference between buying all the materials, banding, hinges, feet etc. for a 450 wide pantry was $15.00 less that a flatpack. And then I had to cut, drill, glue etc.,all accurately. Not worth the time and pressure. And I have a scribing panel saw. I did several kitchens with the Masters flatpacks and when required I trimmed a larger cabinet down to fit our design. With a bit of planning the "chipped" edge when trimming down can be on the outside, so unseen. I did it with a GP sawblade in my saw with no scribe. This way is fast, easy, clean and accurate. I then make fancy or plain doors for them. I found those flatpacks to be great quality with AU made melamine. They can still be purchased on order from Mitre 10 or Home Hardware. Did that with my last laundry refurb. Only 10 or so cabs so quite easy.

[riverbuilder]

Altendorf
sicar
SCM
Martin
all of these will do what you want, and will be worth the same amount when you’re finished and want to sell it.
Blades are readily available from any good saw doctor.
About the only thing that could go wrong is a broken belt, readily available at bearing shops.

[astur]

Thanks for the replies. Unfortunately flat packing will not work for me due to custom dimensions.

Any recommendations on the models for those brands? I’ll probably need one with a scoring saw too

[astur]

So some more research, I’ve found a proper melamine blade that seems to work pretty well with chip free cuts and double sided melamine.

https://www.timbecon.com.au/industrial-two-sided-melamine-cut-off-circular-saw-blades

All I would need to do now is find a table saw with a large rip capacity to cut some of the bigger pieces. Was thinking something like this

https://www.timbecon.com.au/sherwood-12in-hybrid-cabinet-table-saw

The benefit of buying this over a panel saw is obviously foot print, cost and the fact that it’s new.

Has anyone used this type of setup before?

[riverbuilder]

You obviously are good at reading things on the internet,which is written generally by salespeople who have never actually used the gear they are selling, whereas the people who have years of experience doing the type of work you think you want to do that have answered your questions are speaking with knowledge gained from this experience. You choose which to listen to. I’m not wasting any more of my time answering.

[astur]

You obviously are good at reading things on the internet,which is written generally by salespeople who have never actually used the gear they are selling, whereas the people who have years of experience doing the type of work you think you want to do that have answered your questions are speaking with knowledge gained from this experience. You choose which to listen to. I’m not wasting any more of my time answering.

That's not a very helpful response. I have taken on all the feedback here, including trying go down the flat pack route, using an external workshop to cut pieces down to size and looking at the panel saw with scribe solution.

This was just another thing I found in my travels. The reason I'm asking on here is because you're right, the videos and material is written by people who want to flog the product, I'm asking as to whether anyone has used it to share their experience.

It's just another alternative.