Newbie

[V Restrorations]

G,day.

I am starting out as an Australian Luthier. I restore antique stringed instruments but am very keen to start making my own. I live in a small mountain village and like to do things myself from scratch. I make my own pigments, rosin and varnishes from what my local forest has to offer. All of these things can be purchased of course; however I believe that harvesting local natural products gives me the opportunity to offer something unique. I am very keen to learn as much as I can about what my local timbers have to offer. I wish to harvest, mill, season and process these wonderful resources that I have on hand.

I hope I can get some valuable advice from some experienced people.

Regards

Brian

[cava]

Welcome Brian, I hope you enjoy the ride.

Care to expand on the secrets of the pigment and rosins manufacture and how you use them? I would be most interested.

George

[verawood]

Welcome Brian

[crowie]

G'Day & Welcome to a top forum "Brian" .....
There are quite a good few members around Hunter region and cross NSW plus the rest of the country.....
You'll find a heap of helpful & knowledgeable blokes & ladies on the forum and for most very willing to assist.
Make sure you show off your handiwork as everyone loves a photo, especially WIP [Work In Progress] photos with build notes.
Enjoy the forum.
Enjoy your woodwork......
Cheers crowie

[KeithP]

Welcome to the forum.

Regards
Keith

[V Restrorations]

G,day.

In regards to pigments, I have been making lake pigments from flowers using a base and precipitating with a metal salt, ( I have been using Alum). These I test for light fastness by simply applying some of each to samples and exposing them to direct sunlight for a couple of days. Not all have been successful of course and the resulting colors are quite surprising; some blues for example produce a forest green as the end product. The PH very much effects the end product. I would recommend trying it out as it is very interesting.

I have also been experimenting with ethanol as a solvent. I mainly use this to yield actual varnishes that produce a polymer layer. My first of these was Xanthorrea ( Grass tree) resin which is beautiful and was used in colonial times as a shellac substitute. I have also found that the bark of Stringy bark produces a very nice mellow orange color which seems the polymerize well. There are many other experiments I have been working on in regards to staining with both water and alcohol as solvents.

As far as rosin is concerned, I only have one species of pine growing in the area, (Pinus brutia) or Gallipoli pine. I simply researched all I could on the subject but I discovered, as with varnishes that it all seems a bit shrouded in mystery and it's not so easy to get straight foreword answers to a lot of things. The most common methods I found for making rosin seemed quite convoluted and frankly dangerous that I thought that I would try to simplify the procedure which to my surprise has worked quite well. Just to note, I am making rosin for use on violin bows so there is quite a lot of tinkering involved and there is the addition of other ingredients but hey, it seems to be working fine and each batch I make is a learning experience. I inadvertently stumbled into restoring orchestral instruments and have discovered that in that world they have very definite ideas and expectations; there is not a lot of room for experimentation and they only really accept the use of two timbers, of course that is spruce and maple.

I f you would like more detailed information about My experiment I would be happy to write something up and include pictures. Bare in mind that I am self taught and this is a continuing journey for me, I am no expert.

Regards

Brian

[cava]

Thanks Brian.

Personally, I am very interested in the rosin manufacturing process and any information would be well received.

George

[old1955]

Welcome to the forum.

[V Restrorations]

Hi George,

Being new to this forum I'm not quite sure of the rules. Is it alright for me to post photos yet? If so I will post some of my varnishes and pigments.
Just to note, I do use dedicated lab equipment but I see no reason why these processes cannot be further simplified as long as the volatility of the solvents are kept to a minimum and the use of open flame is omitted. The first tutorials I came across all used acetone as the primary solvent they seemed to take hours and required many steps; I can do it in two steps in under an hour with just cheap quality ethanol. I use a lab hot plate capable of very high temperatures but that can be compensated for with time. You first have to evaporate the alcohol which has a vapor point of only 75 degrees and then the turpene's. The whole process is quite visual and each chemical compound tends to have a distinct odor and behavior. For some of the varnishes I use a distillation set up but that is not really necessary unless you want to re-collect the solvent. I just noticed that we can post a video, that may be the best option. Give me a little bit of time and I will put something together as that will most likely be the best option.

Regards

Brian

[JJF]

Welcome aboard Brian

[BobL]

I do use dedicated lab equipment but I see no reason why these processes cannot be further simplified as long as the volatility of the solvents are kept to a minimum and the use of open flame is omitted. The first tutorials I came across all used acetone as the primary solvent they seemed to take hours and required many steps; I can do it in two steps in under an hour with just cheap quality ethanol. I use a lab hot plate capable of very high temperatures but that can be compensated for with time. You first have to evaporate the alcohol which has a vapor point of only 75 degrees and then the turpene's. The whole process is quite visual and each chemical compound tends to have a distinct odor and behavior. For some of the varnishes I use a distillation set up but that is not really necessary unless you want to re-collect the solvent.

Sounds potentially dangerous, do you use some form of forced ventilation to extract the fumes?

I have i mind a friend of my dad who used to distill his own grappa. To keep the smell from wafting all over the neighbourhood he did this in a small spare room which he kept sort of sealed. One day while distilling he entered the room and after minute or two passed out. Luckily his son just happened to see the spare room door ajar and stuck his head in and saw dad on the floor and call his mum and they managed to drag him outside and revive him. He refused to go to hospital. My Dad reckons he was never quiet the same since.

[V Restrorations]

Sounds potentially dangerous, do you use some form of forced ventilation to extract the fumes?

I have i mind a friend of my dad who used to distill his own grappa. To keep the smell from wafting all over the neighbourhood he did this in a small spare room which he kept sort of sealed. One day while distilling he entered the room and after minute or two passed out. Luckily his son just happened to see the spare room door ajar and stuck his head in and saw dad on the floor and call his mum and they managed to drag him outside and revive him. He refused to go to hospital. My Dad reckons he was never quiet the same since.

Hi Bob,

Yes there is always the potential for danger. The lab equipment keeps the fumes contained within the vessel which has a refulx condenser that has a water jacket cooled with ice water. The product remains in the sealed vessel and it is only the solvent fumes that are a potential issue there, but it is cold when it comes out so usually much lower than the vapor point. You should always wear the correct P.P.E and when it come to an open vessel process it is better to do so outdoors and with fans to blow the fumes away, again the correct P.P.E should always be worn. After some time experimenting I found that taking into account, volume over temperature, the timing of the process is very predictable so you do not have to sit there and expose yourself for the entire period. It is really only at the very end of the process that you have to carefully watch the behavior of the final rosin and or varnish. So yes it has a deal of risk however that can be significantly reduced with the correct precautions.

Regards

Brian