NSW Racial tension............. [Archive] - Page 2

RETIRED

14th December 2005, 05:26 PM

Hi , was I censored on my post last night?
Probably fair enough if so. Guess I didnt adhere to my own sentiment's as stated at the begining of the thread :o.

Now I know why the back of my neck really hurts, must be from that well tuned axe! :D
Yep.

Gingermick

14th December 2005, 07:59 PM

I hope that all the coppers that were injured make full recoveries.

E. maculata

14th December 2005, 08:07 PM

Maybe the state government could push legislation through forcing journos' and their bosses into riot gear and a front of our blokes in blue at the front line during flare ups like this.
Sooner or later the media must examine itself surely :(

mutanti

14th December 2005, 08:32 PM

Havnt been here much latley...
As I posted in Another Forum

Put them all in a paddock at let them go for it, Both lebbos and Aussies.

Just leave the people that have nothing to do with it alone.
the ones that should be paying for this are first the lebbos that attacked the lifeguards in the first place and the other ones that are of unruley behaviour by spitting on people etc....
and
second the Aussies that are just as bad as they are...
leave the normal people out of it...

My 2 Cents...

Gingermick

14th December 2005, 08:43 PM

IMHO the religion thing is just a stereotype. And each group wants to back up the religion that they aren't even part of so the other can't get one on them. Just that one group relates to the mosque the other to the other place.:confused:
And violent deekheads are violent deadheads, wherever they are from. As that is likely to have been said here before I apologise.

ernknot

14th December 2005, 09:42 PM

These guys have too much testosterone. Bring back national service. Young men of that age need to vent their feelings in some way. This does not excuse that brainless element who consider themselves as anarchists. Governments also need to have a damn hard look at themselves and stop this social engineering crap and political corectness garbage. We are rapidly going away from being a democracy. Band aid legislation just treats the symptons and does nothing for the disease. It adds more restictions to the little bit of freedom we have left. It suits the news barons and politicians to call this mess "racial" when in fact it is theologicaly motivated and will not go away. It is very sad to see our Aussie values and life style being threatened by un Australian elements.
If they don't like the way we live send them back to wherever the hell they came from. We are too soft and because of that we are being taken advantage of. It is a sad Christmas season.

Studley 2436

14th December 2005, 11:57 PM

hmmmmmmm
Was reading yesterday the link provided earlier.

The copper there, I think his name is Price, wrote at length of the deterioration of the police force under Peter Ryan, of complaints to IAD being given too much cred in that the police arrested gang members who then complained. Mosque leaders spoke out the politically correct bunch got into it too and the police were given a slapping for doing their job. Pretty soon they just let the crims run loose.

He told also of people with no front line or street experience being promoted in the bureacratic system under Ryan. This increased the problem of police being unsure of how to manage events that happen. He spoke also of recruits leaving the academy and talking of making the difference counceling and the like which has nothing to do with police work. It is social work and the police should be charged only with maintaining law and order. To instruct them otherwise is to create an unfocussed and impotent force.

So I don't blame race or religion. People in charge who lacked the backbone to set standards, basically this is the law in australia and everyone obeys it. Culture has become an acceptable excuse for criminal behaviour. That is unacceptable. Politicians should be told as much. Judges likewise.

Stephen

silentC

15th December 2005, 12:13 AM

So I don't blame race or religion. People in charge who lacked the backbone to set standards, basically this is the law in australia and everyone obeys it. Culture has become an acceptable excuse for criminal behaviour. That is unacceptable. Politicians should be told as much. Judges likewise.
This is what I have been trying to say...

silentC

15th December 2005, 08:10 AM

whether we like it or not, (and I do) we are an Asian nation, or were last time I looked at an atlas.
Looks like at least one of the Asian countries doesn't like it either:

MALAYSIA has delivered a blow to Australia's East Asian aspirations, saying it is not part of East Asia and should not expect to become part of a future community.

The chairman of the inaugural East Asia summit, Malaysian leader Abdullah Badawi, who was never in favour of Canberra joining the summit, said Australia was not geographically part of East Asia and he did not see how it could regard itself as such.

Mr Badawi also named India and New Zealand as outsiders to East Asia but made special reference to Australia.

"You are talking about a community of East Asians; I don't know how the Australians could regard themselves as East Asians. We are not talking about being a member of the community, we are talking about common interests," Mr Badawi said. "We want to see stability and prosperity and [if] our friends are willing to contribute through such forums as EAS (East Asia summit) then certainly they will be welcome."

Rejected!!

Gingermick

15th December 2005, 08:10 AM

My other opinion is an excess of laws and regulations discourages people from taking responsibility. Some lazy parents dont think they need to take responsibility of their children after they stop breast feeding.
And the kids get wind of their 'rights' very early. "You can't tell me what to do" And that is just too hard for them to deal with.
Some of these people are 15-18. My eldest will be that age in 5 years and I will be insisting he behave in a way we consider apporpriate.

namtrak

15th December 2005, 08:23 AM

...... Leave the racist tripe back in the country you came from. It doesn't reflect well on us throughout the world......

Yeh, that would be nice but I reckon the majority of the nobs doing this are actually from Australia. Says a lot more about unemployment, cultural indifference, ignorance, alcohol and peer group pressure than anything else.

I was going to post a big diatribe about exactly what I thought, telling you all what I think but then I was worried that Lignum would tell me that I was part of the 50% that should be ashamed of themselves - don't want that sort of shame hanging around.....

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

kiwigeo

15th December 2005, 11:08 PM

Bodgies and Widgies anyone? What about Skins and Mods, or Locals vs Drop-ins, Carlton Crew vs Collingwood boys?

Woodies versus non Woodies.....Foilies versus Non Foilies??

Groggy

15th December 2005, 11:23 PM

I watched the special on SBS tonight and had an epifanny (a half arsed idea). That pollie on the show wanted it all to be about him, so, get rid of the bludger.

It seemed to me it was a gang and policing issue. If the police didn't have the numbers the gangs grew and intimidated the locals. That seems to have grown out of hand and been made worse by the idjits that want front line coppers to be social workers. They just don't seem to realise that a swift kick up the rear can do wonders to turn around an impressionable youth.

Tell the coppers to take control of the streets again, give 'em resources and the laws they need to do it and bolster the internal affairs (?) staff to keep an eye on them while they do it. Oh yeah, and review the legal system. It seems to be there to support lawyers and judges rather than to see justice administered (in both directions).

(minor rant mode /off)

graemet

16th December 2005, 07:58 PM

I was given a copy of the link put up by Silent, from another source. Well worth a read although it's 12 pages. http://www.quadrant.org.au/php/article_view.php?article_id=581
The news tonight talked about a police lockdown of beaches from Newcastle to Wollongong for the weekend, no go areas, roadblocks and car and body searches. A hundred years ago when I was a lad, a big sargeant copper could clout a young thug around the ear without fear of a police harrassment charge, and nip his career of crime in the bud. There was either respect or fear of the police depending on the type of contact you had with them, the open defiance from even those under arrest that is shown on tv, would never be contemplated. It must be a rite of passage to be shown giving the finger to all and sundry on the evening news (although they keep their faces covered). It's enough to make you think (fleetingly) of going to N'Zulund.
Just kidding(the last bit)
Graeme

julianx

16th December 2005, 10:38 PM

A hundred years ago when I was a lad, a big sargeant copper could clout a young thug around the ear without fear of a police harrassment charge, and nip his career of crime in the bud. There was either respect or fear of the police depending on the type of contact you had with them,
Graeme

A bit less than a hundred years ago when I was a lad, a couple of coppers could get drunk, pick up some young lad cos they didn't like the way he was dressed, strip search him, beat the crap out of him, threaten to "get it on with his girlfriend" without the fear of a police harrassment charge, and make him resent the police so much he considered a life in crime. But then I grew up under the Bjelkie Peterson.
Just giving the other side of the story.

We need to be very careful about giving police too much power

rick_rine

16th December 2005, 10:51 PM

Do I understand this right ? Have the police asked everyone to stay off the beaches this weekend ? What the ... is it comming to . :confused:

Groggy

16th December 2005, 11:37 PM

A bit less than a hundred years ago when I was a lad, a couple of coppers could get drunk, pick up some young lad cos they didn't like the way he was dressed, strip search him, beat the crap out of him, threaten to "get it on with his girlfriend" without the fear of a police harrassment charge, and make him resent the police so much he considered a life in crime. But then I grew up under the Bjelkie Peterson.
Just giving the other side of the story.

We need to be very careful about giving police too much powerI agree with your concerns but not with your conclusion. The police should have all the powers they need to deal with the circumstances presented to them. However, having been on the wrong side of Queensland police myself in my youth, I also agree with concern over them abusing their powers.

The balance I think is in the police being monitored closely for signs of abuse or excessive complaints. My preference would be to err on the side of the police than the gangs. It's not a simple fix.

maglite

17th December 2005, 01:32 AM

maglite

17th December 2005, 01:42 AM

The balance I think is in the police being monitored closely for signs of abuse or excessive complaints. My preference would be to err on the side of the police than the gangs. It's not a simple fix.

I too experienced the wrath of the QLD police, but i also gained a bit of respect as well.....or was i too #### scared to offend again....probably a bit of both.

Why isnt it a simple fix?
If you break the law, you get arrested and if the charge is found proven you go to jail...if not jail...work on a road gang......thats pretty simple.
It seems that a lot of these guys think themselves above the law.....send the cops out safe in the knowledge that they can crack a head or ten and not have some do gooder standing over him say you cant do this or that.
IMHO the do gooders have been given the last 25 years to prove that their point of veiw is the correct one.......they were wrong....they gave away any sence of authority that our protective services used to have.
I fear that it will be MUCH harder to regain than it was to give away!!!!

Studley 2436

17th December 2005, 02:25 AM

I don't think there is any real need to change the law. Police don't need sweeping new powers. What they need is focused and strong leadership. Likewise they need to be charged with enforcing the law. Social work belongs elsewhere as does making and keeping budgets.

Internal Affairs is a bit of a problem as Crims are very good at screaming that they have been harrassed every time they are charged. The worst crims are the ones most practiced at working the system. They shouldn't be allowed to do that however that is only a change of policy not of law to curtail that sort of thing.

I think there is a fair bit of Police officers not feeling confident in using the powers that they do have.

I am sure many of you remember the Milperra Massacre some years ago. What happened there an experienced Officer was the man on the ground at the scene. He arrested basically everyone for any charge he could so as to be able to detain and question them. Couldn't charge anyone with murder on the day but the statements led to convictions. Drunk and Disorderly, Offensive behaviour etc. Smart cops of yesteryear used that when they knew something bigger was up but didn't have evidence to charge the perpetrator. Suppose they did that early on the day last sunday, nab a few of the noisier ones make the others think twice, show that they won't tollerate loutish behaviour.

Studley

coastie

17th December 2005, 02:40 AM

For the first time the Neanderthal that was in the middle of everything was shown in close up.What a repulsive creature it was, he had his shirt off,full of grog,mouthing off about the country belonging to us Aussies,covered in body hair like an ape! My wife was revulsed at the sight of him!!
I'm glad he didn't speak for me! There he was on the same news bulletin mouthing off again apologising,this time saying he was not affected by alcohol,etc ,all nicely clean shaven and all. (Facially that is!)
Talk about The Ugly Australian!!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Iain

17th December 2005, 08:57 AM

My observation when working with socialist workers (not a typo) was that the number of problem people/families was directly proportionate to the number of case workers available in that particular area.
My other pet hate was going to court and watching these tossers giving a speech to the Magistrate or Judge wearing jeans, thongs and T shirts with some crap message.
If they get paid $45-50K a year, shouldn't they look like a professional?

Gingermick

17th December 2005, 09:20 AM

The nature of the bureaucracy in this country necessitates a revolution where power would be grabbed by, (I was going to say woodies, but after being a member of the local woodturning club and watching the pettiness and cr@p :mad: )

Groggy

17th December 2005, 10:08 AM

Why isnt it a simple fix?Simply because of the practicalities involved. Changing laws, politicians getting on their soapies, special interest groups will arc up and the media will go nuts - as usual - and confuse the whole issue.

If Australians get off their lazy bums and get stuck into the pollies for once - it will happen. History has shown that doesn't happen though, we're scared of change. That's probably why we've not been able to amend the Constitution.

bitingmidge

17th December 2005, 06:59 PM

If they get paid $45-50K a year, shouldn't they look like a professional?

Not everyone looks good in a red mini and thigh high boots Iain.

P
:confused:

adrian

19th December 2005, 11:56 AM

http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/ozatwar/bob.htm

Same stuff, different day.

silentC

19th December 2005, 12:20 PM

I spent the weekend in southern Sydney and spoke to a couple of people who were at Cronulla last Sunday. Interesting version of events and quite different to what was reported on the TV and in the papers. I'll be seeing a bloke who is a copper at Hurstville tonight and it will be interesting to hear his take on it.

Groggy

19th December 2005, 12:43 PM

...Interesting version of events and quite different to what was reported on the TV and in the papers. ...Gee, now there's a surprise !:rolleyes:

What bothers me is that people actually think reporting is fair and unbiased and don't give the situation a common sense check. 5,000 people rioting, in media terms, really means that in a crowd of 5,000 people there were a handful that acted disgracefully. These few were caught on camera and were acting up *for* the camera, sometimes at the request of the reporters (currently under investigation according to the ABC).

If the headlines were correct, and 5,000 had rioted, Sydney would still be burning.

E. maculata

19th December 2005, 12:51 PM

Sydney would still be burning.

And this would be a bad thing?

:p

silentC

19th December 2005, 12:52 PM

Gee, now there's a surprise !:rolleyes:

What bothers me is that people actually think reporting is fair and unbiased and don't give the situation a common sense check. 5,000 people rioting, in media terms, really means that in a crowd of 5,000 people there were a handful that acted disgracefully. These few were caught on camera and were acting up *for* the camera, sometimes at the request of the reporters (currently under investigation according to the ABC).

If the headlines were correct, and 5,000 had rioted, Sydney would still be burning.
That's pretty much what they told me. They were there with their 4 yo daughter. They saw most of what happened and what you saw on TV was the extent of it.

This is not to condone it in any way, shape or form. Targeting people because of their race is not on. The point is that all the beat up about how Sydney siders, and by extension Australians, are racist is utter crap. A handful of drunken idiots decided to take matters into their own hands. The ethnicity of the gangs that they were protesting against has nothing to do with it.

They've done their cause no good though because now the gang problems that they were protesting about have been buried under a wave of brow-beating over racism.

Max Ripper

24th February 2006, 11:09 AM

I could write ? pages full of replies from a white australian point of view ,but from some of what I have read australians are still kidding themselves.

PS Peter Costello latest statement sums it all up, be the 1st time I have agreed with a politician.

Max Ripper You don't wanna here the truth because it can't and never will be PoLiTiCaLly correct.

woodbe

24th February 2006, 11:30 AM

we're scared of change. That's probably why we've not been able to amend the Constitution.

Not picking on you Groggy, and you could be right, but we will never know while our pollies tie sucessful referenda to sinking boats and secret agendas.

Think about the Republic referendum. Instead of asking "Do you want a Republic, Yes/No' and offerring alternatives for those who choose Yes, (or even going away and coming back later with a properly researched set of options if the referendum was carried) We got asked if we wanted some bastardised version of a republic that had no hope of getting majority approval.

The fear of change is really fear of accidentally giving the pollies something to beat us with. Most people face up to change if they can see a good reason for it, even if they still resist it.

woodbe

Max Ripper

24th February 2006, 12:30 PM

la Huerta

24th February 2006, 03:35 PM

when this all happened a mate of mine in the US, emails me and says 'all this time i thought aussies were a quiet bunch of friendly sofisticated people', i replied, ' i thought so to'

silentC

24th February 2006, 03:40 PM

Tell him that one shouldn't judge a whole country based on the actions of a handful of it's citizens. Something any yank should be more than careful of.

Groggy

24th February 2006, 05:37 PM

Not picking on you Groggy, and you could be right, but we will never know while our pollies tie sucessful referenda to sinking boats and secret agendas.I couldn't agree more. It was their responsibility to ensure the information was at hand so the nation could decide. Instead, they torpedoed the thing while it sat in the docks. Whatever the reasons, Australians don't like to mess with the Constitution, it's a hysterical fact, well, historically speaking anyway...

Sturdee

24th February 2006, 06:14 PM

Whatever the reasons, Australians don't like to mess with the Constitution,

For us to get to vote on a referendum question it has to be agreed upon by the two major parties in both houses of parliament.

When there is such agreement by the major parties they are either trying to screw us out of some of our rights or increase their salaries. :eek:

Either way I don't trust them when they all agree and would reject any of their referendum proposals.:mad:

Peter.

la Huerta

24th February 2006, 06:17 PM

just relax, he know this, i think just about everyone know theres always a few bad apples in every barrel (something like that)

la Huerta

24th February 2006, 07:11 PM

unfortunitly human history tell us that there is always one group/race/religon/whatever who does'nt like the other...this battle has gone on since the begining and propably will until the end, why can't we all just get along, after all, this is not 'war of the worlds' we all come from the same damm place...