Oscillating Belt Sander Experiences

[jonsey850]

Hi All

I recently purchased a generic oscillating belt sander like in the link below.

L903 - Slik 7.0b Oscillating Belt Sander | Hare & Forbes Machineryhouse (https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L903?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg4ra7u2l9AIVNpJmAh0Pnwy5EAQYAyABEgJH4fD_BwE)

All my machines are Australian or European, but after looking for well over 2 years for a suitable Woodfast universal linisher or the likes I just bit the bullet and went this way so I had a sander.

It was a total POS. The idle drum had excessive vibration/run out and the platen was twisted and bowed significantly. Squaring the platen to the table at one end would result in 1.5mm out of square at the opposite end.

It has been returned and a replacement has been sent.

Just wondering what other people’s experiences with these machines are?

Am I expecting too much from the Chinese made machines?

Cheers

[China]

Unfortunately budget priced Chinese machines are a lucky dip some are acceptable and some need to be rebuilt and the rest go in the skip.

[jonsey850]

Yeah ok, I could tolerate replacing bearings, machining shafts ect but if the platen is twisted there’s not much that can be done.

[Simplicity]

Without sounding rude,
Would it be better to review the second machine, I understand the first was lemon,and it would be great if we didn’t get lemons.

I’ve looked at the same machine a few times my self,
So would like to know how the second machine turns out.

Cheers Matt.

[Albert]

I have the exact same machine, its working fine as a sander, I am yet to check the squareness of the platen/table...etc. I purchased it cos I need a sander and cant justify buying a Volpato or a Kundig...

[jonsey850]

Hi Matt, when the second machine arrives I will go over it and post the results here. Hopefully better than the last.

Albert it would be great if you could check the squareness of you machine so we can compare.

The cast table was dead flat (checked with precision straight edge). It was the platen, being folded plate when they weld in the hinge arms and plate for spring tension mechanism ect it would inevitably warp. So it is probably next to impossible to get one without some warping.

Cheers

[BobL]

One of my mates has a JET version of these and I've used it for several weeks.
It worked fine

It worked fine but as usual the dust extraction is rubbish.
I found the dust extraction improved considerably by completely removing the fitted hood and adding a Bell mouth hood like this.
The photo is not of the JET but of the non-oscillating sander at the mens shed.

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[Albert]

Just took some pics.

Didnt take the belt off but didnt see the point doing that.

didnt notice any warp. the cast iron table is dead flat.

What I make dont require +/- 0.5mm accuracy...


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[jonsey850]

Thanks Albert, that looks like it’s fairly even both ends. The light shining through is probably from the bottom of the belt being worn more than the top.

[jonsey850]

Hi Bob, I have prepared a 150 duct to the sander but will reduce to 100mm for now so I can use it. But will definitely do some mods so it either takes a 150mm hose on the existing shroud or use a BMH.

[riverbuilder]

I’ve always been under the impression that the slip cloth is there to take out any imperfections in the platen? Granted, it’s not going to have 2 or 3 mm, but it gives the belt some stability.

[jonsey850]

Hopefully the replacement sander arrives tomorrow. The delay has been due to the service department assembling and checking the machine is in spec. Apparently they would normally charge a fee for this service but it has been waivered in this instance.

[jonsey850]

The big day finally arrived. The replacement machine that had been assembled and inspected by the service department was delivered.

Feverish with anticipation I removed the packaging and began going over the machine, only to be disappointed once again.

This time there was no vibration, tick. But the platen was once again twisted - a lot. This time about 2mm over its length. Winding sticks below tell all there is to know.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211215/9875dcd809aa177185d734b80e1b70b5.jpg

They also forgot to include the two additional belts I payed for as well…

So what to do now??

I will complain and see what they have to offer but I can only imagine it to be a slow and painful experience.

Otherwise I am fair confidant I could remove the platen from the machine and straighten it. Not ideal for a brand new machine.

[Midnight Man]

Just my humble opinion for what it's worth...

Goods not fit for purpose, the ACCC says it's your choice of repair, replace, refund. Given that this is a replacement machine already, and set up by "the service department", goods are clearly not fit for purpose.

Refund.

DO NOT attempt to repair or fix yourself, the moment you touch the machine from that aspect, the retailer and manufacturer can both hold their hands in the air saying "The end user stuffed the machine up".

Photos will not get you out of that situation.

As above - "Dear sir, machine number two is in as poor a state as machine number one. Given that I have given you the opportunity to replace the originally faulty goods, and I now have an equally faulty unit, I would like to exercise my rights under ACCC rules and formally request a full refund."

[pintek]

Agree with Midnight man here - ACCC will back you up without too much issue. Have had to go down this path recently for a non WW related item and it was money in the bank within days after a call to the seller, stating I want a refund as the item was not fit for purpose and that I had spoken to the ACCC.
All they requested to process the refund was for me to return the faulty goods - at their cost. We pay extra in Aus for a lot of items, but I believe we have the best protection as consumers.

[jonsey850]

Ok so after sending some photos to the retailer I managed to get to talk to the guy in charge of the service department.

He told me that they are all like that to some degree and I should expect that from these Chinese machines. Told me to go spend $8k on a euro machine if I want things square.

I advised him they should have a disclaimer on the web site stating that these machines have extremely poor tolerances.

He said if I want to go any further I need to talk to the owner of the company. They are now closed for Xmas.

Could probably get a refund in the new year but I’m starting to think what’s the point?

The only way to get one of these machines with a reasonably straight platen would be to inspect several machines and that’s not going to happen. I don’t really want to spend big money on a euro machine and I’m over waiting for a good used machine.

[riverbuilder]

“ you should expect this from these Chinese machines “
what a crappy attitude.
No wonder everyone has dramas not just with the machines but with the people selling them.

[jonsey850]

Yeah it’s pretty average, I will definitely never buy anything from them again.

He also said I am the only person that has ever complained about the dodgy platens. Unsure if he’s telling the truth or not about that one.

[Midnight Man]

“ you should expect this from these Chinese machines “
what a crappy attitude.
No wonder everyone has dramas not just with the machines but with the people selling them.

Agree with the above. The "aim low" attitude of many Australian retailers has had me gradually put company after company on my "Do not deal with" list.

So - effectively, what the retailer is saying is "Expect to buy something brand new in box that is not fit for purpose". If they know this, shame on them for even bringing the product into the country, let alone selling it.

On a matter of principle alone I'd be getting a refund.

[jonsey850]

What annoys me is that to make the platen without the twist would not be hard. Just a flat surface and some checking as the gussets ect get welded in.

We really are excepting an extremely low standard to quality. Such a shame when Aus used to make some really decent machines that would last a life time.

Would be good for any others on here to check their sanders to see if they have the same problem.

[Potts]

In your first post you put a link to a machine from Hare and Forbes, is this in fact where you bought your machine from as you mention a machine like this, not the retailer or am I missing something?

[BobL]

I agree, it's definitely not up to being usable.

It strikes me as somewhat odd that a machine with a cast iron table uses a pressed steel platten.
My 30+ year old Italian sander has a machined cast iron platten and machined cast Al fence.

[Kuffy]

I have a Sherwood edge sander from Timbecon. I bought it late 2020 for a run of wooden mallets that I was making. Since then, I pretty much use it for sanding table legs and the edges of cutting boards. If the platen wasn't flat, I would have noticed it the first time I smoothed the edge of a cutting board because the board would have fallen over after standing it on edge. I never bothered to check if it was flat because there was no reason to until now. So I have now done some checks with the sandpaper off, but the graphite platen material still attached (it's stuck on).

It is square from one end to the other.
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It is flat corner to corner, as checked with a straight edge. It looks like a light gap near my hand, but that is just a reflection from the light source, plus there is a slight 'unwanted' chamfer on my straight edge at that point!
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And of course it is straight from end to end.
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Photo of the machine to give reference
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Overall, it's a pretty decent machine for the money. It would be much better if the idler wheel didn't rock back and forth to create the oscillation, and instead have the powered wheel and idler wheel raise and lower as one. It's a much more expensive but better option as it allows me to sand things much longer than the platen without the idler wheel tilting forwards and ruining the work.

[jonsey850]

Potts the machine is the the same as the original link but is a Woodman from Gregory Machinery.

Thanks Kuffy for checking your sander out, it seems fine.

Maybe Gregory has just got a bad batch, but the owner (Alan Gregory) doesn’t seem interested in trying to work out what’s going on. I would definitely never deal with them again.

[Albert]

Gregory pulled out of NZ maybe 5-6 years ago. I bought 2 Italian made machines at cost from them before they packed up and left. one is a Masterwood mortiser 505258505259

and another machine is a SCM S400P bandsaw. only bought them because I know there wont be any issues and I wont need any service.

Coming back to the sander issue.

Get your money back, buy yourself an older machine.
A woodworking friend of mine (Daniel Streiker, guy who made a fat bike from timber) who visited me recently, he saw a few pieces of timber that I ripped with my old Italian Sicar bandsaw and he was gobsmacked with the quality of the cut. he has a Felder F510 and I dont think he is too happy about the quality of the cut - probably to do with the saw blade but anyhow sometimes older machines are better than new.

[RSD]

Something you quickly learn when buying wholesale from China is that machines etc usually have about four quality levels - from the same factory - each with its own price point. The importer/wholesaler chooses what level of quality & price they want their version of the machine to be. It sounds like the Scheppach and Timbecon machines might be the higher level machines, the Woodman machine that the OP bought might be one of the lower level machines. I'm about to purchase the Scheppach machine so will find out early next week - I was actually looking for some reviews of it on here and elsewhere when I came across this thread. It would probably be helpful if the OP edited his post by putting a link to the actual machine he bought instead of a link to a similar machine marketed by another company.

[RSD]

Went and took a look at the Sherwood one at Timbecon today - looks very well built using quality components and like Kuffy's it checked out fine with a square etc. The Timbecon one is only 2hp whereas the Scheppach is 3hp but I think that I will buy the Timbecon one as H&F don't have a Scheppach on display in their showroom for me to take a look at. The Woodman from Gregory's looks to be a poor cousin version of the Timbecon.

[jonsey850]

Hi Guys

Just for clarification this is the original machine that was sent to me:
Woodman Pro ES689 Oscillating Edge Sander | Woodworking Machinery (https://gregmach.com/product/woodman-pro-es689-oscillating-edge-sander/)

And this was the replacement machine:
Woodman PRO ES699/1 Edge Sander - Gregory Machinery (https://gregmach.com/product/woodman-es61081-edge-sander/)

The second one is the one I originally ordered but they sent the first one as they were out of stock.

The 689 (first machine) was a POS, vibrated and very loud. The 699 (second machine) is a much better machine but unfortunately it has the twisted platen same as the first.

I think the moral of the story here is just don’t buy from Gregory and you might get some satisfaction.

[riverbuilder]

Just buy older, well made gear, there’s a reason why machines that were built before a lot of us were born are still running well or could be with some love and care, they were built to last and do their job well.

[jonsey850]

Hi riverbuilder

I mentioned at the start that I had been looking for a non Chinese used machine for quite some time. They just don’t come up very often, and when they do they are mostly in the southern states. No one will hold a machine for you to organise pickup when they have 10 other people lined up to look at it that afternoon.

Even the second hand machinery dealers seem to rarely come across any. If they do they are most likely sold instantly.

So options are:
1. Wait forever to find a decent used machine by chance.
2. Buy an $8k euro machine.
3. Buy a $1.5k chinese machine.

Option 2 is probably the smart one:
- No time wasted waiting years for a second hand machine.
- No money wasted on China junk.
- Money isn’t wasted on quality if you can afford it.

[Albert]

Hi riverbuilder

I mentioned at the start that I had been looking for a non Chinese used machine for quite some time. They just don’t come up very often, and when they do they are mostly in the southern states. No one will hold a machine for you to organise pickup when they have 10 other people lined up to look at it that afternoon.

Even the second hand machinery dealers seem to rarely come across any. If they do they are most likely sold instantly.

So options are:
1. Wait forever to find a decent used machine by chance.
2. Buy an $8k euro machine.
3. Buy a $1.5k chinese machine.

Option 2 is probably the smart one:
- No time wasted waiting years for a second hand machine.
- No money wasted on China junk.
- Money isn’t wasted on quality if you can afford it.

Before I bought the sander I have, I almost bought/but missed out a new ish second hand SCM edge sander for 4k, didnt want to spend too much on the sander as it only sands and I dont need 0.0001m accuracy for my sanding job so went with the cheapest option, its an interim solution.

If I see a second hand SCM sander I will definitely take it - am still waiting.

[barramonday]

The Hammer HS950 unit seems to review well, I've no experience with it but should be a good step up from the Woodman without being 8k I'm guessing 3-4.

[RSD]

Hi riverbuilder

I mentioned at the start that I had been looking for a non Chinese used machine for quite some time. They just don’t come up very often, and when they do they are mostly in the southern states. No one will hold a machine for you to organise pickup when they have 10 other people lined up to look at it that afternoon.

Even the second hand machinery dealers seem to rarely come across any. If they do they are most likely sold instantly.

So options are:
1. Wait forever to find a decent used machine by chance.
2. Buy an $8k euro machine.
3. Buy a $1.5k chinese machine.

Option 2 is probably the smart one:
- No time wasted waiting years for a second hand machine.
- No money wasted on China junk.
- Money isn’t wasted on quality if you can afford it.
Another strategy might be to determine your needs - what do you want the sander for? How accurate do you need it to be? Will a Chinese machine do? If so then research which of the Chinese machines offer the best quality. Seems like the Woodman isn't the best of the Chinese machines, Scheppach might be reasonable, the Sherwood is likely reasonable too - will post a review once mine arrives-ordered it today.

[riverbuilder]

Hi riverbuilder

I mentioned at the start that I had been looking for a non Chinese used machine for quite some time. They just don’t come up very often, and when they do they are mostly in the southern states. No one will hold a machine for you to organise pickup when they have 10 other people lined up to look at it that afternoon.

Even the second hand machinery dealers seem to rarely come across any. If they do they are most likely sold instantly.

So options are:
1. Wait forever to find a decent used machine by chance.
2. Buy an $8k euro machine.
3. Buy a $1.5k chinese machine.

Option 2 is probably the smart one:
- No time wasted waiting years for a second hand machine.
- No money wasted on China junk.
- Money isn’t wasted on quality if you can afford it.
agree 100%, buying quality if somewhat expensive gear is an investment mostly because there is high demand for second hand quality machines, you can often recoup almost all of your initial outlay, any depreciation is usually well below what a cheap machine, or several, would have cost and then depreciated.
granted, some particular machines are not common, either because they are still in use or get snapped up instantly, however, many woodworking machines are being replaced with modern CNC equipment, and therefore there is a glut of them (panel saws for example), and the value of those is way below replacement and initial cost, but because businesses need the space, and have usually fully written off any depreciation, they will let machines go at a low price.
The other reason you’ll find it difficult to find good secondhand Timber working machines like sanders, spindles, bandsaws, and planers, is because the work that they do is becoming rarer here, everything is cut from sheets of manufactured board, assembled by low paid workers, snd thrown into a container and out. A lot of these timber machines have been scrapped or are sitting in dealers warehouses, many of them have been shipped to second world nations like Indonesia and India, where they are still in use, churning out replication furniture and the like.
A mate of mine took the entire contents of his big woodshop over to Indonesia and set it up there, limitless labour, cheap, he employs an entire village and he lives like a king. There’s a few guys like him over there.