On-line auctions and sniping.

[Driver]

I've only recently developed an interest in on-line auctions and I think there was a thread on this particular subject recently. I've done a search and I can't find it. :(

What I'm interested in is this:-

What do you blokes think is the point of sniping and, in particular, the automatic sniping services that are offered on the Web?

I'm a novice at this so I stand to be corrected but I would have thought that, with eBay in particular, if you bid the maximum you are prepared to pay for an item and then sit back while eBay automatically enters bids up to your maximum, then sniping in the dying seconds of the auction has no point.

In other words, once the price goes past the maximum you are prepared to pay then, as with any other auction, wouldn't you lose interest?

I have successfully bought two items recently. In both cases, I entered a "maximum" bid. I won one auction for a bit less than my maximum. I lost the other but was then offered a so-called second chance to buy the item for the maximum price I had entered. I willingly bought it because I was prepared to pay the price I had bid.

In this second instance, I have a suspicion that the seller may have manipulated the bidding process so as to extract from me the best price but - although I think this goes against the spirit of the auction process and may actually be at least unethical - I don't feel justified in complaining because the price I paid was the price I was originally prepared to pay. (Besides, I have no actual evidence that the seller did anything other than offer me a second chance according to the rules).

Any comments? Any advice?

Col

[Greg Q]

You snipe because you don't want the other bidder to be aware of you, nor do you want him to get caught up in 'bidding fever'. eBay calls a purchase a 'win'. This alone promotes a competition mentality, and some bidders let their ego go crazy and end up bidding an unrealistic price. Some Lie-Nielsen auctions, for example, end up being more than retail.

Greg

[Driver]

some bidders let their ego go crazy and end up bidding an unrealistic price.

I understand that but I still don't see why that would motivate me to snipe. If I enter a bid that I consider to be the maximum I am prepared to pay for the item, anyone who bids above that maximum- at any stage - is welcome to the item in question. How does sniping help in this?

Col

[Greg Q]

Well, say the first guy bids $10.00 for a good used item that retailed new for $60.00. Personally, I would have a figure of 60% of new, minus shipping. So say I have in mind $25.00 for the item. If I bid the $25.00, the bid will automatically go to $11.00 and stay there. The first guy sees that he's been outbid, so he starts chasing the win, notching all the way up to $26.00. He wins.

Don't forget that many bidders will simply bid the opening bid price as a gambit, and then try to act as though its a live tit-for-tat auction. If you refuse to play that game, they are lulled into a false sense of security. Then, in the last seconds you take it away from them. Don't forget-its not only getting the item that counts, its getting it cheap.

Having said that, I have four items for sale right now. Not many bids, but many, many watchers. These are the guys who will fight it out in the last seconds, and good on them.

I have to go snipe something right now, as a matter of fact:D

Greg

[Driver]

OK - so you're playing it as a sport. Now I understand.

[Greg Q]

Yeah, sometimes. Often though its really just to prevent the less experienced bidders from getting carried away.

The other thing is trying to determine the equal regret price, which is sometimes difficult to know accurately beforehand.

One other benefit to sniping that I forgot to mention: Often a one week cooling off period will make me think twice, and I end up not bidding at all. You don't want to get in the habit of retracting too many bids, so waiting to bid may have other advantages besides price...

Greg

[Dan]

Col,

You're trying to use logic in an area where it doesn't seem to apply.:rolleyes:

[Driver]

See my contribution here:-

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?p=233100#post233100

[Toolin Around]

You snipe because you don't want the other bidder to be aware of you.

Greg

Doesn't work if you're watching the counter at the bottom of the page. The counter logs everyone who initially looks at the item so you can gauge the popularity and you see everyone who either uses a sniping program or does it manually log in to watch in the last minutes. Just start watching the counter with about 10 mins left, it will start climbing at around 5. I've seen the counter climb by over 100 in the last mins of an auction. If there is a dramatic climb you know there's going to be some serious competition for the item. You have to then decide how much you want the item.

[Toolin Around]

I understand that but I still don't see why that would motivate me to snipe. If I enter a bid that I consider to be the maximum I am prepared to pay for the item, anyone who bids above that maximum- at any stage - is welcome to the item in question. How does sniping help in this?

Col

Sniping is for those who are ignorant enough to think they're being sneaky. There are so many people that think they're sniping that it comes back around to he who pays most wins.

On popular items sniping is a waste of time. On other items you may hear people brag about sniping but in reality not many or no one else wanted the item.

[Ivan in Oz]

I lost the other but was then offered a so-called second chance to buy the item for the maximum price I had entered. I willingly bought it because I was prepared to pay the price I had bid.

Any comments? Any advice?

Col

G'Day Col,
That's what I thought when I've bid on a couple of Items.
I got 'pushed' up and the "Winner" was the minimum incriment more than I was.
HOWEVER,
The item comes up quite often.
I'll bid the Minimum anount when I'm looking to purchase ....again.
It was for some Shock Absorbers.
My 2nd chance offer was cheaper than 'Shop' price;
but the Principal of the thing [or lack of] which Irked me:(

The other thing which Irkes me is some of the ABSOLUTE Trash that is FLOGGED off.
Some cannot even give a description of the item, "Other than what is in the Photo",
I'd say posted direct from some 'Sweat Shop' factory to "Winner"
OR should I say "Looser"
eg
"New" Millers Falls tools, they stink.
I mean they DO STINK, they smell of Rat's Urine :eek: :mad:

[Greg Q]

Sniping is for those who are ignorant enough to think they're being sneaky. There are so many people that think they're sniping that it comes back around to he who pays most wins.

On popular items sniping is a waste of time. On other items you may hear people brag about sniping but in reality not many or no one else wanted the item.

Good morning to you too, tooling around. A word: I posted about the merits of sniping, real or imagined, then you effectively call me ignorant. Kindly watch your manners.

Warm Regards
Greg

[dazzler]

Someone needs a hug:rolleyes:

[TassieKiwi]

E-bay is not an 'auction', because of the time limit. Many on-line auctions pages have an 'auto-extend' if there is a bid in the last 30 seconds or so, which creates a true auction. I use an automatic sniper mainly because I cannot guarentee if I can be present at the auction's close. I put my maximum bid in, and see what happens. Avoids that rush to the head too. I have bought many items for very good prices, using the sniper. There are no ethics involved IMO, just choice.

[Bodgy]

I think posting a bid before the last frantic few minutes is pretty pointless, unless you cant be on line at the close or its a sort of ambit bid where you don't really care.

Remember there are an awful lot of idiots in the world. Your early bid may just make of one them up the ante, whereas he may not have been in at the kill.

Most people get all emotive when bidding, they seem to take it as some sort of contest - like property auctions. You're wise to have a top limit.

I always think that there's always a second chance, the item or similar will come up again.

I've done very well on Ebay over the last 6 months - I'll show my restored set of planes when I finish them, circa $150 - but I would have either lost or retired from 95% of auctions. It does take a lot of research and time.

I'm also noticing that as EPay becomes more widely used, fraud is growing, particularly on bigger ticket items. Like most things, to get a jump on the pack, research, research, research.

Finally, beware the frieght and packaging. On small value items, this impost often brings the total costs up to RRP. Some merchants also seem to make their margin, not on the item, but on the P&P.

Regardless. I think its a great resource and will eventrually change the face of retail.

Very last thought. ALWAYS search on like items to see what the past average winning bid has been.

[Clinton1]

I only bid in the last minute. I throw my hat in the ring then, and use that approach to do two things:
1. limit the "oh, I'm tempted to just bid a bit more" thing I get into,
2. only reveal my interest at the very end.

I'll bid early on something I really want, like the 3 near-new old disston saws that I lost out on recently, if I can't be at the 'puter when the auction closes. Looking at the bids after the close will usually show someone testing my bid limit by putting in multiple bids over the last few minutes, or a snipe. Someone might be thinking "I'll go $30, ok, that lost why not try $33, no, $35, no.... now I'm cranky, $60..."

Basically, bid early, and others will bid up to see your limit, and make a decision as to whether they really want it.

Bid late and you still may have to pay your maximum, however there is a chance that you will get it for the minimum "over the last highest maximum" before "old matey" has time to reconsider his maximum bid.

I guess I'm not trying to pay my maximum, rather I'm trying to pay as far off my minimum as I can get away with.

Would sniping help? Dunno, I can't be bothered thinking about it and having another layer of "stuff I need to know about and have passwords and links and stuff for" in my mind.

[E. maculata]

Sniping is for those who are ignorant enough to think they're being sneaky. There are so many people that think they're sniping that it comes back around to he who pays most wins.

On popular items sniping is a waste of time. On other items you may hear people brag about sniping but in reality not many or no one else wanted the item.

Hello Tool, nice to meet you, guess you've seen my kind before, I snipe and on popular items as well. Sometimes it pans, sometimes it doesn't, check my user history next time you're sniped by me:p , been involved in these arguments umpteen times before on the community forums over the years, generally turns out the whingers have been sniped or sold things undervalue and won't accept the situation.
There's a lot of heat in some kitchens, if uncomfortable remove thyself knave:D

[echnidna]

auctions go to the highest bidder,
if you bid late or early the auction still goes to the highest bidder.

[schaf]

Hi, have been reading this thread with interest and a counter to gage how many people look at a item has been mentioned.
How and where do you find this counter. I have looked with no luck just cannot find it.Could someone please advise me.

[ozwinner]

Win, win,win.
For every winner there is a loser, usually the seller.

How can every user of Epay be a winner??


Al :confused:

[barnsey]

auctions go to the highest bidder,
if you bid late or early the auction still goes to the highest bidder.
Well that's what I thought and I'm not familiar with this "sniping" terminology.

I pretty much agree that there are elements of all the inputs apply but I have had successes on ebay and other sites where I have got the item for less than or at the maximum I was prepared to pay. The only way you can establish that figure IMHO is to research :cool:.

Very rarely do I get on a last minute buying war and even then it is only because the item is somethig I want. eg placed max $60 and won at $62. On another recent one bid $25 - lost - sold at $32 had lost before - bidding on the next offer for the same product -$32 - was offered the product at $25:confused:

And still waiting for the $275 Ryobi A13 to arrive Monday:D

[Groggy]

Hi, have been reading this thread with interest and a counter to gage how many people look at a item has been mentioned.
How and where do you find this counter. I have looked with no luck just cannot find it.Could someone please advise me.I think only the seller can see this for a given item.

[Greg Q]

There is a counter at the bottom of most listings, it tells how many times that page has been loaded on anyone's browser. I may look at something a dozen times and each one will show as a discrete time the item has been viewed.

There is another piece of info that is available only to the seller: I can tell how many people have placed my item on their personal watch list on their 'my ebay' page. This gives an idea of the degree of interest in the item, but is not a reliable indicator of how many people will bid at the end.

I have an item right now with one bid of 0.99. yet there are 17 people watching it, so in this case I expect a last minute flurry.

Greg

[outback]

As has been pointed out, Ebay is not an auction.
As has been pointed out, there is some idiots out there.

I see little advantage in driving up the final price, promoting an item in which I am interested, or flagging my interest in an item.

I will only bid on Ebay in the dying seconds of an item.

If this makes me one of the idiots, you'll find me in the corner with the pointy aht with the bif "D" on it, but be careful, there is a bit of a crowd of us.

[meerkat]

auctions go to the highest bidder,
if you bid late or early the auction still goes to the highest bidder.

Spot on echnidna.

Sniping is useful when you may not be around to monitor the sale.

There is another option and that is the other bidder(s) may not be aware of sniping and will try to get the sale by sitting and monitoring the progress which sniping is anyway but done using software.

I wouldn't pay for sniping software etc unless I was buying a lot.

Regards
Andrew

[Toolin Around]

Hi, have been reading this thread with interest and a counter to gage how many people look at a item has been mentioned.
How and where do you find this counter. I have looked with no luck just cannot find it.Could someone please advise me.

It should be at or near the middle of the page (but that greatly depends on how much information and pictures the seller has included in the page). The counter is usually in a small rectangle with green numbers with a black back ground above the "Shipping, payment details and return policy" header See attached pic

[fxst]

Driver I have bought a fair bit from ebay in various catagories and never worry about sniping etc.I tend to set my limit on an item allow for postage and make that my max. amount, then if I win good if not too bad.
I see many bidding wars and at times you can buy the item new locally for less than the final bid + postage :D
well thats what I do so now you can decide what you wish to do.
I have lost many auctions by 50 cents but that was 50 cents more than my max bid. I dont have a must win ethic and accept that some people will want an item more than me or must win at any cost.
Pete

[Toolin Around]

Good morning to you too, tooling around. A word: I posted about the merits of sniping, real or imagined, then you effectively call me ignorant. Kindly watch your manners.

Warm Regards
Greg

Oops!:o Sorry old chap! Never ment it as an insult, only as to what the word truely means - someone is unaware because of a lack of relevant information or knowledge. It can be a real problem when stating a generalization.

[Sir Stinkalot]

Just to close the case on the counter issue ...

It can be added by the seller if they choose when listing the auction and is the only way to know how many people have viewed the auction.

There is a feature that shows the seller how many people have added the auction to their "watch" list.

[Greg Q]

Oops!:o Sorry old chap! Never ment it as an insult, only as to what the word truely means - someone is unaware because of a lack of relevant information or knowledge. It can be a real problem when stating a generalization.

Thanks for the important social tip. Often ignorance IS, in fact, bliss. Not in this case, however. As has been amptly pointed out, the highest price AT THE END of the 'auction wins; anything else is irrelevant.

It is not being sneaky, as you put it, to wait until the end of the listing. Waiting simply removes the tit for tat engaged in by neophytes, or attempts to. On poplular items this doesn't work precisely because too many bidders treat ebay like a real auction.

[Driver]

Driver I have bought a fair bit from ebay in various catagories and never worry about sniping etc.I tend to set my limit on an item allow for postage and make that my max. amount, then if I win good if not too bad.
I see many bidding wars and at times you can buy the item new locally for less than the final bid + postage :D
well thats what I do so now you can decide what you wish to do.
I have lost many auctions by 50 cents but that was 50 cents more than my max bid. I dont have a must win ethic and accept that some people will want an item more than me or must win at any cost.
Pete

Pete

Your approach sounds sensible to me and is basically what I have done so far and what I intend to do if I buy anything else on eBay. I wouldn't pay more for something than I think it is worth in any other type of deal so I don't see any reason to operate differently in an on-line auction.

If people get their kicks by "playing to win" - good luck to them!

Col