American Bashing

[imdusty]

What's up with all the bashing? I just want to hear and talk about woodworking, that's why I joined here. Perhaps I should move on to different forums. I didn't know I wasn't welcome.

[Wood Butcher]

What's up with all the bashing? I just want to hear and talk about woodworking, that's why I joined here. Perhaps I should move on to different forums. I didn't know I wasn't welcome.

I think that you will find that it the Australian way of having a bit of fun. There is more about woodwork here than any other forum like this in the world and you are welcome!!

P.S. Don't get to distressed, we talk like that to each other sometimes too!

[Gra]

we talk like that to each other sometimes too!

Whats this sometime bit.....:D

[boban]

What's up with all the bashing? I just want to hear and talk about woodworking, that's why I joined here. Perhaps I should move on to different forums. I didn't know I wasn't welcome.

When particular people stick out their necks and tell us how good they are, we tend to bite.

All reasonable people are welcome to this forum. A few of the finest contibutors to this forum are American.

A lot of us (as well as most the balance of the world) dont care for your country's foreign policy nor our governments support of it. This has nothing to do with woodwork. But you'll notice that we have a forum with just such a title and it tends to draw a lot of interest and response.

If you dont have the stomach for some healthy debate then you might not enjoy it here. You are from the land of the brave so I guess youll be right.

[bitingmidge]

Hey dusybloke!

Read this thread, kicked off by one of your own, and a much loved membeer of this joint :p :p when he was new to the forum and looking for a hiding! http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=14788

Just enjoy yourself, it could be a lot worse, you could come from Tasmania!

Is it true that Americans think irony is stuff that comes from elephant's tusks?

Cheers,

P

:D :D :D

[Iain]

Don't think it's confined to Americans, a few locals have managed to rub everyone the wrong way as well as a couple from the middle east and parts of Eorope.
Swan in with a holier than thou approach and duck for cover.
I read your other posts and don't think you need to purchase a flak jacket.
We just get a bit upset when one of your countrymen gloats about what a great system they have in place for education, the best recognised colleges etc, and displays considerable difficulty with punctuation spelling and grammar, what we are lacking by way of healthcare etc.
We all get a little peeved with that, if we wanted to live in US of A we probably would.

[bennylaird]

The world is a small place when you get online so why worry where a poster is from unless:

They are a Croweater, Banana Bender, Two-headed Taswegian, Sandgroper, New South Welshman etc they are all bad news.....

Carn the Vics!!!!!!!!

[Iain]

Carn the Vics!!!!!!!!
But only from the right hand side of Melb;)
City by the bay, Westernport Bay

[Rocker]

What's up with all the bashing? I just want to hear and talk about woodworking, that's why I joined here. Perhaps I should move on to different forums. I didn't know I wasn't welcome.

imdusty,

Boban has already put it pretty well, but I would like to emphasise that you are indeed welcome here, as are the great majority of the forum members who happen to be American. Unfortunately, there are a few - very few - who more or less conform to the caricature image of the 'Ugly American'. If you want to see what I mean, take a look at this thread: http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=23719 .

I made the original post in the thread to raise a smile, and to poke a little good-natured fun at some of the eccentric measurements still in use in America, which despite its commitment, I believe in earliest colonial times, to adopt the metric system, has never actually got around to doing so. Much to my surprise, it provoked a wild response from an American forum member (in Post #18). In general, the Australian members' response to this outburst was remarkably restrained, but one or two may have been provoked into making unfair generalisations about America.

Nevertheless, we normally appreciate and value the American forum members, several of whom produce outstanding work, and give valuable input to the forum.

Rocker

[Gingermick]

I'm a bit disappointed that this thread isn't specially for American Bashing :( :D

[bitingmidge]

In general, the Australian members' response to this outburst was remarkably restrained, but one or two may have been provoked into making unfair generalisations about America.

As you point out Rocker, the generalisations were indeed "provoked" by the same member, who has in the past been the perpetrator of EXTREME views of the truly obnoxious kind. Many of us were surprised to see him back!

Unfortunately, the way of this form of communication is such, that a newcomer can only judge by what is current, without the benefit of all that has gone before.

Some members (not just American ones) provoke negative responses, it's just that the American ones are then misconstrued as "country bashing".

Cheers,

P;)

[Termite]

A general rule here is "If you ask for it you will cop it" and not just any particular nationality. The forum members have very good judgement when someone is out of line for one reason or another.

This is speaking from personal experience. :o :D

[silentC]

Hey, don't blame us, it's television that's to blame. Just like you guys think all Aussies are Crocodile Dundee, we think you're all Archie Bunker ;)

Stop being such a girl :D

[JackoH]

We are all Crocodiles Dundee are'nt we?(Or should that be just crocs?)

[echnidna]

But only from the right hand side of Melb;)
City by the bay, Westernport Bay

You mean MOZZIE LAND don't you Iain

[Bodgy]

Imdusty

You are very welcome here and shouldn't take it all too seriously. That's the Oz way to trash what we call tall poppies - and each other. The current US bashing is mild compared to the feud of a few months ago reagarding some dead Dutch architect and the value of his weirdo designs and the verity of people's perceptions thereof.

Australia has a long history of friendship with the US, you saved our ass in WW2 or we would all be eating sushi for lunch. We continue as close military allies.

Currently, a lot of us are disturbed by the way the US is going. Your country needs rapidly dwindling oil supplies, and you have ensured a continuing supply by invading Iraq, who probably had it coming. Fair enough, but leave out the altruistic nonsense. The rise of loony right wing christian evangelism is terrifying, particularly with it's political clout. Just as bad as the Moslem cretins, maybe worse, cause the US guys have had an education. The US is our economic overlord, you gotta expect a bit of dissension from the peasants in the colonies.

Sure, discussion should be confined to woodwork etc, but that'd be pretty boring after a while.

Stay with us, getting your country knocked occasionally makes you angry, me too - I was born a Pom. Have a go back. Tell us we're horribly overgoverned (3 levels of Gov and taxes for less than the population of greater LA), desperately insecure and try to out PC the US and Europe, suffocating under enormous over-regulation, crude and un-cultured, we think the sick day is a right............

but don't go, we luvs ya.

[craigb]

we luvs ya.

I wouldn't go that far. After all, we hardly know him. :p :D

[bennylaird]

We should all treat everybody equally!!!!!


So you can ALL get stuffed!!!!!




In a nice way that is........LOL (meaning I am joking.....)

[dazzler]

Hi Imdusty

Welcome. You may note that any America Bashing goes on in the appropriate forums.....open slather or Have your say etc. It is unusual for it to appear in the woodies sections.

Aussies are very open and generally tell it how it is (or seems to be):D

If you dont like those sections then dont go there. You can always stay in the woodies section.;) But hey, come for a ride in the deep end. Nothing is personal.

You may need to keep in perspective that any anti-american sentiments are against your govt, not the people. I have served with US UN members and they are just like us, little bit confused with our taking the P*%% out of them though:p and I dont quite understand the black and white thing:confused:.

So this doesnt get moved to open slather put simply the US Govt and its foreign policy, past and present, is a VERY debatable subject.:(

now stop whining and get me some grits:p mmmmmmmmmmmm Grits:D

cheers

dazzler

[silentC]

This is another one of those perennial subjects, isn't it? I think, as it was with Ryan, it's a good sign that the question has been asked. Shows a certain amount of sensibility and good character.

[bennylaird]

So this doesnt get moved to open slather put simply the US Govt and its foreign policy, past and present, is a VERY debatable subject.:(



Some things just cry out for a loud debate, (read argument). You can get the same sort of feeling with Little Johnies IR policy down here.

Everyone will support what suits their own needs and why not, you have to look after your own needs.

[ryanarcher]

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showpost.php?p=232255&postcount=98

my 2c are free ;)

[Termite]

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showpost.php?p=232255&postcount=98

my 2c are free ;)

Is that US$0.02 or A$0.02 I don't like paying the bank for foreign currency transfer fees. :D

[Wood Borer]

Well said Ryan.

I have met what I consider as idiots from everywhere and I have met top people from everywhere.

Ryan is a great ambassador for the yanks and I consider him a mate.

So hang in there, ignore our idiots just as we ignore your idiots and you will get on OK.

[silentC]

You're absolutely correct Ryan. I can't think of a stereotype that is constructive, although there may be one or two around that I haven't thought of.

It is galling to have people from another country to make assumptions about you based on some perception of your own country. There must be a lot of people in Singapore who object to the death penalty, I know there are plenty of Americans who oppose the war in Iraq.

Yet it is a fact of life that people will hold these beliefs, whether or not they have personal experience on which to base them. It is just one of the things about being a human. As I've said before, I don't think it would be possible to truly strip away all of your prejudices. What you have to do is to recognise them for what they are.

[Clinton1]

What's up with all the bashing? I just want to hear and talk about woodworking

If you are asking for an opinion:
I don't denigrate others based on anything other than what they actually do... and I try not to get involved in denigration if I can, its demeaning to all involved IMO. Sometimes I can't restranin myself though! In this instance I'll put forward a suggestion, and perhaps and argument.

Champ, if that’s the case then I'd suggest (with the best of intention) that you just read the posts that are about woodwork, and leave the rest of the "monkey business to the monkeys". Get the value that you can out of the forum, and maybe forgo the "inclusiveness" that participating in all parts of it would give. Its a pretty good woodwork forum to give up on, if you don't like some of the non-woodwork stuff.

Other than that, perhaps to understand American bashing, maybe you need to be "on the outside, looking in". Sure "American bashing" is not polite, but politeness can go too far, IMO. Perhaps, just perhaps, there may be a reason behind it? An understanding of the reason can lead to different thoughts about the experience.
From personal experience, a lot of Americans I've met, served with and worked with have been ok on an individual level, however there is an enormous amount of horrifying stuff that comes out of your country as well. Maybe we notice it more due to the dominance of the US in the media, and perhaps its no worse than anywhere else; or maybe it is so bad we notice it due to its exceptional nature? Who know, perhaps we expect more due to the self-advertisement that the US participates in, you know, "honour, glory, ethics, free world, 'we're No. 1' rubbish".

Anyway, gotta go - I am supposed to be doing some pre-lecture research on the "United Fruit Company" for an ethics lecture. (thats part of the argument ;) )

[craigb]

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showpost.php?p=232255&postcount=98

my 2c are free ;)

Good on you Ryan. But then we made you an honorary Aussie ages ago. ;) :p :D

[boban]

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showpost.php?p=232255&postcount=98

my 2c are free ;)

Ryan having read your post it is easy to see why many of us have no problems with you.

BTW it wont just be DPB who sticks up for you when the need arises.

We all owe America our gratitude for what it has done in the past to help us and others. That said, criticism at the those that form your present (and some past) foreign policy must also be directed appropriately.

[LineLefty]

ahh, guys,

He hasnt replied. Methinks you've scared him off. I feel sorry for americans, I really do. What woudl it be like if everyone judged all Aussies on a few bad examples?

We seem to assume they're all rightwing envangalistic trailer trash. I'm sure they have more decent people than any other country :)

[silentC]

What woudl it be like if everyone judged all Aussies on a few bad examples?
What makes you think they don't?

;)

[bennylaird]

Which of the two Aussie examples? Sterve Urwin or Mick Dundee? Seems they are the only Aussies recognised? LOL

[Wood Borer]

Which of the two Aussie examples? Sterve Urwin or Mick Dundee? Seems they are the only Aussies recognised? LOL

The first time I heard of that Irwin bloke was in the US. All the Americans were asking me about him after they had heard my Aussie accent. I had never heard of him before.

[Wood Borer]

We are often seen to be bigots because of the actions of some rotten selfish Australians.

How many times have I been ashamed to be an Australian when overseas because of the attitude of the Australian Government and other narrow minded Australians who think themselves better than people who are less affluent?

I conducted a course in PNG without wearing shoes for a short time to smooth over a ridiculous incident at Brisbane airport involving the PNG Prime Minister.

Fortunately the locals overseas don't generalise too much and have always made me feel welcome despite the damage done by others.

Most of us on this Bulletin Board take a similar attitude and welcome all new comers wherever they come from. Idiots are normally given a hint to mend their ways before being ridiculed.

[BobR]

Good on you Ryan. But then we made you an honorary Aussie ages ago. ;) :p :D<!-- / message -->

But did he have the lobotomy??:rolleyes:

[craigb]

But did he have the lobotomy??:rolleyes:

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

[Shedhand]

Hey dusybloke!

Read this thread, kicked off by one of your own, and a much loved membeer of this joint :p :p when he was new to the forum and looking for a hiding! http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=14788

Just enjoy yourself, it could be a lot worse, you could come from Tasmania!

Is it true that Americans think irony is stuff that comes from elephant's tusks?

Cheers,

P

:D :D :D
Nothin' wrong with Tassie, sport...no bloody termites here!!!!:D:D:D:D:D

[DavidG]

Nothin' wrong with Tassie, sport...no bloody termites here!!!! Just finger biters.:eek: :D ;)

[savage]

Is it true that Americans think irony is stuff that comes from elephant's tusks?

Geez!.. an all these years I thought it was the stuff they made steely from!:o ..:D :D :D

[Termite]

On the subject of what other countries think of us, when I moved to the Phillipines 25 years ago I was quite often taken to task about the White Australia policy. At that point in time it had been abolished for at least 20 years.
So stereotypes do stick.

[Iain]

Having said that I still recall Enoch Powells catchcry:rolleyes:
When I was about 10 I also though a socialite was a labour voter (is there a difference???)

[Bodgy]

Whilst on stereotypes, during my time(s) in Indonesia, I would avoid bars and restuarants patronised by other expats, believing that travel was not about hanging with your own nationals. Consequently we'd always end up in places popular with the locals but relatively unknown to round eyes.

I noticed that the bar staff and management always sort of looked at me funny - my friends and business partners are Indo's. Eventually when we all got used to each other I asked about this. They replied that Australians always started to fight and smash the place up, after a few drinks and they were waiting for this to happen.

And this is in a place that would hardly ever see an Ozzie.

[Termite]

Whilst on stereotypes, during my time(s) in Indonesia, I would avoid bars and restuarants patronised by other expats, believing that travel was not about hanging with your own nationals. Consequently we'd always end up in places popular with the locals but relatively unknown to round eyes.

I noticed that the bar staff and management always sort of looked at me funny - my friends and business partners are Indo's. Eventually when we all got used to each other I asked about this. They replied that Australians always started to fight and smash the place up, after a few drinks and they were waiting for this to happen.

And this is in a place that would hardly ever see an Ozzie.

Yes, I must admit to seeing my share of "Ugly Australians" while overseas. :(

[Gumby]

Yes, I must admit to seeing my share of "Ugly Australians" while overseas. :(

You don't have to go OS to see them, just watch the Boxing day test. :rolleyes:

[Zed]

You don't have to go OS to see them, just watch the Boxing day test. :rolleyes:

see!!! I told you!!! NOTHING good comes of cricket!!!

[savage]

Yes, I must admit to seeing my share of "Ugly Australians" while overseas. :(

Mate, you don't have to go O.S. to see Ugly in it's finest:- like the old Digger bashed for his few dollars he won on A.N.Z.A.C. Day and left for dead, or those "good" boy's who gang rape our daughters, not to mention those well balanced gentlemen who bash and rape those 80 odd years old women "who where just asking for it". Ugly, I don't know what your all on about, excuse me while I go and throw-up!....Ugly is not a race or religion set, it is the human animal that needs to be dealt with in what ever manner fit to make the world a safer place, and following this it will be a happier place, but I think not in my lifetime.:(
savage(Eric):(

[Iain]

see!!! I told you!!! NOTHING good comes of cricket!!!
Two years he's been waiting to get that off his chest:D :D :D :D

[Bodgy]

You don't have to go OS to see them, just watch the Boxing day test. :rolleyes:

The visiting Yarpie team are our guests Gumby, and you should not be so unkind about them.

[Gumby]

The visiting Yarpie team are our guests Gumby, and you should not be so unkind about them.

Yarpie ?? Please explain. :confused:



Two years he's been waiting to get that off his chest:D :D :D :D

I hope a few chest hairs came off with it. :D OUCH !!

[Bodgy]

[Yarpie ?? Please explain. :confused:

Sud Effrikans, I'm trying to be even handed in my racial villification.

[silentC]

OK, I think we have established that people are people no matter where they are from and that we shouldn't assume anything about a person based on some broad category like place of birth or religion.

There are perceptions of us held by others that we don't agree with and no doubt a lot of the perceptions we have of other countries would have the same reception with them.

However there are cultural differences that contribute to some stereotypes. Do German's really have no sense of humour? Well, my mate Helmut does, albeit a strange one. So perhaps they just express it in a different way. So in that regard, DPB is spot on when he says that a lot of stereotypes are given rise to through ignorance.

There are probably others that are deserved. One of the systems I work on is a psychometric test suite used exstensively for recruitment and team building. The program has to be tweaked for different countries and cultures so that the results are not distorted. For example, in the US certain attributes are less favourable than they are here and vice versa. The differences are even bigger when you go into places like Hungary, Brazil, China and Denmark. You can't just compare Joe from Sydney with Mikkel from Copenhagen because their cultural environments are so different. If Joe is a go getter in Sydney he might be considered arrogant and rude in Copenhagen.

Doesn't that indicate some broad differences? Or is it just a flawed attempt to pigeonhole people? I don't know, I'm no psychologist.

I suppose we all have to try and be a bit less trigger happy and a bit more aware of where people are coming from.

[Gumby]

[Yarpie ?? Please explain. :confused:

Sud Effrikans, I'm trying to be even handed in my racial villification.

Oh them fellas. But I wasn't thinking about who was on the actual ground, more about those who go to 'watch' (and I use the term 'watch' very loosely) :(

[Gumby]

OK, I think we have established that people are people no matter where they are from and that we shouldn't assume anything about a person based on some broad category like place of birth or religion.

Except to say that we could make the one generalisation we all know to be true about anybody who contributes to these forums, regardless of nationality, one thing is absoultely certain. You have no life. :D :D

[Sturdee]

OK, I think we have established that people are people no matter where they are from and that we shouldn't assume anything about a person based on some broad category like place of birth or religion.



Very true and most of us are not American people bashing, well may be some of them ought to be bashed, like S.A.:D , but are objecting to the yankee imperialism that their country feels it ought to inflict on the rest of the world.

Whether it is economic imperialism, when they kept their dollar and gold prices artificially low for decades so they could buy up overseas competitors after the war years, or their alledged culteral imperialism with their cheap export of their Hollywood junk, or their military imperialism and involving us in them, their massive cheap exports and their corresponding closed markets keeping the trade deficits most countries face too high and their export of their hamburgers which ruined the Aussie hamburger are IMO fair things to criticise.

So when some one tries to justify the above, whether a Seppo or not, he deserves to be knocked down.:D


Peter.

[RETIRED]

Swish!

He was under another name 2 years ago but that person has never posted.

My guess is that he registered and forgot his pass word and reregistered. We have quite a few like that.

I personally agree with him that it sometimes seems you are American bashing and the only reason the other thread with "Sailing American" was left open is that he deserved it whether he was black, blue, green, yellow or Hindu, Christian, Sikh or African, American, English or Australian.

[Bodgy]

[quote=]Swish!
I personally agree with him that it sometimes seems you are American bashing and the only reason the other thread with "Sailing American" was left open quote]

I would postulate you should read we. Not specifically for the US bashing, but we're all singing from the same hymn book, aren't we?

[vsquizz]

Swish!
only reason the other thread with "Sailing American" was left open is that he deserved it whether he was black, blue, green, yellow or Hindu, Christian, Sikh or African, American, English or Australian.

Maybe it was Pauline as a troll??

and its "Straylens" :D

[craigb]

Maybe it was Pauline as a troll??



Nah, Kenmil's revenge :p :p

[outback]

Maybe it was Pauline as a troll??

and its "Straylens" :D

Is it possible for Pauline to be anyhting else?

[Wongo]

Imdusty,

Welcome and please stick around. We are going to have a lot of fun and you will enjoy it I promise. This is an Aussie forum but we do have many regulars from the US, UK, NZ, Canada and Queensland. :D All are welcome.

There are so many great people here. I know coz I have met many of them.:)

[Groggy]

So, whos turn is it now? The Franche? Yez, I tink sew...

[vsquizz]

So, whos turn is it now? The Franche? Yez, I tink sew...

Racial P*ss pulling is always fun..especially when it involves Tasmanian's and Kiwi's. However profession/trade villification is far more amusing. I like stirring up the sparkies..and there is pick on a plumber day. I'd like to propose we have "Bash a Lawyer Week"...but whats the point of restricting it to a week?:D

Cheers

[TEEJAY]

I'd like to propose we have "Bash a Lawyer Week"...but whats the point of restricting it to a week?:D

Cheers

Don't do that we don't have enough paper here for their replies :D

Cheers

[Termite]

There are so many great people here. I know coz I have met many of them.:)

Yes, and we still let him stay. :D

[Iain]

So, whos turn is it now? The Franche? Yez, I tink sew...
Careful, Mr Good Moaning will give you a reddy:D :D :D

[Christopha]

Just don't pick on the Origamists!!!!

[Daddles]

Just don't pick on the Origamists!!!!

Still smarting about your thread that got the swish are you stoppers?:D

Richard

[Gumby]

Just don't pick on the Origamists!!!!

We wouldn't, they'd get their skirts all in a knot. :D

[Wood Borer]

Just don't pick on the Origamists!!!!

They're a twisted lot.

[Christopha]

Still smarting about your thread that got the swish are you stoppers?:D

Richard

What swish?????:eek:

[Driver]

Careful, Mr Good Moaning will give you a reddy:D :D :D

Speaking on behalf of the good Captain Crabtree, I obviously need to point out (again :rolleyes: ) that he's not French - he's a pommy agent masquerading as a gendarme. That's why his pronunciation is so p!ss poor.

Or, in other words: You cin toke the pass eet of the Franch as mich as you leek. It's wooter off a dick's bock to moo!

[Wongo]

I probably should keep quiet. Otherwise the Chinese will be next.

Hell! I don't care because you guys are bastards.:D

Wongo (Peeking :D and duck :D )

[Sturdee]

Hell! I don't care because you guys are bastards.:D

Wongo (Peeking :D and duck :D )


Wongo, remember the old saying: It takes one to know one.:D


Peter.

[Driver]

(Peeking :D and duck :D )

Is that anything like "Zut alors and Camembert!"?

[Studley 2436]

Whether it is economic imperialism, when they kept their dollar and gold prices artificially low for decades so they could buy up overseas competitors after the war years,

So when some one tries to justify the above, whether a Seppo or not, he deserves to be knocked down.:D


Peter.
Geeze Sturdee I can't comment much about the exchange rates post WWII but there was the gold standard that came out of the Breton Woods agreement and stayed in place pretty much up to the 1973 oil crisis when it became obvious that currency could be traded at whatever price the market decided.

Likewise post WWII the whole world rebuilt, Europe had been bombed to bits and the Yanks financed the reconstruction give them a bit of credit. Just a guess but that would mean printing lots of dollars which would keep the value of the dollar down. Of course because it was a gold standard they would have to buy lots of the stuff.

So if I deserve to be knocked down on that one go ahead but I don't think it is really fair to criticise them over what they did after the war.

Studley

[Termite]

(Peeking :D and duck :D )

Possably he is being frugal with his words and is saying,"If you get caught peeking then duck." :rolleyes:

[Rocker]

This is an Aussie forum but we do have many regulars from the US, UK, NZ, Canada and Queensland. :D All are welcome.



Hey, aren't we Aussies too in cane-toad country? Just because we don't all look alike, like you Southerners .....

Rocker

[Sturdee]

Studley,

Yes, the gold standard was in place for a long time as was the Sterling standard. Also the USA gave Europe the Marshall plan to help rebuild immediately after the war.

But with everything they do a price had to be paid. It was not as altruistic as most believe.

They kept enforcing the gold standard at the artificial level of $ 35 for years after it was totally unrealistic to do so. They kept it so low until the UK and the commonwealth countries were forced to abandon the Sterling standard and start floating their currencies.

They did this by printing more and more dollars without any gold backing until it became so bad that most countries with strong currencies would no longer accept payment in US dollars. In particular near the end Australia could only pay for imports from Asia in yen's, even China would only accept payment in Remimbies, and from Germany and other European countries in DM's of francs . It was most frustrating working in a bank's foreign exchange department at that time.:(

The other aspect of the artificially low dollar was their economic imperialism was their wholesale buying of overseas companies with their cheap dollars to eliminate foreign competition. You only have to look at our country how they bought up industries and brands just to close them down.

Don't forget that even with the gold value now floating, and there being more gold available, to back the US dollar, if every dollar note in non US hands would be presented to their federal reserve bank the whole house of cards would collapse and the country would be placed in receivership. Unfortunately most US citizens don't realise this as their politicians are like ours and don't come clean on these things.


Peter.

Peter.

[Termite]

Hey, aren't we Aussies too in cane-toad country? Just because we don't all look alike, like you Southerners .....

Rocker

If you start wearing big funny hats and speak like Speedy Gonzales, you'll fit right in, Amigo. :D

[Bodgy]

Whilst I have only scant knowledge of the old Gold standard and ramifications, I certainly agree with the thrust of Peter's argument. It's said that the real losers of WWII were the Russians, in terms of suffering and dead soldiers (and probably Stalin thereafter) and the British in terms of debt and losing their Empire (partly to the US in exchange for some old destroyers). The real winners were the US (finiancially) Germany and Japan, with rebuilt economies and small reparations.

Certainly the US is guilty of economic imperialism, but its a bit hard to condemn them for this. The government of the US has always run the country like a global business, for the benefit of its citizens - like the British Empire was run. They've been very successful in this, and probably own half the world's assetts by now.

America is a business, always has been, well for a long time anyway. Their Civil War was primarily for economic reasons even back then.

They saved our ass from Japan and I think the vast majority of Americans are honest and decent people. If you're going to have an economic overlord, they're probably the best going around.

The thing I find interesting is that I think China may well replace the US, as the major military and economic power in our region, in the next 20 years. We may well look back on the days of US domination with nostalgia.

At least the food will be better, and I find the girls prettier.

[Sturdee]

The thing I find interesting is that I think China may well replace the US, as the major military and economic power in our region, in the next 20 years.

That and the other main power will be a united Europe (including Russia) and the USA will become a bit player on the world's stage. Where that will leave us with our reliance on the USA is a great worry.

The future indeed will be a combination of what was described in " 1984 " and " A brave new world ".


Peter.

[ryanarcher]

Possably he is being frugal with his words and is saying,"If you get caught peeking then duck." :rolleyes:


or maybe he's just having Peking duck for dinner?:D

[Gumby]

The future indeed will be a combination of what was described in " 1984 " and " A brave new world ".
Peter.

Not to mention 'Noddy Goes to Toyland' :D :D

[Iain]

What I found intersesting was an interview that Margaret Throsby was conducting a couple of years ago (for those who listen to ABC FM) and it appeared that the majority of US soldiers did not know the difference between Iraq and Iran, and there was only one currency and everyone spoke 'american'.
Of course if they don't understand, you shout to make it clear:rolleyes:

[Bodgy]

90% of US citizens do not have a passport.

[Termite]

And it's very cold here in Austria at the moment. :rolleyes:

[Groggy]

That and the other main power will be a united Europe (including Russia) and the USA will become a bit player on the world's stage. Where that will leave us with our reliance on the USA is a great worry.

The future indeed will be a combination of what was described in " 1984 " and " A brave new world ".


Peter.The sheer size of China and its potential to be a military juggernaut will possibly lead to the amalgamation of nations in response to a perceived threat. Should China continue to militarise and modernise its forces (occuring on a massive scale at present), Asia, Europe, Oceania and the Middle East may form alliances that until now have seemed unlikely.

I fear we have the potential to be entering a dark age soon, politically and environmentally.

[Termite]

The sheer size of China and its potential to be a military juggernaut will possibly lead to the amalgamation of nations in response to a perceived threat. Should China continue to militarise and modernise its forces (occuring on a massive scale at present), Asia, Europe, Oceania and the Middle East may form alliances that until now have seemed unlikely.

I fear we have the potential to be entering a dark age soon, politically and environmentally.

It's a terrible thought but we are helping to finance their economy with our purchases of machinery.
On the good side China is one of the few countrys where we actually have a trading surplus.

[Studley 2436]

This is getting to be a juicy sort of discussion.

Peter I am not making any aspertions or criticisms of you but keeping the US dollar down makes it harder for them to buy up things from other countries. A low dollar means you need more of them to buy things in other currencies. It is a clever form of protectionism to hold your currency low as it's buying power is reduced in the world market. It helps your exporters and restricts your importers.

Post WWII the Americans largely financed the reconstruction of the world. They gave money to everyone. Britain actually got more money from the Americans than Germany did. Britain did however spend it on housing and welfare not on wealth producing assets the rest is history.

This goes right to the heart of the question, "who pays for war?" Which always used to be "the loser" thus reparations etc. In this case America won and paid for the war but something interesting happened there were no productive resources in the way of factories and the like in Europe to cover the high demand for reconstruction. As a result most of this American money was going back to America to purchase just about everything.

Really that is a long time ago now and right or wrong it is what they did at that time. It is easy to make better decisions with hindsight.

China is another interesting topic. Did you know that China's economy is
1/6th the size of Japans? Likewise I don't think there is much risk they will go on a rampage to rule asia or anything else like that. It is bad business to bomb your customers. Of course China is going to become a major economic force when that happens is anyones guess. Likewise India also is an emerging economy likely to become a major force. However I don't think America will go away anytime soon. Europe is bedded in it's social democracy way of doing things, this conflict in particular between the French and the Germans will take time. The French badly want to keep their agriculture subsidies. So for Europe to become an economic powerhouse that could dominate the world will take time.

I can't see any rapid change coming about however there is always change and as others have pointed out large forces are in play that could dramatically alter the world we live in. It will be different perhaps but not neccesarily any worse.

Stephen

[Fang's son]

This is a bit offsided but Americans out there this is my reply to benny laid. The cabbage patch fella. We only love you while we are playing.


Hey benny laid,
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You know why Tasmanians have two heads don’t you?
<o:p> </o:p>
It’s so we can have a decent conversation when we go to the mainland!!!
<o:p> </o:p>

[imdusty]

Thanks for the clarification. For the record, most Americans I know don't like "our" foriegn policies either. I enjoy this forum and learn plenty, even some about woodworking.

[imdusty]

I posted a reply yesterday, but for some reason it didn't work. Go figure.
The reply was short, just a thank you for clarification. For the record, most people I know don't like "our" foreign policies either. I enjoy this sight and learn a lot, ...... even a little about woodworking!

[DanP]

Dusty,

Your post worked and is still there. Welcome to the forum. As previously stated, most things that my seem crude to you are only said in jest and you will take a little while to get used to the Aussie humour. Hang about and you will enjoy your time.

Dan

[Waldo]

but are objecting to the yankee imperialism that their country feels it ought to inflict on the rest of the world.
Peter.

I'm wading in here real late on this topic bit thought I'd have a poke in here before I hit the sack.

I have to fully agree with Surdee on the above and that is a big gripe for me about Americans, but there are good blokes on both sides. And don't give me the wooha that they're the saviour for the whole world or that Bush or any president is the leader of the free world, then you really get me going.

And the baseball World Series, I thought it's only teams in America playing, don't remember seeing China or Greenland playing, so what gives? Or is that part of the "we are the world" thing?

And Wongo, what's wrong with Queenslanders mate? :D

I've made some posts in the past which I've apologised to the bloke I directed it to. But at the end of the day let's all have fun in our shed stuffing up perfectly good bits of wood and help each other out make the stuff ups a bit better, and along the way we can share our Aussie humour beyond the shores of this great brown land.

Mate, I love this country! And let's ditch the national anthem for what I think it should be instead, "Great Southern Land" by Icehouse. :)

[Robert WA]

Waldo.

"And the baseball World Series, I thought it's only teams in America playing, don't remember seeing China or Greenland playing, so what gives? Or is that part of the "we are the world" thing?"

I was once told that the series was initiated and sponsered by a newspaper called "News of the World" and known as "the World". The "World Series" is named after the paper, so the story goes.

Hopefully, one of the Yank members will be able to confirm, or deny, my information.

[Waldo]

G'day RobertWa,

Hey thanks for that. That puts to bed something that bugged the heck out of me, and all based on a perception rather than fact. :)

And anyone watch Planet of the Apes tonight? At the ending Buck Rogers got back home to find it over run by monkeys. Nice twist. It is isn't it, true I mean? And so much body hair on them too. :D Looked a bit like Zed.

[Bodgy]

An example of how you don't necessarily need an army to control other countries. When Britain and France invaded Suez in response to Nasser's nationalisation of the canal, it took them about a day to occupy Suez, and basically were finished by teatime. The US, this was when the senior and very bent Kennedy's anti English influence prevailed, forced Britain to withdraw by threatening huge financial penalties (can't quite remember what, something to do with the gold standard and war loans I think)

The Poms packed up and went home. The US was determined to finish off the remnants of Empire and to filled the power vacuum created.

Not saying what they did at Suez was right or wrong, but it was an enormous change in the way the world worked, led to the fall of Eden (who was quite ill too) and not one shot fired - by the Seppo's that is, any only a few by the Eygptians too.

[Iain]

Waldo.

"And the baseball World Series, I thought it's only teams in America playing, don't remember seeing China or Greenland playing, so what gives? Or is that part of the "we are the world" thing?"

I was once told that the series was initiated and sponsered by a newspaper called "News of the World" and known as "the World". The "World Series" is named after the paper, so the story goes.

Hopefully, one of the Yank members will be able to confirm, or deny, my information.
Thats a bit like the Vic bike race, the sun tour, is that sponsered by the Herald Sun or Suntour the Jap gear people??

[Driver]

Bodgy

That's an interesting summary of the Suez crisis. Is it possible that the US may have had an eye on what the Soviets were doing in Hungary at the same time?

[Bodgy]

Driver, absolutely. The timing was really bad for the Poms, Frogs and of course Hungarians. THe Seppos couldn't just condemn Stalins invasion and subsequent slaughter of the Hungarians whilst the FrogPoms were doing a similar thing in Eygpt - without the brutality.

Whilst the Seppos couldn't get a security council vote, as the FrogPOms had seats and thus vetoes, they did get a General Assembly vote up 65-4 condemning the invasion.

This wasn't what caused the withdrawal tho. That was the big financial stick. I've read all of Churchills biographys' and one on Eden, and thats were the info comes from.

Partly US distaste for Empire and colonies, often expressed by their Sec of State John Foster Dulles (of CIA fame) but also an opportunity to finally stuff an old rival. Which they did. Eisenhower was originally onside with the PomFrogs and Israelies but was talked around by the Sec of State.

A bit ironic really as the US had its own 'colonies', ie Philipines, Guam and other Pacific Islands, Okinawa, West Germany etc.

The following quotes are interesting:

At the same time, ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com /><st1:City w:st=Suez</st1:City> was the last occasion when the European powers might have withstood and brought down a <ST1:place w:st="on">Third World</ST1:place> dictator who had shown no interest in international agreements, except where he could profit from them. Nasser's victory at <st1:City w:st="on">Suez</st1:City> had among its fruits the overthrow of the pro-Western regime in <st1:country-region w:st="on">Iraq</st1:country-region>, the Egyptian occupation of the <st1:country-region w:st="on">Yemen</st1:country-region>, and the encirclement of <st1:country-region w:st="on"><ST1:place w:st="on">Israel</ST1:place></st1:country-region> which led to the Six Day War - and the bills were still coming in when I left office.

As I came to know more about it, I drew four lessons from this sad episode. First, we should not -get into a military operation unless we were determined and able to finish it. Second, we should never again find ourselves on the opposite side to the <st1:country-region w:st="on">United States</st1:country-region> in a major international crisis affecting <st1:country-region w:st="on"><ST1:place w:st="on">Britain</ST1:place></st1:country-region>'s interests. Third, we should ensure that our actions were in accord with international law. And finally, he who hesitates is lost.

Margaret Thatcher


The events of October 1956 nevertheless helped to renew momentum for European integration. <st1:country-region w:st="on">Hungary</st1:country-region> reminded western Europeans of the nature and proximity of the Soviet regime; <st1:City w:st="on"><ST1:place w:st="on">Suez</ST1:place></st1:City> made them resentful of American tutelage. Inspired by Monnet and the Belgian economist Paul-Henri Spaak, “the Six” drafted the Euratom (http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9033263) Treaty for a joint nuclear energy agency and the Treaty of Rome (http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9083849) to expand the coal and steel community into a full-fledged Common Market. The treaties were signed on March 25, 1957, and went into effect on Jan. 1, 1958. The European Economic Community (http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9033269) provided for internal and external tariff coordination, free movement of labour and capital, and a common agricultural pricing policy. Integration theorists hoped that international economic institutions would sustain a momentum leading to political unity as well.

Encyclopedia Brittanica

It's fascinating how these events change the course of history.

Aplogies to members who are not interested, I do tend to go on.


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[Cliff Rogers]

.....
ffice:office" /><O:p></O:p>

I thought you didn't like using those things. :confused:

Cut & paste from MS office product gotchya.:D