Car Insurance - Write off - payouts - Ever been in an argument with insurer?

[woodPixel]

Hi all,

This is a silly hypothetical question.

It seems that some cars are going ballistic in price (not to mention houses! Holy hell!)

This month I renew my car insurance. I keep a close eye on it and make a habit of ensuring I get a good price.

Now, I've an OLD HSV Clubsport VX. Its black and shiny and sexy, but it was born in 2001.... 5th April (next month, happy birthday car!).

According to the insurer, the value is 9900... I insured it for 15k. They were (and still are) OK with this. It is looked after.

BUT, according to Red Book and every car-selling site out there (FBMP, GT, carguide, etc), the price of these has gone ballistic in the last year ($55 to $58k!). The insured value 2 years ago was acceptable, for if I were en-bingled enough for a writeoff the cover would easily have bought another.

Not so now.

EDIT: I forgot to add, it has now been changed to "Market Value". Market Value is not disclosed but is a blanket statement of......


f you choose to insure your car for market value, we’ll determine the market value of your car right before the claimed incident. We use recognised industry guides to do this, and consider things like its make, model, age, kilometres travelled, accessories and modifications fitted as well as its general condition


So! The question! Has anyone here ever had a writeoff that subsequently involved being stiffed by the insurer? 4WD owners, country people or luxury car owners?

What did you DO about it, and was it resolved amicably?


I'd like to think that if I owned a Lamborghini and it were insured, that if it was destroyed one could buy another of the same make/model... or close enough thereof (minus a few deductibles, yada yada, but this isn't the essence of the question).


More info:
-- I've been with QBE forever. They are awesome. 10+ highly recommend
-- No other insurer will touch the car... its a sports car
-- It is natural, no modifications
-- My question is entirely hypothetical
-- Yes, this pic is my car
-- I pay $48 a month for comprehensive
-- Agreed value can't be raised above $15k (its their limit)


490513 490515 490516

[BobL]

Back in 2010 an idiot "driving while texting" ran into my 2004 Hiace van. Thankfully it was relatively slow speed - I was almost stopped and he was doing about 30-40 kph. Thankfully no one was seriously hurt even though none of the air bags deployed but he did total both vehicles.

Aside from almost killing me I was doubly because
a) My vehicle had just been serviced and had a wheel alignment done ($350)
b) I had just filled it with $70 worth of diesel.
c) I lost most of my (very difficult period in which to get time off work) planned week long holiday leave to sort out this crap, eg driving wife to-from her work in city traffic so I can use her vehicle to drive to where my vehicle is located and remove the extras from the vehicle, looking for a replacement vehicle, and eventually re-installing extras back into replacement vehicle.

My van was insured for "market value" which was at the time nominally ~$15k and I though I might have trouble getting that because van was cosmetically not that good - fortunately some of that was masked by the prang.

OTOH it had low miles, and I got a letter from my mechanic that said the vehicle had been regularly serviced by him and was mechanically in well above average shape.
I had also fitted with internal custom rails and racks - commercial value would have to be quite a few hundred bucks worth
I sent all this info to the insurers (SGIO) and waited - it took ages but I was eventually offered $17.5k as a payout which I was really pleased about.

[rustynail]

If you want fair value on specialist cars you usually have to go to a specialist insurer. Well, that's been my experience. I currently use Shannons.

[DomAU]

I'm not sure what the question is. If you've insured it for an agreed value of 15k then that's what your insurer will pay in the event of total loss. If it's someone elses fault, if you claim through your insurer that's still all they will pay. If it's someone elses fault and you don't use your insurance then you should be able to get fair market value - but you'll have to fight your own battle and in my opinion, and experience, this can be difficult as people have a tendancy to skew the truth even in their own heads once they've had some time after an accident and sometimes won't co-operate or tell the truth and it ends up in court.

Having said that on two occasions when my parter was not at fault in an accident we had her car repaired without using our insurance and the other parties were co-operative.

The safest way is to have it insured for full value but be prepared to pay a LOT more than you are now.

Cheers, Dom

[Chris Parks]

Flip it if you can get over 50K for it and buy something that doesn't have insurance problems. I can't image Shannons not insuring it but getting it insured for what they have ben selling for might take a bit of talking.

[Beardy]

If you have insured it for an agreed value of 15k or whatever they are not going to pay you market value be that 5k or 50k if that is what they currently sell for.

If you are not happy with their valuation talk to Shannon’s to see what they will offer you

[woodPixel]

I apologise. A whole chunk of what I typed was somehow missed....

This...

EDIT: This has now been changed to "Market Value". Market Value is not disclosed but is a blanket statement of......


If you choose to insure your car for market value, we’ll determine the market value of your car right before the claimed incident. We use recognised industry guides to do this, and consider things like its make, model, age, kilometres travelled, accessories and modifications fitted as well as its general condition.


This obviously changes the nature of the question! I look like a complete cretin without it.... apologies!


The problem is this.... the Glasses Guide and their own valuation is $9900. Red book and Reality is ~$56K


This now makes more sense.

[Handyjack]

In the last two years the family has had two 2009 vehicles written off due to being hit in the rear or side swiped.
Both times we received about $1-2,000 more than what similar vehicles were selling for (ignoring kms). One vehicle had full comprehensive insurance and once contacted we had no problems with the claim.
The other vehicle was third party only, and it took about four weeks or more to settle. The other insurance company I think did not even come and look at the vehicle but relied on images we provided. The last few hundred dollars on their value was us arranging for the vehicle to be sold for parts and scrapping.

[riverbuilder]

That Clubsport is worth at least $45k, my mechanic mate just found one, in a garage, washed it and put two new tyres on it and sold it within 3 days for $53,000.
He uses Shannon’s for insuring all his classic muscle cars,and he has a lot of cars, they give him a good deal apparently.

[rrich]

There is a universal rule, planet wide, for dealing with an insurance company.

"The insurance company is not and never will be your friend."

[woodhutt]

Just out of interest. Is vehicle insurance obligatory in Oz? I'm ashamed to say that it isn't here in NZ. Because of this, it forces responsible owners to opt for fully comp. insurance (especially those who rely on their vehicle for work/business) often with the additional premium for vehicle hire if it becomes necessary.

There was a report only the other day of an uninsured hoon who wrote-off his own vehicle and the innocent party's NZ$43,000 vehicle. Luckily, the second party had fully comp and was paid out. The insurance company is now reclaiming the cost from the first party at $100 per week.

Despite moves to make insurance obligatory, the Gummint has declined to do so.

Pete

[Beardy]

Just out of interest. Is vehicle insurance obligatory in Oz? I'm ashamed to say that it isn't here in NZ. Because of this, it forces responsible owners to opt for fully comp. insurance (especially those who rely on their vehicle for work/business) often with the additional premium for vehicle hire if it becomes necessary.

There was a report only the other day of an uninsured hoon who wrote-off his own vehicle and the innocent party's NZ$43,000 vehicle. Luckily, the second party had fully comp and was paid out. The insurance company is now reclaiming the cost from the first party at $100 per week.

Despite moves to make insurance obligatory, the Gummint has declined to do so.

Pete

We have mandatory personnel insurance through our CPT Green slip system that covers personal injury but not property or vehicles

My young and dumb son didn’t think he needed insurance when he first started driving and had an at fault accident that did $150,000 damage to the other parties vehicle. The lawyers started the process of hunting him for the money ( he didn’t have a cent to his name)
I let it go for a month or two to let him sweat before I told him that I had taken out insurance on his behalf without his knowledge, gave him the details and they sorted out the claim payment
A lesson learnt

[BobL]

There is a universal rule, planet wide, for dealing with an insurance company.

"The insurance company is not and never will be your friend."

After getting a good payout from my insurance company and purchasing a replacement vehicle (valued at $26k), when I got quote from the insurers for the replacement vehicle lucky I was sitting down as it was more than for our $50k 4WD. I then thought they had not applied my "no claim bonus" since the accident that wrote off my van was not my fault. When I queried the quote, no - that was the cost and they were not budging. I then got a quote from RAC and with the membership discount it was far more reasonable and also switched our 4WD insurance to them as well.

[pippin88]

We have mandatory personnel insurance through our CPT Green slip system that covers personal injury but not property or vehicles

My young and dumb son didn’t think he needed insurance when he first started driving and had an at fault accident that did $150,000 damage to the other parties vehicle. The lawyers started the process of hunting him for the money ( he didn’t have a cent to his name)
I let it go for a month or two to let him sweat before I told him that I had taken out insurance on his behalf without his knowledge, gave him the details and they sorted out the claim payment
A lesson learntGeez he is lucky to have you as a dad.

I would never drive without 3rd party insurance.

In some countries the driver is insured rather than the car. Means you don't have to worry that someone hasn't paid their insurance if you drive their car.

[pippin88]

After getting a good payout from my insurance company and purchasing a replacement vehicle (valued at $26k), when I got quote from the insurers for the replacement vehicle lucky I was sitting down as it was more than for our $50k 4WD. I then thought they had not applied my "no claim bonus" since the accident that wrote off my van was not my fault. When I queried the quote, no - that was the cost and they were not budging. I then got a quote from RAC and with the membership discount it was far more reasonable and also switched our 4WD insurance to them as well.Pays to shop around pretty much every year. Often a great deal of variation without much reason that I can see.

There does seem to be a tendency for the companies to gradually jack up the premium each year and you have to jump ship to another company. Does have implications for loyalty bonuses sometimes but often worth it

[LanceC]

Pays to shop around pretty much every year. Often a great deal of variation without much reason that I can see.

There does seem to be a tendency for the companies to gradually jack up the premium each year and you have to jump ship to another company. Does have implications for loyalty bonuses sometimes but often worth it

I've come to regard the whole loyalty bonus thing as a marketing exercise, with no relation to discounted insurance. We generally use two insurance companies as they have been a pleasure to deal with when we've needed them. In both cases though, after many years of renewals I realised that by simply signing up for a new policy each year rather than renewing, I received a significant discount. I even tried calling once to see if they would match the "new" policy price for the renewal... but no dice. So I let the old one lapse and bought the new one.

[Lappa]

That’s similar to my PC virus protection software. I’ve been with them for years but it’s about 1/3rd cheaper to buy a new install every year rather than pay their renewal fee. I asked them once and the answer was basically ‘thats the way it is”?

[elanjacobs]

Make sure you're sitting down for a Shannon's quote, they wanted over $3k to insure my S2000 for $23k (which is still way under current market price). Currently paying $1800 with QBE; still stupid expensive, but rare performance car with expensive spare parts and basically zero shared components will do that...

[Beardy]

Make sure you're sitting down for a Shannon's quote, they wanted over $3k to insure my S2000 for $23k (which is still way under current market price). Currently paying $1800 with QBE; still stupid expensive, but rare performance car with expensive spare parts and basically zero shared components will do that...

I have some cars with Shannons and are cheaper than the rest but on other cars they were more expensive so it pays to shop around

[elanjacobs]

If you choose to insure your car for market value, we’ll determine the market value of your car right before the claimed incident. We use recognised industry guides to do this, and consider things like its make, model, age, kilometres travelled, accessories and modifications fitted as well as its general condition.
What they conveniently DON'T mention, is that if your car has been previously written off and repaired, it automatically knocks some 40% off their assessed market value. That screwed me to the value of $10k in repairs after an accident.

[woodPixel]

Its all fresh and new. Ive owned it since birth. I know every scratch and dink.

I think Elan that you are right. The terms they use are so nebulous as to be worthless. "Market Value" is clearly the lowest number that they can get away with.

QBE do ask about prior prangs and whatnot. They are a good insurer and Ive no cause for complaint, BUT I don't wish to tempt the fates and get into a battle with them.

A bit of certainty would be nice.

Given that (Id wager) everyone here has "market value" insurance.... this mustn't sit very comfortably with them. All other insurances are specified, but curiously cars are not.

Its odd that I've not really given it too much thought until now..... I think its because (my beastie type) are getting are getting rare.


I thought to restate my objective in this thread:

--- First, is that the Market Value the insurance company claims it may be, can be drastically different to reality (i.e they give you $10k and the car sells for $55k on gumtree)
--- Second, has anyone ever had a battle with an insurer over them being stiffed on a payout (I assume a lawyer is hired and some stern letters are exchanged).

[elanjacobs]

When I spoke to the assessor, he said that, when determining market value, they do actually check the current market and factor that in to what "the book" says, but his hands were tied because of the write-off so he was only allowed to value it at $12k, even though I could sell it for more than double that tomorrow. With a clean title it would have been low-to-mid 20s, which is at least reasonable.

[Beardy]

I recently had a claim on my Polaris ATV which was insured for market value and they decided to write it off
I managed to get an extra 15% over what they were going to pay by getting my own valuation done with a dealer
I was happy with the outcome and thought it was fair and reasonable. Got the payout within days and have ordered a replacement which will be ready at the end of this month

[Warb]

Just to add another wrinkle, I've seen insurance policies where the small print states that if the declared value is significantly different to the market value, not only will they NOT pay the market value, but they will actually reduce the payout below the declared value by a portion of the amount for which it was under insured. So if it's insured for $10K and market value is $20K they'll actually pay less than $10K because it was under insured. I've seen this on both car and property policies, and it's done to prevent people getting low cost insurance on a high risk item by undervaluing the item in question (it also covers people over insuring items, aka fraud). It's a clause that can catch you out even if you are 100% correct with the valuation but the market suddenly changes radically......

My own experience, in all except one case, is that insurance companies are not your friend but are "reasonable" if you are reasonable. If you have heaps of undeclared modifications, or if the vehicle is illegal (modified but not engineered, for example) things get tricky if the claim is big enough that they send out an assessor. The one case where there was a problem involved an insurance company (not in Australia) who stated that "in their experience people of that age do not have audio systems of that value in their cars". They did not care that the declared value included an allowance for the stereo, they would not accept receipts as proof, nor the fact that the partner of the young woman in question owned a hifi shop (domestic, not car), and only changed their mind when the father of the claimant went to his broker (in those days there were insurance brokers with offices!) and stated that his daughter DID have that audio system in her car, and furthermore he would move all his business policies to another company if they didn't pay up.....

On the other hand I have seen a couple of people struggle with insurance (and the police) after accidents in vehicles with oversized tyres, massive suspension lifts etc.

In one case an older gentleman landed his car upside down in a tree outside my farm, and the police gave him a speeding ticket because, as the attending officer told me, "whatever he did to get to that point was wrong, and that has to be made clear to him". As the car had taken out my farm sign, gatepost and tree on its way through, I felt it was fair, but presumably it was reported in the incident report for his insurance claim..... I don't know what happens if you are at fault but were drunk or speeding etc.. Does it affect your claim?

[AlexS]

I don't know what happens if you are at fault but were drunk or speeding etc.. Does it affect your claim? I don't know about speeding, but being drunk certainly will - have a look at the fine print on your policy.
I understand that if you are over the limit and damage someone else's property, the insurers will pay them, but chase you for the money. Open to correction.

[rustynail]

A fellow footballer went into insurance broking not long after we had both come to our senses and ventured into sensible jobs. We were both car nuts as young fellas and were always looking for the best deal. That was nearly 50 years ago. I still use his Company today to suss out the better deals. Not always the cheapest policy but best value for money. The cost for his services is much less than the savings so I continue to indulge the little bugger despite his swollen head.