Sanding smaller pieces

[leyton01]

I am finishing some smaller pieces of various timbers (pine, oak and camphor) and I am struggling with the sanding routine for each. They are about the size of a glasses case with one live edge and the others finished square, I am finishing with Duramax wax finish spray 'paint' (https://www.bunnings.com.au/dulux-300g-matt-clear-duramax-wax-finish-spray-paint_p0034973)(easy and quick).

At the moment I am clamping, sanding with a random orbital sander, unclamp, flip side, sand, etc, then repeat for higher grits. Obviously this is time consuming and I am looking at a better way.

Options I have thought about:
-Hand sand
(don't have to clamp but exhausting)

-Belt and disc sander
-Oscillating spindle sander
Again no clamping but not sure if these will supply a nice finish, may leave sanding marks.
Changing belts may also be annoying and the oscillating belt sanders are $$s. Oscillating spindle sanders are significantly cheaper but not sure if useful for the square sides.

-Combination of the above
Maybe ROS for the initial layer and a sheet sander for higher grits to reduce the amount of paper swapping.

Any suggestions from the collective wisdom of the group?

[aldav]

Can you lightly clamp your ROS in a vice and take the work to the sander rather than the other way around? I've found this works well sometimes. In my experience belt and disc sanders are far too fierce for delicate sanding, that being said I generally only use 120 grit on that machine.

[BobL]

I found my variable speed belt sanders are the go for this sort of thing.
I reserve a couple of well used 120 grit belts which when run at about 1/2 speed don't remove much stock, won't burn the workpieces unless they are pushed hard, and also don't do as much damage to fingers if they accidentally slip off.

The weird looking things in the photo below are ~150 mm long "formers" for SWMBO's needle felting hobby.
I have made dozens of these for her from scraps/slivers of olive and jarrah.
I cut them to approx dimensions on the band saw and then shape and sand them (yep even the square into round) on the belt sander.
So far I haven't lost any skin but I have trimmed some finger nails a few times.

If your work pieces are square or rectangular and are worried about finger damage sacrificial wooden clamps can be made to hold especially the flat sides against the belt

490218

For regular pieces of wood it helps if the sander has a couple of "square stops" near the end of the belt against which work pieces can be held square to maintain squareness etc.

I have two variable speed belt sanders, one is a large 3HP 150mm wide x 1m long beast and the other is a 50mm wide x 300mm long multitool sander that attaches to a 1HP grinder.
I find the bigger one easier to use even on small pieces

[aldav]

My interpretation of your post is that you're only doing finish sanding, not shaping?

[BobL]

My interpretation of your post is that you're only doing finish sanding, not shaping?

Also figured that - my point about mentioning shaping is that greater pressure is required for shaping so less pressure will be required (lower risk) for finish sanding.

BTW I forgot to say that for these small pieces I use a "used" 80 grit for shaping and then switch to "used" 120 grit for finishing.

[aldav]

Post deleted due to intemperate content. :B

[double.d]

I use the mesh type foam drawer liners under everything i sand and if the speed is set correct the piece does not need to be held down.

[leyton01]

Some great ideas!

In reply:
Yes it is finishing only and not removal. I am using 120 grit followed by 320 and that seems to give a nice finish with only 2 steps.

Never thought of securing the ROS and doing it the other way. I will give it a go but I suspect that the randomness of the movement will make it quite hard to hold. Maybe I can make some kind of jig to hold it against.

Mesh foam draw liner would speed up the work for certain items (and I will get some for future use) but these are quite long, narrow pieces and are not stable when stood on the end or side (and one side is a live edge). Hence the clamping I was doing which was time consuming.

My main concern with the belt and disc machines was mentioned - my understanding is they are not really designed for finishing and are uni-directional in their sanding (although oscillating might help). Although if people are using them effectively with worn sheets that is enouraging.

I was even looking at the trade tools belt sander which is designed to convert to a mini desk sander:
RI1200BS Renegade Industrial B/Sander 100 X 610MM Heavy Duty Belt | Hand-Held Power Tools - TradeTools | Huge Range, Great Service (https://www.tradetools.com/product-range/power-tools/hand-held-power-tools/renegade-industrial-610x100mm-1200-watt-belt-sander)
The advantage of this is variable speed control which is not generally found on the smaller dedicated belt/disc sanders.

For something with oscillation the Sherwood bobbin sander seems well spec'd:
https://www.timbecon.com.au/sherwood-oscillating-spindle-sander
Again I am unsure if these are suitable for finishing.

I am happy there were not more suggestions of "just do it by hand" which I was not looking forward to!

[clear out]

Just a thought, could you rig up a vacuum clamp or a sanding table where they are held down by vacuum whilst you orbital sand them. Could take care any dust also.
If they are a similar size possibly sit them in a jig and qa or cam clamp.
There are also brush sanding wheels which fit on your bench grinder, probably scotchbrite versions also.
These could be used in the finer grits after the orbital.
H.

[leyton01]

Vacuum would be great but most of the sides have a small surface area as the piece is quite long - see attached pic. This is a 3 hole but they go up to 6. Sanding each end and the one opposite the live edge could not be done.
490333

[BobL]

Some great ideas!
In reply:
Yes it is finishing only and not removal. I am using 120 grit followed by 320 and that seems to give a nice finish with only 2 steps.
I'm surprised you can remove the 120 scratches with just 320 grit paper, usually I would insert at least one and preferably 2 grit steps between 120 and 320.
eg 180, 240 and then 320.
Using a belt sander I've found a worn 120 grit belt is more than enough for medium large pieces.
For smaller pieces I might sometimes use 240 and that is more than enough.


Never thought of securing the ROS and doing it the other way. I will give it a go but I suspect that the randomness of the movement will make it quite hard to hold. Maybe I can make some kind of jig to hold it against.
My main concern with the belt and disc machines was mentioned - my understanding is they are not really designed for finishing and are uni-directional in their sanding (although oscillating might help). Although if people are using them effectively with worn sheets that is enouraging.
I was even looking at the trade tools belt sander which is designed to convert to a mini desk sander:
RI1200BS Renegade Industrial B/Sander 100 X 610MM Heavy Duty Belt | Hand-Held Power Tools - TradeTools | Huge Range, Great Service (https://www.tradetools.com/product-range/power-tools/hand-held-power-tools/renegade-industrial-610x100mm-1200-watt-belt-sander)
The advantage of this is variable speed control which is not generally found on the smaller dedicated belt/disc sanders.

The uni directionality issue is compensated for by constantly rotating small objects or morse specifically sanding at variable angles. Holding the object onto a belt is much easier than holding against a rapidly rotating surface as all you have to do is provide a constant form in one direction. This is made even easier if a fence is used that enables to work piece to be held up against.

Even for finishing sanding on longer pieces. I use the belt sander in one grain direction, then at 45º to the starting direction, then @90º to that direction and then at 45º to that so by not the object is at 180º to the starting direction, then repeat. These days I only get out the ROS for pieces that are too big or awkward for the the belt sander or already assembled. If this is done then the time spent on subsequent grits is much reduced. I got this tip from a jeweller who showed me how to remove fine scratches using (a highly directional) buffing wheel. This method can also be used widely in wood working eg with (provided the grain allows for this) rough plain of boards


For something with oscillation the Sherwood bobbin sander seems well spec'd:
https://www.timbecon.com.au/sherwood-oscillating-spindle-sander
Again I am unsure if these are suitable for finishing
I've tried using one for finishing but you have to go really lightly otherwise they would easily dent flat surfaces.
The are really useful for inside curves.

For a few years this was all I had.
(The fences are easily removable)

490338
490339

[leyton01]

The 120 I used was also very worn so the difference to 320 was not huge.
The belt sander set up looks good - something I might try before justifying something bigger!