Church pew

[Crunchie]

I hope I haven’t bitten off more that I can chew!!!
For the couple of years I’ve been looking at one of the church pews at our local Sunday venue, wondering how much longer it would stand the weight of people sitting on it. One end seemed to be coming apart at the joints and had a split right down the length. Also, that end of the hymn-book ledge was loose and had two long splits along its length.
Finally, last week I took my trailer, got a few blokes to give me a lift and brought it home.
The pew is cedar (I think) and probably between 80 and 100 years old.
Some one (maybe more) has tried to repair it and made a huge botch of the job.
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The back rest, as it turned out, wouldn’t have come apart as it had a 5” flat-head nail driven into it.
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The split end had a number of screws, 3” and 4” nails driven into it with no attempt to putty up the holes. The edge that was split had a screw inserted that was doing nothing due to only two threads of the screw entering the other side. What was holding it was 3 of 3” nails. The screw and the nails were not recessed; the heads were ground flat with an angle grinder to be level with the surface of the wood. The only way I could get it apart without major damage was to prise it open enough to get an angle grinder in and cut the nails, then remove the bits.
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The small handrests had so many nails driven into them that both were split and just fell apart when removed from the pew ends. I have glued them back together, but I am thinking about making new ones.
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[Crunchie]

I have managed to get the pew 2/3rds disassembled as of today. I won’t get rich, but a 5c and two 1c pieces fell out of the gap between the seat and the backrest. Oh – and a very large paper clip as well, but I don’t think it is worth anything!!
I think this “love job” is going to take a while.
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[dinosour]

Good for you taking on the job, as with a lot of those jobs they are still in need of repair because everyone else has runaway.
Hope it works out well , looking forward to the next installment. Well done

[Handyjack]

What a blessed job pew repair is.
They are often old and well used. Often holding a lot of weight. Not always the easiest to move due to their length.
I have had the joy of trying to repair one that a customer of mine has.

[riverbuilder]

first thing, it isn't cedar. Looks more like Douglas Fir or Californian Redwood. use epoxy glue, it holds to everything.

[Crunchie]

It is not Douglas Fir, but I have never had experience with Californian Redwood, so it could well be that. I have glued the end with Titebond 3; I hope that it is strong enough. I didn't think about using an epoxy: I could probably afford it now, as another 10c fell out of it today.

[Crunchie]

Ah! Californian Redwood - what I've always known as red pine?? Now that I have spent more time with the pew, it is definitely NOT cedar and is red pine or Redwood.
I managed to get back to the pew this morning after a couple of days of family stuff. I could only manage a little over an hour as I have to go to Adelaide and pray for a miracle at Adelaide Oval as the Crows take on Collingwood.
I completed the disassembly of the pew. One of the tenons is looking “chewed up”, so I might have to do the same as Thumbthumper in his post, “Interesting old desk”.
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I reckon some people think; the more nails you use, the stronger you can make the job.
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The trickiest part of disassembly was getting the hymnbook ledge apart with minimal damage. It seems that someone added a few layers of clear finish over the years and this has trickled down the gaps and acted like a glue on places.
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Speaking of glue – It looks like when the pew was made, the Mortise and Tenon joints and the two ends might have been glued (which has long – since failed), but the rest was assembled using countersunk wood screws. I am not going to use the original hardware and am thinking of gluing as much as I can with Titebond 3. Any thoughts?
It is amazing how many “splinters” keep falling out of the joints.
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As far as I can gather, this is the original hardware.
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Now, lets see what has been added. Don’t forget, the flathead nail between the two pieces of angle iron is 5” (125mm) and lots of the others are 4” and 3”.
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Lets also remember the additional bits that came out.
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Oh, well; Off to the footy. Carn the Crows.

[Potts]

Sorry to say it Crunchie but I think you have more chance of divine intervention restoring the pew than the Crows whoopingCollingwood tonight. Maybe the weather will be a leveller.

[Handyjack]

This forum is generally in black and white.
I would reuse or replace the screws as they are a good mechanical fastener. You will need to use slotted screws if you need to retain heritage.

[Bobs_Your_Uncle]

Think of the stresses - the wood rebates resist the downward pew stresses, those big bottoms going down.. So your task is to tighten those joints.. so the stress is passed vertically to the rebate with no opportunity of 'racking' the joint. Glue it, pin it, reinforce it.. but no sideways movement

[Crunchie]

One step forward, four steps backwards.
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The end that I glued last week fell apart. It is strange as the Titebond 3 has worked in the other places of the pew, but didn’t hold at all in this joint. When I scraped the residue off, it seemed almost rubbery.
I might have to try biscuits and epoxy.

[Crunchie]

I finally got the end glued after inserting parallel biscuits and Epoxy (Araldite). After 3 days in the clamps it seems to be quite strong and I managed to get it sanded.
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The other end had a noticeable “chunk” missing above the housing for the hymnbook shelf.
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I finally got to use one of my Pfeil # 21 carving tools to give a flat-bottomed trench to insert a fillet. (I don’t know why I bought them as I’ve never found a use for them before)
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I used my router table to cut out the remnants of a mortise on an intermediate leg. Then I glued wood sections in and planed it back to the original size.
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Now I'd better get on with some of the long pieces so that I can make a clearance in the shed.
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[Crunchie]

My earlier comment about Titebond 3 holding were a little premature. The glue repair in one of the splits on the hymnbook shelf failed. I initially prised the split apart and forced glue in. I have a theory that the various cleaning liquids over the years have contaminated the edges of the timber and the glue is being affected.

Over the weekend I used a 19mm router bit, 6mm deep to trench out the split and inserted a “key”, glued with Titebond 3. This seems to be holding very well.
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[Bohdan]

The only glues that will stick to themselves are epoxy and hide.

If there was any residual PVA glue in the joint you will have a very weak bond that will fail.

To do a proper repair you need to remove any trace of the previous glue if it was PVA.

[Crunchie]

Thanks for previous comments / hints. I ended up buying tins of epoxy from Carbatec to re-assemble the pew. I finally got it finished and returned it to the church on Sunday. I hope that gets me one Browny point with St Peter!!

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