Help, Help, Help

[Clinton1]

A mate of mine has just been taken to the cleaners by the blokes that put in his new deck and the roof that runs over it.
I guess I need two things:
1. Victorians to educate me on the ways to pressure the tradie to either come back and fix it, or to refund the wages component,
2. Help me with info to pass on to him on how to fix it.

The end result of the experience that he had with these guys is that he no longer wants them in his life. They smashed his auto garage door twice, doing major damage, although they repaired it. They did a compete Pooh job and are refusing to come and look at the job and do anything about it.
Actually I'm suspicious as to the reasons as to why he wont take action against them. I'll sort that out if needed as well.

1. I'll put the screws into these guys and am looking for the avenues that I can use to at least put them through the wringer in regards to Fair Trading and other Gov and legal avenues. Some advice on my options would be appreciated.

2. The job was finished two weeks ago. The deck is made from Merbau, the posts holding up the perspex roofing material is Cypress and the framing of the roof is Treated pine. Although the roof covers a 3 m x 12 m area, there are no gutters and no downpipes. The deck was finished with an INTERIOR flooring poly, one coat only and where the major traffic walks on the deck, the "poly" has lifted and worn away.
He intends to sand the deck back and to reseal it and Bristol paints are advising him to use a deck scrub, and an undercoat of an oil based system with a poly on top.
The cypress posts are splitting after the few hot days we have had (up to 3 mm cracks), although they got one coat of the Interior floor poly as well.
Are we able to sand the posts back, oil the hell out of it to get some oil into the posts then seal with a proper poly to try to minimise the splitting?
One corner post was cut too short and has had a piece stuck to it with builders bog. It was cut right on top of the bolt that attaches the TP "fascia" which is part of the roof structure. Won't this cause the roof to lift in wild weather (i.e. the hole for the bolt has nothing on top of it other than builders bog and a 100mm length of Cypress.

I think that he has pretty much run out of $, as this and the landscaping are the last parts of his McMansion to complete. I don't think he can afford to have a carpenter come in and rip it all out and try to rebuild it.
Any advice appreciated, especially with the Cypress posts that are splitting. I guess he needs to replace the cut post, or attach a steel plate to brace the two pieces.
Advice on the avenues to take action against the blokes that did it will be gratefully received, as neither of us have done this before.

I don't know if I'm making too much sense - I'm writing this in a pretty aggro state and am thinking about the less than legal ways of 'resolving' this. I'll probably be a bit calmer tomorrow, if if anyone needs more info before replying, please ask away.

[elphingirl]

Hi Clinton

Cypress is very prone to surface checking as itis usually used when very green (very brittle otherwise). 3mm would be the upper limit of what I would consider acceptable, but my guess is that it probably won't get much worse. Perhaps you could blow in some sealant with a compressor? If you start to fill the gaps you'll never stop.

Not sure about the rest - good luck though.
Justine

[Groggy]

Yikes! Sounds like he hired some day release workers.

Dunno where you are in Melb, but maybe a call to the local building inspector, they usually know how to push a tradies buttons.

Otherwise, call consumer affairs for some advice.

Good luck.

[ausdesign]

Clinton a few points.

The project would have required a building permit due to it being roofed.

guttering and down pipes are required to be installed and the water directed to 'a legal point of discharge' - water tank or storm water line.

the bolt is required for uplift and by the sound of it would not do the job required.
Both of these would be picked up on the final building inspection.

The splitting of the post if not 'structural' will not be knocked back by the inspector.

[Marc]

A mate of mine has just been taken to the cleaners by the blokes that put in his new deck and the roof that runs over it.
I guess I need two things:
1. Victorians to educate me on the ways to pressure the tradie to either come back and fix it, or to refund the wages component,

I am not in Victoria. In NSW you would go to Fair Trading. Must have the same in VIC


The end result of the experience that he had with these guys is that he no longer wants them in his life.

Wise choice, sometimes it is better to let go and cut our losses. Our health comes first.

They smashed his auto garage door twice, doing major damage, although they repaired it. They did a compete Pooh job and are refusing to come and look at the job and do anything about it.

Just from this info I wouldn't want them anywhere near my home regardless of the loss incurred.

1. I'll put the screws into these guys and am looking for the avenues that I can use to at least put them through the wringer in regards to Fair Trading and other Gov and legal avenues. Some advice on my options would be appreciated.

This is a matter for a solicitor, however if you want to hear my opinion, it is not worth it on three accounts. One you are not your mate, second it is not worth the money and the bad blood necessary to get this through, third you never know with this people, they may come back and "fix" the garage door, or you mate's car or something else for good.


2. The job was finished two weeks ago. The deck is made from Merbau, the posts holding up the perspex roofing material is Cypress and the framing of the roof is Treated pine.
The deck was finished with an INTERIOR flooring poly, one coat only and where the major traffic walks on the deck, the "poly" has lifted and worn away.
He intends to sand the deck back and to reseal it and Bristol paints are advising him to use a deck scrub, and an undercoat of an oil based system with a poly on top.

Why such a mixture of timbers ... anyway ... Merbau is nice for a deck, why apply poly to it is beyond me. My guess is that it was not dry and the interior finish did not stick to it.
Should have been oiled and nothing else. To strip the poly now is a big job. perhaps others have better suggestion but I wouldn't use anything but decking oil.

Although the roof covers a 3 m x 12 m area, there are no gutters and no downpipes.
Gutters and downpipes are a must if you want your deck to last, yet that is not a carpenter's job usually even when any carpenter worth his salt would do it anyway. I hope the roof extends nicely over the edge of the deck, some 300 or 400 mm one would hope. Check the quote and see if guttering and storm water connection was quoted. It may well be they don't do it and you need a roof plumber for that.


The cypress posts are splitting after the few hot days we have had (up to 3 mm cracks), although they got one coat of the Interior floor poly as well.
Are we able to sand the posts back, oil the hell out of it to get some oil into the posts then seal with a proper poly to try to minimise the splitting?

I would putty and paint the post with top quality exterior paint. As much as you would like the natural look, they will split and split forever

One corner post was cut too short and has had a piece stuck to it with builders bog. It was cut right on top of the bolt that attaches the TP "fascia" which is part of the roof structure. Won't this cause the roof to lift in wild weather (i.e. the hole for the bolt has nothing on top of it other than builders bog and a 100mm length of Cypress.

You would be surprised how strong Builder's Bog is...:rolleyes: Nee just kidding. Can you re-place the bolt in a lower position or fix the top bit with two flat steel plates each side with two bolts right true? Cheap and effective, yet unsightly, unless you paint the lot with exterior paint then you will not see the patch up at all...if you just run past it that is.

I don't think he can afford to have a carpenter come in and rip it all out and try to rebuild it.
Probably not necessary, unless the insurance comes to the party, then it's another story. Wouldn't this clowns had to have insurance?

Advice on the avenues to take action against the blokes that did it will be gratefully received, as neither of us have done this before.

I would cash in that favour the member of the Victoria Mafia owes you. Short of that and the solicitors expensive solution I don't know any other "final" solutions.

I'm writing this in a pretty aggro state and am thinking about the less than legal ways of resolving this.

Not worth your time my friend, don't stoop down to their level, you will have to crawl on your belly for that...unless of course you cut their horses head off and shovel it into their bed as they sleep....

[ozwinner]

VCAT (http://www.vcat.vic.gov.au/CA256DBB0022825D/HomePage?ReadForm&1=Home~&2=~&3=~)
Is all you need.
Only costs $30 odd bucks, or is it $60, anyway its the way to go.

Al :)

[Firewalker]

unless of course you cut their horses head off and shovel it into their bed as they sleep....

LMAO!!! I needed a laugh this morning. Nice one!

[Clinton1]

Horses head :eek: I was thinking of a phone call to the ATO! Perhaps I should have said underhand.

So in regards to the splitting posts - would oiling the beejaysus out of them and then giving a proper poly coat minimise the splitting. He wants the timber grain look if it is possible.
I was thinking that 'rehydrating' the timber and then sealing in the oil might minimise further splitting?
Bad idea? Not as good as putty and paint...?

Did I mention that this really gives me the richards?

[ozwinner]

Cypress will split no matter what you do to it, its just a crap timber to work with.

Al :)

[Sturdee]

Horses head :eek: I was thinking of a phone call to the ATO!

Brilliant idea.:D

Especially as the ATO always prosecutes both parties to any tax evasion. Not only the contractor, if his books are not okay, but your mate as well for any of his breaches of the tax act that may be uncovered. I'm sure your mate will be grateful.


Peter.

[JDarvall]

Clinton, What do you mean by 'a mate of mine' was ripped off. Sounds like it happened to you, yes ? no ?

Doesn't matter anyway. Not really much you can do about it, I think. Not worth it. I've been ripped off heaps by tradies. That's why I do everything myself nowdays, even if it takes me a while to work out how to do it. Don't like being in the position where I feel I have to question everything their doing to ensure their doing the right job.....anxious stuff. Its a shame that professionals can't be trusted. I mean, why isn't it important to themselves to do a job right. Where's their pride eh ?

She'll be right. :)

[Clinton1]

Nah, not me aprico - I haven't got the money to buy the materials for the stuff I need done, let alone pay for labour. No deck for me, instead its lowering paving and trying to work out drainage. If what has happened to him was done to me - I'd have done something rash and made a little louder noise. In fact I'd probably be still throwing random objects around and swearing.

I knocked off work early today and had a chat to him on the quiet. Seems he did try to get them to rectify it, and that experience left him thinking it is best to just stay well clear of the guys that did it. His call.

Sturdee - I reckon he wouldn't have too much trouble with the ATO, and I'm not such a dill as to drop a mate in the thick of it without so much as a 'by your leave'. Thanks for the advice though.

[coastie]

:D Sounds like the Dodgy Brothers have migrated to Victoria!!

[Sturdee]

Sturdee - I reckon he wouldn't have too much trouble with the ATO, and I'm not such a dill as to drop a mate in the thick of it without so much as a 'by your leave'. Thanks for the advice though.

Clinton, no problems but from your description of the size and scope of the work done it may well be that your mate had to register with the ATO for the reporting requirements whilst doing building works.

During my working life I knew of three people who failed to comply with these wonderful, but fairly unknown, requirements of the tax law.

Two, who only had to report the transactions, were fined by the ATO and the other who, because of the sums involved, should have deducted tax installments was fined and had to pay the tax installment he should have deducted as the tradie had done a runner.


My advice is, that unless your an tax accountant, stay as far away from the ATO that you can because they often can bite you because inadvertantly you also made mistakes.

Peter.

[bennylaird]

I have heard......

We can be our own worst enemies with "cash jobs". While it appears to save money there are businesses that run on that premise. Workers have no rights or protection and are force to work that way or they will find someone else. Then the business understates their earnings and makes heaps. I have a friend who is in the ATO and out to prosecute this sort of thing. Having great success with it as well. Like I said you can shoot yourself in the foot at times.

Anyway thats what I heard.....

[seanr]

Surely your mate checked these guys work before giving them the job!!!
When the quote was made the species of timbers should have been mentioned . Must be the only deck ever to have poly on it !!!!!!!!!!
Sounds like your mate needs a little educating!!!!

[Eastie]

If you really want to see how smart they are talk to your mate about telling them he'll make a written complaint, along with photo's of the problems, to the Building Commission. Most builders with any self respect would be more inclined to listen to what you have to say and come to some form of agreement rather than go through the rigours of being investigated, and potentially prosecuted/deregistered by the Commission for failing to meet requirements under the Building Act/Regulations. Builders are licensed for a reason, and just like vehicle licenses, the right to hold one can be tested and penalties applied if need be for failing to meet conditions of the license.