The Climate Change Hoax

[Dareen]

Certainly far more believable than all the political and media rhetoric. Cheers, Fred

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKmz7OGcyzU)

[Bernmc]

Dunning and Kruger were probably 'paid by the government' too :rolleyes:

[RossM]

Pseudo-scientific bull crap. Right up there with the hoax of tobacco causing lung cancer and the viruses causing disease hoax.

[rwbuild]

I thought the Dunning Kruger effect was the government :D

[Tccp123]

There is no doubt climate change is upon us and if you live anywhere near the ocean you should be prepared to evacuate to higher ground at a moment's notice as the seas rise with the melting of the ice caps. However if you live near Wollongong you're probably OK as it seems to be defying the laws of nature (i.e. water finds its own level). I recently visited Towradgi rock pool and it looked exactly the same as it did fifty six years ago when my father made me swim three hundred yards there before I was allowed into the ocean on a surfboard.

[FenceFurniture]

Certainly far more believable than all the political and media rhetoric. Cheers, Fred

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKmz7OGcyzU)Yeah, it's so much safer, easier and less challenging staying in one's comfort zone isn't it? Especially when there is a much shorter future left in one's life. Why worry? Someone else will (try to) fix the mess. Just like having a maid really.

A question though Dareen: do you grandchildren share your view of their future?



Keep fiddling - the flames aren't too high yet. There's still a few buildings left to go before there's nothing at all left....

[Tccp123]

Food for thought:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Rtystv7dc (https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D-0Rtystv7dc&data=02%7C01%7C%7C16632c26dfe34d6b81d008d7be28e6ff%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637186955187242781&sdata=bNj3gDNGQyQW59pLrdQ6VFIw6rLTOS5rWTZuQ9ivZdY%3D&reserved=0)

[AlexS]

Please don't waste peoples' time by posting links to dubious experts. If you disagree with the existing scientific evidence, post your refutation of it and the evidence that it's wrong, not just a link to "some bloke on the internet."

[bueller]

Times like these I feel less of a need for this subforum. Here for woodworking, not science for the insane.

[RossM]

Sigh...

More evidence that Dunning/Kruger were right.

Sadly, confirmation and disconformation bias is also alive & well - no amount of objective fact will stand in the way of predetermined belief. ("The Enigma of Reason by "Sperber & Mercier" is a good read if you have the time).

I do find it disheartening that a goodly amount of effort, energy & public resource has been spent on education that has obviously failed so many.

[FenceFurniture]

If you disagree with the existing scientific evidence, post your refutation of it and the evidence that it's wrong, not just a link to "some bloke on the internet."I don't recall seeing any proper evidence yet from a denier, in the various threads here. Maybe there's a reason for that? Have seen lots of links to some blokes on the net though (always blokes too....). That Peter Temple twat has worked for the oil industry....say no more on his lack of credibility....



I do find it disheartening that a goodly amount of effort, energy & public resource has been spent on education that has obviously failed so many.As do I, but it's not all wasted Ross - apparently there has been quite an uptick in fence sitters now accepting the facts, after Black Summer (and if that doesn't convince people then they are just ignoring evidence right in front of them....at their grandchildren's peril :(()



... no amount of objective fact will stand in the way of predetermined belief.That is quite right, and as NeilS has also said: it's a waste of time and energy trying to get deniers to see reason - they don't want to - too dangerous for them. I couldn't be fagged participating in this thread any more - it's just giving it oxygen (unless something really has to be refuted as complete tosh).

[Tccp123]

Move to Wollongong, it's defying the trend! :-)

[Tccp123]

Some more irrelevant climate info from another "bloke on the Internet". You're under no obligation to read it...

Senator Matthew Canavan - PM Live - CSIRO Silence | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/SenatorCanavan/videos/831337084048174/?v=831337084048174)

[RossM]

Some more irrelevant climate info from another "bloke on the Internet". You're under no obligation to read it...

Senator Matthew Canavan - PM Live - CSIRO Silence | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/SenatorCanavan/videos/831337084048174/?v=831337084048174)
Nothing to see here - just Barnaby's god bothering lapdog doing what his mates at Carmicheal are are paying him to do.

[Tccp123]

LOL. That's what I love about these discussions. Even when they're caught with their hand in the till the lefties always have an answer (no matter how silly it is) :)

[NCArcher]

Some more irrelevant climate info from another "bloke on the Internet". You're under no obligation to read it...

Senator Matthew Canavan - PM Live - CSIRO Silence | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/SenatorCanavan/videos/831337084048174/?v=831337084048174)
The fact that that halfwit thought he had scored a major point just reinforces everyone's opinion of him. Clearly too subtle for some to grasp. :doh:

[Lappa]

Please don't waste peoples' time by posting links to dubious experts. If you disagree with the existing scientific evidence, post your refutation of it and the evidence that it's wrong, not just a link to "some bloke on the internet."
Does that also apply to people quoting the ABC ad nauseum?

[Tccp123]

But the point was that the CSIRO omitted important information from their report and were obviously embarrassed by this. The point (which may have been subtle, as you suggest) was that there is no data to suggest ANY connection between (perceived) climate change and the recent bushfire season. The even more subtle point was that this behaviour seems to be a common theme in the CC 'industry'.

[Tccp123]

Does that also apply to people quoting the ABC ad nauseum?

...not forgetting The Project and The Guardian!

[Fuzzie]

Carl Sagan - "The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

If it had not been for the effort of Carl Sagan the whole ozone layer thing probably wouldn't have been addressed before it was too late and the climate would already be a lot more uncomfortable than it is now. Notwithstanding the deniers, science has help fix some of the ozone layer and many of the acid rain issues of the 70's.

I believe I'm old enough to acknowledge the weather I experienced during my childhood is not like we experience now. I have more trust in the scientific explanations for why that might be rather than somebody chuckling over scoring points by misunderstanding scientific process and making somebody feel uncomfortable for not having an instant response ready. So it takes 10 seconds to read back through a technical document? That's not unusual, but it is cheap fodder for shock jocks who are principally interested in quick comebacks and cheap laughs.

Another one from Carl Sagan -

"We're in very bad trouble if we don't understand the planet we're trying to save."

[Tccp123]

I have more trust in the scientific explanations for why that might be rather than somebody chuckling over scoring points by misunderstanding scientific process and making somebody feel uncomfortable for not having an instant response ready. So it takes 10 seconds to read back through a technical document? That's not unusual, but it is cheap fodder for shock jocks who are principally interested in quick comebacks and cheap laughs.

None of this discussion has been about scientific evidence. My first point was that I had not seen any change in sea level since my childhood. No one even attempted to provide a scientific explanation for this. My second comment was to add a reference to a YouTube video which showed a "bloke on the internet" (MIT PhD) explaining how the Paris Climate Accord worked. I doubt anyone even watched this as no one tried to refute it, there was just a sharp rebuke for posting videos from "some bloke on the Internet". This had nothing to do with science - it was all about the transfer of wealth (from you to them). My third reference was to a video showing how a 'respected' Australian scientific organisation was apparently caught out omitting important information which would have weakened their position.

Notwithstanding the apparent verboten nature of searching on the Internet for useful information about this debate (rather than the ABC or The Project) I find no shortage of material that shows many different points of view. I'm happy to accept scientific evidence if that's what it really is, not after its been 'sanitized' by the party.

[Fuzzie]

My first point was that I had not seen any change in sea level since my childhood. No one even attempted to provide a scientific explanation for this.

Sea Level | Vital Signs – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet (https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/)

[Tccp123]

Sea Level | Vital Signs – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet (https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/)

This article is concocted by an organisation called "Global Climate Change". Have you considered that they might have some skin in the game? And that they might fudge the figures 'just a little' to enhance their position?

Regardless of whether that's true or not the graphs show a steady increase since 1880. No one disputes that but what has been the net effect of this rise in sea levels? Nothing! Zilch, nada! The kids still learn to swim at the Towradgi rock pool. and no one has to evacuate to higher ground. In other words IT DOESN'T MATTER! It's just part of the cycle on our way to a new ice age, but it's so far away that you and I don't have to worry, nor do your grand children or grandchildrens grandchildren.

[Fuzzie]

I guess it depends on whether or not you are concerned about trying to save your grandchildren's children after all. It will be a much longer time after the human race is extinct before the planet is extinct. I'll leave now as I only have my own skin in the game, no issue here.

[Dareen]

OK fellas, I'm sorry I started this post. Seems to have created a heap of criticism of one comment after another and nobody has suggested a 'fix'.
Everybody would have to admit that the planet is in serious trouble and there is no 'simple, straight forward' solution.
If the world leaders can't agree and make the necessary adjustments, eventually God and Nature will take care of it.
Yes. I fear for our younger generations.

[Tccp123]

OK fellas, I'm sorry I started this post. Seems to have created a heap of criticism of one comment after another and nobody has suggested a 'fix'.
Everybody would have to admit that the planet is in serious trouble and there is no 'simple, straight forward' solution.
If the world leaders can't agree and make the necessary adjustments, eventually God and Nature will take care of it.
Yes. I fear for our younger generations.

No need to apologise Dareen for saying what a lot of us think. And don't be cowed by the strident few who will try to shout you down, not with scientific reasoning and logic, but with name calling and accusing you of a callous disregard for the wellbeing of future generations. That's the way the left argues. The world is in no more trouble than it's ever been. Yes it's been a hot few years, just as has happened in the past (look to the start of the twentieth century) but we're not about to self destruct.

If you really want something to worry about listen to a Podcast by an American, Dan Carlin, called Blueprint for Armageddon. It runs for about twelve hours and is about WWI. But more importantly it's a good illustration of what man is capable of and the dire consequences. Mother Nature has nothing on this.

[poundy]

If you really want something to worry about listen to a Podcast by an American, Dan Carlin, called Blueprint for Armageddon. It runs for about twelve hours and is about WWI. But more importantly it's a good illustration of what man is capable of and the dire consequences. Mother Nature has nothing on this.
Not going to comment on your earlier diatribe about your assessment of how CSIRO works nor how people summarise extensive works into readable summaries, but I think you're wrong on this account.

Human kind absolutely is a blight on the planet, but humans can change their behaviour. Mother Nature will absolutely keep doing what it does, with no regard for humans. All we can do is not have our action exacerbate things.

[Tccp123]

Not going to comment on your earlier diatribe about your assessment of how CSIRO works nor how people summarise extensive works into readable summaries, but I think you're wrong on this account.

Human kind absolutely is a blight on the planet, but humans can change their behaviour. Mother Nature will absolutely keep doing what it does, with no regard for humans. All we can do is not have our action exacerbate things.

"My third reference was to a video showing how a 'respected' Australian scientific organisation was apparently caught out omitting important information which would have weakened their position" That's a diatribe? ("a forceful and bitter verbal attack against someone or something"). I can assure you I can do a lot better than that.:)

"Humans can change their behaviour"? That's not what history shows. Or do you believe we've now 'turned the corner'?

[Tccp123]

Dup post

[FenceFurniture]

I couldn't be fagged participating in this thread any more - it's just giving it oxygen (unless something really has to be refuted as complete tosh).Well it didn't take too long for the tosh to rear its head.


My first point was that I had not seen any change in sea level since my childhood. No one even attempted to provide a scientific explanation for this. Firstly, you are relying only on anecdotal evidence from a memory of what it may have been like around 60 years ago - my childhood home is much smaller than I remembered it too - in other words, it is ridiculous to base an assertion on what we may have distorted our memory of. Hardly a scientific approach in the first place.

Second, it's not up to anyone else to provide you with your explanation - that's your job! You are the one making the claim.


I'm happy to accept scientific evidence if that's what it really is, not after its been 'sanitized' by the party.Really? The nature of your comments are evidence of the strongest denial of Anthropogenic Climate Change Denial I think I've ever seen (except maybe Andrew Dolt), so I don't think that there is anything at all that you could read or hear that would change your mind one iota. Especially when I read this:
This article is concocted by an organisation called "Global Climate Change". Have you considered that they might have some skin in the game? And that they might fudge the figures 'just a little' to enhance their position?

Regardless of whether that's true or not the graphs show a steady increase since 1880. No one disputes that but what has been the net effect of this rise in sea levels? Nothing! Zilch, nada! The kids still learn to swim at the Towradgi rock pool. and no one has to evacuate to higher ground. In other words IT DOESN'T MATTER! It's just part of the cycle on our way to a new ice age, but it's so far away that you and I don't have to worry, nor do your grand children or grandchildrens grandchildren.Are you seriously suggesting that NASA has concocted that article? You did see that it was from NASA didn't you? Given that you raised these points:
"Have you considered that they might have some skin in the game?"
"And that they might fudge the figures 'just a little' to enhance their position?"

..how about you provide evidence of your assertions. Or are they baseless, and just thrown into the rhetoric like a bomb to inflame the debate?

Kids still learning to swim in a rock pool is NOT evidence that there is no sea level rise or climate change. For a start, rock pools (in my extensive experience of the Cronulla suite of 4 pools - 100s of visits) generally rely on waves changing the water over, not the tides as such - the walls of the pools are above normal high tide levels - for good reason. That is so that they can still be used safely at high tide without the danger of being flushed over the back wall (they may go under a king tide). So any rise in sea level is not going to change the rock pools much (until it does submerge the walls, of course). Which means I'm hardly surprised that your childhood pool still appears to be the same. Now as for the water line around the outside of the pool, that may have changed.

[Tccp123]

"https://www.woodworkforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by FenceFurniture https://www.woodworkforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f43/climate-change-hoax-232912-post2176575#post2176575)I couldn't be fagged participating in this thread any more - it's just giving it oxygen (unless something really has to be refuted as complete tosh).



Well it didn't take too long for the tosh to rear its head."

Agreed

[aldav]

Glad to see that we're all in agreement about that then. :D :2tsup: Now let's talk about religion, where we'll be able to thrash out not only which is the 'correct' one but also whether any of them have any merit at all. Go. :rolleyes:


Moderator edit

Now let's talk about religion

NO! :no:

[FenceFurniture]

Are you seriously suggesting that NASA has concocted that article? You did see that it was from NASA didn't you? Given that you raised these points:
"Have you considered that they might have some skin in the game?"
"And that they might fudge the figures 'just a little' to enhance their position?"

..how about you provide evidence of your assertions. Or are they baseless, and just thrown into the rhetoric like a bomb to inflame the debate?Oops, no response to any of that.




For a start, rock pools (in my extensive experience of the Cronulla suite of 4 pools - 100s of visits) generally rely on waves changing the water over, not the tides as such - the walls of the pools are above normal high tide levels - for good reason.Evidence to support arguments is paramount.

So, here is my supporting evidence. :;

This is Towradgi Rock Pool, from Google Maps. (all satellite images are labelled as 2020, but could be up to 5 years old, so sea levels may not be accurate :D).
469643

Note how the pool (at the top of pic) sticks out past the high tide mark in the sand (easily seen on the left, exactly halfway up the sand strip). Then of course there is the step up to the concrete surround from the sand which would presumably be at least 250mm, but perhaps tccp123 can say more accurately what the step up in the north western corner is.


Here is South Cronulla Rock Pool.
469644

That looks to be about a 60-70cm step up from the rocks on the left to the top of the concrete wall. You can see some still water pooling on the left about 2/3 the way up the pic. That will be the absolute maximum (normal) high tide mark, but is more likely to have been left there by wave action at high tide - see last pic in this post (which means the water will reach higher than the high tide mark).


Here is Oak Park Rock Pool, the most southern of the Cronulla suite.
469645

Once more, it can be seen that the pool is above the high tide mark. The northern edge of this pool is actually natural rock, not concrete at all, and is close to a metre higher than the concrete walls.


This is how the water gets changed - by wave action, not tidal action. (South Cronulla pool again)
469646
(labelled "Photo - Sep 2019 Jose Maria Molina Alias"



Tccp123, was it low, high or mid tide when you were last at Towradgi, making your observations?

[Tccp123]

Glad to see that we're all in agreement about that then. :D :2tsup:

Yes that one's run its course I think. But religion seems like a murkier subject... What about the Paris Accord? Any views on America's withdrawal from it?

[DavidG]

Yes that one's run its course I think.

I agree.
Closed