Bushfires - Spare a thought for the victims

[Glider]

Yesterday we learned that SWMBO's family farmhouse near Bodalla was lost in the fires. It dates from 1860. Fortunately her sister was staying with us in Sydney having prepared the house against fire and leaving house sitters on site. It's almost on the river flats of the Tuross and the paddocks were mostly green, few trees around the house and no long grass. The sheds, horses and stock survived.

This morning we put her on the plane to Moruya in the hopes they could land in the smoke. I suppose you have to experience it before you realise that everything has been lost. We loaded her up with heavy shoes, asthma medication for the smoke, cash and myriad other things she might need.

In Moruya, Narooma and Bodalla, there's no power and no mobile phones working. The supermarkets are closed - no refrigeration and no credit card facilities. Thousands of people have been evacuated and pretty soon will need extra supplies just to survive.

If you're like me, you have to be part of it to begin to understand the depth of the crisis facing all areas where homes and businesses have been destroyed or under threat. The power of these fires has to be seen to be believed.

Somehow the crackers on Sydney Harbour last night didn't feel right.

mick

[Fuzzie]

Somehow the crackers on Sydney Harbour last night didn't feel right.

mick

Somehow the Government's response doesn't feel quite right.

[Mr Brush]

The government is MIA - too busy watching their pretty fireworks in Sydney.

[Beardy]

I have mixed feelings on it all, where do you draw the line as to what is appropriate? Should there be no celebration for NYE because of the fire tragedy? I guess people respond differently to situations

We spent NYE at a friends with another couple who lost both of their homes and their whole property burnt out earlier that day and they were just happy that their family was safe and said insurance will sort the rest out. They were disappointed the local fireworks were not on.
Other people would respond differently which is fine and appropriate too.

[lovetoride]

We have no idea whether our daughter's house at Lilli Pilli is still standing. Fires Near Me up is not up-to-date as we have seen footage/tweets of many houses burnt in nearby hamlets but those areas are not even greyed out on the map. Now no power, no petrol, no phone coverage. The whole thing is sickening. At least we know she is safe and in Canberra nearby. I didn't want to watch any fireworks last night.

And the conditions are going to be worse again on the weekend

[Glider]

We have no idea whether our daughter's house at Lilli Pilli is still standing. Fires Near Me up is not up-to-date as we have seen footage/tweets of many houses burnt in nearby hamlets but those areas are not even greyed out on the map. Now no power, no petrol, no phone coverage. The whole thing is sickening. At least we know she is safe and in Canberra nearby. I didn't want to watch any fireworks last night.

And the conditions are going to be worse again on the weekend

I think the RFS Fire Control people are overwhelmed. Thank goodness for the yanks and Canadians and others who've flown in to help. The logistics of controlling so many units and people across 100 fire grounds, all of which can change in an instant, are mind boggling.

A mate who lives on Smiths Lake near Forster called this morning to tell me that yesterday they had 2 fires start nearby. Within a short time they water bombed the bejaysus out of the fires before they got out of control. This is clever management IMO.

Everyone wants more off season back burning but there's so much country and so little safe weather that I can't see it making much difference. Property owners complain bitterly and with good reason when burns go awry and the organisers cop the blame. The ground water hasn't been fully replenished from the Millennium drought.

The scientists predicted all this years ago and we didn't listen. This is looking like the new normal.

mick

[lovetoride]

I think the RFS Fire Control people are overwhelmed. Thank goodness for the yanks and Canadians and others who've flown in to help. The logistics of controlling so many units and people across 100 fire grounds, all of which can change in an instant, are mind boggling.

mick

Totally agree! My comment was no criticism of the efforts that are underway. I heard a policeman say this morning on ABC South East Radio that there was a lot of devastation from Broulee up through Malua Bay and into Lilli Pilli but they have no idea how bad. They are trying to get into the area today but there are trees down on the roads.

[Mr Brush]

ABC Radio are doing a fantastic job of keeping everyone informed, and the RFS are working wonders in very difficult conditions.....huge thanks to everyone involved.

While listening to the ABC this morning, the thought occurred that the two organisations doing the most to help under the current circumstances have both been subject to funding cutbacks by the bunch of clowns supposedly running the country.....

[Glider]

ABC Radio are doing a fantastic job of keeping everyone informed, and the RFS are working wonders in very difficult conditions.....huge thanks to everyone involved.

While listening to the ABC this morning, the thought occurred that the two organisations doing the most to help under the current circumstances have both been subject to funding cutbacks by the bunch of clowns supposedly running the country.....

After all, we have a new footy stadium to build in Sydney and a budget surplus to achieve in Canberra.

The federal Minister for Emergency Services, David Elliott, left for a European holiday AFTER Scomo was shamed into returning from Hawaii. He's now decided to return. You've gotta wonder...

mick

[AlexS]

Earlier in the fire season when there were fires south of Jervis Bay and roads were cut, the people of Tathra (I presume fishermen, but don't know for sure) took beautiful seafood meals to the firefighters there by boat. It was gratefully appreciated. Now they and towns in that area are in trouble. I hope they are out of trouble soon.

[rrich]

We have been having a series of very severe fire seasons. (Fire season such a stupid term.) Typically the season starts late summer through autumn. This year we lost a town of 26K or so. I think that there were 85 deaths.

To put things into perspective, there was an interview with someone that refused to evacuate due to the approaching fire. You and I sitting here are thinking "That is expletive stupid." But then the elderly gentleman said, "At my age what difference does it make? It is all that I have and I couldn't start over." I never saw another interview nor any indication that he saved his house.

My heart goes out to those who have lost anything in the fires. There are two bits of advice that I can give:
1 ~ The insurance company is not now nor ever will be your friend. They are an adversary and a rather nasty one.
2 ~ Do not accept an insurance company's offer of money for damages. Make the insurance company get a contractor to effect repairs. That way you'll have two parties to hold responsible and a lot less headaches.

[Glider]

My heart goes out to those who have lost anything in the fires. There are two bits of advice that I can give:
1 ~ The insurance company is not now nor ever will be your friend. They are an adversary and a rather nasty one.
2 ~ Do not accept an insurance company's offer of money for damages. Make the insurance company get a contractor to effect repairs. That way you'll have two parties to hold responsible and a lot less headaches.

I can't agree with point 2, Rich. Maybe it works in your parts but I wouldn't do it here. I want a builder of my choice and personal recommendation who has so much private work, he wouldn't need to take jobs from insurance companies. I did it once only, after a burglar had kicked a door in. I waited weeks before he turned up, did a very ordinary job and probably charged the insurance company an arm and a leg. I'll go with a bloke who will not only do good work but who relies on me to get paid.

mick :)

[rrich]

Mick,
You have a very valid point. It has been my experience that the insurance company only offers about half of what it would cost to effect repairs.
Here in Huntington Beach I know and trust about 4 contractors. One that I know is a general and he would go fight with the insurance company for the job for me because we are previous customers.

Here with vehicles, we get to choose the repair shop, per California state law. I've come to realize that all the shops bid very high for the job. Then the insurance company beats the repair shop down in price before authorizing the repair.

[Bushmiller]

Glider

Sorry to hear of your personal involvement in a fire catastrophe. I totally agree that until you have experienced the event it is almost inconceivable. We think of fire as an abstract: Not as a physical angry phenomena. It is difficult to conceive the conditions: The unrelentless heat with the flames fanned by wind, the restricted vision because of smoke (and difficulty breathing), the inability to communicate because the towers and lines have been burnt away and the abject fear of where the fire is actually going to come from.

Then after all this you may still be cut off without water, without food and without contact. Simply frightening.

The Sydney fireworks, I have to assume, were already bought and paid for and unlikely to cause a fire in the centre of Sydney, but I still view it's continuance as insensitive. I would like to think that many times the expenditure of the Sydney fireworks will be spent on "relief" on what is rapidly becoming the nightmare of the century so far. The extent of the fires, the early onset of the fires and the scarcity of water which which to fight the fires are all severe in the extreme. It is apparent Australia does not have the capacity to deal with fires on this scale. As the fire chiefs warned of this months back, the responsibility has to rest with the government on this one. I heard today on the radio that the young liberals have voiced their discontent on the matter. Somebody among the old liberals had better be listening and be prepared to act: With all speed.

I talked with a Forum member today who had only just escaped from the fires in southern NSW. As the roads were closed he was trapped for three days and spent last night sleeping in his vehicle as that was the only place he could go.

My sympathies to anybody caught up in these disasters.

Regards
Paul

[forrestmount]

In no way am I trying to suggest I understand what those affected by the fire are experiencing
I thought I should add my experience in case it help someone who may not feel in control of what is occurring.

We have a heritage home and as such pay extra for insurance for this home. We also own a few rental properties with standard policies.

We had an extreme hail storm that seriously damaged every property a few years ago, one house is in a trust and went though without any serious involvement from myself. The others are all insurance with one company, I managed all the repairs these properties using the insurance builders, yes they tried to cut corners but I told them they were to do the job properly using the same standard of materials originally used. I was told the insurance company would not approve of my requests, they wanted to use cheaper materials. I rang the insurance company and was told they must replace like with like.

In the end the first insurance builders were sacked and a replacement was supplied. The replacement builder had to redo most of the work the first company carried out. I would personally use the builder the insurance company recommends and check the work as they have to make it right. This is what you are paying for after all, btw the must warrant the work.

Of course a fire is a lot worse than any storm and I genuinely feel for those affected, but if anyone here is affected remember you insurance company is not doing you a flavour any more than you paying the premium is doing them a favour.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Glider]

In the end the first insurance builders were sacked and a replacement was supplied. The replacement builder had to redo most of the work the first company carried out. I would personally use the builder the insurance company recommends and check the work as they have to make it right. This is what you are paying for after all, btw the must warrant the work.

I rest my case. Exactly the problems to which I was referring. Personally I would rather use my builders who require minimal supervision because I know they are committed to good craftsmanship and each inspection reveals minimal defects because they are proud of their work. Warranties are easily arguable in a situation where the outcome is binary. Does it leak or not? etc. When it comes to good joinery, square and level or close enough, good mitre or not or leave it to the painter to fill and crack later, I would prefer not have to argue with some desk jockey at the insurance company. IMO there's a lot of merit in having a no d*ckheads policy. Having the government privatise tradies' training and shorten apprenticeship times has done nothing to improve outcomes for customers.

mick

[Bushmiller]

One of the first principles of insurance is "utmost good faith."

Regards
Paul

[AlexS]

Daughter & Granddaughter evacuated from Jervis Bay last night. Fortunately, their house is empty as they are in the process of moving to the north coast. Her husband is still there, if necessary will defend the house as long as it is safe then head for the beach. He is well equipped with camping equipment.

Hope Jim Davey will be OK, the road near him has been closed on & off.

[Glider]

Gotta hand it to NRMA who held he contents policy for the farmhouse. The full amount on the policy landed in the bank today. It took three days from the time the claim was made.

The farm insurance covering house and fences will take much longer I suspect, but no complaints about that.

mick :)

[aldav]

A big scare for my daughter and son-in-law last night. They now live in Tassie but still own a house on the escarpment between North Nowra and Kangaroo Valley. The Southerly change blew the fire front just to the West of them. Whew! :) Son-in-law spent a couple of days preparing the place late last week, fortunately it's a lot more defendable than most of the other places up their road. Just remains to be seen where the fire spreads next.

I know Beardy is in this general vicinity too. If I've got his location fairly right he should be ok at the moment too.

[Beardy]

A big scare for my daughter and son-in-law last night. They now live in Tassie but still own a house on the escarpment between North Nowra and Kangaroo Valley. The Southerly change blew the fire front just to the West of them. Whew! :) Son-in-law spent a couple of days preparing the place late last week, fortunately it's a lot more defendable than most of the other places up their road. Just remains to be seen where the fire spreads next.

I know Beardy is in this general vicinity too. If I've got his location fairly right he should be ok at the moment too.

Yes so far so good, I was concerned last night of potential spot fires coming off that southerly change but fortunately we didn’t receive any.
If you are in the fires path there isn’t much you can do, luck plays a big part in it

[elanjacobs]

This was Melbourne airport last night, I thought we were still in the clouds until I saw the runway lights underneath us. One of the flight attendants said she was surprised we even landed.

466649

[Chesand]

I live about 15 minutes north of the airport and it was certainly quite thick last night. It rolled in late afternoon.

[Bushmiller]

This is a pic by Matthew Abbott first shown on New year's Day.

466922

Apparently he took the pic and then went to bed instead of forwarding it immediately to media organisations. (His wife is an editor at Der Speigel.)

"It wasn’t that Abbott was lackadaisical about capturing a dramatic life-and-death situation the day before—it was just that there had been little international interest in what he’d done on the fires in the weeks previously.

This time, however, he got a message from a New York Times editor; if he could send a high-resolution version of the image, they could get it on the front page. Within hours, Abbott’s image (above) became his most impactful in his 14 years of photography. It was on the covers of several British newspapers and put on Instagram by Greta Thunberg and Leonardo DiCaprio."

I don't believe I am transgressing copyright as it has already appeared on social media and has gone viral (see, I have all the terms.) So I suppose that you have all already seen it and I will be way back in the queue for copyright infringement. Absolutely mind blowing and captures both the emotion and tragedy at one hit.

Regards
Paul
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[Glider]

Just a quick update, folks. It's now been 35 days since SWMBO's 1867 family farm house was destroyed in the Bodalla fire. Her sister lived on the property. Remember the $1000 supposedly handed out to tide the victims over? Well, she hasn't seen a red cent of it yet. Some of the agencies with whom she has tried to deal are asking for utilities bills to prove residency! So she has to apply to the utilities companies to obtain copies. Never mind that the Eurobodalla Council could easily confirm her residency, her drivers licence shows her address and anything else she had in her wallet on New Years Day could identify her.

We understand that agencies have to be sure about who they're handing out money to, but there are >500 families in and around Bega who are now homeless and the situation is critical. If anybody saw Andrew Constance on Q&A last night, he's one of the good ones. And if Shane Fitzsimmons doesn't get an AC in June, then he bloody well should have.

There's something like $50 million in donations available. At least the insurance companies are on the job.

mick