Learning to drive

[Glider]

For a few years now, learner drivers in NSW are required to log 120 hours supervised practice before they can be tested for a P1 licence. That must be a nightmare for parents with twins (or worse). I'm not aware of any manual which prepares a licensed driver to teach or supervise a learner to drive other than professional driving instructor training. Anyone can do it and there's plenty of dud drivers around.

I wonder if this has resulted in fewer accidents and injuries. I still see plenty of maddies driving on P plates and yesterday I was passed by an L plater on the 110 kph freeway.

mick

[elanjacobs]

Kids will do what they want, it could be 1000 hours and they'll still speed once they get their licence. The L plater speeding is more concerning, but, unless you mandate that all the hours are done with an instructor, there's not much to do about it.

The numbers do seem to indicate that the number of crashes has dropped since the system was introduced Australian road deaths drop by a quarter since 2004, young drivers' deaths halve - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-06/australian-road-deaths-drop-by-about-a-quarter/5506740) The road toll – trends and possible solutions - Western Alliance (https://www.westernalliance.org.au/2018/04/the-road-toll-trends-and-possible-solutions)

[BobL]

It's very difficult to determine direct causes of changes in crash related statistics.

On one side there are things like better/safer vehicles, better health care facilities, improved roads, harsher penalties for traffic infringements and longer driver trainee requirements
One the other side there are more people and cars per km than ever before and some might say more idiots but I honestly don't think that has changed. Given that proportional fewer younger people are getting their licences as soon as they reach driving age.

Even if a log book requiring X hours of driving saves just a few lives a year I'm sure the families of those concerned are very grateful for it.

Here's how I got my light rigid (bus) licence in 1976. I was teaching in the country and was told that in 4 weeks I had drive a bus load of students to a campsite some 70km away but I had no bus licence. A week before we were due to go I found some "L plates" and another teacher with a bus licence took me for a half hour practice with the school bus. It was a full size 60+ seater bus with dubious synchro on first and second gears and a slipping clutch, so nothing like the usual Toyota Coaster type buses which are a doddle to drive.

The day before my departure, after school at 3:30pm I drove the school bus from the school to the cop shop and by the time one of the cops was ready to take me for my test it was 3:50pm. We got into the bus and the cop looked at his watch and said "Crikey, I knock off at 4pm, QUICK, drive around the block" and that was it. 2 minutes later we were back in the station and he was giving me a temporary licence. The next day with crunching gears and 60 odd screaming kids in the bus - and off we went.

[Chesand]

I believe that it should be compulsory that an Advanced Driving Course be done either before or immediately after getting their licence.

I sent my three off just after getting their licence and they all said it was one of the best things they did and it certainly saved my son on one occasion when an idiot was coming at him on a mountain road. He had the good sense to put the car into the hill side rather than going over the other side. The car was damaged but no injuries.

[rustynail]

I have two kids , both had the dubious pleasure of my instruction. The son was no problem but my daughter was not so fortunate. To help her overcome her difficulties (probably her father) we employed the services of a competent driving instructor to complete her training, a finishing school if you like. The difference this made between the two kids was amazing. The daughter ended up a much better driver than her brother who has since done an advanced driving course to keep up with his little sister.
Driving instruction is not for the faint hearted or the ill tempered.

[crowie]

G'Day Mike,
When I was doing Crash Survivor Talks for the RYDA Program the Police told me the statistics of the 17-26 year old drivers.
They held 17% of the licenses and 26% of the fatalities.
I put it down to "COTTON WOOLING" from age 3 - 18yrs; then out from under supervision of parents & teachers, adding mobile phones, drugs, alcohol, peer pressure, a 2t killing machine under there right foot along with no understanding of accountability, consequences or responsibility.
The collision I was in took 3seconds of inattention by a young inexperienced driver who was obeying all the road rules except in the 3seconds to adjust his heater whilst coming up to a corner crossed to the other side of the road were I just happened to be in the right place at the right time.
The rest is history and I'm please to be able to share the story, life is good.
Cheers, Peter.

[Glider]

Lots of great points so far. I confess to fanging around when I was a kid in cars with drum brakes all around, rear leaf spring and front swinging arm suspension and tyres which were about 150 mm wide, if that. Thank goodness for safe modern cars.

I insisted that all mine learn of a manual. First lessons were in a paddock in a 4x4 in low range, almost impossible to stall. I stressed two principles. Firstly never trust another car's indicator and secondly in a panic stop, never forget you can steer as well as brake.

A mandatory advanced driving course would be a good start plus at least six professional driving lessons once the person can start, steer and stop. However you can get a restricted private pilot's licence in 30 hrs and unrestricted fly anywhere licence after 50 hours of professional instruction. 120 hours sounds like 10 hrs practice repeated 12 times. The problem with those sorts of thought bubble policies is that no one will reduce the time for fear of being blamed for a death or injury which might have happened anyway.

mick

[Chris Parks]

My favorite rant subject...

Every driver thinks every other driver is a dill and they themselves are perfect.

120 hours just allows every bad habit the instructor has to be drilled into the student more and more.

Advanced driving courses are good (I used to teach them) but if there is no opportunity to practise the skills then they are soon lost.

[rrich]

I believe that we had the 50 hour requirement. We have two that we taught to drive. Of the two boys:

The oldest, 50 YO this year, amazes me that he is still alive. He is also the one that at about age 18 or 19 told me that he was smarter than me. I have ridden with him and there are times when I've just closed my eyes. He has a Porsche and Audi. I would not get into either if he is driving. Before he graduated from college he totaled two cars and had two accidents in one day in the high school parking lot. After listening to his description of the accidents he went ballistic when I told him that it was his impatience that caused the accidents. He was really angry when I told him that he wasn't driving my cars any more.

SWMBO said that he needed a driving course. When he objected, SWMBO said your dad will go with you. In the course we were on a skid pad and I was out there having a good time basically steering with my foot when he said, "Gee dad, you're good at this." Later we're on an obstacle course that required parallel parking several times. About the third time I'm parallel parking, in in one move, out in one move, he says again, "Gee dad you're good at parking."

He was going off to college and just geography between home, work and school I had to buy him a car. (This gets good.) I went looking and found a diesel Ford Escort, a couple of model years down but new, that was fairly well loaded with amenities. It was also a bigger dog than the Escorts of the rental car fleets. It was one of those vehicles that couldn't get out of its own way. AND because the dealer couldn't sell it, the price was exceptionally reasonable. I think that the dealer would have taken even less for the car. I show it to my son. His words, "You know nothing about what cars a kid wants. I don't see why you can't lease me a Toyota Celica Supra." I told him that, "I'm investing money in you, a car and I want you to come home from college alive and not in a box." He responded with "I don't want your dumb old car." Me? Just laughing and "OK."

At the time he was working for Disneyland, as a ride operator, and a small construction company as, for lack of better words, as a CFO. Reading between the lines I believe he had a conversation with his boss about leasing him a car. I gather that his boss explained the facts of life to my son. About a week later my son asked me to step out onto the patio because he needed to talk. He was obviously 'Eating Crow'. He told me that he "would like to accept my most generous offer" to buy him a car. Unfortunately the diesel Escort was gone. Although a Toyota dealer had a couple of dog Tercel with the smallest possible engine and automatic transmission and A/C at absurd pricing. I bought one and he drove it with a boom box in the back seat for a radio. He drove it for about 2 years until it was totaled but he didn't get the blame for the crash. I loaned him the money to cover what the insurance on the Tercel was going to pay but the payments on his new Acura were all his. When the insurance check came in, I got paid.

The other son is very much subdued in his driving. He got a hand me down '80 Datsun 310 as his first car. Not a bad car but it would eat head gaskets. When he had it at school in Ft. Collins, Colorado it ate the third or fourth head gasket. Having to get that fixed at the dealer over the phone was a chore. About that time I had a new F-250 7.3L Diesel on order. So I gave him the old '86 F-250 6.9L diesel when the new truck came in.

And this told me that my philosophy about giving the kids a dog vehicle when they are first driving. He was home and delivering Pizza for Dominos driving the F-250. He had been delivering in and around the high school during the mid to late afternoon. He came into the house and just plops down in a chair. SWMBO is concerned until he says, "EVERY kid needs to drive a diesel pickup for a couple of years before they get a car. It will teach them patience."

[rrich]

There is one other thing about teaching kids to drive.

If you can, teach them how to drive in a car with a standard transmission! (Stick shift, i.e. with a clutch) The longer that they drive with a clutch, the more they become one with a car. They get the feel for what a car does and doesn't do.

Later in life, they won't go to someone and say "Rich, My temperature warning light is on. Would you follow me home." I dug a 2L Coke bottle out of the trash and put water in the radiator. Then I asked when you first start it, do clouds of white smoke come out?" The answer was no so probably not a head gasket problem. I gave her instructions to have the radiator flushed and fluid changed. Her comment was, "You have to do that?"

I had never ridden with her, so I don't know if she actually drove a car or just aimed it.

The really sad part was a couple of days later, her husband called me at work. He thanked me profusely for "fixing" her car. All I could say was, "Your welcome." while shaking my head.

[Handyjack]

My son learnt to drive a Toyota Corolla, mine since new, one year older than him. Once he got his licence at 18 he then drove it for the next 6 years. Had one minor bingle in the first 12 months that we never repaired.

Daughter got her learners at 17 and did the required 120 hours in 12 months. I bought her a Mazda 2 manual so she could learn a manual. She had professional lessons regularly and drove both my auto wagon and her Mazda 2 manual for practice. After one long drive, just before home, she hit the bluestone kerb in a bend in our street. Put holes in the side of both passenger side tyres. Dad not happy. :(. She got her manual licence first go at 18. Four weeks later she is driving to her first day at college, hits a kerb and puts a hole in the side of a tyre. I had tried to teach her how to change a tyre, but she called road side service. Dad not happy. :((. Over the next four years she side scraped a parked car and on another occasion hit the kerb and damaged another tyre. :(:((. Unfortunately on the weekend someone ran into the back of the Mazda 2, (not her fault) and there is a good chance it will be written off. Dad not happy again. :o:?:no:. Fortunately no real physical injuries.

[elanjacobs]

Just goes to show that you can't teach spatial awareness... It bugs me no end when I'm stuck 2 cars behind a car turning right and there's enough space for a truck to go around on the left but the driver in front just has no idea how big their car is, so all 5 people behind have to wait :doh:

The other thing that should be mandatory for learners is time in a small car; you feel quite vulnerable sitting next to a 4wd whose wing mirrors are higher than your roof or a truck whose wheels are at eye level. The downside is that I'm pretty bad at reading traffic and planning my lane changes because, for the last 8 years, I physically haven't been able to see past the car in front of me.

[rrich]

Fortunately no real physical injuries.
Handyjack,

Change the gender and car brands and it sounds like my son. We need to meet up and flavor some ice cubes together. :U

[Glider]

Just goes to show that you can't teach spatial awareness...
The downside is that I'm pretty bad at reading traffic and planning my lane changes because, for the last 8 years, I physically haven't been able to see past the car in front of me.

Is it spatial awareness? Or timidity? Parking certainly requires spatial. I know we've all seen incredible ineptitude in this department which I'm sure indicates that the person never learned the simple formula from a pro. I suspect it might be either situational awareness or sheer thoughtlessness; like people who wait for a red light in the middle lane and then indicate a turn when the light changes to green. I suppose nobody's ever told them other than with rude hand gestures.

The thing that I notice often on the road is drivers whose focus of vision is 50 metres in front of the car. You see them accelerating towards a red light or changing into a lane blocked by parked cars and before changing their mind. My kids were always taught to look out as far as you can see including the tangent when cornering. When taught to land a plane, you're told to look at the very end of the runway. This smoothes out the pilot's control inputs and produces a nice two or three point landing. The same applies in cars. I still don't think that tens of hours of practice will compensate for poor instruction.

I can't figure out why cars and utes have to be so big too, Elan. 10-15 years ago on a canoe trip into the Minnesota Boundary Waters I was staggered by the chest high bonnet (hood) of an American mate's ute. Now we have them in Oz! My old farm ute has a waist high front and is still able to take a tonne of gravel or a full 1200x2400 sheet of ply. Who needs a tank?

mick :)

[rrich]

" learners is time in a small car;"

We had just bought my SWMBO a Ford Explorer, MY 2002. We were going to a new restaurant in a shopping center. As it was a new car SWMBO says, "Park way out there so no one will park next to us." So I park and before we get out a Jacked Up Ford Excursion parks next to us taking up half the adjacent space and ¾ of the space adjacent to that space. Sitting in the Explorer and at normal eye level I can look under the chassis of the Excursion. I'm sitting there giggling and the driver drags a small step ladder from the back seat and uses that to climb down from the excursion. Once out, he puts the step ladder back in the Excursion and walks away. SWMBO who almost never even uses words like H*** or D*** says "I've never seen anything so effing stupid in my life." In our 54 years of marriage, that was the only time I ever heard her use the "EFF" word.

[rrich]

Mick,
You are one that probably has their brake pads / shoes replaced every 125,000 Km.

[Mr Brush]

Just goes to show that you can't teach spatial awareness... It bugs me no end when I'm stuck 2 cars behind a car turning right and there's enough space for a truck to go around on the left but the driver in front just has no idea how big their car is, so all 5 people behind have to wait :doh:

Couldn't agree more. However, it doesn't help that most people turning right just stop bang slap in the middle of their lane, indicator on, with no attempt to position themselves as far to the right of their lane as possible. If they did this, even the hopeless drivers who need a space twice the width of their car should be able to pass on the left and avoid blocking the entire street. Do they still teach this kind of "common sense"?? My other pet peeve in our area (often foggy), is people driving a road-coloured car in pea soup fog with no lights on at all......presumably they don't teach drivers these days that lights are for TWO equally important things, (1) to see where you're going, and (2) to help others see you. Likewise the function of a slip road - to allow vehicles to get up to the speed of cars on the road they are joining (e.g. 110km/h freeway), and thereby merge smoothly. Try explaining that to the idiots who trundle down the slip road at 70km/h, almost come to a stop, indicate, then try to merge in front of a semi- doing 110km/h. <rant off>.

[Chris Parks]

My pet peeves

People using an entry ramp and trying to merge at half the traffic speed instead of getting to the speed limit on the ramp and then merging. They are causing a huge potential accident and I was nearly involved in one a few years ago while familiarising a driver with a new truck we were bringing into the fleet and I subsequently refused to get into a truck with him driving.

I strike this one all the time, more annoying than anything else. I use cruise control every time I drive out of town, I gradually catch a car and pull out to overtake with no change of speed on my part and the car I am overtaking gradually increases speed, I drop back into the lane behind that car and it slows down, rinse and repeat but the second time I just floor the throttle, get past, resume my set speed and the overtaken car slows down to the speed he was originally doing. Can someone explain in this behaviour in small words so I can understand it because I have not got a clue why it happens.

[crowie]

Just a silly thought.
Maybe before people are allow to have a car driving license, they should first have to gain a heavy vehicle licence then progress to a motorcycle licence then sit for a car licence.
Drivers might be a little more curious and traffic aware??

[Chesand]

My pet peeves

I strike this one all the time, more annoying than anything else. I use cruise control every time I drive out of town, I gradually catch a car and pull out to overtake with no change of speed on my part and the car I am overtaking gradually increases speed, I drop back into the lane behind that car and it slows down, rinse and repeat but the second time I just floor the throttle, get past, resume my set speed and the overtaken car slows down to the speed he was originally doing. Can someone explain in this behaviour in small words so I can understand it because I have not got a clue why it happens.

I use cruise control as you do and the actions you describe annoy the hell out of me as well.

[elanjacobs]

My other pet peeve in our area (often foggy), is people driving a road-coloured car in pea soup fog with no lights on at all<rant off="">
My pet peeve is the opposite: people with their foggies on in clear weather.

The front ones aren't so annoying (aside from making people look like idiots), but having the rears on is, IMO, quite a hazard; they're at least as bright as, if not brighter than, brake lights, so my ability to see everything else in the dark gets affected by having to stare at them and it's harder to tell when they actually are braking.

It's also illegal (and carries a fine from $50 to over $200, depending on what state), but no one cares about that. I reckon if the cops did a fog light blitz they'd fill the budget gap in a month.</rant>

[smidsy]

I've been on the road 32 years, the system in WA back then was you that could drive with an instructor at 16 & 9 months and drive with anyone who'd had a license 4 years once you turned 17.
I had 12 lessons with an instructor, got my car license on my 17th birthday and my semi license about 20 or 21 after about six lessons.
In 2011 in Queensland I got my bike license after one 1 hour lesson and the five hour Qride instructor assessment - it was my first time on a geared bike in 25 years and the first time I'd ever been legally on a bike on the road.
All my tests I thought were pathetically easy, when I mentioned this to the Qride instructor he told me that they deliberately make the test easy because they'd rather have bad licensed drivers than bad unlicensed drivers.

WE NEED TO MAKE DRIVING TESTS HARDER!
We spend billions of dollars educating and raising our children and then let them die on the roads through pathetically inadaquate driver training.
My sister migrated to Norway and my oldest neice is currently doing her driver training - over there it takes two years to get your license, you have to do a senior first aid course and you have to do a course teaching you how to deal with an accident while waiting for the cops and ambo's.

Maybe we should go the US way and make driver training part of the education curriculem???
But we have to do something to stop our children dying on the roads.

[Chris Parks]

You can make them as hard as you like but if the skills learned during that period are not practised then they are lost very quickly. If you learned to control a spin in a car at aged 17 and did not encounter a need for that skill until age 35 you would not have a hope in hell of remembering what to do. Perhaps with modern simulators there is a potential to educate drivers as pilots are periodically retrained but no one has begun that yet to my knowledge.

[Glider]

Mick, you are one that probably has their brake pads / shoes replaced every 125,000 Km.

Spot on, Rich! I've owned the ute for 12 years, done 110,000 kms in it and never needed new pads although doing most of the miles on long trips is very easy on the anchors especially when you drive a stick.

mick

[Glider]

WE NEED TO MAKE DRIVING TESTS HARDER!

But we have to do something to stop our children dying on the roads.

Sadly, it's not going to happen. Young drivers will continue to come unstuck because their brains are not fully developed. Females' brains are fully mature at around 23 and males' around 25. Kids should ace any practical driving test because their senses are acute and reflexes razor sharp. The occasional mad P platers I see on the road are very skilled but seriously dangerous. They make assumptions about roads and other drivers which are mostly correct but not always. That's when the damage happens. It's all about attitude.

When my children were in their mid to late teens we heard about a fatal accident nearby in our neighbourhood. When they wanted to go and see it, I forbade it. After a minute or so I changed my mind and gave permission. I reckoned it would do them good to see the results first hand and up close. It did and none of them has ever taken road safety lightly. It transpired that the fatality happened to be the son of a close friend from university days but not someone known to my children. At least some good came from this boy's tragedy.

mick

[rrich]

I have driven mostly all over the US. There are regional differences in driving styles. I won't get into that but there is something that I have noticed universally here in the US. I suspect that it is true there also.

There are 4 types of drivers, especially at peak traffic times.

Users - The bloke that will use all of the space in front of the car, especially as traffic slows.

Keepers - They were told in driver education (year 10 and 11) that they must keep space of X car lengths per every Y KPH.

Takers - They will take any space in a lane if they believe that it will gain them a millisecond. These are the worst for traffic as their car takes about the space of five cars on the road. One for the taker, one to two in front of the taker so they can speed up, one or two so that they can slip into the adjacent lane and two behind the car that they are cutting off for braking space.

Star Gazers - Also Aimers. They have no clue as to where they are, what the common courtesy rules are, what lane they are in or what exit they are supposed to get off at. These are the type that when stopped at a traffic light you want to walk up and knock on the window asking "What are you aiming at?" And regardless of the rude response your answer is, "I would just rather be somewhere else other than where you are aiming."

[AlexS]

Pretty much true here too, Rich. I must say though, that driving in peak hour LA freeway traffic wasn't anywhere near as bad as I thought it would be. Firstly, the signposting is excellent, especially when combined with GPS. I decided to try and drive like the locals - close to the car in front, and when you want to change lanes, just put the indicator on and go. It works, they will let you in.

[Boringgeoff]

Alex, indicator on and go is what I experienced in Sydney the first time I drove there in 1981. On our way back from NZ hired a car at Sydney airport to visit friends up in the Snowys. Prior to going a friend asked had I ever driven in Syd town, my answer NO he replied they're maniacs, they'll kill ya! Understandably I was nervous when we picked up the car and headed out but watching the traffic I decided that they indicated then moved. I tried it and it worked.... phew the relief. A week later back in Perth driving down a busy road I decided to do some Sydney lane changing, indicate, move, one fluid action.........you should have heard the horns blaring and the fist waving etc. Welcome home.
Cheers,
Geoff.

[KBs PensNmore]

I'd like to see young drivers stay on their P's till the age of 23, then do a driving test again with an assessor. By that time they will have instilled any of their bad habits, that hopefully the assessor will pick and make them do their licence again.
They tend to think that a P isn't a PRIVILAGE but a right to have.
I went for a drive with someone to deliver a trailer to Bordertown about 200kms away.
People were driving along at about 105, we have a 110 limit in SA, and we would overtake them. We were sitting on the limit, quickly coming up in the distance was a van doing about 80kph, and had to slow down as we were in a no passing section and had to wait till a passing lane was available to pass him. There was a B Double behind us, dunno how he got on, though I think I did hear his airhorns!!! Some of the cars were doing 100, till you went to overtake them, then they'd lift the speed to 110, this happened on several occasions. Fortunately we were in a 6.7 Litre Ford F250 which very quickly overtook them, and they'd slow back down to what ever they were comfortable at.
Is it arrogance that causes people to do such stupid things???
Kryn

[Chris Parks]

Alex, indicator on and go is what I experienced in Sydney the first time I drove there in 1981. On our way back from NZ hired a car at Sydney airport to visit friends up in the Snowys. Prior to going a friend asked had I ever driven in Syd town, my answer NO he replied they're maniacs, they'll kill ya! Understandably I was nervous when we picked up the car and headed out but watching the traffic I decided that they indicated then moved. I tried it and it worked.... phew the relief. A week later back in Perth driving down a busy road I decided to do some Sydney lane changing, indicate, move, one fluid action.........you should have heard the horns blaring and the fist waving etc. Welcome home.
Cheers,
Geoff.

Everyone gets used to their region or city and habits grow within that area. I went to live in Melbourne from Sydney and thought the locals were on a suicide mission until I got used to it.

[Chris Parks]

I'd like to see young drivers stay on their P's till the age of 23, then do a driving test again with an assessor. By that time they will have instilled any of their bad habits, that hopefully the assessor will pick and make them do their licence again.

Kryn

What would that have achieved in your case? it would have done zip for me but I was one of the last drivers in NSW to avoid going on P's by about three months.

[elanjacobs]

Some of the cars were doing 100, till you went to overtake them, then they'd lift the speed to 110, this happened on several occasions. Fortunately we were in a 6.7 Litre Ford F250 which very quickly overtook them, and they'd slow back down to what ever they were comfortable at.
Is it arrogance that causes people to do such stupid things???
Kryn
No idea why people do it, but I just floor it and go around (also fortunate to have a car with no problem overtaking). I figure it's safer to do 130 for a few seconds than be anywhere near them.

As for big rigs dealing with people like that (more so with "brake checking"), I firmly believe that they shouldn't have to take any extra evasive action; just clean them up and deal with the result after stopping safely. Yes, I know that's probably not going to be popular, but I have no time for people who intentionally make the road more dangerous than it already is.

I also seem to remember that it's illegal to drive more than 20 under the limit on a freeway (at least in Vic), but it's a long time since I sat my test and that might have changed.

[Chris Parks]

I used to drive trucks between Eden and Wollongong for a living and had an experience one night that I nearly called the police for. I caught a car going in the same direction doing well under the speed limit so standard procedure was to back off and knowing the road I would then pick up speed just as the car entered the next dual lane passing opportunity, this clown then proceeded to speed up to prevent me passing then slow down when he exited the passing section and proceeded to do this for about an hour. I was about to ring the police when he turned off, I know some drivers I was working with who would have punted him off the road and my inner rage was fairly high but driving trucks does teach patience.

[AlexS]

Is it arrogance that causes people to do such stupid things???Dunno what causes it, but it happens far too often, as a couple of other posters have pointed out.
The other ones who pee me off are those who don't understand "Keep left unless overtaking". They would learn its meaning if they drove in the UK for a couple of days.

[rrich]

Just a silly thought.
Maybe before people are allow to have a car driving license, they should first have to gain a heavy vehicle licence then progress to a motorcycle licence then sit for a car licence.
Drivers might be a little more curious and traffic aware??

Having ridden a bike in the farm country of central Ohio I would say that half of the people that graduate from heavy vehicle to motorcycle would never get a car licence. The reason is that the post office doesn't deliver to cemeteries.

I'm on a deserted road with a cross road in Ohio. My road is protected by STOP signs at the cross road. I've probably had the bike for less than a month. It is winter and the fields are fallow. I have my headlight on the motorcycle on. Visibility is about 1.6 Km in any direction. I am approaching the intersection where the cross traffic has a STOP sign. A vehicle is also approaching the STOP sign on my right. They just pull out in front of me. I brake and avoid killing myself. The driver of the car looks at me with a glare that says, "What are you doing on my road." I'm alive and that was the best education I've ever had, "On a bike, you are invisible! Ride like it."

There were so many incidents just like that in Ohio, Pennsylvania and Los Angeles that I gave up riding. When going to renew my driver license in Los Angeles I was asked if I wanted to renew the Class M also. (Motorcycle endorsement) The clerk at the DMV said that was good because a measurable percent of people with their first class M endorsement don't even renew their driver license. I didn't ask why but I assumed it was because the post office doesn't deliver to cemeteries.

And it all goes against the age old rhetorical question, "Why do people who ride motorcycles have bugs in their teeth?"

[THE BARON]

[QUOTE=smidsy;2164300]
In 2011 in Queensland I got my bike license after one 1 hour lesson and the five hour Qride instructor assessment - it was my first time on a geared bike in 25 years and the first time I'd ever been legally on a bike on the road.
All my tests I thought were pathetically easy, when I mentioned this to the Qride instructor he told me that they deliberately make the test easy because they'd rather have bad licensed drivers than bad unlicensed drivers.


About this same time I went through Qride to upgrade my 250 licence to Open after 30 or so years of occasional law breaking. "Yeah", everyone said, "it's easy as, no one ever fails". Now maybe I took that as a challenge or more likely I am just rubbish because I went very close to leaving empty handed. Now I had no trouble riding out to the Big Pineapple car park where all the set testing would take place but it went downhill very rapidly, in fact it started as we pulled up. I put my right foot down as I came to a stop which it appears is very wrong and so in front of the other contestants I was given a serve and made to do it again, which I managed to do correctly. Then I shut down the engine with the kill switch before turning off the ignition which also was apparently a hanging offence. Next up was a test of low speed bike control, where, as punishment for the kill switch thing, I had to go first.

The instruction was "ride as slowly as you can up to the Witch's hat". So adopting my best Sammy Miller trials stance I crawled forward slipping the clutch and even stopping still for a bit thinking "this will impress him". And did it impress him? No it did not! Okay, I think that had something to do with him not wanting to replace the clutch which I was giving a seriously hard time but he made it quite clear I should just ride up to the marker at a somewhat faster pace. And then things went really bad. The emergency braking test! I made sure I went near last so I didn't get it wrong and look like a goose again. This plan did not work at all. First attempt I did what everyone else did, which I thought was not much, except when he dropped his arm I obviously hit the brakes a bit harder because where they stopped beside him, I was ten metres short of where he was standing. To my horror, he shook his head and told me to do it again but this time do it properly. Attempt two had me giving the bike everything on the run up and then stopping as cleanly as I could manage and even with the extra speed I pulled up ten metres short of where everyone else had. This earned another head shake and the words" I'll give you one more chance".

Attempt three I came out of the bottom corner like Casey Stoner and flat shifted right up to the arm drop where I hit both brakes as hard as I dared. The front suspension dived full length, the front tire was chirping and squirming around and the back brake was chattering on the point of lock up but I kept it upright and again stopped short of him. He motioned me to ride over, where he explained that this was a test and he is not allowed to instruct but the other riders may be able to help out. Looking up revealed them all laughing and holding up their right hands and what appeared to be waving with their fingers. I sat there totally stumped for a bit then the "light bulb moment". So off I went and proceeded to perform the worst attempt by anyone all day, when I went for the front brake I managed to jam the throttle on, it was not pretty, but he was satisfied and everyone else was almost on the ground laughing. The rest of the day he pretty much made sure he never looked at what I was doing, I think it made his life easier. And yes he did pass me.

Now what crime was I committing that caused all that? I,m glad you asked. I use two fingers on the front brake and have done for most of my riding life and although it may have changed, at that time it was a fail under Transport Dept rules. Some of my bikes ran two finger brake levers which to my surprise were probably illegal not that I would care. I will bet if I ever found one of the imbeciles who make rules like that, they would not be able to give a valid reason for it but would just smugly say that it doesn't matter because that's the rule and if you don't like it you should get it changed. When the snot gobblers are running the world don't expect good ideas to be adopted. The reason I use two finger braking is because of a lifetime of riding dirt bikes, it allows you to get back on the throttle before you even release the front brake. Yeah, I know, I'm too old for that sort of thing but twenty minutes on a motocross track beats the hell out of a brisk morning walk for aerobic exercise and adrenaline is still the best drug of all except crashing hurts for longer.

[Glider]

Dunno what causes it, but it happens far too often, as a couple of other posters have pointed out.
The other ones who pee me off are those who don't understand "Keep left unless overtaking". They would learn its meaning if they drove in the UK for a couple of days.

I now use a technique I learned on the autobahns in Germany which works 90% of the time. If you want someone to move over, sit behind at a safe distance and turn on your indicator. Sometimes it takes a while and may need a flash of the lights to get their attention. It's polite, non-aggressive and very effective.

mick

[Chesand]

The other ones who pee me off are those who don't understand "Keep left unless overtaking". They would learn its meaning if they drove in the UK for a couple of days.

Having driven in the UK a few times, I agree.