Cheap Grandfather Clock, Darken Wood & Wooden Veneer

[EagerBeaver71]

Hi Guys,

I just picked up a Grandfather clock for $50 and want to darken the wood & make it look more antique. I'm not sure what sort of wood it is and unsure of the best way to go about darkening the wood. Here are the photo's of the clock without the doors on:
464718464719464720464721464722

In one of the photo's the verneer needs sticking back and gives an idea of how thin it is. I would like to either stain/ stain varnish to
a finish the same/similar to this:
464724
I dont want to screw this up because I really like the clock so I need help in choosing what products I should buy and process.

Cheers, Sam

[EagerBeaver71]

Does anyone know what type of wood it is or if I should sand it back and use a sanding sealer?

[Chief Tiff]

It looks like mahogany to me from the photos. Does it have any makers marks or similar on it anywhere? To be frank it doesn’t look that high end a clock; the sides look like veneered ply and the back appears to have been stapled on. Saying that, $50 is a bargain if it is a genuine mechanical movement.

As for trying to make it darker, the only way you could do that would be to spray the whole thing with a darker tinted varnish. I really advise against trying to sand it back, it is full of sharp edges and corners that will resist getting an even all over finish. Plus the veneer is less than a millimeter thick, it be nothing to accidentally sand through it.

[auscab]

Its a blonde wood hardwood. Looks a bit like Beech as in Euro Beech or a bit like Maple , the US type ? , I cant spot any Medullary rays though for Beech, possibly because there's no 1/4 cut visible but that'd be my first rough guess. If its not beech Its a wood Ive seen before in mod stuff which I don't know the name of . The Dark Back picture has a Mahogany type grain look to it .

Colouring over the top is one way . A bit cheap and nasty . Ive done stuff like that where I heavily coloured and aged a light piece that wouldn't sell . Made it look like a dark crusty shiny cow pat and it sold a week after that ! :). Basically bagged it over with water based colours sprayed it down with shellac and set fire to it a few times . Put it out and made it shiny .
Test edit , forum edits out ( )

The good way is strip back to wood , lightly sand , re stain seal and polish to the colour you like . You need to pick a stain you like and know how to seal and polish If you want the hand polish look . Which is a fine look . If you go spraying then you will get the sprayed look . Skillful finishers good at spraying get a pretty good looking job of it . Skillful hand polishers get a better finish which is why the method never died off . Skillful hand polished with skillful aged finishing is another thing again .
What gives a good look is at the start, staining lighter than you may actually want at the end, and adding colours and effects on the way up within the layers to end up where you want with an un noticeable distinctive variation in the finish on the way through . One great way of getting this is trying your best then stripping it back by rubbing off the lot with Metho . leave some there and start again .

[EagerBeaver71]

The good way is strip back to wood , lightly sand , re stain seal and polish to the colour you like . You need to pick a stain you like and know how to seal and polish If you want the hand polish look . Which is a fine look . If you go spraying then you will get the sprayed look . Skillful finishers good at spraying get a pretty good looking job of it . What gives a good look is at the start, staining lighter than you may actually want at the end, and adding colours and effects on the way up within the layers to end up where you want with an un noticeable distinctive variation in the finish on the way through . One great way of getting this is trying your best then stripping it back by rubbing off the lot with Metho . leave some there and start again .

What varnish/paint stripper should I use?, should I use paper towls or wire wool to wipe off the stripper?.

As Stated by the previous poster Cheif Tiff, the veneer is less than a millimeter thick, is it still ok to use paint/varnish stripper on it?.

Should I use a wood conditioner/primer to get an even stain finish?, if so which one would you or others recommend?

[auscab]

What varnish/paint stripper should I use?, should I use paper towls or wire wool to wipe off the stripper?.

You could pay to have it dipped at Colorex in Huntingdale Colorex Paint Strippers-Home (http://www.colorex.com.au/). That makes a messy long job quick. Otherwise buy and test a stripper from Bunnings ?
I cant recommend what I use . Its lethal stuff that came from Wortheim I think . My brother gave me a few liters off his last buy .


As Stated by the previous poster Cheif Tiff, the veneer is less than a millimeter thick, is it still ok to use paint/varnish stripper on it?. Yes its ok with most strippers . Dont use caustic soda though . Its a bit to rough on timbers left soaking in the stuff.


Should I use a wood conditioner/primer to get an even stain finish?, if so which one would you or others recommend?

No . Depends on how it takes stain in the first place . And that looks like it will be OK with a guess. A hard close grained wood like that looks to be could be the opposite and you may need it to be taking the stain better than it can . Any sealer holds this back and is conditioning or priming to slow down uptake and give an even look .

[EagerBeaver71]

I used some Polystrippa Paint Stripper from Bunnings on the side panel, it seems to work ok but is leaving what looks like bits of stain on the wood, sould I be concerned with that?

[auscab]

sould I be concerned with that?

Wet it again and scrub it till its clean all over the whole section then wash the final wet coat off with a thinner solution of either water or metho before the stripper dries wipe that off and have extra dry rags to buff it dry before it dries by itself .

[EagerBeaver71]

Wet it again and scrub it till its clean all over the whole section then wash the final wet coat off with a thinner solution of either water or metho before the stripper dries wipe that off and have extra dry rags to buff it dry before it dries by itself .

Should I use wire wool to scrub it off?.

[EagerBeaver71]

So I decided to try stripping the sides which are veneered, is this how far I am supposed to strip it?, too much or not enough?. I will be tackling the ornamental top next which has lots of corners and intricate bits, I would appreciate any advice in going about this.

464856464855464854

Didn't get as much done as I hoped today because I got rained off. Hail actually!.

[auscab]

I wouldn't touch the harder shaped bits until you know your doing the flat bits right . a whole job not right is one your going to have to do twice .
You have to test it as your stripping .

I use steel wool , always have . it can cause not wanted effects like iron oxide staining or fine steel particles in open grain . I think you'll be right with that though.

You can feel when the wool stops sliding about on Jam like stuff made up of finish and stripper . You can scratch the jam and look at it when its almost done and when its right to educate yourself .I scratch with a stick or flat screw driver or fingernail . depends how deadly the stripper is . Its not much different than washing a greasy plate and trying to figure if the hot water and the detergent are getting it all off or not . I normally wash down and buff dry at the end like I said above . If you don't get it all off even after sanding its not going to stain good . It wont sand well , It wont stain well .

[EagerBeaver71]

I wouldn't touch the harder shaped bits until you know your doing the flat bits right . a whole job not right is one your going to have to do twice .
You have to test it as your stripping .

Hi Rob, Thanks for the advice. Do you think what I've done so far is enough stripping and sanding?, I've gone upto 120grit and left it at that until I got further advice as to whether this is enough.

[auscab]

No one can tell if you've stripped it right but you . I'd have to be 8 inches away to tell . What I can see looks OK but be careful with the sand paper . What do you mean you've gone up to 120 grit ? What did you start at ?

A nice flat thing like that stripped right could just need a 280 then a 320 to 400 to be right . 120 is OK but bordering on to strong . Anything more coarse could mean big trouble .

[auscab]

The veneer started at .6mm when laid then was sanded. You don't want to go through .

You should take out the glass , remove handles / brass ware . Stick it all somewhere safe . Put the work up on a table if you can .

[EagerBeaver71]

No one can tell if you've stripped it right but you . I'd have to be 8 inches away to tell . What I can see looks OK but be careful with the sand paper . What do you mean you've gone up to 120 grit ? What did you start at ?

A nice flat thing like that stripped right could just need a 280 then a 320 to 400 to be right . 120 is OK but bordering on to strong . Anything more coarse could mean big trouble .


I started at 80grit but soon realised it was clogging too quick so decided to go the steel wool route, then hit it with 120. As a professional cabinet maker what do you look for and know the piece is ready for staining?.

[auscab]

I wouldn't have sanded it like that exactly. Just lightly after a good wash off is enough for it to take a stain .

If you lick your finger and can wet a dry bit and it soaks it in its going to take a stain . Get a rag with some water and do some small tests where you think its good and where you think its bad .

Those parts a few mm above where the side meets the base look like they still have colour . A cabinet scraper can clean that up good . But do a small water test there and see what happens between the raw sanded part and where there still may be finish .

[EagerBeaver71]

I wouldn't have sanded it like that exactly. Just lightly after a good wash off is enough for it to take a stain .

So are you saying I shouldn't aim to take all the stain out?


If you lick your finger and can wet a dry bit and it soaks it in its going to take a stain . Get a rag with some water and do some small tests where you think its good and where you think its bad .

This advice is worth its weight in gold, never thought of that! - thanks Rob!


Those parts a few mm above where the side meets the base look like they still have colour . A cabinet scraper can clean that up good . But do a small water test there and see what happens between the raw sanded part and where there still may be finish .

Yes I see it, I'll give it another going over. Where can I get a cabinet scaper?. I sent you a PM and you sent me my PM back without any reply?.

[auscab]

So are you saying I shouldn't aim to take all the stain out?

Not the old stain . Its to late now though . If your going darker the old stain doesn't matter. And you would have had an equally absorbent surface once the old polish was gone . Now Id say your going to have to make the rest the same as the sanded bits you've done .

But test and see !! Does a stripped and lightly sanded part take your stain the same as the ripped into new sanded surface ? Id say the deep sanded is going to drink in the stain and be darker . Your going to have to test or just sand the lot the same.
you probably should be going finer than 120 as well .




Where can I get a cabinet scaper?.

Well , where have I heard that asked before ? And the burnisher ? And how to use it ?? :)

Scrapers . I make them from old saws . Haven't bought one for thirty years . Try Carbatec maybe if you don't have the cutting and grinding machines .

The Burnisher .
Try getting info here. Card scraper burnisher (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f11/card-scraper-burnisher-231012)

[EagerBeaver71]

See photo's for progress thus far. Stripped, carefully sanded 240-400grit until my fingers bled.

I found a few holes and dents at the bottom of the case which need filling (see photo's). Should I fill the holes/dents now or after its been stained?. Also, should I use Timbermate for the filler because I have loads of the stuff.


You need to pick a stain you like and know how to seal and polish If you want the hand polish look . Which is a fine look .

I've chosen Feast Watson Prooftint Mahogany Interior for the stain and yes I'd love to learn how to do the hand polished look. Directions and materials are very appreciated!.


What gives a good look is at the start, staining lighter than you may actually want at the end, and adding colours and effects on the way up within the layers to end up where you want with an un noticeable distinctive variation in the finish on the way through . One great way of getting this is trying your best then stripping it back by rubbing off the lot with Metho . leave some there and start again .

How would I go about staining it lighter, use less of the stain or thin some down in a cup, what do I use to thin it though?.

All replies and comments appreciated. Be gentle with me tho I'm very much a beginner!.

[auscab]

Prep job looks good .

Is it the Mahogany in this you have ? 3 down right column ?
If it is, Its awfully Red and nothing like nice original Mahogany .
Your better off finding a picture of something with a colour you like and showing it maybe . Unless its Red you want ?
465749

[EagerBeaver71]

I forgot to mention, the backing board that was stapled to the back of the clock was also glued and unfortunately got damaged, I got some 3mm hardwood for the back which I'll cut to the same size and hopefully no one will be the wiser!.

[auscab]

How would I go about staining it lighter, use less of the stain or thin some down in a cup, what do I use to thin it though?.



Your going to have to test to see how it thins . Id guess and say all purpose thinners is going to work . If you have some tip a little in a clear jar and drop some stain in and watch it holding up to the light . If it dissipates and thins out then that's good . Turps, Metho and water could be tried . I doubt its a water stain though . Ive never used it . Test by spreading it on wood with a rag as well . On an inside bit not seen .
Does it not say how to thin it on the container ?

[EagerBeaver71]

Prep job looks good .

Is it the Mahogany in this you have ? 3 down right column ?
If it is, Its awfully Red and nothing like nice original Mahogany .
Your better off finding a picture of something with a colour you like and showing it maybe . Unless its Red you want ?

Ok well if it turned out to be that colour I would be p*ssed!lol, I did a sample test on a piece of pine I had knocking around though just to be sure, I'm not totally sure if the colour would be the same on the clock case?


465750465751

[EagerBeaver71]

I would like it this colour:

[auscab]

If you touch the fresh sanded clock case with that stuff its going that colour .
See how with the pine its sucking it up into different grain direction bits . The clock case end grain will probably suck extra in as well and look worse at those parts .

You need to first sort out the thinning . I wouldn't be using anything there at full strength I dont think .

[EagerBeaver71]

If you touch the fresh sanded clock case with that stuff its going that colour .
See how with the pine its sucking it up into different grain direction bits . The clock case end grain will probably suck extra in as well and look worse at those parts .

You need to first sort out the thinning . I wouldn't be using anything there at full strength I dont think .

I'll post some photo's tomorrow of the other furniture I have in the room, basically I want it to match my large bookcase, side table, tv unit. If you can advise me on a stain that would most likely match that would be great. Thanks for helping me out mate.

[auscab]

I would like it this colour:


The darker front to carcase or the lighter door ?

[EagerBeaver71]

The darker front to carcase or the lighter door ?

The darker front. I'll get some better photo's tomorrow of everything.

[Lappa]

If your using Feast Watson Prooftint Stains they say to use Colour Reducer- I used to use it but I now just use metho. Does the same job.
Coles sells metho guaranteed at no less than 98%. That’s what I use.

Start with a very diluted mix. I normally use cloth to rub it in then rub it off. Build the colour up over a number of coats. If it’s way too light, add a little more stain to the mix. It easier to start from light and work to darker but hard to lighten up from dark as it’s a stain and penetrates.

As has been mentioned, take care with end grain as it will absorb the stain more readily. I have found that it actually goes darker with the same number of coats than the other surfaces so take care and dilute the mix more and use less coats.

correction: just checked - Coles metho is guaranteed 95% not 98% as I stated.

[EagerBeaver71]

If your using Feast Watson Prooftint Stains they say to use Colour Reducer- I used to use it but I now just use metho. Does the same job.
Coles sells metho guaranteed at no less than 98%. That’s what I use.

Start with a very diluted mix. I normally use cloth to rub it in then rub it off. Build the colour up over a number of coats. If it’s way too light, add a little more stain to the mix. It easier to start from light and work to darker but hard to lighten up from dark as it’s a stain and penetrates.

As has been mentioned, take care with end grain as it will absorb the stain more readily. I have found that it actually goes darker with the same number of coats than the other surfaces so take care and dilute the mix more and use less coats.

Great tips, thanks Lappa.

[EagerBeaver71]

Generally I want the value to be as dark as the rest of my furniture in the living room. As for the colour, I'm not quite sure what would match. Included are some photo's to give a general idea of what I want it to matched too.

465768465769

[Lappa]

A number of people have recommended or linked to an antique furniture restorer called Thomas Johnson. I’ve started watching his videos and I really like them. Good explanations , shows various repair techniques and what I love is his colour matching.
Well worth spending the time IMO

[auscab]

That's right . There is lots of stuff to do with polishing and staining where you can learn on Youtube . And trying to describe it all here is a long job .

Basically your going to have to get a brown colour that's not so red .
What we who do it for a living have to do is look and test as many colours as it takes to get close but lighter . Seal that in then colour up from there with different colours mixed into the shellac . Do that thin and low then seal that in and body up . Then when its full work on the shiny part .

A good match rarely comes out of a can in one hit and is dead on . With a bit of testing you may get it though . You'd have to go buying more tins . Id buy a brown version of that stuff . You could use a few drops of the Mahogany to warm it up if it was needed . I don't thing it would be though . When I'm doing this for a match Ive got 20 options . How I start differs with each job if its different timbers each job .

I have seen other stains on the shelf at the hardware , possibly Cabots , where they have more Oxide or Pigment colours mixed in. Its more opaque . Needed when going darker . It looks like that's more whats needed for a start ?

If you can get the stains right and the colour worked out your next step is to seal it in . This can be tricky with just shellac and some stains like that . The metho in the shellac pulls them off while you sealing . If its a built up colour youve either go to go thin and fast with a few coats . Because if it starts pulling colour out it can get very patchy . A better soloution is to seal in with an oil based sanding sealer . The colours wont move around and the thinned sanding sealer builds up the body quickly . With a coat or two of that and good cutting back you go back to shellac . French polish from there .

To get really accurate colours like I said before . Thin coloured shellac can adjust the colour in low down in the job . Ive spoken about these colours before on another thread and they have multiple uses . The use of these is a bit complex when it comes to colouring up a job using them . Its a french polishers method of either adding with a brush the right way . The right sort of brush too . Or a rubber on flat wide things can be used . And you'd have to go buying in the raw colours .

[Lappa]

Thanks for your detailed replies.

i noticed Thomas uses a spray “lacquer” ( his words but he doesn’t elaborate) to seal the stains when the colour was close, then used aerosol toners to blend in, colour pens in small areas etc to get the colours spot on. I did ask him what lacquer he used but haven’t got an answer yet. You answered my query - thanks

[EagerBeaver71]

I'm going through the Thomas Johnson video's, really helpful information. Do you guys think I should stick with Feast Watson which is a spirit based dye stain or get another brand that's recommended?. I don't want to use any water based stains.

[EagerBeaver71]

I need to get on with the staining soon so should I be filling the small dents and holes first or after staining?. I'll be using Timbermate.

[auscab]

First is a good idea .

[EagerBeaver71]

Is there a name for this type of effect on wood where its dark on the edges and tapers off lighter, like a worn in look, example:


465958

How is this achieved?.

[auscab]

Its a type of shading done usually with a spray gun . It can be applied lots of ways .

On guitars its called a sunburst paint or colour job .

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRqp2E3FT7o)

[EagerBeaver71]

correction: just checked - Coles metho is guaranteed 95% not 98% as I stated.

Hey Lappa, Do you mean guaranteed 95% Metho?, will this be ok to use as a thinner with Feast Watson Prooftint:

https://www.chs.com.au/Product/Methylated-Spirits-Maxi-1Lt.aspx (https://www.chs.com.au/Product/Methylated-Spirits-Maxi-1Lt.aspx)

[Lappa]

Metho (ethanol) absorbs water so commonly available metho from supermarkets and hardware shops is rarely 100% ethanol pure. You can buy 100% metho from chemical suppliers but I have found no problems with the Coles 95% for both mixing with shellac flakes or thinning Prooftint.
i do buy a new bottle when making a fresh batch of shellac and leave the rest for cleaning up badly damaged shellac finishes on old furniture, mixing with Prooftint and cleaning up.

i couldn’t see a percentage on the product you linked to.

[EagerBeaver71]

Metho (ethanol) absorbs water so commonly available metho from supermarkets and hardware shops is rarely 100% ethanol pure. You can buy 100% metho from chemical suppliers but I have found no problems with the Coles 95% for both mixing with shellac flakes or thinning Prooftint.
i do buy a new bottle when making a fresh batch of shellac and leave the rest for cleaning up badly damaged shellac finishes on old furniture, mixing with Prooftint and cleaning up.

i couldn’t see a percentage on the product you linked to.

I found this but not quite sure what to look for, it says ethanol 64-17-5 %70-100

http://www.gsbchemicals.com.au/msds/hardware/kcb_methylated_spirits_2014.pdf

[Lappa]

According the MSDS the ethanol content can range from 70% to 100%; with the rest made up of water and the denaturant (gives it the evil taste to hopefully stop you from drinking it - which is less than 1%).

So I would guess that each batch would be actually labelled to reflect a true ethanol content for that batch which could range from 70% to 100% depending on what the customer required?

Just seems weird that the water can be as high as 35% but the lowest ethanol content is 70% which together is greater than 100% but hey, I’m not a chemist. Maybe someone has an answer?

[EagerBeaver71]

According the MSDS the ethanol content can range from 70% to 100%; with the rest made up of water and the denaturant (gives it the evil taste to hopefully stop you from drinking it - which is less than 1%).

So I would guess that each batch would be actually labelled to reflect a true ethanol content for that batch which could range from 70% to 100% depending on what the customer required?

Just seems weird that the water can be as high as 35% but the lowest ethanol content is 70% which together is greater than 100% but hey, I’m not a chemist. Maybe someone has an answer?

Coles here I come then!. Thanks for all your advice Lappa. Especially the link to Tom Johnson vids, I've subscribed to his channel now as I think hes brilliant. Just a quck question, do I need to seal in every coat of stain with shellac?, assuming I should be staining in layers building up to the final colour.

[Lappa]

Generally, dye stains are used to penetrate the wood therefore you wouldn’t seal between coats. Dye stain and shellac have the same carrier eg. Metho, so you can rub off stain when applying shellac which can be counter intuitive. However, dye stains can be added to shellac or applied after a sealing coat to finesse in the colour. I noticed Tom uses a lacquer spray over dye stains to seal the colour in.
Auscab is far, far more experienced than me in the restore department so hopefully he will chime in - his advice would be spot on.
I’ve only recently started the journey and he has been a great help :D

[EagerBeaver71]

Generally, dye stains are used to penetrate the wood therefore you wouldn’t seal between coats. Dye stain and shellac have the same carrier eg. Metho, so you can rub off stain when applying shellac which can be counter intuitive. However, dye stains can be added to shellac or applied after a sealing coat to finesse in the colour. I noticed Tom uses a lacquer spray over dye stains to seal the colour in.
Auscab is far, far more experienced than me in the restore department so hopefully he will chime in - his advice would be spot on.
I’ve only recently started the journey and he had been a great help :D

Should I be using a pigmented oil stain after I'm close to the colour with the dye stain?. If so, where do I get oil stain from?. Agreed Auscab is worth his weight in gold, check his website out, his work is beautiful.

[Lappa]

Most finish manufacturers have a range of oil based stains.

This is Cabot’s, not that I’m recommending them over others, it’s just an example of the range of colours available.

Cabots Interior Stain Oil Based (https://cabots.com.au/product/cabots-interior-stain-oil-based)

[EagerBeaver71]

Most finish manufacturers have a range of oil based stains.

This is Cabot’s, not that I’m recommending them over others, it’s just an example of the range of colours available.

Cabots Interior Stain Oil Based (https://cabots.com.au/product/cabots-interior-stain-oil-based)

Just oil?, not stain and varnish stuff?.

Can you tint this with the Feast Watson stain?:
Cabot's 250ml Tint Base Interior Stain | Bunnings Warehouse (https://www.bunnings.com.au/cabot-s-250ml-tint-base-interior-stain_p1520278)

[Lappa]

Regarding tinting that product with prooftint dyes, I have no idea. You would be better to ring
Cabots and ask them.
Going by their website, Feast Watson do not mention tinting their Stain and Varnish with Prooftint to alter the colour but there is a section on doing it with their Clear Varnish so once again, I’m unsure.

Normally I would use a Stain and Varnish combo when I have chosen a set colour from a chart, but that’s just me. One advantage is you can mostly remove it with lacquer thinners if you don’t like it but there is always a bit of colour remaining.

The key is to either get the colour you want first up or end up lighter and colour up to the colour you want. You can make a shellac dye/pigment mix and lay it ontop of the Stain Varnish Finish. I have been told that if you want to go over the shellac with a different finish like poly etc, make sure the shellac is dewaxed.

As I said earlier, I’m new to this having only done a few antiques so I can only speak from my own experiences.

I would by some different products and practise on some timber first before attacking the clock.:wink:

At at the moment I’m on holidays so I’m playing with different finishes on different timbers and I’m going to pick up some wrecked old furniture to practise repairs and colour matching.

[EagerBeaver71]

At at the moment I’m on holidays so I’m playing with different finishes on different timbers and I’m going to pick up some wrecked old furniture to practise repairs and colour matching.

How do you normally finish the wood?, wirewool beeswax the varnish?

[Lappa]

The Friesan Tail Clock was Ubeaut’s Traditional wax applied with a rag then buffed off by hand as was the small Dutch cupboard. The Clock was a mess - total rebuild and refinish and the cupboard had a very tied finish and split top so repairs, clean, refinish then wax.

The Ladies Writing desk was Howard’s Feed-N-Wax applied with a rag and buffed off by hand as was the wall mounted bric-a-brac cupboard. The writing desk needed repairs plus refinish on one side and a good clean and wax. The cupboard needed some new trim plus a clean and wax.

All are from my wife’s family. Her grandparents who brought them over from Holland. They were all finished with shellac.

I’m really liking the Howard product and I noticed Tom uses it:2tsup:

[EagerBeaver71]

The Clock was a mess - total rebuild and refinish and the cupboard had a very tied finish and split top so repairs, clean, refinish then wax.

The Ladies Writing desk was Howard’s Feed-N-Wax applied with a rag and buffed off by hand as was the wall mounted bric-a-brac cupboard. The writing desk needed repairs plus refinish on one side and a good clean and wax. The cupboard needed some new trim plus a clean and wax.

All are from my wife’s family. Her grandparents who brought them over from Holland. They were all finished with shellac.

I’m really liking the Howard product and I noticed Tom uses it:2tsup:

Do you buy this online or can you get it at Bunnings or other hardware store?. What is your refinishing process?. Some nice Dutch/German furniture out there.

[Lappa]

Buy online

Wax Furniture Polish, Beeswax, Australian Wood Care Products | Howard Products (https://www.howardproducts.com.au/)

I just followed their instructions.

[EagerBeaver71]

Merry Xmas everyone. Just a quick question, is it better to apply the stain with a brush when doing all the beading and intricate corners etc?

[EagerBeaver71]

I have come to the conclusion I'm not worried about matching any particular colour. All I want is to give the clock an antique look. So I'm not after an exact colour match of anything in particular just something that looks dated.

I had a rummage through the garage and found all these stains: Wattyl Contemporary Maple, Feast Watson Range - Walnut, Mahogany, Teak Brown, Old Baltic, Elm, Oak. Anyone got any suggestions/mixtures to try?.

I like the wood colour in this photo and would like to aim at doing something similar, doesn't have to be exact.

466182

Also, in regard to sealing the stain, on the Feast Watson website it says: "Once thoroughly dry, seal with Feast Watson Floorseal Oil, Clear Varnish, Weatherproof Pro, or Scandinavian Oil. The clear topcoat ensures lasting protection and fully develops the final colour."

Would Clear Varnish do the same job at sealing the stain or should I still use sanding sealer?.

[auscab]

With the stains , the names on the tin don’t mean much . What they look like on your wood is what matters . And if they can be used together. You could get some of the same wood to test polish on . Or something similar. Yours looks like Beech and it’s available. Or try it on a part of your woodwork out of the way .

When I’m polishing using shellac then I know it sticks to my thinned oil based sanding sealer . And I know it’s never stuck to oil based Matt Satin or gloss top coats . So in my book , if I were sealing with those you mention , I’d have to stay with that till the end . I wouldn’t do it . If I wanted to know if it looked good and worked well and finished off easy Id try it out .

[EagerBeaver71]

With the stains , the names on the tin don’t mean much . What they look like on your wood is what matters . And if they can be used together. You could get some of the same wood to test polish on . Or something similar. Yours looks like Beech and it’s available. Or try it on a part of your woodwork out of the way .

I've done some extensive testing on scrap hardboard, pine & finally on the inside of case out of sight as suggested. You are spot on Rob, the colours are totally different in reality to what their samples are, in fact some are way off!. Also I found Feast Watson tints are very concentrated in pigment and need thinning down alot with metho.


When I’m polishing using shellac then I know it sticks to my thinned oil based sanding sealer . And I know it’s never stuck to oil based Matt Satin or gloss top coats . So in my book , if I were sealing with those you mention , I’d have to stay with that till the end . I wouldn’t do it . If I wanted to know if it looked good and worked well and finished off easy Id try it out .

I have some sanding sealer by Feast Watson, as I remember from using it before it makes the surface quite rough, do I sand it after applying?. How much do I thin it?. Here's a link to what I have:

Sanding Sealer | Sealer For Open Grain Timber

(http://www.feastwatson.com.au/consumer/products/exterior/product-details/1504)In other news. I found a lovely English Oak Drop Leaf Table with twist legs, the top needs a re-finish and I'm looking forward to opening a new thread on my adventures with that one. I noticed while browsing the forums alot of posters don't do follow ups with pictures of their final results. In the interest of others learning from my mistakes and for my own reference I will take pictures at every stage including the final result - no matter how bad it looks!haha!.

[auscab]

I have some sanding sealer by Feast Watson, as I remember from using it before it makes the surface quite rough, do I sand it after applying?. How much do I thin it?. Here's a link to what I have:

Sanding Sealer | Sealer For Open Grain Timber

(http://www.feastwatson.com.au/consumer/products/exterior/product-details/1504)


Yes its sanded . Cut back .

Thinning . 30% turps added to 70% SS is pretty good.

Two coats with a light cut back after the first and a hard cut back after the second.

As it comes its too thick. Thinned it can be brushed or sprayed .

A good job comes from applying and knowing how hard to cut it back . Its got to be cut back HARD for a good job . Test to the point of taking off stain and work out a way of only going 80% that hard.

Cutting back wet with water is good .

[EagerBeaver71]

What gives a good look is at the start, staining lighter than you may actually want at the end, and adding colours and effects on the way up within the layers to end up where you want with an un noticeable distinctive variation in the finish on the way through . One great way of getting this is trying your best then stripping it back by rubbing off the lot with Metho . leave some there and start again .

Not happy with the colour, I used Walnut in the Feast Watson Prooftint range. That stuff needs seriously thinning down, I ended up mixing 300mls Metho with 100ml of tint and it was still too dark when applied!. Anyway I found the Walnut didn't have enough warmth to it so I need to find a stain that's warmer. The Mahogany Feast Watson make is horrible and looks nothing like mahogany like Auscab said.

Auscab, I've washed most of the stain off with metho as suggested, should I give it a light sanding with 400 before I start again?.

[auscab]

Auscab, I've washed most of the stain off with metho as suggested, should I give it a light sanding with 400 before I start again?.

Yeah give it a light sand if it needs it .

[auscab]

Not happy with the colour, I used Walnut in the Feast Watson Prooftint range. That stuff needs seriously thinning down, I ended up mixing 300mls Metho with 100ml of tint and it was still too dark when applied!. Anyway I found the Walnut didn't have enough warmth to it so I need to find a stain that's warmer. The Mahogany Feast Watson make is horrible and looks nothing like mahogany like Auscab said.



The Walnut and Mahogany are the same type of stain so they mix . A little Mahog mixed in may warm the Walnut up enough ?

In my spirit stains I keep Black handy for making a red stain more brown . And I use Bismark for adding red to brown to warm it up . Sometimes the black to kill red needs green added as well .
Magenta kills yellow off . To much and the job goes Magenta / purple .

A good strong change of colour can be had by water staining first ( Wet sand before that ) Then using spirit stains after that to swing it in . Then seal before going on .

Once again . The only way is testing . Having a full range of water colours , Reaction stain knowledge , a good range of thinner and spirit colours and all the oxide or pigments to mix . With those and a few boards with 20 tests done using a heat gun to dry . You can come up with a solution.

Rob

[EagerBeaver71]

The Walnut and Mahogany are the same type of stain so they mix . A little Mahog mixed in may warm the Walnut up enough ?

In my spirit stains I keep Black handy for making a red stain more brown . And I use Bismark for adding red to brown to warm it up . Sometimes the black to kill red needs green added as well .
Magenta kills yellow off . To much and the job goes Magenta / purple .

A good strong change of colour can be had by water staining first ( Wet sand before that ) Then using spirit stains after that to swing it in . Then seal before going on .

Once again . The only way is testing . Having a full range of water colours , Reaction stain knowledge , a good range of thinner and spirit colours and all the oxide or pigments to mix . With those and a few boards with 20 tests done using a heat gun to dry . You can come up with a solution.

Rob

Hi Rob,

Here's the Feast Watson Mahogany stain on some scrap 3mm ply. I'm a bit hesitant to use it to be honest, when its mixed 50-50 with metho it almost looks pink to me, is that normal?. On the subject of my light sanding efforts today. Should I be worried about some of the stain still remaining in the corners and beading?.

466285

[auscab]

466295
You had that above

And you want this below
466290466291466292

The Mahogany sample below bottom left is terrible . I was saying you could just use a little to add to the others . Hardly enough to notice the Magenta colour . I dont think you need it though , Those three colours at the bottom of your test strip which I enlarged look pretty good for a base colour.
466293466294

You have wiped them on Pine veneer . The pine will give a more blotchy look . It doesn't soak up stain evenly . Your beech should be better except end grain possibly .

Try sealing in those test stains then polishing with shellac . If your were using flake or button shellac the amber colour will massively help you out adding rich amber warmth over that stain . Anything else wont do that as well . A mix of flake / button and The blonde sold here , the U-Beaut stuff, is a way of steering the effect shellac has on a colour job . If it needs more adjusting or shading then it can be done before to much shellac goes on by colouring the shellac.

Do you know anything about applying shellac with brush then a rubber ? boding up with rubber and finishing off with oil ? In general . French polishing ? Cause that's a separate subject on its own . Not one I want to try and explain . Been there done that . Its too long and hard . Real easy to do once you know . There is supposedly a book on it produced here by the forum.

You could either study that ,or go down the path of brush coat , then fine steel wool and wax. Nowhere as good as the real deal .

[EagerBeaver71]

Try sealing in those test stains then polishing with shellac . If your were using flake or button shellac the amber colour will massively help you out adding rich amber warmth over that stain . Anything else wont do that as well . A mix of flake / button and The blonde sold here , the U-Beaut stuff, is a way of steering the effect shellac has on a colour job . If it needs more adjusting or shading then it can be done before to much shellac goes on by colouring the shellac.

Just to be sure, I seal the stains in with sanding sealer yeah, not shellac?. I think the amber colour is whats missing. I'm not familiar with shellac as a medium so had no idea of its colour, I'm learning alot!. Have you got a link to the shellac I need to buy?.



Do you know anything about applying shellac with brush then a rubber ? boding up with rubber and finishing off with oil ? In general . French polishing ? Cause that's a separate subject on its own . Not one I want to try and explain . Been there done that . Its too long and hard . Real easy to do once you know . There is supposedly a book on it produced here by the forum.

I need to educate myself. I'll try and hunt down the book. With some of the stain still remaining on the clock case, do I need to get rid of that stain left in the corners or is it ok just to leave?.

Really appreciate all your help Rob.

[auscab]

Just to be sure, I seal the stains in with sanding sealer yeah, not shellac?. I think the amber colour is whats missing. I'm not familiar with shellac as a medium so had no idea of its colour, I'm learning alot!. Have you got a link to the shellac I need to buy?.

Seal stains in with the sanding sealer. Do full test panels with stain, sealer, shellac and what ever you know to see if you can get what you want . Sand the test panels first. Use a heat gun to speed up drying times . Or the sun if you don't have one .


Bunnings have the 1 kg flake at $90 .

Search - Our range | Bunnings Warehouse (https://www.bunnings.com.au/search/products?page=1&q=shellac&sort=BoostOrder&pageSize=60)

HARD SHELLAC - New improved formula finish. (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/hardshell.htm)

SHELLAC FLAKES and FRENCH POLISH (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/flakes.html#fp1)

You need the two u-beaut items . You then have an orange flake and a bleached or Blonde shellac to play with.



I need to educate myself. I'll try and hunt down the book. With some of the stain still remaining on the clock case, do I need to get rid of that stain left in the corners or is it ok just to leave?.

Really appreciate all your help Rob.

No probs . You decide the above last question based on whether you want to see it or not .

Here's a link to the book . Ive never seen it The guys around here rave about it though .

A Polishers Handbook (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/book.html)

[EagerBeaver71]

Bunnings have the 1 kg flake at $90

Bunnings have made enough out of me I think, I'll get the brand off here which is cheaper and probably better in all honesty!.

Quick rant: Why is it that Bunnings have no competition in regard to huge warehouse DIY stores?, when I lived in the UK we had 3 major warehouse DIY stores all competing with one another and the selection was huge, every major brand from UK/US. Over here you are limited to brands/items they stock which rake in the most cash for these greedy selfish people and alot of the time its shoddy quality items they stock. Sorry, you can open your eyes again now.

[EagerBeaver71]

Hi Rob,

I'm going to put an order together for the items you suggested. Is there anything else I might need that you can recommend?. I'm having some issues with Timbermate. I noticed the stain gets sucked into the filler turning it almost black. Do you you recommend this stuff or is there something better I can get from here or elsewhere, or maybe I'm not using it correctly?.

[auscab]

Bunnings have made enough out of me I think, I'll get the brand off here which is cheaper and probably better in all honesty!.

Quick rant: Why is it that Bunnings have no competition in regard to huge warehouse DIY stores?, when I lived in the UK we had 3 major warehouse DIY stores all competing with one another and the selection was huge, every major brand from UK/US. Over here you are limited to brands/items they stock which rake in the most cash for these greedy selfish people and alot of the time its shoddy quality items they stock. Sorry, you can open your eyes again now.


We had Masters for a while . They held less stock and thought we'd like the pretty organised look .
Pretty sure they were cheaper at a lot of stuff ? I know glue was . We didn't shop there enough .

Rob

[auscab]

Hi Rob,

I'm going to put an order together for the items you suggested. Is there anything else I might need that you can recommend?. I'm having some issues with Timbermate. I noticed the stain gets sucked into the filler turning it almost black. Do you you recommend this stuff or is there something better I can get from here or elsewhere, or maybe I'm not using it correctly?.


Metho for your shellac.

Plasti bond for quality filling or Agnews for something similar but better than Timbermate

Search - Our range | Bunnings Warehouse (https://www.bunnings.com.au/search/products?page=1&q=plasti%20bond&sort=BoostOrder&pageSize=60)

Search - Our range | Bunnings Warehouse (https://www.bunnings.com.au/search/products?page=1&q=agnews%20water%20putty&sort=BoostOrder&pageSize=60)

Oxide or pigment colours to colour Bog or shellac.

Some good ones would be a Black , Dark Brown, red lighter Brown ( Burnt sienna colour), Red , Yellow and white .
Im surprised to see White there . Not sure if its titanium white . The good one or not ? Ill be trying some next time I go .

Search - Our range | Bunnings Warehouse (https://www.bunnings.com.au/search/products?page=1&q=oxide%20colours&sort=BoostOrder&pageSize=60)

Spirit colours to mix with Bog or shellac

http://www.gbrownantiques.com.au/pdfs/Hardware%20Catalog.pdf

The ones to ask about, some not listed, are . Bismark , Spirit Black . Both very handy .

Good to have but hardly used
Green , Magenta , Yellow . Sometimes used. When I do need them they can be a life saver!! A matchbox full could last a lifetime though .

[auscab]

Plasti bond is for filling under surfaces that are seen . Under the polish job or up level with the polished surface when its repair work .

Agnews is for filling under where things are not seen . like a knotty split table top on the under side where quality wood patches may have been used on top and the under side is still knotty and split . It works under polish jobs as well . There is a trick to using it though . How to get it flat after it dries.

Timbermate is for the rubbish bin . It works but why limit yourself to a pre coloured tub of s++t?

A raw filler that works when water is added and a range of colours so you can make up any thing you want makes better sense. . It'll sit there ready for ever and not go of as well .

[EagerBeaver71]

Timbermate is for the rubbish bin . It works but why limit yourself to a pre coloured tub of s++t?.

You know I've been saying this for a long time!, when I first came to Australia from the UK, everyone raved on how great timbermate was blah blah blah, my wife used it all her life for one DIY job or another. When I first tried it I thought, holy cr*p is this all I have to fill holes in timber for the rest of my life?. Against my wifes wishes I bought some bog instead.

Rob, You have just confirmed my judgement in these matters is much better than the wifes! :U

[EagerBeaver71]

Some more test samples, this time with varnish finish over the top just to see what it looks like. I think the closest one I can see is the Jarrah, @auscab or do you think its a little bit too red?.

466824466825466826466827

[EagerBeaver71]

Would I be better off wiping on the stain or using my compressor & HVLP spray gun?, whats the difference?

[auscab]

Did you go buy all that ? Its a good range .

Yes the Jarrah looks dead on but consider how much your putting on over that to finish it . If your doing to the same level as that test and that's it then fine do that .

Spraying stain is fast but you need a good mask, through ventilation , a fan or wind ? Space . You don't want to be smelling anything . And you will go through twice as much .

With a rag and one glove You can wipe it on and maybe go weaker on the end grain if its needed . Have a can of thinner or metho ready to wash out stain from end grain if its needed . Fine tune it and detail it by rubbing some out in places and you go down the path of a finish that will look better.

Here's a secret. :)
A real good polish job with lots of character and variation but looking the right colour is Exactly The Same to a painting that an artist does on a canvas.

Every detail the artist wants has to be put there to make the image He/She wants.

So one wipe of colour , one wipe of sealer or two . Three wipes of shellac , finish , wax . looks dead boring ! Pretty much what most people do .

If you shade the stain in and out where its needed You can get a better look. What I do sometimes is , use three different stains blended in to one another across the surfaces. Mix three that are similar but different . After sealing Apply later coloured finished half way through , then wipeing them off so they stay in the cracks and crevices of mouldings. Then head towards finishing . Your going to be getting a more interesting look . The more you do the better it gets . If your going in the right direction or taking the right path.

I had to teach myself that path . And a typical quality patinated finish has at least three reaction stains before the three blended spirit stains , six inter layered effects at least , three patina effects then finishing and waxing .
Sometimes all that gets done and the whole lot gets washed off cause I got it wrong and I couldnt fix it .
sometimes that's the best thing that could have happened because the second attempt comes up way better when I know where I went wrong .

On quality from new complex colour work .
The strange thing is I know the fine details of what I just mentioned in above chapter but at the start of every job Im lost! Every time completely Lost .
Ive got to get into it and start and work before I get a feel for where its going . Try things , wipe off mistakes . Once it gets going I hit a point where I feel good with it then a point I know Ive got it . That "got it" part may be half way or two thirds through .

So you have to play with it and be prepared to do it two or three times and you can get a much better result that a one off go . For sure ! :U

[EagerBeaver71]

Did you go buy all that ? Its a good range .

If you enlarge the photo's you will see I made 3 shades with each colour. The colours I have are Jarrah, Elm, Teak Brown, Oak, Walnut, Baltic Oak.


Spraying stain is fast but you need a good mask, through ventilation , a fan or wind ? Space . You don't want to be smelling anything . And you will go through twice as much .

I got the mask, pretty much like a 1942's gas mask kind of thing!. Does spraying have less of an effect on bringing the grain out?.


With a rag and one glove You can wipe it on and maybe go weaker on the end grain if its needed . Have a can of thinner or metho ready to wash out stain from end grain if its needed . Fine tune it and detail it by rubbing some out in places and you go down the path of a finish that will look better.

Much prefer to do it this way, only concern is because of my lack of experience is the lap marks and stain not being even in parts it should be.


Here's a secret. :)
A real good polish job with lots of character and variation but looking the right colour is Exactly The Same to a painting that an artist does on a canvas.

Every detail the artist wants has to be put there to make the image He/She wants.

So one wipe of colour , one wipe of sealer or two . Three wipes of shellac , finish , wax . looks dead boring ! Pretty much what most people do .

If you shade the stain in and out where its needed You can get a better look. What I do sometimes is , use three different stains blended in to one another across the surfaces. Mix three that are similar but different . After sealing Apply later coloured finished half way through , then wipeing them off so they stay in the cracks and crevices of mouldings. Then head towards finishing . Your going to be getting a more interesting look . The more you do the better it gets . If your going in the right direction or taking the right path.

I had to teach myself that path . And a typical quality patinated finish has at least three reaction stains before the three blended spirit stains , six inter layered effects at least , three patina effects then finishing and waxing .
Sometimes all that gets done and the whole lot gets washed off cause I got it wrong and I couldnt fix it .
sometimes that's the best thing that could have happened because the second attempt comes up way better when I know where I went wrong .

On quality from new complex colour work .
The strange thing is I know the fine details of what I just mentioned in above chapter but at the start of every job Im lost! Every time completely Lost .
Ive got to get into it and start and work before I get a feel for where its going . Try things , wipe off mistakes . Once it gets going I hit a point where I feel good with it then a point I know Ive got it . That "got it" part may be half way or two thirds through .

So you have to play with it and be prepared to do it two or three times and you can get a much better result that a one off go . For sure ! :U

Amazing insight into the artistry!.

[EagerBeaver71]

First coat of stain is on. Suggestions & help please... should I go darker?, maybe kill the red abit with something?

466948466949466950466951466952466953466954

[auscab]

The Jarrah you had samples of looked darker.

[EagerBeaver71]

The Jarrah you had samples off looked darker.

Its 50-50 Jarrah & Teak + 60% metho, I thought the teak would knock back the red a bit. It is somewhat lighter than the sample but its also taken in daylight rather than artificial lighting. Would it help if I took a photo of the sample next to the case?. What would you do now Rob?. If you say strip it I'll die!.

[auscab]

What would you do now Rob?. If you say strip it I'll die!.

lol .

You can do anything with that . Nothing is sealed in . You could pull more out with metho or add more . Play with it and when your happy let it dry and seal it in .

As it is , it looks more like where you started before it was stripped off, doesn't it ?

[EagerBeaver71]

lol .

You can do anything with that . Nothing is sealed in . You could pull more out with metho or add more . Play with it and when your happy let it dry and seal it in .

As it is , it looks more like where you started before it was stripped off, doesn't it ?

Thats exactly what I thought, but wasn't the idea to start out lighter and gradually work up to the shade?. Would you tone down the red?, I was thinking of adding Walnut?

[auscab]

Thats exactly what I thought, but wasn't the idea to start out lighter and gradually work up to the shade?. Would you tone down the red?, I was thinking of adding Walnut?


Yeah work up to the shade you want . In the space of 5 minutes . Add all the stain you want and get it over with .

[EagerBeaver71]

Yeah work up to the shade you want . In the space of 5 minutes . Add all the stain you want and get it over with .

I'll keep track of the mixtures for future reference. Progress report to come...

[EagerBeaver71]

This is slightly lighter than what I hope will be the final colour, I've tried to make it look less all one colour by using metho to fade area's and hopefully look more antique-ish.

467039467040467041467042467043467044

The colours used were 60ml Jarrah, 30ml Walnut, 20ml Metho. Constructive criticism welcome!, I have no idea what I'm doing so help is much appreciated.

Rob, what do I do now?, or rather what would you do now, don't say burn it cos I'll have a break down.

[auscab]

Sam . After all we've been through What on Earth do you think I'm going to say :)

It looks about like what you showed you wanted.

You have an oil based sanding sealer yes ? Thin it a little and put it on FFFS = For Freddo Frogs Sake :)).

This will hold that type of stain in place so you can coat it up with shellac later, and not be taking out the stain as your putting on shellac.

The start of laying on shellac is the start of your FP job

It looks nice . I would have had the SS on as soon as that was dry so its good for the next day . I like to leave it to dry over night .

[EagerBeaver71]

Sam . After all we've been through What on Earth do you think I'm going to say :)

It looks about like what you showed you wanted.

You have an oil based sanding sealer yes ? Thin it a little and put it on FFFS = For Freddo Frogs Sake :)).

LMAO, For Fredo Frogs Sake!, I'm stealing that one!.


This will hold that type of stain in place so you can coat it up with shellac later, and not be taking out the stain as your putting on shellac.

The start of laying on shellac is the start of your FP job

It looks nice . I would have had the SS on as soon as that was dry so its good for the next day . I like to leave it to dry over night .

So you don't think I've gone too dark?, what sort of detailing & effects do you do after you got the stain on?, or is that after the sanding sealer is in place etc?.

Just letting you know I'm inflicted with being a perfectionist and never completely happy with anything I do.

[auscab]

So you don't think I've gone too dark?, what sort of detailing & effects do you do after you got the stain on?, or is that after the sanding sealer is in place etc?.



The effects I do after sealing .
Ive said it all. All I'm prepared to say that is :)
A lot in this thread and a little in some other threads around here.


Ill add, there is a fast standard way of getting an aged look and that's this method sealing in with SS. Its complex enough and comes up great but the SS has limiting effects .

The more time consuming way I save for the best bits doesn't use modern products . Reacts very differently to things you may do on the faster SS job .

If you get your base colour close but lighter, seal it in and polish it , You will end up somewhere close to the pictures of things you put up .

Ive said this before . If you go get the spirit and oxide colours Ive talked about . Add and take off colours mixed in with shellac as you go . Experiment . Experiment . Experiment . Did I say Experiment ?? You will be shading and getting effects and be going darker with each additional application . It will be a standard polishing way of getting further.

In doing this the trouble I and everyone gets into is going to far and ending up to dark . Good looking light coloured jobs are a more skilled and harder thing to achieve . So go lightly .

I can say that .

I have always been very secretive about the deeper darker processes with some things I do to get things looking the way I do . Like every body else who does the same . Putting it all online is something I cant do . And it would drive me nuts trying to explain it anyway. To long and hard .
edit . Maybe one day Ill do courses on it and teach it . Seems to be the way to go ? Make a buck that way ?

Have you bought your shellac ? or shellac's ? Two types ?

[EagerBeaver71]

Maybe one day Ill do courses on it and teach it . Seems to be the way to go ? Make a buck that way ?

Or you could write a book Rob?... I get first copy signed for suggesting it tho!.



Have you bought your shellac ? or shellac's ? Two types ?

Yes mate, have all the stuff ready, sanding sealer, shellec and a bottle of 100% metho.

Would there be any technical issues by lightening the stain a little bit with metho?

[auscab]

Would there be any technical issues by lightening the stain a little bit with metho?

If anything I think its looking on the light side already , nothing can go wrong if you lighten with metho though .
Strange question ?? You've just put it on with metho added , how could more put on then let dry do anything ?

Do some test spots or the whole thing . If its not looking right metho and steel wool it off and do it again .

Rob

[EagerBeaver71]

Strange question ?? You've just put it on with metho added , how could more put on then let dry do anything ?

When I used metho to wipe off the stain last time it looked as though it was trapping some of the stain in the grain, the wood lightened but the grain was dark, if that makes sense?.

[EagerBeaver71]

So I'm back on the job after a few weeks out. I'll be updating with progress within the next few days!. I have another project which involves a Birch Gateleg Table: https://www.woodworkforums.com/f173/darken-birch-gateleg-table-232847#post2173294

[EagerBeaver71]

This has been very overdue!, however I plan to finish the clock now. As it stands I have the back cut and completed, I only had 7mm veneered plywood which is too thick for the back so I routed the edge to make it flush with the carcass. I chucked some stain on to try and match the colour of the carcass.

515793

This question is directed at Rob (Auscab): Now as I understand it, I should use sanding sealer to seal in the stain, is there any other method I could maybe use to seal the spirit based stain in?. What if I gave it a quick once over with some hard shellac (I love this stuff!) making sure I don't brush back and forth?, or maybe use a roller on the flat parts?...

Next question is, I noticed after staining the plywood back in the grain there is a cross-hatch pattern, what is it and why is it there?.

515795

[EagerBeaver71]

A good job comes from applying and knowing how hard to cut it back . Its got to be cut back HARD for a good job . Test to the point of taking off stain and work out a way of only going 80% that hard.

Cutting back wet with water is good .

Hey Rob, Have you got any advice on knowing when to stop standing the sanding sealer?. I've got one coat on the
clock so far, this was thinned down using 30% turps and applied using a brush.

[auscab]

Hey Rob, Have you got any advice on knowing when to stop standing the sanding sealer?. I've got one coat on the
clock so far, this was thinned down using 30% turps and applied using a brush.

One coat can be a bit thin. Its easy to go through it . Applying two thinned coats is better than one . Id give it a light wipe with fine paper to take off the pin point high spots and give it a second coat . Then when that's dry cut it back a bit harder with fine paper.

[EagerBeaver71]

One coat can be a bit thin. Its easy to go through it . Applying two thinned coats is better than one . Id give it a light wipe with fine paper to take off the pin point high spots and give it a second coat . Then when that's dry cut it back a bit harder with fine paper.

Thanks Rob, yeah I'll be giving it another coat of SS tomorrow. Would 400 grit be ok for the first rub over?, for the
corners and intricate parts can I use 0000 wire wool?.

[auscab]

400 is good . A worn out 400 is better . Steel wool is not as good at this stage. It doesn't flatten as good as fine paper does.

[EagerBeaver71]

400 is good . A worn out 400 is better . Steel wool is not as good at this stage. It doesn't flatten as good as fine paper does.


Ok I've cut it back with some worn out 400 paper, I noticed I sanded through in few small spots (corners), does that matter, can it be rectified during the shellac phase?. Second coat applied and will be waiting till tomorrow for that to dry before the final sanding. Also what could I use to wipe down the dust from the carcass?.

[EagerBeaver71]

Very frustrated. I've started again and taken the clock back to bare wood. The sanding sealer I used was awful and dried very soft hence I kept cutting through to the stain making a mess.

So given the fact everything is back to bare wood, should I use a turps based stain (Wattyl Colourwood Interior Stain) and then just shellac over the top?, or should I use the meth based stain and spray the shellac?. Or maybe theres another option?.

[EagerBeaver71]

How on earth are you supposed to french polish inside corners and difficult to reach area's?.

[EagerBeaver71]

Project complete.

518268

[auscab]

Nice one Sam . It looks like a Walnut clock case . How did you find the french polishing ? Did you stick with that ?
Rob