Private health care

[Wongo]

I had to see a specialist the other day. So I went, I was OK, I handed over my hard earned $200 and said to the lady

“So Medicare will not do me any good, will it?”

“No you get about 60% back” she said.

“Really? Even for a specialist?? Why do people have private health care then?” I said.

We joined private health care 5 years ago. It was when they had the scare campaign to push people to join before the age of 30. We paid around $150 monthly for the whole family. Nothing ever happened in the next 2 years (damn didn’t get to use it).

I said to myself so what is the point then. Why do I put $2000 a year into someone else bank account when the same money can be in my pocket working for me? So we terminated it.

My reason was without private health care you can still see a doctor. With private health care you still need to pay part of the bill. I can be my own private health care. Lets say in the next 5 years I will have $10,000 for my family if needed. If not then it is a bonus.

Someone might say “you silly bugger I have a friend who has cancer and it cost him $20,000 for the treatments.”. But hey insurance is like gambling. I am simply going for the percentages.

What is your view?

[bitingmidge]

“you silly bugger I have a friend who has cancer and it cost her $85,000 for the treatments.”. She sold her house. Couldn't borrow any more, because she didn't have an income.

Now she has cancer, and no where to live.... :(

My dad paid all his life, and wondered the same. Then at the age of 58 he developed a serious condition, which required regular hospital visits for the next 20 years. Because of Health Insurance, he could afford the treatment he needed when he needed it, in comfortable conditions.

Of course when he had a heart attack, he was treated magnificently in a public hospital, same as everyone else. The difference was, that he got his pacemaker the same trip, unlike another friend who waited 8 months for the same "non-urgent" surgery!

Paying the premium hurts, but I reckon I've got a better chance of eventually making a claim, than I do of winning lotto, and I still buy lotto tickets too.

Cheers,

P

[DavidG]

If you get taken to hospital in an ambulance do NOT mention you you have private insurance. It will cost you heaps. Go public and it is all free.

Private insurance is only good for when you need elective surgery. No queue for a price. Also covers teeth and other things.

Dad had to wait 2 years with prostate problems. When they finally got around to it they found it was cancer. If he had been a private patient that two years may have made a difference to the result. :(

Always been insured but I think I have paid in more than I have received.
As I get older I am more scared than ever about dropping out.

[Waldo]

G'day Wongo,

I agree, it's a complete scam from my point of view. OK we need Private h/care as my wife is diabetic and it saves on costs and also with her being pregnant too.

But for what you pay and get back you just get ripped off. I had a boss who does the same thing as you and comes out winning at the other end.

Except for my wife I can't see the value. OK, some might say but we're better off with it, but when you pay top dollar and it doesn't cover everything - it's nothing more than a joke to me.

[Wongo]

“you silly bugger I have a friend who has cancer and it cost her $85,000 for the treatments.”.

Midge, if she had private healthcare would they pay for all $85,000?

[silentC]

We had about $2000 worth of bills last month. Medicare pays a fifth of bugger all of most of it because the doctors charge above the scheduled fee (the good ones always do). Our private health cover paid the rest. The bill from the hospital was around $5000 but the health fund paid the lot. I think we shelled out a couple of hundred.

OK, we could have used the public system and it would have been free, but we thought to hell with the expense, this is our 6 year old daughter and we want the best. If we'd gone public, we would've had whoever was the duty doctor at the time. Instead we got Professor Rosenburg. It made sleeping at night a lot easier.

A guy who I worked with years ago had a theory about car insurance. He reckoned if he put the premium away each year, in the event that something happened, he'd have enough money to buy a new car. Very true, however 6 months after that, someone stole his car and wrote it off. He hadn't had time to save enough premiums and so had to shell out for a new car. He insured it.

[Dan]

Don't forget the Medicare Levy (for those without private cover), 1.5% of your taxable income and depending on your circumstances you may be eligable for a further 1% surcharge. It may be cheaper to have some sort of private cover.

[Dan]

But hey insurance is like gambling.
Your odds are also getting worse as you add to your family. :D

[anthonyd]

But for what you pay and get back you just get ripped off. I had a boss who does the same thing as you and comes out winning at the other end.


Well I suppose if the majority got back equal or more than what they paid in then the private medical company would be out of business and hence not exist would it not?

Private medical cover is an insurance that you really hope you loose on - much like life insurance. And it is not even just diseases. What if you get hit by a car tomorrow and need $100 000 worth of surgery. Yes medicare will pay for the life threatening stuff, but what about the surgery to replace you nose where it should be and not sticking out your ear?

[Wood Borer]

We have no health insurance, used to have it until the greedy health insurance companies kept raising the fees. We must be a bit slow because it took us 15 years to realise that health insurance seems to have nothing to do with health but with plenty to do with wealth. The wealth of the crooks running it and the crooks in the government putting fear into people’s minds so their mates get fatter. They conned us out of lots of money when we couldn’t afford it on the pretence we were doing the right thing by our kids and each other.

I have no problems paying for Health and I have no problems paying in more than I receive back. It is highly desirable that I get back less than I give for two reasons, firstly it means I am healthy and secondly I am contributing to society both high priorities for us.

I would be prepared to pay into a national health scheme 5% or 10% of my salary knowing that my contributions would benefit all Australians and keep the hospitals up with the latest equipment and highly trained staff rather than pay to scum, have run down hospitals and long waiting lists.

In other words, I see the government’s so called encouragement as a threat – get ripped off and make our mates rich or die and suffer – a sad reflection on Australia’s current priorities.

[Ashore]

When I retired from full time work some ten years ago we went through the same thing ,
With us however our children are off our hands . Our doctor a friend who bulk bills us and I do stuff for his surgery, said to put $20,000 into a good intrest account , add $200 a year (10 % ) and use this for all your medical bills,
My wife has had to have two operations in that time buth in private hospitals with specialists etc and with intrest we are still over the original 20 we put in
We do pay the ambulance levy and never touch that money for anything else
It was a slug when we started but I reckon its saved us about 10k
Not every one doing this will come out on the plus side and having a young family would change things, and the money can't be used to get a new car etc it just sits in the investment until you need it but it sure worked for us.


The trouble with life is there's no background music.


Ashore

[savage]

What if you get hit by a car tomorrow and need $100 000 worth of surgery. Yes medicare will pay for the life threatening stuff, but what about the surgery to replace you nose where it should be and not sticking out your ear?

One of my very best mates, and ex-fellow firefighter was hit by a car 2 1/2 weeks ago, he was fixing his sons broke down 4x4 in the breakdown/cycle lane and some dope not paying attention rear ended the 4x4 sending him into the road (thankfully there was a break in the traffic). He ended up with a shattered elbow and 2 x $40k operations later, that is why we pay the CTP slip at rego time, Compulsory Third Party insurance, so that's not a good example Anthony, not picking on you but different kettle of fish so to speak. I do understand what you meant to say, there are a lot of people out their suffering that should not be, due to funds going to the wrong places. A classic example that I remember was some middle aged "surfie chick" applied for and recieved a grant for $8000, get this, to conduct a study into developing a surfboard for a women. Now to all of the women out their before you jump down my throat, think, it was obviously knocked back by the major surf companies or presented a "too hard" way, hit up the government, easy. that money could have gone to women, for breast cancer, cervical cancer or other numerous ailments our better halves are afflicted with, but I guess a surf board is pretty important?!....Just my veiw's.
savage(Eric):)

[ozwinner]

We have no health insurance, used to have it until the greedy health insurance companies kept raising the fees. We must be a bit slow because it took us 15 years to realise that health insurance seems to have nothing to do with health but with plenty to do with wealth. The wealth of the crooks running it and the crooks in the government putting fear into people’s minds so their mates get fatter. They conned us out of lots of money when we couldn’t afford it on the pretence we were doing the right thing by our kids and each other.

I have no problems paying for Health and I have no problems paying in more than I receive back. It is highly desirable that I get back less than I give for two reasons, firstly it means I am healthy and secondly I am contributing to society both high priorities for us.

I would be prepared to pay into a national health scheme 5% or 10% of my salary knowing that my contributions would benefit all Australians and keep the hospitals up with the latest equipment and highly trained staff rather than pay to scum, have run down hospitals and long waiting lists.

In other words, I see the government’s so called encouragement as a threat – get ripped off and make our mates rich or die and suffer – a sad reflection on Australia’s current priorities.

Well put Rob.
We havent paid private health since....erhhhh. well its been ages. ( 20 odd years)
Id like to thank all of yous who have been paying, you have helped keep our public hostibals free of the rich scum.

Al :)

[Gingermick]

If you get taken to hospital in an ambulance do NOT mention you you have private insurance. It will cost you heaps. Go public and it is all free..

Last time (and first time) I was in an ambulance they took me 200m and it cost me nearly $1000. They have changed the system now so that we all pay on our power bills, but were unable to hire any more staff of pay them more.

[ozwinner]

Last time (and first time) They have changed the system now so that we all pay on our power bills, but were unable to hire any more staff of pay them more.

As Pauleine says.
Please Explaine?

Al :confused:

[anthonyd]

savage,

Fair enough - but what if it had been a hit and run? No green slip involved there since the owner of the greenslip is not around.

There are also many other examples of accidents. What I was getting at was that the private care is not only for the sickly - even us able bodied persons can and do get injured, whether by others or by our own stupidity!

[rick_rine]

There are some good arguments here for private insurance and it makes you think but I have never had it . My wife just had a baby as most of you know and we could not complain about any service we had . Visits to midwives , obstatritians , an emergency C-Section at 3 A.M. Sunday morning , home visits by specialist nurses , the list goes on .
Cost us zilch , nothing , not one cent . Oh the G.P. visits cost us $15 each time , might as well say nothing .
Thank ourselves for our 1.5% additional tax for medicare . Great system .
Having said that , after reading some of these posts I can see advantages in private insurance .
Regards
Rick

[kiwigeo]

Not paying for health insurance and relying on invested money to pay your hospital bills is a big gamble. Ok if you're young but once youre past 40 I wouldnt even consider it....not worth the risk to have something major happen shortly after you invest the money. $20,000 sounds like a lot of money but spend a few years fighting cancer and you'll soon chew it up.

One problem with the private health system is that there is too much government meddling in the sector and private health insurance companies aren't allowed to function properly....it's the same old scenario where the govenment gets involved with any service supplied by the private sector (eg. most utilities in most states now), it ends up more expensive than it should be.

Private health insurance is not cheap but I want to be able to choose my sepcialist and hospital and I want things fixed straight away and I'm willing to pay for the privledge.

[Sturdee]

savage,

Fair enough - but what if it had been a hit and run? No green slip involved there since the owner of the greenslip is not around.


In the case of a hit and run accident the compulsory third party insurance scheme still covers it. Victims of hit and run are covered under the scheme.

So this example is irrelevant to private health insurance. In fact, at least in Victoria, your private health insurance does not cover motor vehicle accidents.


Peter.

[graemet]

Hospital insurance is a must but the extras are a ripoff. I've had over $25k in medical bills in the last year, the hospital stuff was fully covered by the fund, the doctors bills were mostly covered by the Medicare safety net. If I had the extras cover (@ $1200+ a year) I could have claimed another $16!!!!
Cheers
Graeme

[Auld Bassoon]

G'day Wongo!

Late last year I had a big scare - internal heamorraging, lots of blood loss, almost fell off my perch. The point I'm getting to is that without private hospital cover, that little episode would have cost me rather more than $12,000, plus numerous ongoing costs.

As it is, my personal costs, apart from the premiums, are less than $400. For less than $1,000 p.a. (just me), well. it's got my vote!

Cheers!

[Sturdee]

This is one of those subjects where there is no right or wrong answer as each have different expectations and needs.

We haven't had it since the original medibank came in. If it was good enough for the then Prime Minister and Treasurer it is good enough for me :D and a lot cheaper.

Like others my wife has diabetes, she is and has been under regular doctors and specialists care for well over 20 years. In that time she has had a number of urgent hospital treatments and in each case she has been looked after quickly and efficiently by the public hospitals concerned and was under the care of her own specialist who were attached to those public hospitals.

About 18 months ago she got regular eyebleeds and needed 4 eye operations at the Eye and Ear, a public hospital, and again she was looked after by expert surgeons, collegues of her referring specialist, who looked after her with care and understanding.

The only difference between privately insured patients and public patients at that hospital and in that field was that private patients had to pay substantial sums for the same care and treatment.

Personally I think the argument of choosing your own specialist as a private patient is a bit thin when the field is such that the only hospital suitable is a public hospital and the number of specialist in that field is such that there are only a small number, who you would not know personally in any case. Usually they are suggested to you by your GP, and he selects the chosen specialist from a list, often without knowing them personally.

Our doctor bulkbills us without any co-payment, my wife's specialists all bulkbills except for one that charges a $ 10 co- payment fee and ambulance is free with my health care card.

So for me Medicare is fine, but for others it may not be. But why pay for private insurance and then when you make a major claim you are out of pocket for thousands in meeting the shortfall.


Peter

[savage]

savage,

Fair enough - but what if it had been a hit and run? No green slip involved there since the owner of the greenslip is not around.

There are also many other examples of accidents. What I was getting at was that the private care is not only for the sickly - even us able bodied persons can and do get injured, whether by others or by our own stupidity!

Yes I see your point and agree, but a H&R MVA would be taken to the nearest emergency room and treated for injuries regardless. My family paid top premium for as long as I can remember, when I started work I joined and when I got married I expanded our membership to cover both of us, later 3 kids. We dropped out 4-5yrs ago as we felt ripped off and always ended up out of pocket with the "gap", now we only wait for elective surgery, I had a gall bladder removal 2yrs ago and paid for the first consultation and my bed in a private hospital (1) night the rest was taken care of by Medicare, so I was out of pocket the same as if I was in a fund!!..:confused: still have'nt worked that out, but not complaining!...:) everybodies case is different (medically speaking), and it all comes down to affordabillity, and preferance, but "private" is not what it used to be, single bed ward. Last time I went private in the fund I was in a multi bed ward, no different to public:confused: ....
savage(Eric):)

[Robert WA]

Hip replacement in 2003. Private hospital, private room, my choice of surgeon, no waiting list, all the bells and whistles including physio. Cost to me $200.

I would not be without private health cover.

That exercise alone probably saved me at least 5 years of premiums.

Rob.

[savage]

Man! the system really is screwed up!....I got a headache I think I'll go to hospital instead of my G.P. and clog the system up a bit more, there in lies part of the problem, too many people go to the emergency room with minor ailments that could be remdied by the local G.P. freeing up emergency rooms for exactly that and take pressure off the congestion in at least that part of the system!

savage(Eric)

[boban]

I cant see why we just dont do away with private health funds altogether or just let them stand on their own feet. No 30% rebate, nothing. I think I pay enough tax to cover my hospital bills. If my taxes also pay for the less well off then that makes me feel even better.

Why should I be forced to pay for private cover. It stinks, I cant win. If I dont pay a fat cat, then I get slugged by the ATO. We are lucky to have the system we have and it should be made even better. I'd rather pay an extra 1% on my taxable income to ensure the health system looks after all Australians. Not that I think its necessary given the surplus budgets.

What about the 100 million or whatever the real figure is, the government is spending on propaganda at the moment. That should be spent elsewhere.

If we end up with an American system (which is where we are headed) watch the gap between rich and poor open up even further.

Another thing, why should I subsidise health care for the 50 plus adults who want a private room etc. It never failed to amaze me that some of my mate's wives insisted on private health insurance before they got pregnant. for?

OK off my box now.

[kiwigeo]

Another thing, why should I subsidise health care for the 50 plus adults who want a private room etc. It never failed to amaze me that some of my mate's wives insisted on private health insurance before they got pregnant. for?



In a few years time when your body starts falling apart it'll be your children saying the same thing about you as you sit in your private room burning their tax dollars.

Unfortunately health care costs go up as you get older.....the older proportion of the population needs more health care dollars than the young people.

The great thing though is everyone gets a turn being the young person doing the subsidising and the oldie receiving same. Seems like a fair enough deal to me.

[zathras]

I had private health cover for about 15 years up till about 6 months before Bonsai (Little Bush) played his usual scare card by trying to force punters into private health. (do the anti terror laws allow him to be locked up for an indeterminate time ???)

At the time that I cancelled the cover I deliberated for quite some time, do I?, don't I? At the time finances were tight and we simply could no longer afford to shell out $1000's each year on what was really a luxury item. (The haves and have nots)
My decision was I would rejoin in the future when our financial situation got better.

When "the best man to lead the country" then comes along 6 months later and pushes a carrot in front of everybodies face I was immediately on the back foot, and have been ever since.

The biggest problem the way I see it is my taxes are being used to prop up some inefficient private health fund. I have never bemoaned Medicare as it has to be the fairest way of achieving a balanced result.

These private health funds are usually headed by some fatcat and his cronies. I really do object to the 30% rebate as where do you think that money is really going to? Health services? yeah right. Fatcat's salary more like it, or even worse a shareholder divedend :mad:

Put the 30% rebate towards public hospitals and fix them properly.
Taxes are for the public's general good, not for a guaranteed re-distribution into a private industry, no tender required.

The penalty rates to join after the age of 30 are now an active disencentive to rejoin a private fund. As I said 15 years prior cover accounts for zilch if one needed to span a few years out of the private system after Little Johnny introduced his over 30 penalties.

Gee I hate that %**(&, When's the next election?

[PhilMcCrackin]

The big problem with today is that we can do so much more than yesterday in terms of helping and fixing health problems. It seems the older we get the more we are able to do to keep us going. This costs a lot of money. Much more money than it cost yesterday or last week or 10 years ago.

Our society is so focused on keeping people alive and well than we should perhaps be. I am not suggesting killing people off or let them suffer but it is well known that those last ten years of your life really cost the community lots and lots and lots of money. Your health dollars!

Legal issues/concerns often prevent doctors from keeping people just comfortable. TREAT TREAT TREAT - the biomedical model.

And those that think "well why pay when you can get it for free" are just plain selfish! Every time you do that, the waiting list/time just gets longer and longer for those who must choose the public system. Especailly those who do not have immediate life threatening problems but ailments that cause ongoing pain and suffering. In downtown Nambour Hospital (Queensland), it takes up to two years on the waiting list to get your first appointment to be on the waiting list to get your problem sorted out! This is the truth. And this is the way our governments cover the truth. Sure your on the waiting list for three months for your surgery (offically) but it takes two years on the waiting list to get there. So next time your in a public hospital covering your private health insurance card to save a few bucks......... shame shame shame on you!

[Wongo]

This is what I think

Let’s say both my wife and I are to live for another 40 years and we are paying $200 monthly. That is $96,000 before we both die. Is it enough? We don’t know. However, they money can work for me especially when we are paying off the mortgage.

A lot can happen in 40 years. Things can happen today, tomorrow or never. After all it is a risk but it is a small risk I can afford to take.

Personally I don’t particularly like the “what if you hit by a bus tomorrow” argument. It is unfair and is commonly used by life insurance sales reps.

[silentC]

It is unfair
Life is unfair, mate. You never know what's around the corner.

All I know is that when I put my little girl on an air ambulance at 4:30am one morning and I didn't know what was going to happen, the last thing I was thinking about was the $120 a month we pay to the health fund. And when my wife arrived in Sydney and they told her she could be admitted as a public patient or private, which did she want, she asked "what's the difference". The difference was personal attention from the best renal surgeon in the country, and a room with a dedicated nurse, the decision was real easy...

The last time I was in hospital was over 10 years ago when I fell rock climbing and broke my heel. I went public all the way and the only thing not covered was the steel plate they put in, which was paid for by the health fund. About $700, which at the time was about 2 year's premium for me.

Both our kids were born in St George Private Hospital. If you want the best obstetrician in the country (Dr O'Connor), then that's where you have to go. My wife would have kept her knees together until he got there because until she met him, every other specialist, the ones that her GP sent her to, told her she'd never have children. A friend told her about Dr O'Connor and the rest, as they say, is history.

We'll keep paying it, definitely while the kids are in our care. After that, well, we'll see.

[Waldo]

G'day Wongo,

Again I agree. But now you bought up another point I'd like to throw in the mix. I have life insurance for the usual, but it also pays out when I'm 45 and when it does I'll start another.

When I started my life insurance when I was a young bloke I always wondered what I'll be doing when I'm 45 since the work I do is very volitile - advertising, and it gives me some piece of mind knowing it can do a number of things for us.

[Wongo]

Let me make it clear. If something happens to my wife or my little girl today. They will get on an ambulance, go straight to the hospital and see doctor at all cost. I will do whatever I can to pay the cost.

Just wanted to point out that we are not here to discuss how much we love our family. This thread has got nothing to do with health.

I am gambling on $$$$ but not their health. Dont get confussed.

[silentC]

I suppose that begs the question: can you be a private patient without a health fund? I admit I don't know. I always assumed health fund = private, no health fund = public. They always ask you what your fund is. If I said "I don't have one, just send me the bill" what would happen?

I believe that in the US they wont accept you at some hospitals if you don't have a health fund. Maybe it's not like that here yet.

[Wongo]

I suppose that begs the question: can you be a private patient without a health fund?

Same here but then what is the difference.

If you go “Here is $10,000 for the cost mate!” so what are they going to do? They still get the money, it does not matter if it is from my bank account or private healthcare.

[Wongo]

I believe that in the US they wont accept you at some hospitals if you don't have a health fund

That sucks

[silentC]

Same here but then what is the difference.

If you go “Here is $10,000 for the cost mate!” so what are they going to do? They still get the money, it does not matter if it is from my bank account or private healthcare.
That's the bit I don't know. Would you have access to private health care if you weren't in a fund. That's what I'm unclear on. If we fronted up to Randwick Children's Hospital without a health fund, would we even have had the 'private' option, or would we have had to take our chances with the duty roster?

[shrek]

I have worked in public hospitals for 18 years, currently managing a department in a hospital that has both public and private on the one campus.


Private Insurance - What other business group in Australia is propped up by a tax payer funded allowance. (I guess they have to get something for their money. Sydney Morning Herald states that combined health fund donations to the federal liberal party for 03/04 were in the vicinity of $460,000.00)

Our private hospital has to negotiate a contract with each health fund which sets out the amount the fund will pay for each service. We then have to negotiate with each surgeon as to the amount they will charge. The word negotiate is used loosely here as, du to a shortage of surgeons in the country, they can charge what they want. Guess who then has to pay the difference.

Trouble is, if you don't have any private insurance, and you have an accident that isn't life threatening, your in trouble. O.K., you might need a new knee because you are in constant pain and cant leave the house, but you wont die from it, so you can wait 2 years on the public list. 2 years is a long time if you are living in pain.

Public system - Great, if you are about to die. Still a lot of fat cats making big money. In our Emergency Department we employ casual doctors to cover the roster. All expenses are met by the hospital except the doctors private indemnity insurance, but we still have to pay them $210.00 per hour. Great money if you can get it. My biggest concern is the public hospital system only just manages to cope when everything is running smoothly. If we have a major disaster or disease outbreak, the system will definitely not cope.

I could go on about this topic for hours, and tell you stories that would make your hair stand on its end, but unfortunately I have work to do.

[shrek]

That's the bit I don't know. Would you have access to private health care if you weren't in a fund. That's what I'm unclear on. If we fronted up to Randwick Children's Hospital without a health fund, would we even have had the 'private' option, or would we have had to take our chances with the duty roster?

At the hospital I work at we will develop an approximate figure for what service you are being provided with and you need to pay this up front before we will look at you

[silentC]

Before you go back back into the breach, can you answer this one: "Would you have access to private health care if you weren't in a fund."

If Wongo fronted up to a private hospital with a bag full of money, would they turn him away because he's not in a fund, or would they take his money?

[silentC]

OK, so they will take uninsured patients but they have to pay in advance...

[shrek]

Before you go back back into the breach, can you answer this one: "Would you have access to private health care if you weren't in a fund."

If Wongo fronted up to a private hospital with a bag full of money, would they turn him away because he's not in a fund, or would they take his money?

As I said earlier they work out an approximate of how much you will cost and then you need to pay this up front. This happens quite often, especially with people from country areas. One of the areas I manage is security and I often get called to count money and lock it in my safe. It amazes me when you get a famer in and he pulls out a huge wad of notes from his pocket to cover the bill. It always seems to be farmers for some reason

[silentC]

What other business group in Australia is propped up by a tax payer funded allowance.


It always seems to be farmers for some reason

;)

[Wongo]

Just spoke to a few older (wiser) workmates in the office.

And the conclusion was “$$ is $$. Why would they discriminate?”

[silentC]

It's not a matter of whether they would discriminate, it's a matter of whether they are allowed to do it. But Shrek has answered that, some private hospitals ask you to pay up front. They will take your money but they wont give you credit. I don't know whether that applies to all of them. I still don't know whether or not we could have been 'private' patients at the Children's Hospital if we didn't have a health fund.

All I'm trying to get at is that maybe you have more options with a health fund (maybe you don't, I'm not sure) and for me, that makes it worth paying. The whole system is probably corrupt but we can't control that and all I want is what is best for the family. If there's absolutely no value in being in a private fund, then I suppose it makes me a fool who is easily parted from his money.

[PhilMcCrackin]

All expenses are met by the hospital except the doctors private indemnity insurance, but we still have to pay them $210.00 per hour. Great money if you can get it.

You can't be serious........ Before you start doctor bashing, Do you have any idea how much medical indemnity insurance costs? Do you have any idea how much time a doctor spends studying so he/she can provide you with the best possible care? Do you realise medical secretaries demand more money than a registered nurse is paid? Do you have any idea how much commercial rent costs for medical rooms?

Mate take a walk in the doctors carpark sometime....... The private hospital I work at has clapped out Magnas, astras, commodores and other non luxury cars. Yet if you look at the hospital administrators carpark (and lawyers and accountants and health fund directors) there are Mercedes and BMW's as far as the eye can see. Docotors are not soaking up your health dollars. Don't be fooled. A bed in a private hospital is up around the $1000 - $2000 bucks per day (thats just for the bed) and papers and phone calls are extra.

[silentC]

True. The wife's gyno has rooms in Kogarah with one full time and three part time secretaries. He told her his last indemnity policy was $100,000. That was 4 years ago when our son was born, god knows what he pays now.

In addition to that he is perpetually on call, which means he can't even have more than a glass of wine with dinner. Babies have an uncanny habit of coming along whenever they feel like it. He gets away once a year for a month on secondment as an army doctor to lovely places like Bouganville and East Timor.

Then he goes off around the country doing women's health clinics for indigenous women. He looks after drug dependant women free of charge, even though they rip him off as soon as he leaves the room.

Add to that he is single-handedly responsible for the existence of our two kids (OK, I played my part in it but that was the easy bit, oh and let's not forget the missus :D ).

Nah, I don't begrudge him the money he gets and I wouldn't want his job and lifestyle for all the money in the world.

Then there's Dr Morton at the local hospital. He saved my sister's life when she almost died in childbirth and he diagnosed the problem with our daughter - as far as we're concerned he saved her life too. He does his consultations in the morning, comes up to the hospital to see his patients there at lunchtime, does his day surgery, then back to the medical centre for more consultations, then up to the hospital again in the evening. When we're sitting down to eat dinner, he's still up there. When we were in the Children's Hospital, he rang every day to check on progress. I don't know what he gets paid but he's worth every cent of it if not more. I wouldn't want his job either.

[shrek]

[QUOTE=PhilMcCrackin]You can't be serious........ Before you start doctor bashing, Do you have any idea how much medical indemnity insurance costs? Do you have any idea how much time a doctor spends studying so he/she can provide you with the best possible care? Do you realise medical secretaries demand more money than a registered nurse is paid? Do you have any idea how much commercial rent costs for medical rooms? QUOTE]

I'm talking about casual medical officers working in the emergency department.

As they are working in the E.D. the hospital is picking up the majority of any costs associated with insurance while they are here.
Myself, and I'm sure many others, have worked very hard and spent a lot of time stydying to get the experience and qualifications that I have, but I still don't get paid $210.00 per hour
While Doctors are working in the E.D. they dont need secretaries or nurses, the hospital provides them nor do they have to pay rent.
For the purpose of this exercise I just did a walk through the doctors car park. Admittedly there were a couple of commodores and falcons. There was also 1 x peogot, 1 x Honda integra, 2 x BMW, 1 x Jaguar XJR, 2 x Mercedes, 1 x Lexus and 1 x Bentley.

[Wongo]

Go and scratch the BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes and Lexus for me. :D

[Sturdee]

At the hospital I work at we will develop an approximate figure for what service you are being provided with and you need to pay this up front before we will look at you


At the Eye and Ear, at the same time my wife was admitted for one of her operations, another woman, being a private patient, had to pay the $ 250 shortfall gap on the hospital room charge before being admitted. This was in addition for all the gap charges for the same operation.

Funny thing was she was lying next to my wife on the same 6 bed ward.


Peter.

[Jack E]

So let me get this straight, if you pay for medicare, as we all do without choice, and you pay for private, you can't use the public system up to the same point as everybody else and then let the private cover kick in?

Jack

[Sturdee]

Jack,

If you go to a public hospital and mention that you have private health cover you are treated as a private patient. That means you pay the shortfall on rooms and the shortfall on your mediical care same as if you are in a private hospital.

However if you don't admit to having private cover you pay nothing for the same treatment.


Peter.

[Studley 2436]

Sturdee has just pointed out one of the problems with the system we have. It stinks to my mind. Why should you penalised for contributing more to the system? That is you have your medicare levy and then pay more for private health you shouldn't be penalised for that.


One other great problem is bulk billing. If there is no charge to people using something you will inevitably get overuse. When there is no charge what you get is a queu. If you had to pay money there would be less in line but people would complain they have a right to everything the health system can offer.

Were there no bulk billing there would be much more value in private health insurance. Poor people without money for insurance can be provided for via the welfare system. It isn't working trying to provide for them via the health system.

Studley

[Jack E]

However if you don't admit to having private cover you pay nothing for the same treatment.
Right then, it looks like my private health care card is coming out of the wallet and staying at home until I need elective treatment.

For me it is a hell of a lot cheaper to pay for private insurance than to pay the extra levy's I would have to pay the tax man.

But be damned if I am not going to use the medicare system which I contribute quite a bit of money to.

Cheers, Jack

[kiwigeo]

But be damned if I am not going to use the medicare system which I contribute quite a bit of money to.

Cheers, Jack

Jack,

Wait untill youve spent 12 months on a waiting list for elective surgery for a bad back.....then you'll wish you had kept your private cover.

Agreed the whole system is stuffed but at the end of the day I dont want to end up in a situation like the one Ive just described above and I'm willing to pay the loot so I can get any serious ailments fixed pronto....I just cant afford to be sitting around out of work for 12 months.

Your choice but like any form of insurance its all about beating the odds.

Cheers Martin

[Daddles]

Health Insurance - you are betting them that you are going to get really sick, they're betting you that you won't ... and you are hoping THEY win :rolleyes:

Richard

[Gingermick]

As Pauleine says.
Please Explaine?

Al :confused:

A couple of years ago our Esteemed Premier introduced a scheme to pay for the ailing ambulance system. Subscriptions weren't working so we now pay a little with our power bills. the bloody idiot keeps blaming lack of funds for poor hospitals and overworked paramedics. Wouldn't have anything to do with the 64 tier bureaucracy.
He now wants to means test public patients. How many extra bloody staff will you need to do that?

[Waldo]

G'day Gingermick,

I remember that. Talk about double dipping. Those who have paid the ambulance membership are also forced to pay a second time with their power bills, also remember those who refuse to pay the tax component of their power bill.

Beatie like all other Labor premiers in QLd is an idiot.

(get the Sunday Mail each week to keep up to speed with the news from home)

[Gingermick]

You can't subscribe to the ambulance anymore, we all pay for it on our power bills. This, according to some, gives them the right to call for an ambulance to take them to hospital for a runny nose or sore arm or leg.

BTW I vote we abolish the states. get rid of the tripling of bureaucrats. Thats where all the money goes, not doctors or nurses. Goes to run gov departments.
While we're at it, let's get rid of the Fed gov as well and run the place ourselves.:D

[shrek]

BTW I vote we abolish the states. get rid of the tripling of bureaucrats. Thats where all the money goes, not doctors or nurses. Goes to run gov departments.
While we're at it, let's get rid of the Fed gov as well and run the place ourselves.:D

Be careful, under Johnny's new anti terror laws, you could end up in jail for writing that.

[silentC]

What about dental, optical etc? Those are not covered by Medicare (as far as I know). Our health fund pays for two new pairs of specs every year and we have dental cover. They also cover for other things like physio and chiropractic.

On the public/private choice as admission, my wife was asked to specify if she wanted private or public for our daughter. I don't know if that's what they are supposed to do or not but they gave her the choice.

[bitingmidge]

Be careful, under Johnny's new anti terror laws, you could end up in jail for writing that.

Now see, that's the sort of outrageous mis-reporting and gross exaggeration that starts out as a joke and spreads maliciously through the country until we believe it to be fact.

You ought to be shot for writing that.

In fact, under Johnny's new anti terror laws, you could be!

cheers,

P
:D :D :D

[shrek]

Now see, that's the sort of outrageous mis-reporting and gross exaggeration that starts out as a joke and spreads maliciously through the country until we believe it to be fact.

I'm only repeating what I read in the papers. They wouldn't tell lies or exaggerate the truth, would they?

[Jack E]

Wait untill youve spent 12 months on a waiting list for elective surgery for a bad back.....then you'll wish you had kept your private cover.
Don't worry, I will be keeping the private cover.
I will just be keeping it quiet until it benefits me more than the public system, then I will whip out the card and live it up in crappy hospital luxury ;)

Cheers, Jack

[MathewA]

[QUOTE=DavidG]Always been insured but I think I have paid in more than I have received/QUOTE]

Everyone has - you don't think the insurance companies do this cause they care about you do you. They make trillions in profits.

[Wongo]

you don't think the insurance companies do this cause they care about you do you.

Of course they do. 8 years ago a life insurance company called me at work (still don’t know how they got my number). In less then 5 minutes, he convinced me that I would die as soon as I walked out of the office.

“What if you get hit by a car tonight Mr Wong?” he said

“Would you come to my funeral?” said Mr Wong.

End of the conversation. :cool: