building in speakers

[Trav]

Not exactly woodwork or home reno, but...

I am in the process of renovating my house and finally establishing a decent home for my stereo and home theatre setup.

I have one long wall (6m approx) in my lounge room that features a dirty big brick fireplace (2.7m wide) halfway along. As it is not practical to take the fireplace out, but I don't want to use it, I have closed off the chimney in the roof, waterproofed it thoroughly and then clad the whole bang lot with plasterboard. I plan to hang a plasma (if I ever get one :D )in the middle of this fireplace wall. Hopefully I will post a picture soon.

I also want to recess my centre speaker and two floor standing front speakers into the wall that I built.

What I want to know is that will the sound be affected by this? Do they need to sit in open space? Any tips for improving the sound during this process?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Trav100

[John Wilson]

Mate, me again.

You certainly could build the speakers into the wall and the sound would not be significantly different. "Real" sound engineers would tell you that the speaker placement is one of the most important issues to consider.

I would also be interested to know how you would finish the front of the speaker. Most have they own grills which are acostically transparent. And it might be hard to 'wall mount the current floor mounted versions.

Have a look at 'Wall speakers' to see how they do them for some ideas. The ones I have had a look at use a paintable grill. Nice look on a modern wall.

I have bought from this place. http://www.hometech.com/audio/cvsoprano.html

But you can get some decent prices in OZ shopping around. Tricky Dick and JB Hifi all stock them.

http://www.hometech.com/audio/cv-iw601.jpg

[Trav]

Thanks John

I was hoping to jsut build in an appropriately sized cavity for each speaker - keeping it snug the whole way around. I didn't want to go with the wall mounted idea such as the one you have there as I already have a nice set of surround speakers, plus two sizeable floorstanders.

I am tossing up on the idea of making the holes really snug so that the front of the speakers is simply visible (but the back and sides are not) or making the holes a little bigger and adding a new acoustically transparent cover. Not sure at this point.

Any ideas are welcome!

Trav

[jon_e]

Trav,

to be honest, i wouldnt use your existing speakers mounted into a wall cavity. the main reason for this is that well designed 'standard' speakers (such as you may already have) gain a lot of their acoustic tone (in particular bass response) from the deflected sound from what is behind the speaker itself.

dedicated in-wall mounted speakers compensate for this (and other issues) with different driver charcateristics and other methods, to reproduce the effects of good cabinet design.

you may find this article an interesting read:
http://www.cinemasource.com/articles/in_wall_speakers.pdf

hth
j

[Trav]

Thanks jon

I was hoping that this wasn;t the case. I am kind of stuck though as the speakers are nearly new, and there is nowhere else to put them. Perhaps I will give them a whirl and if it doesn't work out, I will go to plan B. And think of a plan B!
Trav

[gsouth]

Are they ported speakers - and if so where is the port - front or back?

Have seen many a speaker mounted in the wall (just normal floor standing speakers) - I remember reading something somewhere about watching how flush you make the speaker as it has an impact on the performance. Many of the newer floor standing speakers have gone to narrow boxes for specific sound qualities - making them sit flush in a wall defeats this design.

As you said - if you can afford the time - suck it and see

[Trav]

Porting is in the front - which is a bonus. I think I will build a box for them and simply sit them where I am proposing to build them in and see how they sound.

Trav

[savage]

G'Day Trav,

I've made several speaker/sub boxes in single and muliple configurations, my latest efforts consist of a dual sub fitted to the boot behind the rear seat in a VS Commodor for a young friend of mine. And a set of older Marantz speakers from an old stereo system combined with a set I made years ago both worked well but I wanted to combine both for my home theater setup, I can't give you a pic of the dual sub but as for theater speakers I'll post some for you later tonight. They are easy to make, just search on the internet for home made speakers and theirs lots out there. Mine have a 3"x10" horn mid-range tweeter, a cone 2 1/2" tweeter, a 2 1/2" super tweeter, a 3" mid-range cone, a 10" sub and a 12" sub, all of these are wired to 2 three way cross-overs with 7mtrs of Monster cable and sealed and insulated, all in the one carcass and they perform very, very well. I've only driven them to half volume as things started to fall off cupboards and the like so I didn't want to break anything of SWMBO's stuff. And still crystal clear, my favourite DVD is the opening scene from "Saving Private Ryan", your ducking for cover, Ha!Ha!..
savage(Eric):)

[savage]

Trav here are the pic's hope they give you some ideas!...:)

savage(Eric):) .

[doug1]

Hi

I see you said you waned to go plasma, have you thought about projection instead, possibly cheaper, can be bigger

just a thought

[Barry_White]

Hi

I see you said you waned to go plasma, have you thought about projection instead, possibly cheaper, can be bigger

just a thought

Yea something like this. http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=11303

[Trav]

Wow Bazza. That is awesome mate.

Are you happy with it now? I presume you are getting good use from it. Has it lived up to expectations? And can you give a rough idea of the final cost? Would be an electronics noob be a big impediment?

I think I will stick with the plasma idea for the moment - simply because of the fact that it is easier and simpler to use - especially for SWMBO. But a projector sounds like a pretty cool project and could easily complement my home theatre system.

Thanks for the idea.

Trav

[Barry_White]

Wow Bazza. That is awesome mate.

Are you happy with it now? I presume you are getting good use from it. Has it lived up to expectations? And can you give a rough idea of the final cost? Would be an electronics noob be a big impediment?

I think I will stick with the plasma idea for the moment - simply because of the fact that it is easier and simpler to use - especially for SWMBO. But a projector sounds like a pretty cool project and could easily complement my home theatre system.

Thanks for the idea.

Trav

Hi Trav.

The projector turned out to be everything that I hoped for. Watching cricket or football on it is awsome. The thing that makes everything work is the little AverTV Box 9 because rather than having to run it with a computer the little box converts all the various signals e.g. RF, AV, SVideo and Component into VGA signal that the LCD computer screen runs.

This is the little TV Box 9. http://www.avermedia.com/cgi-bin/products_tvtunerbox_avertvbox9.asp


This allows me to watch free to air TV, satelite TV, Video and DVD on the screen.

The result is much better than what it shows on a photo.

The total cost was about $1150.00 and this included $179.00 for the TV Box 9.

As far as an electronics noob goes this has been built by people that knew nothing about electronics or woodwork.

The Lumenlab forum has so much help on it is unbelievable which is only available to people who purchase the guide for $20.00 USD. The guide in itself will help you build it but the forum help is more valuable.

[seriph1]

hey Bazz ...... this little project of oyurs has floored me ...... the ideas spinning round my noodle will definietely stop me sleeping tonight! Bought my 1st projector in 94 for a couple of grand and had fun for about a day until I couldnt ignore the screen-door effect any longer....... then embarked on the quest for the perfect projected image. Needless to say my project didnt cost what yours did, but more importantly, I didnt ever get the results that "appear" to be achievable by the forum folks. This is an exciting development and as I had only ever seen fresnel lenses used badly, I didnt think twice about DIY projecting. You have completey changed my mind! So much so, I will sell my SONY and build one of these. have joined their forum, thanks - and will be getting the book along with as much info as I can find about using a native widescreen panel instead of a 4:3. Also, I am wondering if the unit was permanently mounted, could the fans be ducted and placed remote to the room so the noise wasnt a factor?

thanks

[seriph1]

BTW that set top box looks great as well! I just bought a Std Def STB and havent looked back - being in the country I need to supplement my aerial but that's not a big expense..... and unlike your good self, we here have around 2500 DVDs so doing this project should really pay happiness dividends!

[Barry_White]

Also, I am wondering if the unit was permanently mounted, could the fans be ducted and placed remote to the room so the noise wasnt a factor?

thanks

Steve

I have mine on a stand, but many on the Lumenlab forum have permanantly mounted them over head. If you have a look through the PLOG forum it shows how a lot of them mounted them and how they have built them.

Some have also ducted their fans but I really don't notice the fans especially with the surround sound although SWMBO goes crook about it being too loud I sometimes end up putting the earphones on when she goes to bed and I am sitting up late.

[seriph1]

thanks bazz - think this will be a LOT of fun - told the wife about it and even she sounded impressed. Am meeting up with a bunch of people tonight and it will certainly be a topic of conversation seeing theyre propeller heads.

:D:D:D:D:D love the net

[namtrak]

This is a timely thread for me - cool.

As part of our renos, I am hoping to check out some of the software systems (I dont know what they are called) which run on linux (there is a microsoft one) which manage all of your entertainment type stuff.

From what I have been told, we can run our Music, TV and DVD's all through the little box and then manage the locations where the sound is output. I am thinking we will have about 5 separate locations for sound output throughout the house. We will also be embedding speakers the way Trav is talking about so I am keen to see the outcome of that.

A lot more research for me yet though!!

Cheers

[seriph1]

namtrak you'll also need to be able to switch multiple inputs I believe. I saw a dapper little compnent for doing that last week when I picked up my Set Top Box. hantrex has it and it allows 7 different components to be fed through it....... Also, there are a number of Intelligent Home Automation systems available - all pretty funky. Hae a look for Intelligent House magazine or similar. (American of course) or Home Theatre Magazine. Finally, there is a chap I know from another forum who has created a complete HT who runs it all from a dedicated Home Theatre PC ..... very cool.


have fun!

[savage]

This is a timely thread for me - cool.

As part of our renos, I am hoping to check out some of the software systems (I dont know what they are called) which run on linux (there is a microsoft one) which manage all of your entertainment type stuff.

From what I have been told, we can run our Music, TV and DVD's all through the little box and then manage the locations where the sound is output. I am thinking we will have about 5 separate locations for sound output throughout the house. We will also be embedding speakers the way Trav is talking about so I am keen to see the outcome of that.

A lot more research for me yet though!!

Cheers

G'Day namtrak,
probably not what your looking for but just something else that's out their, an intercom system, when we bought this house it was already installed but carcked it recently, so we had a newer version of the same brand installed. If we wanted, we can run auto gate openers, CTV and a few other security gizmos, but the "piped" music and the ability to talk main-to-room or room-to-room is great as the wife and I have disabilities, and a 2 story home we don't have to run up and down stairs or yell at the top of our lungs to be heard over the music of the young ones (teens). The units are small and hardly noticable, the main unit, 5 room stations (we have 6) and a door station + choice of 9 chimes for $3,200. The best thing is you can answer the door from any station, great for nusiance callers, chops 'em on the spot!..:D
savage(Eric).:)

[Harry72]

Trav if your speakers are front ported the distance to rear wall behind the speaker will not be as critical if your going to run a sub with them, the lower bass response of the front speakers isnt needed with a sub... but it'll pay to run the sub in the same plane as the fronts, and a real sub at that... great woodwork project grab a 12" adire shiva and a Jaycar 350w plate amp build a 100lt+ box and port it accordingly(low tuning). It'll cost you $3K+ to buy the equivelent at a hifi shop...

[Petebass]

Trav as someone who has been designing loudspeakers for several years, I don't see any problems with your original plan. You say the speakers are front ported so that pretty much eliminates my biggest concern. A correctly designed speaker cabinet should be entirely self contained and any additional pannelling or walls should be irrelevent providing no sound or porting is being obstructed.

Another thing to consider is speaker position in relation to the characteristics of the way sound travels. In other words, make sure the speakers are firing towards the listener. Where possible, try to put the listener "on- axis". This can sometimes involve angling the side speakers inwards a little, something which could prove difficult with the "snug" fitting wall cavity you mentioned.

To explain, Frequencies below 100Hz radiate in a 180 degree pattern, but with a foreward bias when the speaker is placed in an enclosure. They happily roll along floors and walls and should be audible everywhere in the room (provided the room is not acoustically bad enough to cancel them out, but that's another discussion). However, mid and high frequencies tend to shoot in a beam not unlike a laser. The higher the frequency, the narrower the beam.

So a side speaker in a corner of a room with the speakers shooting perpendicular to the side wall will essentially deliver these frequencies to the back corner of the room instead of to the couch.

Personally I build all my speakers to look like furniture. That way there's no need to hide them. I find it's the best option because you can place them wherever you like, and angle them anywhere you like, without detracting from the appearance of the room. And because I built them myself, they's a great conversation piece.

[Exador]

This is a timely thread for me - cool.

As part of our renos, I am hoping to check out some of the software systems (I dont know what they are called) which run on linux (there is a microsoft one) which manage all of your entertainment type stuff.

Cheers

Don't know about the linux one, but XP Media Centre is OK if pretty much a PITA to configure. Once you've got it set up, though, it runs pretty seamlessly.