Why lockable chain window winder??

[Wongo]

Can a wiser person tell me the propose of a lock on a chain window winder?
When it is locked the window cannot be opened or closed. Why?


448091

[China]

So the baddies cam't get in

[Wongo]

That is what I do not understand. When the window is closed it cannot be opened from the outside whether there is a lock or not.

[A Duke]

Hi,
So that the ankle biters can not mess up the ventilation flow.
Regards

[Mr Brush]

We have that style of chain window winder with lock - I think you'll find it is possible to lever the windows open from the outside when not locked. It would require considerable leverage (e.g. a crowbar), but can be done, at least on the design we have.

[Chris Parks]

I have the same question as the winders they replaced did not have locks.

[Wongo]

Thanks

I have one in the house. I hate it because it is too easy to lock it accidentally and too hard to find the key.

[PJM16]

If left a little open, they can be pulled open, with effort. It's how I used to get into Mum and Dad's when I forgot my keys.

[Lappa]

After being robbed last year (window jimmied open) I had the choice of putting window locks on all windows or cop a large premium increase.
As I have winders at the back of the house and the bathroom, I asked the same question as the winders replacements for the bathroom cost a bomb and also meant I had to rebuild sections of the sill dressing!
The answer was that people like to leave winder windows partially open for air flow and a thief can get their hand in and wind the window fully open and get in at night when people are sleeping, You can lock the winders in a partially open position. My statement that they would have to be a very thin thief to squeeze in through the window even when it was fully opened was not well received.:no:

[Wongo]

Thanks. It makes sense now.

[Spyro]

I can't believe this is the best design they could think of for a cheap and practical window opening mechanism. It's terrible. Unless there is something better out there and we are the terrible house owners who select this one. But I'm guilty as well, I searched and this was all I could find, and I installed it, and I hate it with a passion LOL

[Wongo]

I have one in my house. The lock button is in the way so the winder gets locked accidentally all the time.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Terrible design, agreed.

But I can understand the market being driven by insurance. Sadly the insurers don't seem to look at actual effectiveness, just so long as the word "lockable" is involved.

eg. Quite a few years back I was living in a high-risk area, in an old house with old sash windows all 'round. I drilled through both sashes in each window and tapped for M4 bolts. These were solid, although I did need to keep a small shifter handy if I wanted to change the openings.

However, I couldn't get the house contents insured until I replaced them all with commercial pins, which served the same purpose.... sort of. Except that the pins were narrower, as the whole thing, body and all, fitted in the holes I'd made for the bolts. Worse, once I didn't align the sashes properly and bent the allegedly toughened pin by simply trying to push it in.

Still, even though these were in no way as strong as my original M4 bolts, the insurer was then happy to cover me.

I guess they feel we must give the bugglars a realistic chance to break in before they'll provide cover. :rolleyes:

[Lappa]

The windows in my bathroom are casement windows and the winders move a set of arms so the window can be locked in any position from closed to wide open (90o).
Actually not a bad system - better then the chain type.
The lock, however, is a joke! It’s a tiny pin that goes into the end of the handle but it meets the insurance criteria so if their happy, I’m happy.

[A Duke]

Hi,
Actually it,s all a joke as windows can be broken.
Or they could ram raid your house.
Regards

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Actually it,s all a joke as windows can be broken.
Or they could ram raid your house.

It's often easier and less conspicuous to come in through the roof, if tiled. DAMHIKT. :-

[Lappa]

Hi,
Actually it,s all a joke as windows can be broken.
Or they could ram raid your house.
Regards

You would have to be one heavy sleeper to sleep through a ramraid on your house:D

[Beardy]

The main reason is that insurance companies want you to have locks on all openings to insure you.

From a marketing point of view you can leave your window partially open and you still can’t put your hand in and wind it out far enough to disengage the chain from the sash to gain full access

Like all locks they only keep the honest people out

[ian]

Can a wiser person tell me the propose of a lock on a chain window winder?
When it is locked the window cannot be opened or closed. Why?

448091
there's also a (BCA?) requirement that windows with a drop greater than a certain distance be lockable so that ankle biters and bigger can't open the window and fall out.

[Beardy]

there's also a (BCA?) requirement that windows with a drop greater than a certain distance be lockable so that ankle biters and bigger can't open the window and fall out.

Not quite right, the BCA requirement is that the openings on the windows are permanently restricted to open a maximum of 90 or 110mm if the fall distance is greater than 3.4 m from memory. There is no requirement for them to be able to be locked, just a restriction on how far they open
The newer chain winders have a restriction option on the back of them that you can activate

[ian]

Not quite right, the BCA requirement is that the openings on the windows are permanently restricted to open a maximum of 90 or 110mm if the fall distance is greater than 3.4 m from memory. There is no requirement for them to be able to be locked, just a restriction on how far they open
The newer chain winders have a restriction option on the back of them that you can activate
OK
Lately I've been looking at older residential flat buildings -- most have been retro-fitted with window locks that restrict how far a window can be opened.

[Beardy]

OK
Lately I've been looking at older residential flat buildings -- most have been retro-fitted with window locks that restrict how far a window can be opened.

Yes I did a couple last week, I just Googled up a video that shows you what I mean, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfpi7hO63Sc
Some are like in the video and there are others that have a little rubber stopper you fit in a similar manner.
I haven’t used the non locking ones as they have never been asked for but I would say they work exactly the same

[Wongo]

My neighbors have same brand of winders but 10 years newer than mine. The interesting thing is my keys can unlock theirs and their keys can unlock mine. They are identical.

Just another log to the fire.

[malb]

The chain winders are not particularly secure if left moderately ajar for ventilation, lock or no lock. With a opening of about 70mm, baddies wandering around with a 200mm shifter can get a grip on the chain and twist it breaking the chain. Know this cause we were robbed that way in 86. To appease insurance co, we installed keyed locks on all windows, some keyed bolts, some keyed winders. Thieves come back 5 weeks later (enough time for insurance to pay out) and tried again, couldn't open any windows, so they put the shifter through one instead. Didn't get anything the second time because we hadn't replaced the stuff they took the first time.

[malb]

My neighbors have same brand of winders but 10 years newer than mine. The interesting thing is my keys can unlock theirs and their keys can unlock mine. They are identical.



Typical common locks have 5 pins or disks inside and each can have 5 or 6 possible key depths. About 25-30 possible combinations overall, so its isn't uncommon for them to be interchangable between properties, except when you are in the store needing to buy multiples and there are 10 units on the shelf and each has a different combination. Also these days some window manufacturers bulk order all their locks etc as the same random combination to facilitate same keying and avoid the problem I just identified. So if they supply windows for a strip of houses in the street built at the same time by the same builder, chances are the window locks along the strip will have matching keys.