Pool deck

[groeneaj]

G’day forum,

The house that we bought came with a pool. The first few years I maintained it well, but the last year and a bit I had an absolute gut full of the thing. The pump started to play up amongst other issues. I was close to getting it filled in but decided to keep it, especially with my 18 month old at the age where she will really enjoy it.

I’ve sorted out a new pump, acid wash clean etc so the pool will look really nice, but I’d like to do something with the pool surround. I don’t like the pavers that are there at the moment, they are uneven and require regular high pressure cleaning to make them look half decent. I spent quite a bit of time a while back fixing some of the pavers and making them level, but it really needs to be done all over.

My initial idea was to rip them up, paint them in a paving paint and lay them down randomly with pebbles in between. Then I thought about a deck around the pool. It seems like it wouldn’t be all that difficult and I could do it myself. I may even use composite jarrah decking so maintenance is a breeze.

Any way, I have a few questions as I’ve never done this sort of thing before.

I was going to rip up the pavers, build a frame with 450mm on centre joists then lay the deck. Does it really matter which way the deck is running? And would I need to slope it away from the pool?

And do you think it’s a feasible job for one person? I have a tendency to under estimate projects.

[Wongo]

Andy, I am confident that you can do It yourself and you will do it well. It will take a little while but you can do it. Modwood is a good choice too.

[groeneaj]

Here is a pic of the pool.

Would the frame and joists need to be set in concrete or would I need something like a deck block? Or will it be rigid enough once all screwed together?

Just trying to work out if I’m out of my league here.

440988


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[groeneaj]

Andy, I am confident that you can do It yourself and you will do it well. It will take a little while but you can do it. Modwood is a good choice too.

Thanks mate, I’ll check modwood out.

[Pac man]

If anyone can start something and finish it well it’s you.
Id suggest that RWbuild can give you some tips.

My experiences at work suggest that having a plan to keep the pool gate/ fence secure with little ones around would be important

[groeneaj]

If anyone can start something and finish it well it’s you.
Id suggest that RWbuild can give you some tips.

My experiences at work suggest that having a plan to keep the pool gate/ fence secure with little ones around would be important

Thanks Paul. I won’t be doing anything to the pool fence/gate, it’s just removing the pavers and putting a deck in place.

[FenceFurniture]

Just thinking through the process that I did when I built my shed deck. I started with concrete pads about 350x350, which are about 100mm high, but also have a "belly" going down into the ground perhaps 60-80mm. They have some reo steel in them. I got them as close as I could to the correct height and then just adjusted with "packers" which are in different thicknesses 1.5, 3, 5, 8 mm (you can buy a mixed box for not much).

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=359993&d=1442654716

They are at 1500 centres. Bearers (4x3 hardwood in my case) went on to the pads, again at 1500 centres, and then treated pine joists went onto the bearers at I think 450 centres. Where I'm going to there is that the total depth required from ground to top of deck is
100mm pads
100mm bearers
90mm joists
20mm (?) modwood
Total 310mm

You want a reasonable clearance between the ground and the bottom of the bearers. I have 100mm (thickness of the pads), and you wouldn't want the pads too much thinner than that.

So you would have to dig down 310 - 50 (paver thickness) = 260mm below the current bottom of the pavers, if you were doing the same construction. You would also have to ensure that the earth surface that you finish can drain away water because it can't just run off the edge of the pavers as it currently does (not a particularly difficult thing to do, btw).

Digging down will produce quite a bit of waste fill to be disposed of.

I did coat the bearers with erzatz creosote, but as you know it is not exposed to direct rainfall. In your case I would be inclined to at least paint the bearers and joists with three coats of paint BEFORE laying them, and then use the specialist plastic strip to cover them (can't think of it's name now, but Ray will). Basically try to keep as much water as possible off the joists and bearers.

When it came to building the woodstore shed, I change the pad technique slightly. I pre-cast them using 200mm and 250mm water pipe. They are flat top and bottom. Really easy to make.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=397291&d=1476522317

As Paul says, Ray will no doubt have excellent advice for you, and might have a simpler construction technique than mine.

[FenceFurniture]

Btw, I agree with Wongo on the Modwood - the last thing you want to do is have timber exposed to sun and pool water. You'll just be (expensively) changing one form of maintenance for another.

[Chris Parks]

Andy, you walked on Modwood when were at my place and we went downstairs from the workshop to inspect the sewing room. It is 20 years old and was the first generation and you can see it has worked out well for wear and general durability. The deck that surrounds our pool I built on my own the first time and yours is a doddle compared to that. I would not use either Modwood or hardwood around a pool, the Modwood gets too hot and the hardwood as it get older could splinter and injure feet. Treated pine is still my choice even though mine lasted about twenty years and we had to pull it back to the hardwood bearers and totally rebuild it. Use stainless screws when you do it and you can always get them out when needed. I think it was about 3,500 screws in mine including the fence and they aren't all that expensive bought in bulk lots. If you use Modwood I would go for smaller bearer/joist centres as it does flex a bit more than pine and a lot more than hardwood.

The plank direction is very important around a free form shape pool as you can cut the ends in to the wall at the best angle, in other words perpendicular to the pool. Laid the other way and it would be just about impossible to get the planks long ways and snug to the walls of the pool. I made spacers to get the planks even from 5mm thick material which saved a lot of mucking around. Brett made/has? a water level or if you want I have a laser level you can use.

As for acid washing I went another way, my son got in the pool with a high pressure washer and blasted it but it can be a long process because the water becomes very murky. The biggest issue is how far down do you have to excavate to get the clear space for the deck to be flush with the pool combing and what sort of soil is it. When the pool gets used by a herd of kids the deck takes a pounding and the piers will want to be deep enough to resist but providing there are no rocks in the way a small borer will put piers down deep enough for that.

[FenceFurniture]

the Modwood gets too hot
Use stainless screws when you do it and you can always get them out when needed. Yup - Mitre 10 has them cheap, Bunnings prolly do too.
smaller bearer/joist centres as it does flex a bit more than pine and a lot more than hardwood.I was nearly going to say that I thought Modwood might get hot - in the dark colours anyway. Here (https://www.google.com/search?q=modwood+colours&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=-8HSVwjLwcfhmM%253A%252CD6s3VGNArsr0dM%252C_&usg=AFrqEzebei1bIJC21l3uKsxxiUKGnNbUzQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjYvfaz2P3cAhVLS7wKHRR_DFMQ9QEwBnoECAUQBg#imgrc=-8HSVwjLwcfhmM:) are some colours, and Sahara appears to be the lightest - "brushed" would be best for a wet area.

On Chris's suggestion about smaller distances between joists - it doesn't cost too much extra to do that. You could even do joists at 300 centres for not a whole lot extra money, and you don't necessarily have to screw into each joist - every second one (for 300 centres) would probably be enough, and if there are any bouncing boards you can screw them down later.

[rwbuild]

G'Day Andy

Critical question, is the pool concrete or fibreglass?
The property next door on the left, how far is their land below your existing paver level?

[Chris Parks]

I am fortunate that I can buy well made SS screws from a few different specialist fastener suppliers at what I reckon are reasonable prices, under $10/hundred box the last time I did it and I might have a better source now but I haven't tried him.

[Fuzzie]

The existing pavers look to be concrete. Have you considered ripping them up and relaying kiln fired clay pavers? It's my experience clay pavers don't collect the dirt as significantly as concrete pavers and look a lot better all the time. Properly laying new pavers (using a plate compactor and new sand) would be easier than building a deck and wouldn't alter the finish height much.

[groeneaj]

Alright, I’ve done quite a bit of research over the past 24 hours. To do the deck properly I’d be looking at easily over $3000 in materials plus I’d have to find time to get around to build it before December.

I think I need to be realistic, and it’s unlikely I’ll be able to finish it in time. I’m spending quite a bit of money getting new equipment in the pool, so it would really annoy me if I have a half finished deck to contend with whilst using it over summer.

So I’ve decided I’ll stick to my original idea of pavers with pebbles. Sort of like the picture below, but maybe a more random pattern. I’ll paint the pavers that immediately surround the pool, then rip up the existing pavers and either replace them with something that contrasts with the freshly painted pavers, or just paint them the same colour. The missus has a thing about things matching so I’ll need to chat to her about it. I think I’d prefer new pavers.

This will be much easier and shouldn’t take too long. I’m thinking once the pavers are removed, ill add a weed mat as I’m so over weeding. Then just lay out the pattern I like, add some mortar and drop in the pavers. Adjust and level and move on. Then add the pebbles and that’s it. Any comments on this?

Cheers

441044

[groeneaj]

G'Day Andy

Critical question, is the pool concrete or fibreglass?
The property next door on the left, how far is their land below your existing paver level?

Hi Ray,

It’s a concrete pool. Not entirely sure how far it is, I’ll get a rough measurement soon.

Cheers

[Fuzzie]

I was close to getting it filled in but decided to keep it, especially with my 18 month old at the age where she will really enjoy it.
......

So I’ve decided I’ll stick to my original idea of pavers with pebbles. Sort of like the picture below

Looks a bit adult and not all that small child friendly to me.

[Handyjack]

I bet not all that friendly to walk over and I can imagine cleaning a bigger pain than now.

"... not all that small child friendly..." Just think how many pebbles the little one might drop, knock, or kick into the pool - or put in the mouth when they are of that age.

[Chris Parks]

Pool cleaners do not like rocks in pools or most don't. We found a problem when the kids were young and in the pool more than out of it, their feet started to be abraded so much by the pebblecrete pool surface that they started bleeding. I guess this happened because their feet were soft to start with and constantly being in the water softened them more. Andy, I would not recommend this approach, of all the choices i would get the pavers laid properly with a slight fall away from the pool, I bet it costs less than doing a timber deck.

[groeneaj]

I know what you’re saying and I’ve considered the size of the pebbles. I’d go for larger diameter pebbles, as for her picking them up etc, although it’s not ideal I’d be there to teach her.

As for the comfort of walking on the pebbles, the pavers will be spaced rather closely together.

In saying this, I’m open to suggestions. What do you guys think would be a better solution?

[rwbuild]

Ok, will wait for approx measurement

[FenceFurniture]

What do you guys think would be a better solution?Just pavers. You are yet to experience the "joys" of 6 kids in a pool. 32db ear muffs will be quite useful. No matter what you try to enforce, they will still run when they shouldn't.

Shall we say that pebbles are probably ok for adults only?

[groeneaj]

Ok, will wait for approx measurement

About 700mm mate. What are you thinking?

[groeneaj]

Just pavers. You are yet to experience the "joys" of 6 kids in a pool. 32db ear muffs will be quite useful. No matter what you try to enforce, they will still run when they shouldn't.

Shall we say that pebbles are probably ok for adults only?

It does make sense. I never really thought about walking around the pool where pebbles may eventually get annoying. To be fair, I’ve used the thing literally 4 times in 5 years. That’s no joke. But we got some friends who are keen, and my little one will enjoy it.

I’ll look into ripping up the old pavers, giving them a good clean, probably a lick of paver paint then lay them down again. Whoever laid them down previously had a shocker. I can’t possibly do a worse job.

[Beardy]

I am not a fan of the pebbles around the pool either, that is more a show look than a practical one particularly if children are involved
Not real keen on painting the existing pavers either. If you don’t like the existing ones I would replace them, there are plenty of budget priced options available even look at second hand ones.
If you are going to go to the effort of relaying the pavers you may as well lay something you like.

[fletty]

Andy, I am confident that you can do It yourself and you will do it well. It will take a little while but you can do it. Modwood is a good choice too.

:whs:

[fletty]

Whatever you decide to do ( I’m a fan of relaying the pavers!) I’m sure you can round up a couple of labourers from the forum. I’m not very bright but I work for beer and sausage sandwiches and can lift heavy weights :construction:

[rwbuild]

About 700mm mate. What are you thinking?

I personally would go for pavers, why?, dont rot, very easy to pressure wash and if you want to seal them use the same sealer that concretors use for stencilcrete.
The photo you had in this thread has gone so I can't say if they would be ok to re-use. Pebbles can be held in place by using a 20mm bed of sand/cement slurry and tamp the pebbles into it, just make sure that your substrate is well compacted first.
From memory your place is in a designated bushfire zone so it would be wise to use an approved timber around it. If you do use timber then you will need to remove a lot of soil first, H3 treated joists, stainless fixings, protectadeck on top of joists (use the 75mm one because of the amount of water hosing down that it will get or 110mm viscor flashing and crease it on the 2 top edges so it splays down). I would run the boards at 90deg to the sides of the pool (easier to frame up and fit boards to shape of pool) and either change direction at the 4 corners with mitre or step and stagger lap.

[FenceFurniture]

then use the specialist plastic strip to cover them (can't think of it's name now, but Ray will).
protectadeck on top of joists
:doh:

[groeneaj]

Thanks for the replies guys. I had my mate around yesterday and he talked me through how to lay pavers with the proper pitch etc. It seems like a fair amount of time is in the preparation, with the actual laying being relatively quick.

I’ve given up on the idea of a deck due to costs/time, so it’s going to be pavers. I like Ray’s suggestion with setting pebbles in concrete, I’ll look into it. That way the issue of pebbles falling into the pool will be eliminated. As to walking on them, I can space the pavers close enough so it’s not an issue. I just want to be realistic as to getting it done in time. I had the pool guy come around the other day and I’m almost all set for them to come around and get the pool sorted.