Opinions sought

[MathewA]

Opinions are like ***** holes - everyones got one... And I'd like to hear yours - your opinion that it

It would seem that my cabinet making days are over. Been looking at a few shops and I have to say being offered insuliting wages between 15 and 19 an hour make me think I'd rather work at 7/11.

So... One thing I've noticed is that small businesses are far more common here than back in Canada. So maybe it's time to look at my/our own business. So what I was wanting from you all was your opinions of going out there and... Did you buy a franchise, buy an existing business, start your own from scratch... What's your thoughts on it. I'm looking more for details that "it great go for it" If you don't feel inclined to tell the world PM

Thx Mat

[Gumby]

Been looking at a few shops and I have to say being offered insuliting wages between 15 and 19 an hour make me think I'd rather work at 7/11.



So Mat, when you open, I'm assuming you won't be paying 'insulting' wages so can I apply for a position please. :)

[ptc]

Take up Surfing.

[E. maculata]

Yes Matthew I have several thousand opinions, all of them are free. On this have no opinion that is worthy.

[DanP]

Pros and cons to both Mat, buy one all ready in business and you get the gear without having to set it up yourself, which means less down time at the start etc. BUT you also buy the previous blokes reputation, good or bad, which can be hard to change. However, an existing business may have an established clientelle (sp?) that you will have to build with a new business. I think I would go with the established business but do a bit of research about the rep of the place you are looking at.

Dan

[Cliff Rogers]

I lean toward setting up a fresh & then maybe aquire some business from others along the way.

I have bought work from other businesses, taken over work from other businesses when they had more than they could or wanted to do. I have pinched work from other businesses by providing better/faster service.

Just don't sink yourself into a debt thaqt you can't service while you are starting up. Don't uy/hire/lease all the flash murry stuff before you have a means to make the payments & eat.
Don't splurge & waste money on advertising either, do your homework & make every cent you spend on it pay. If/when you get up & going & have a rep, all that you will need is a yellow pages advert & word of mouth. In the mean time, you will get better value for money out of putting your own time (while you are waiting for the orders) into personally meetting people. "Networking" is the buzzword. Go armed with business cards & your charm & meet as many people as you can.

Go for it.

[anthonyd]

"Networking" is the buzzword.

Networking!! Is that web browsing?? I got fired for that;)!!

[outback]

If you want to open your own business, great do it.

I think there would be better value for money in buying an ongoing business. Same reasons as Dan stated. Whilst the current reputation goodwill call it what you will is part of that business, a pretty smart advertising campaign on startup can turn around a run down business, which can be bought for less money.

I think advertising is paramount, particularly in the early stages.

Cliff made a sound call when he said to be careful and not get in over your head. Banks will happily lend more money than you can ever pay back.

[Daddles]

Have a chat with Centre Link. There is a program designed to help setting up a new business. It includes training and mentoring, and huge tax breaks. A mate of mine went through it and while it sounded too good to be true going into it, it proved to be as good as it sounded.

Find yourself a niche and work into it Andrew. Perhaps your Canadian background (you are the Canadian aren't you?) will give you some angle you can use to make you stand out from the others.

Cheers
Richard

[derekcohen]

Hi Mat

Rule #1: Do your homework.
Rule #2: Get a good accountant to check your homework.
Rule #3: Recognise that your enthusiasm and eagerness for your own business will blind you to the problems you discover in Rule #1 and make you frustrated with the advice you get in #2.

Do something that you know well. Are you thinking about the furniture business or something related?

The advantages of buying an existing business or franchise is that you get many of the kinks already worked out (but not all). Some might say that there is also an immediate income from this approach, but I can tell you that this is not so. 12 months down the track and I am still waiting for my wife's (bought) to make one cent! (And the numbers were solid beforehand, I can assure you).

The disadvantage of buying is the cost involved: can you sustain the debt/outlay/loan?

A new business - bought or from scratch - usually takes about 2 years (an average figure I have been given) before it makes money. I say this not to scare you, but to emphasize the need to plan and budget wisely (good points raised by Cliff). Most new businesses fail in the first few years.

Having said all this, there is nothing like a new venture (adventure?) to set the heart racing! Life should be about taking some risks, testing one's mettle. Don't look back when it is too late (is it ever too late? My 80-year-old mother sold her antique business two years ago, then started a new life as a consultant, and not as a hobby either).

Lastly, maintain an orderly mind about the structure of your venture. All the facts and figures. Get the accountant to help you lay this out with all the projections of costs and profits (you do plan for those, don't you :D ). This is going to be necessary to sell the affair to your bank manager.

I hope this helps a little.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[doug the slug]

Don't splurge & waste money on advertising either, do your homework & make every cent you spend on it pay. If/when you get up & going & have a rep, all that you will need is a yellow pages advert & word of mouth. .

Ive been in business for myself for over 7 years now and i cut out yellow pages advertising after 3 years. not once did the yellow pages ad pay its way, let alone make a profit for me. Good reputation and word of mouth has worked a lot better for me.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Wood Butcher]

Whilst the current reputation goodwill call it what you will is part of that business, a pretty smart advertising campaign on startup can turn around a run down business, which can be bought for less money.

A friend of mine recently purchased a "Hire a Hubby" handtman franchise norht of brisbane. The previous franchisee had let the business get a bit tired in recent times. After purchase my friend spent a lot of time doing letter box drops, going and meeting real estate agencies (rental repair work) and meeting all of the local trade supply shops. Now 12 months later he is doing fairly well for himself. Still not making lots of cash because he is spending a lot on new tools:D.

MathewA, have a go at it, wish you the best of luck.

[martrix]

Ive been in business for myself for over 7 years now and i cut out yellow pages advertising after 3 years. not once did the yellow pages ad pay its way, let alone make a profit for me. Good reputation and word of mouth has worked a lot better for me.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon6.gif

The Yellow Page's are a waste of time and money. The day's of advertising in Yellow pages are over, with now, so many different avenue's of promoting your business. The like's of Telstra, The Trading Post and the Yellow Pages, all became too greedy with their pricing, and are now all happily being devoured by the ever faithfull beast "Competition"! http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif......................and yes I am speaking from experience with the Yellow Pages..................and Trading Post..........and Telstra....well are'nt we all.

rant off!

[MathewA]

So Mat, when you open, I'm assuming you won't be paying 'insulting' wages so can I apply for a position please. :)

Sure! But you can't wear that hat:D

[Robert WA]

Matthew A.

I am surprised that a qualified tradesman is being offered "insulting" wages. You must be looking in the wrong places.

There is a huge shortage of tradespersons in this country and lots of well paid work available. You have to be prepared to go to the work.

Statistically, something like 75% of all new businesses go broke in the 1st 12 months. Think long and hard about that option.

[Sturdee]

In addition to the rules that Derek gave never, ever forget the final rule which is to follow the advice that a GOOD , and make certain that he is good as not all are :eek: , accountant will give you in particular to the way to set up your business structure.

I have seen many new business start up over the years and many of them have failed after a while for a variety of reasons, usually unexpected and unforseen and not the fault of the business owners.

Some of them lost everything, including their house, whilst others who had better advice walked away without too much heartache and were able to resume their lives quickly.

THe difference in these cases was the way the business structure was set up. I don't know the situation in Canada but here a corporate structure unlike partnerships or sole traders gives limited liability protections and the laws of bankruptcy are designed to help you if you get into trouble.

No doubt I'll get flamed over such advice as many will not agree with this but as one company liquidator used to say : " If they don't use the law to protect themself then they deserve to loose their money".

Only you can decide whether the risk is worth it but being forewarned is forearmed. :D

BTW for this advice I used to charge a lot more then my current 2 cents worth. :D


Peter.

[MathewA]

Opinions are like ***** holes - everyones got one... And I'd like to hear yours - your opinion that it

It would seem that my cabinet making days are over. Been looking at a few shops and I have to say being offered insuliting wages between 15 and 19 an hour make me think I'd rather work at 7/11.

So... One thing I've noticed is that small businesses are far more common here than back in Canada. So maybe it's time to look at my/our own business. So what I was wanting from you all was your opinions of going out there and... Did you buy a franchise, buy an existing business, start your own from scratch... What's your thoughts on it. I'm looking more for details that "it great go for it" If you don't feel inclined to tell the world PM

Thx Mat

Insulting isn't quite the right word, make me sound arrogant, but I make 18/h as a sparkies labourer. So the wage offers are a bit deflating to say the least. As a labourer I'm not expected to think, much. But these cabinet shops are expecting me to take on a project from the planning stage and pop out a finished piece on time and under budget.

[craigb]

Mat, if you don't want to work in a cabinet shop, couldn't you work as a chippie?

They get a lot more than $19/hour. Especially if they are working directly for Joe Public rather than a builder.

I've never run my own business, but from what I've observed, the people that do generally work a lot longer than 40 hours/week.

I guess it can be rewarding too but I think there's a lot of headache/heartache involved as well.

[namtrak]

Gidday,

I suspect they are paying you a labourers rate. If you are working as a chippie with your own ABN (get an ABN online from the Tax office) (and get registered for GST if you are going to earn over $50,000) and you bring your own tools you should get somewhere between $25 per hour and $30 per hour. If you do some subbing for six months or so then work should flow under your own banner, where your rate depends on what you charge at, $40 is quite reasonable. However, you need to spend some time and money getting correctly licensed and insured. As a landscaper I think it is worth the hassle, as I control my hours and control the quality of the job.

On a side note, I only advertise with a $130 ad in the yellowpages and it works a treat, leads to at least a job a month.

Cheers

[spbookie]

For the official word on ABN's, GST and suchlike, with a heaping of pretty good business advice go have a look at business.gov.au (http://business.gov.au/).


Disclaimer: I do computer stuff for the site.

[journeyman Mick]

Matthew,
as you've discovered there's huge difference between wages paid for onsite work as opposed to workshop or factory type wages. Cabinet making has never been well paid compared to carpentry - unless of course you're self employed. I've shifted away from carpentry work because the body gets a bit tired and the weather can make life difficult. It's been a slow shift with a gradual acquisition of tools and machinery. I started off using a cutting service to make my tops and cut all the board, insert hinges etc. All I bascally did was to assemble and fit. This might be a way to start, without a huge capital outlay. You won't need to rent a huge shed or lease machinery and then if things pick up you can acquire machines. As you're in Qld you'll need to get a QBSA license, not sure if you can do this straight off or whether you need to work for/with someone else for two years.

Mick

[echnidna]

I am speaking from experience with the Yellow Pages..................and Trading Post..........and Telstra....well are'nt we all.

rant off!

What competition, they are all Telstra owned.

Matt,
Micks advice is spot on.

[rick_rine]

The best thing I ever did was buy two shops in the center of town , only small mind you , but then I rent them out on long leases , collect the rent , no worries . Tennants pay the rates and outgoings and I just smile on the first of every month .
Borrow at 7% and try to get a higher return , say 9% , then you get 9% on your deposit , say 40% , and an extra 2 % on the money you borrowed from the bank .

Simple when you know how .