So Ashamed of Our Cheating Cricket team

[Tahlee]

I never thought the day would come when I wouldn't support our national cricket team .... but it has ... and i feel that we have forever lost our sporting integrity.

CA should sack Smith, Bancroft and the "leadership team", declare on the current match, and withdraw from the test

So sad ... so bad


Rob

[Gabriel]

I agree with your sentiment, but I'm just perplexed as to how obvious it was and if they thought in today's 'everything on camera' society how they could get away with it....

I'm very interested to hear their reasoning and seeing the fallout....

Very sad day for cricket though

[Twisted Tenon]

I am not happy with what has happened either, but struggle to see the difference between these recent events and the 2005 Pommy test team that doctored the ball using mints.

TT

[rrich]

I understand little about Cricket. (I've watched but remain confused.) How can anyone cheat on video and expect to get away with it?

[Chesand]

To paraphrase Jim Hacker, Sir Humphrey and Bernard from Yes Minister "It is appalling".
I never thought that I would feel ashamed of being Australian.

[Bob38S]

It had to happen as it does in many arenas today. When the pressure is to always win and $$$$ are attached to that winning, the temptation to win at any cost becomes prevalent.

Stopped watching football many years ago when the games of skill took a backseat to winning and huge $$$ involved which led to the game becoming a TV show rather than a game.

In cricket, in the future, when something happens there will now always be the question, is or isn’t it legit? They didn’t need to do it, the team had plenty of skill and class to win or lose fairly but now....... it’s just a shame, what’s your reputation worth? What’s Australia’s reputation worth?

I’m severely disappointed to be so let down by the very people who are so looked up to by all of the kids going to practice and playing each weekend with the hope of one day playing with honour in a baggy green.

[Chesand]

....... it’s just a shame, what’s your reputation worth?

I would sooner be financially bankrupt than morally bankrupt. These guys are certainly morally bankrupt and their financial situation has/will take a beating. Smith has already been sacked from his position in the IPL.

[jmk89]

All of this is true but hardly unexpected in a world where people will scam anything, even puppy dogs (https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/dont-fall-for-a-scammers-puppy-dog-eyes).

[BobL]

I agree with Bob38S, there's just waaaay too much money involved, most professional sport is already highly contaminated or all headed that way.

I recently read a book about the corruption in European football - it just turned into a variation of WWW.

I used to be a keen sports follower on the media but these days the shed radio is usually tuned to RN.

[Dengue]

You can cheat, but don't get caught! Politicians, business men, sporting clubs ( eg.,Melbourne Storm, Manly Seagulls etc) and sportsmen all do it. Although why the Aust cricket team thought they could get away with it defies comprehension.
Smith will never step down, not with over $1m at risk.
Bring them all home now and forfeit the series, and sack Smith, silly bugger! No brains.

[Arron]

. Although why the Aust cricket team thought they could get away with it defies comprehension.

Usually, when this question is asked, the answer is because it’s been going on for so long that people have become inured to the risk.

I seem to remember that last time Bancroft was suspected he was photoed shovelling sugar into his pocket before he went on field.

I agree with the above comments. Sack them, forfeit the series and bring them home in disgrace. Then start again, and do something about the sledging and all the other unsporting stuff while at it.

[rustynail]

I can remember the monotonous trips into the Australian Rugby Union, trying to get professional recognition for our players. We were constantly told we would regret the day the code turned professional. Couldn't see it then, but sure can now.

[Tahlee]

Captain Smith has permanently smeared himself .... I will never buy any product he is associated with ... he is a cheat and a man of little moral fibre.

Please let him fade into obscurity ..... and please dont do feature stories about his certain depression and feeling of being victimised ..... he deserves to be depressed ... he has depressed a nation of cricket lovers.

Rob

[Handyjack]

OK, so Australia was not doing well in the test, but to try and alter the game by any illegal means is not in the spirit of not only cricket but any sport. Cycling and weight lifting, eastern European and Chinese athletes will always have a question mark over their performance. Now the Australian Cricket team will lose a lot of respect. The ramifications will be there for a long time. Cricket Australia will now have trouble selling broadcast rights for the money they want, and it will possibly mean a smaller audiance and fewer bums on seats. To quote a television presenter "What were they thinking?"
It is better to get done by fair means than to cheat. As it was Australia lost the test by over 300 runs - a big loss.
As for the rest of the series - not sure I will be really interested as anything might now be manufactured.
As for repecussions, those knowing involved (or prepared to put their hand up) should be suspended for 12 months, and S. Smith loose the captincy. Remeber Shane Warne was out of cricket for 12 months for taking a pill.

[Twisted Tenon]

Here’s a bit of balance (https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/steve-smith-has-done-the-wrong-thing-but-spare-me-the-hysterical-overreaction-20180326-p4z6b1.html)

TT

[truckjohn]

So out of sheer perplexity over what was going on.. I checked into this...

I had a good laugh after reading what went on... It almost looked to me like a very clumsy attempt to appear to "throw the match into question" and give an excuse for SA's defeat of Aus.... And in this regard - it was perfectly successful... There is no great fame for the SA team beating the Aus team.. Their win is now diminished by the cheating accusations against the losing team..

And I came to the conclusion that the people in question were very likely NOT in fact "Cheaters"....

A. Ham fisted, amateurish, and obvious attempt (my 6 year old kid is more subtle than this..)
B. Ineffective - nothing was actually accomplished (The referees checked the balls in question and found no problems at all).
C. So obviously caught on film..

And I suppose the real "Shame" felt is that if you are going to cheat:
Accomplish it
Don't be an idiot and get caught like a little kid reaching into the cookie jar..

And any accomplished sports player can easily do this... Every high school pitcher I have ever met knows "all the tricks" to get that teeny edge on the ball... And of course - the ref's know what to look for... So returning the ball to play signals nothing happened....

[Christos]

I was shocked to hear this news and was thinking that this was incorrect news.

Now reading about it and having some time to think it comes back to my personal feelings about cricket. I am perplexed that this has happened and why it was necessary to tamper the ball. Australian cricket have lost matches before and nothing has changed the next match comes along and the previous one is forgotten(almost). It is always on the current match and what can change during that match.

I am sad that this has happened as I enjoy watching Steve Smith bat I hope that the punishment is fair and just. One thing thou it will be hard for everyone to forgive and forget after the punishment has been concluded as social media does not often forgive.

As for me I will continue to watch cricket as I love the game.

[truckjohn]

The thing is... One "bad pitch" into the dirt or one fouled hit off the side of the bat is all it takes to rough up the ball enough for a good pitcher to wreak havoc on an opponent... One lumpy stitch on the ball... Why would anybody need to get sand on some tape and scrub a spot onto the ball? That's why this is so ridiculous to me..

[Twisted Tenon]

Here's another piece of perspective (http://www.news.com.au/sport/cricket/comment-isnt-anyone-prepared-to-stand-with-steve-smith/news-story/818d9f4740795dab21a75f3afbd3781f). I'm not condoning it in any way.
our team has lost it's way. Let's work on returning them to the fold of Australian values. :rolleyes:

TT
(http://www.news.com.au/sport/cricket/comment-isnt-anyone-prepared-to-stand-with-steve-smith/news-story/818d9f4740795dab21a75f3afbd3781f)

[FenceFurniture]

So returning the ball to play signals nothing happened....What has the whole country upset is that it was pre-meditated, discussed and planned.

The thing is... One "bad pitch" into the dirt or one fouled hit off the side of the bat is all it takes to rough up the ball enough for a good pitcher to wreak havoc on an opponent... One lumpy stitch on the ball... Why would anybody need to get sand on some tape and scrub a spot onto the ball? That's why this is so ridiculous to me..Yes, all the things that happen naturally wear the ball down. They are random, and part of the nature of the game, just as the pitch (as in the strip of ground) breaking down over the 5 days duration, and the weather over 5 days, are all natural influences that can only sometimes be predicted accurately.

However, what they are seeking to do is to rough up one side of the ball and keep the other side shiny. This has a great effect on what the ball does through the air before it bounces after the bowler releases it. It can swing one way in the air and bounce t'other way off the pitch. Then there are the cracks in the pitch after a few days that can cause different bounces in different directions.

This sideways movement in the air is what you would call a curve ball in Baseball, and is called "Swing". After a while, and depending on whether it is overcast or not, the ball can start to "reverse swing" (go the opposite way to normal) which often results in a delivery that is either unplayable or forces an error that gets the batter out. A few unplayable deliveries in a row and the batter doesn't know what's coming next.

They were seeking to invoke reverse swing by roughing up one side only.

Note that the ball is replaced every 80 overs (6 deliveries per over), and always at the start of a new innings. If a ball becomes misshapen or fatally damaged before the 80 overs are up then a ball of similar age can be selected to replace it.

"One lumpy stitch on the ball" is cause for the ball to either be "clipped" by the Umpires, or replaced.

There even rules about how many bounces the ball can have when being returned from the outfield. If the fielding team throw the ball back to the wicketkeeper and continually make sure it drops short (and bounces often more to get more wear) then the umpires will have something to say about it. Same goes for the pitch - the bowlers aren't allowed to scuff it up deliberately (they have spikes in their shoes), even though natural wear and tear causes it to degrade.

[Ari2]

It's just 'not cricket'...

[ian]

So out of sheer perplexity over what was going on.. I checked into this...

And I came to the conclusion that the people in question were very likely NOT in fact "Cheaters"....

B. Ineffective - nothing was actually accomplished (The referees checked the balls in question and found no problems at all).

And any accomplished sports player can easily do this... Every high school pitcher I have ever met knows "all the tricks" to get that teeny edge on the ball... And of course - the ref's know what to look for... So returning the ball to play signals nothing happened....it's a lot more subtle

a cricket ball wears as it is used. This is expected.
teams are allowed to "polish" the ball during play to even out the wear, or to make one side less worn (i.e. shinier) than the other. Players are allowed to use sweat, saliva, and their clothing to polish a ball. (If you watch enough games you will recognise the persistent ball polishers by the red stain on their trousers in the groin area.) Players are not allowed to use foreign material -- i.e. mints, floor polish, etc -- to polish the ball. Likewise players are not permitted to use foreign matter (sand paper, dirt, gravel, etc) to rough up the ball.

All other things being equal. As a ball wears through use, the advantage is generally thought to move from the bowling team to the batting team and back to the bowling team based on the ability of the bowling teams bowlers. (Typically a team will contain several specialist bowlers -- some specialise at bowling the ball when it is new, others when it is well worn, and a few are good in between.)

In this case it appears that the intent was to adjust the rate of wear on the ball to favour the skill set (speed, swing through the air, cut off the pitch) of one of the Australian bowlers. If attempt had been successful the bowler would have had a longer sweet period, or their sweet period would have occurred at a different time in the innings.

The fact that the umpires allowed the ball to remain in play doesn't imply they found "no problems at all", rather it only suggests that in the umpires' opinion the ball in question wasn't damaged enough to warrant replacing. Which is an entirely different situation. A ball might remain in a playable condition, but because that condition hasn't been reached by "fair wear and tear", the team responsible for the ball being in that condition can be penalised.


The other thing to remember is that in Australia, the position of Captain of the Australian Test team carries higher social standing and prestige than does any other public office, including that of Prime Minister or Governor General.

[FenceFurniture]

The other thing to remember is that in Australia, the position of Captain of the Australian Test team carries higher social standing and prestige than does any other public office, including that of Prime Minister or Governor General.Indeed Ian.

We expect our politicians to be, well, at least a little bit dodgy and we are rarely surprised when they are caught out doing something they shouldn't be, and they very often are. We have more or less given up respecting them or looking up to them. The days of genuine leaders are long gone unfortunately.

We expect our Governors General to be a rubber stamp who does what they are told, and we don't generally care who they are or what they have stood for (a largely ceremonial position that is more or less redundant and expensive).

We expect our Australian Cricket Captain to be morally sound, a great leader to be looked up to (albeit at only 27-35 years of age, sometimes even younger), fair, and vastly talented at their chosen profession, with an excellent strategic mind. I can't think of a regular Captain in the last 50 years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australia_national_cricket_captains) that wasn't all of those things. Perhaps Kim Hughes wasn't the greatest strategist.

[Bob38S]

What’s happened has happened, I’m not looking for nor advocating someone’s head on a plate, it’s one of those “it seemed like a good idea at the time” situation and a lack of maturity and the $$$ pressure caused a failure to think of or consider the consequences. I’m trusting the investigators to do a fair and thorough investigation and determine what punishments are applicable. Time for all involved to ‘fess up and cop it on the chin.

My disappointment will diminish, the memory is perhaps another thing. There are many in the press and the alternative press aka social media (not really social) who are calling for all sorts of nastiness. The degree of fairness they feel has been “injured” needs to be addressed severely yet they prefer to see themselves as judge, jury and executioner ~ doesn’t seem to really fair to me.

[Twisted Tenon]

We expect our Australian Cricket Captain to be morally sound, a great leader to be looked up to (albeit at only 27-35 years of age, sometimes even younger), fair, and vastly talented at their chosen profession, with an excellent strategic mind. I can't think of a regular Captain in the last 50 years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australia_national_cricket_captains) that wasn't all of those things. Perhaps Kim Hughes wasn't the greatest strategist.

And yet FF there has been a growing disquiet over the amount/tone of sledging maybe since Border took over. It seems from the reactions from other teams that what ever the line was, it was being crossed in a deeply personal way. Sledging was happening before this era but sounded like it had a different form. I wonder if this has contributed to the deteriorating group think bubble that is the Australian test team. I get sledging to a point, but the stuff being dished out is unmanly and only provokes an escalation. The result is MAD, mutually assured destruction.

TT

[ian]

I get sledging to a point, but the stuff being dished out is unmanly and only provokes an escalation.
my favorite is from Victor Richardson
"Which one of you bastards called this bastard a 'bastard'?"

[Twisted Tenon]

my favorite is from Victor Richardson
"Which one of you bastards called this bastard a 'bastard'?"

Or “tickets please”.

TT

[FenceFurniture]

And yet FF there has been a growing disquiet over the amount/tone of sledging maybe since Border took over. It seems from the reactions from other teams that what ever the line was, it was being crossed in a deeply personal way. Yes, I have no doubt it is on the increase, particularly with Warner, but much of it was hearsay evidence before stump-mikes were in place.

TBH, I think those in the slips and any other positions close to the batters should be made to be silent while the bowler is running in (so from when he is just about to turn around) and until after the ball has been hit (or not). Maybe that's supposed to be the case now, but I'll bet it rarely happens.

[fenderbelly]

They should all be banned for life.

[Twisted Tenon]

Yes, I have no doubt it is on the increase, particularly with Warner, but much of it was hearsay evidence before stump-mikes were in place.

TBH, I think those in the slips and any other positions close to the batters should be made to be silent while the bowler is running in (so from when he is just about to turn around) and until after the ball has been hit (or not). Maybe that's supposed to be the case now, but I'll bet it rarely happens.



Good point. Much like a golfer teeing off.


TT

[truckjohn]

How about this for a trade.

You send us the whole lot of this horrible cheating and completely unforgivable Australian cricket team and we will return the favor by sending you America's finest mob of whining, protesting, loud mouth, money grubbing. anthem sitting football players and we will call it even. ;) ;)

I am pretty confident you won't *catch* our fellows cheating. ;) ;) ;)

[ian]

They should all be banned for life.
would be far better to pressure the team's sponsors to withdraw their financial support.
That would bring player salaries back to more normal levels.

[FenceFurniture]

LG have already dropped David Warner like a hot potato, and as far as the rest of the Cricket team is concerned he's about as welcome as a t*rd in a swimming pool apparently. Said to my son today that whatever ban he is given, unofficially it will be "your entire career is over bucko". I would think the Cricket Australia are very jaded from having to constantly maintain him (going back to 2013 to the Joe Root incident in England) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-lQcdRpL1M).

[Twisted Tenon]

Their IPL contracts are under scrutiny too.

TT

[ian]

LG have already dropped David Warner like a hot potato, and as far as the rest of the Cricket team is concerned he's about as welcome as a t*rd in a swimming pool apparently.
I was thinking more along the lines of cricket lovers pressuring the sponsors to remove their support from the entire team, not just individual players.

The game after all is a team sport, not a bunch of individuals -- and as commented on the ABC's website (I think) there ain't no way that any player is going to "work" the ball without the bowler's express knowledge and permission.

[barri]

As a cricket lover I am ashamed, embarrassed and angry like everybody else but as a proud father of two sons and taking a different slant on things I feel for Steve Smith's parents. What their son has done is not only possibly career destroying but life changing. Every time he goes into bat from now on he will be booed, taunted and ridiculed. Can you imagine the barmy army and their singing? What about when he sits in a cafe in Sydney as millions do and people stare, snigel, snarl and maybe taunt. He also stands to lose millions in sponsorship, player fees and future employment. As Trevor Chappel says the underarm incident haunts him to this very day and this included a failed marriage. With my father's hat on again I worry about Steve's mental health and I hope his family and professionals can give him the support that he needs and he's going to need it. I hope one day he can be forgiven and this terrible mistake that we are all furious about doesn't destroy him.

[ian]

I understand what you are saying Barri.
Yes, Steve Smith, and Bancroft and Warner, need our support in respect to their mental health.

Personally, I don't give a toss about him (and the others?) losing millions in sponsorship. For me it's less than tough titty.
In part my attitude is influenced by the common view that "ordinary kids" with degrees and such are expected to plan for a life where no job is permanent and their careers change every 5 years or so, while a tiny handful of "sports people" can be set up for life through 3 to 7 years of playing on the national or international stage. It is our affection for the team and loyalty to the sport that leads to the sponsors and broadcasters dropping big money onto the team which in turn leads to some members of the team being paid better than a banker at Macquarie.

[Spyro]

I'm not Australian, well, not born Australian anyway. Being brought up in the super-dirty culture of Greek football (and politics, and business, and a bunch of other things), I was always amazed at how shocked Australians are when faced with corruption, cheating and general unfairness and injustice. I've become numb to it, like most people where I come from, and it's not good. Keep being the way you are, it's one of the things that makes this country great.

[BobL]

I'm not Australian, well, not born Australian anyway. Being brought up in the super-dirty culture of Greek football (and politics, and business, and a bunch of other things), I was always amazed at how shocked Australians are when faced with corruption, cheating and general unfairness and injustice. I've become numb to it, like most people where I come from, and it's not good. Keep being the way you are, it's one of the things that makes this country great.

I agree. Italy is similarly corrupt, especially in sport, and they have been doing it for thousands of years. In Italy, cheats who succeed are often admired and called "Furbo" (pronounced "foorbo") those that caught are called "fools", not for cheating but for getting caught. It seems to be all about getting one over on everybody else which really sticks in my craw. It shows what long term cheating leads to in society.

[derekcohen]

I am deeply saddened by the events. This is not just about the players involved, but it affects everyone who has supported our Aussie team. We all lose ... our pride, self esteem, integrity. The narcississm of the players involved, which made them believe they were invincible and beyond the rules that govern ordinary people, have woken from this with a shock, and must now suffer anxiety for their futures, depression for the loss of a life-to-be, and anger for their senseless action. Their parents and families will share in all this. We, as a nation, do similarly as they are our role models (I so agree with Ian that we have the order of achievement back-to-front ... where muscle is valued way beyond brain).

But ... memories are short. Within a year all will be a distant memory, and money will continue to be thrown at players, and their narcissism will continue to be fed. The players involved will be welcomed back into the fold as the public are needy for the association with winners, and at heart we all accept cheating ... just as long as no one is caught. That is really at the heart of what is happening at present ... we knew what was going on (that our team sledge and act in a disgraceful way), and we averted our eyes (no one spoke up before now) ... as we do with so much else that goes on in the world.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[BobL]

Before we all continue to cast more stones, here's a challenging perspective from Stan Grant.
Australia's cheating scandal is about more than cricket - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-28/stan-grant-cricket-ball-tampering-steve-smith-australian-cricket/9595604)

He suggests it is a result of "Hyper-individualism" , and am increasingly tending to that view myself.
"That's why the ball tampering scandal has hit so hard: I suspect people don't feel simply betrayed by the cricketers but by a system that has created such pampered, globe-trotting sporting cheats."

The next big question is who created the system. Essentially we all do in some small way or other. Whether is allowing ourselves to be manipulated into or deliberated voting for corrupt pollies, or paying the big $$ to attend mega entertainment (including sports) events, or even watching entertainment sport on media, it all adds up to creating the system. Most people have no clue what they end up supporting or creating when they do certain things, some in the innocent name of what they call fun.

[Spyro]

But ... memories are short. Within a year all will be a distant memory, and money will continue to be thrown at players, and their narcissism will continue to be fed. The players involved will be welcomed back into the fold as the public are needy for the association with winners, and at heart we all accept cheating ... just as long as no one is caught. That is really at the heart of what is happening at present ... we knew what was going on (that our team sledge and act in a disgraceful way), and we averted our eyes (no one spoke up before now) ... as we do with so much else that goes on in the world.

Regards from Perth

Derek
I suspect the barmy army will make a nice chant about it and remind us for decades to come :D

[Twisted Tenon]

Before we all continue to cast more stones, here's a challenging perspective from Stan Grant.
Australia's cheating scandal is about more than cricket - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-28/stan-grant-cricket-ball-tampering-steve-smith-australian-cricket/9595604)

He suggests it is a result of "Hyper-individualism" , and am increasingly tending to that view myself.
"That's why the ball tampering scandal has hit so hard: I suspect people don't feel simply betrayed by the cricketers but by a system that has created such pampered, globe-trotting sporting cheats."

The next big question is who created the system. Essentially we all do in some small way or other. Whether is allowing ourselves to be manipulated into or deliberated voting for corrupt pollies, or paying the big $$ to attend mega entertainment (including sports) events, or even watching entertainment sport on media, it all adds up to creating the system. Most people have no clue what they end up supporting or creating when they do certain things, some in the innocent name of what they call fun.


BobL
Several factors happening here. Firstly I disagree with the "individuality" thing. I think it is about our desire to project ourselves onto the Aussie cricket team in the first place. Why do that? They are just sportsmen, not cancer research specialists or heart transplant surgeons. They get their training tax free too. What do these sportsmen actually contribute to Australian society?

Secondly, who created it? Agree, we bought into it, but what did we buy? Something to do with the sizzle sold by market research? If Derek is right, wait for the renaissance stories for Smith and Bancroft. Lots of opp eds about them helping "disadvantaged kids" attain their dreams etc.
Also watch for the demonisation of Warner. He will carry the stigma of a Judas - poor schmuck.

While we're at it, How come we are sending our athletes to the Olympics and world cups knowing that FIFA and the Olympic Federation are two of the most corrupt organisations in the world. Don't get me started on boxing and car racing.

Finally, I never thought I would say this, but I agree with Shane Warne here (https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/the-punishment-doesn-t-fit-the-crime-shane-warne-objects-to-ban-20180328-p4z6sm.html).

TT

[BobL]

BobL

Several factors happening here. Firstly I disagree with the "individuality" thing. I think it is about our desire to project ourselves onto the Aussie cricket team in the first place. Why do that? They are just sportsmen, not cancer research specialists or heart transplant surgeons.
I think maybe you are referring to the embarrassment or shame felt by the Oz public? If so, I don't really worry about that. I referring to why highly paid sports people cheat in the first place. They are either desperate to win or do it because they think they way above everyone else and can get away with it. That's what I mean by hyper individualism.


What do these sportsmen actually contribute to Australian society
I guess it depends on who you talk to.
There's talk that international sport helps prevent conflicts between countries - from what I can see it seems to fuel international conflict.
If the alternative to paying for a high priced sports event prevents large numbers of sports followers from taking drugs I guess there's some value in that.
The owners of pay TV sport would say they pay their fair share of tax.
An economist or poly would say sports people create large amounts of turn over or economic activity which is good for the country. The fact that the money could be put into more useful economic activity or even healthy low level participatory sport is not considered.
Psychologists and counsellors might say sports people create useful role models for young people to aspire to? Humm I agree there's quite a number of those but the few cheats and drug takers that are identified might just cancel them out.
High level organised sport (including the cheating and corruption) is just another way of harvesting the public of it's entertainment budget.
Some players help charities :2tsup:, operate charitable trusts, attend junior and amateur sports events and promos :2tsup: - OTOH some trusts are not quite what they are cracked up to be.
Not sure where the balance in all this lays - I'd like to think it's positive but when you see the money some make, well . . . . . .

I agree that the FIFA and the Olympic movement is corrupt.
Just another reason I no longer follow any organised sport like I used to.

[BobL]

From the ABC website;


We asked our audience on ABC News on Messenger (http://m.me/abcnews.au?ref=welcomefromABCNewshomepage) what they thought of the bans Cricket Australia handed out to the players involved in the ball-tampering scandal which has sponsors fleeing. (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-29/asics-terminates-deals-with-david-warner-and-cameron-bancroft/9600470)Smith and Warner each got year-long bans from international and domestic cricket, with Cameron Bancroft getting nine months (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-28/steve-smith-david-warner-banned-playing-australia/9598648). They'll each have to do 100 hours of voluntary service in community cricket.
With over 1,000 votes tallied up, 38 per cent of our Messenger users thought the punishments were fitting, 35 per cent though they should have been harsher, and 27 per cent believed they were too harsh.

Interesting spread. My guess is that those that would have responded would be sports followers and non sports followers might not be so kind?

[AlexS]

Wonder what gave the game away???
432520

[ian]

From the ABC website;

We asked our audience on ABC News on Messenger (http://m.me/abcnews.au?ref=welcomefromABCNewshomepage) what they thought of the bans Cricket Australia handed out to the players involved in the ball-tampering scandal which has sponsors fleeing. (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-29/asics-terminates-deals-with-david-warner-and-cameron-bancroft/9600470)Smith and Warner each got year-long bans from international and domestic cricket, with Cameron Bancroft getting nine months (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-28/steve-smith-david-warner-banned-playing-australia/9598648). They'll each have to do 100 hours of voluntary service in community cricket.
With over 1,000 votes tallied up, 38 per cent of our Messenger users thought the punishments were fitting, 35 per cent though they should have been harsher, and 27 per cent believed they were too harsh.
Interesting spread. My guess is that those that would have responded would be sports followers and non sports followers might not be so kind?
Interesting penalties.

In reality, the "bans" are not much more than a slap on the wrist. If it had been an ASADA or WADA doping offence, the bans would include ALL officially sanctioned competition, including grade level matches.

Athletes subject to a doping ban are permitted to train, but not hone and maintain their skills through competition.

[ian]

Interesting fall out

From the Financial Standard Magellan cuts ties with Cricket Australia | Financial Standard (http://www.financialstandard.com.au/news/magellan-cuts-ties-with-cricket-australia-114594448)

Magellan cuts ties with Cricket Australia
BY ALEX BURKE (http://www.financialstandard.com.au/archive?q=Alex+Burke&t=publisher) | THURSDAY, 29 MAR 2018 12:13PM
In light of the recent ball-tampering scandal, Magellan has terminated its three-year naming sponsorship agreement with Cricket Australia.
Magellan chief executive Hamish Douglass said the agreement was based on shared values and "reputations of integrity, leadership, dedication and an unwavering customer-first culture."

He added: "A conspiracy by the leadership of the Australian men's test cricket team which broke the rules with a clear intention to gain an unfair advantage during the third test in South Africa goes to the heart of integrity."

"Regrettably, these recent events are so inconsistent with our values that we are left with no option but to terminate our ongoing partnership with Cricket Australia. We were delighted with the recent Magellan Ashes Series sponsorship and it is with a heavy heart that we have to end our partnership in these circumstances."

[artme]

As a kid growing up and living cricket it was always impressed on us to be sportsman like in our dealings with the opposition.
It was customary in school matches and local grade matches to clap the opposing captain when he came in to bat. We likewise
applauded good batting and good fielding. There were no send offs or histrionics when an opponent was dismissed, there were
no temper tantrums when an appeal went against us. We played cricket for the love of the game and the hope of a win.

All of this has changed. At first the changes were imperceptible, but as the money supply to cricket increased so did the poor
behaviour until we have arrived at a situation where the money is more important than the game. Let's not hurl abuse and
opprobrium at the three who have been sent home.We should take a deeper look at the whole situation and to that end I suggest
everyone read the article by Gideon Haigh in "The Weekend Australian"".

[FenceFurniture]

In reality, the "bans" are not much more than a slap on the wrist. I dunno about that Ian. Just this year's loss of IPL is $2.5m each for Warner and Smith. Then take out their CA contract money for the next 12 months, loss of sponsorships etc (Warner will be seen hanging around the Hardly Normal TV screens soonish I should think) and it surely has to be maybe 4-5 mill just in the next 12 months. Following on from that it could very easily wind up to a $10mill or so hit.

That's gotta hurt!

Regardless of how well we might think Cricket Australia has or has not handled this, it has cost them (CA) very dearly indeed. They are right in the middle of negotiating new TV terms, Magellan has deserted them, and so it will go on. I think I read that it will cost CA around $20mill.

IMO they all as guilty as each other. Warner may have conceived the idea, but Smith condoned - and did nothing to stop it, and Bancroft would seem to have been a willing executor. Smith and Bancroft both had an opportunity to say "You WHAT?!!" to Warner.

Now that they are busted and broke, everybody is a cry baby. PFFFFTT! They had plenty of time to say "NO!". It only takes ¼ of a second or less, and that is all that was required.

Maybe I said it before, but this is not comparable to Faf du Plessis' lolly spit (or any of the other multitude of sweet-tooths). That is just a bit of temporary gloss - and I reckon more or less all teams are doing it (which means that there is no particular advantage to one team). What Warner conceived was an (intended) permanent and radical change to the ball. Can't even be compared to whoever it was the scraped the ball on the concrete drain when he picked it up - that was opportunistic.

The stupid thing is that, as a woodworker, I recognise that KERRAP yellow abrasive paper. I made the mistake of buying a roll once about 10 years ago. I really don't know how it is still being purchased. It was more than likely 120 grit, and it lasts for at least 1½ seconds. No small wonder that Bancroft said it didn't work....

If they wanted a real abrasive they could have used Warner's personality on it :D

[dazzler]

Simply reflective of Australia and it’s “whatever it takes” attitude that has seen us diminish in the worlds eyes.

Sad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Christos]

I am of the opinion that the banning is too harsh and then again I certainly don't think that cheating is to be passed by as something that happens.

I will admit that I love it when Australia wins at a competitive sport it brings out so much pride in my country. There has been times that even the last runner in a race has received just as big as a cheer one coming in first. I was fortunate enough to be at the final of the Paraolympic soccer match in Sydney in 2000. At the time it was the largest attended(12000 to 14000) soccer match for that type of event I don't remember who was playing and it did not seem to matter as the celebration between the teams after the match was just as exciting as the match. Both teams came onto the field to thank the crowd and the roar that followed encouraged them to keep coming back. We all watched as one fellow just kept coming back and we cheered again and again.

It is great to win and I also think it is so much more when you participate.

[truckjohn]

Trying to wrap my head around this sport a bit.... And it still sort of mystifies me how making an unsuccessful attempt to fiddle with a ball gets you banned - yet bludgeoning the opposing team's batter bowling 20 or 30 successive body and head shots is perfectly acceptable as a "normal" strategy... Not so much as a wink is even given by the sport.... I see pictures of these guys after a match and they come out with cracked ribs and blood blisters all over their chest and back...

I could easily see a case made hitting them low - in the hips or knees... Because the idea is to hit their legs or the wicket... But throwing for the head, neck, and upper chest? Really? I mean there's no chance of hitting their knees or the wicket even by mistake.... And I get that occasionally one gets away... But watching 20 successive shots at a batter's head is absolutely beyond the pale.... None of my money or support will go to the sport until they clean it up.. Sure - the batter has a helmet on... But getting beaned by a fellow like Curtly Ambrose would still leave you seeing stars.....

[BobL]

I could easily see a case made hitting them low - in the hips or knees... Because the idea is to hit their legs or the wicket... But throwing for the head, neck, and upper chest? Really? Sure - the batter has a helmet on... But getting beaned by a fellow like Curtly Ambrose would still leave you seeing stars.....

The greatest numbers of "outs" are from balls caught by a fielder off the bat - usually a faint "nick" of the edge of the bat . Balls bowled at chest height are much harder to defend or score from, so the ball has a much greater chance of taking and edge off the bat up into the air and be caught. If the batsman eye is in and the bounce is true the batsman nay perform "hook" shots over their shoulders, if the balls are swinging or there's irregular bounce its much harder to do this.

Back to the ball tampering issue, I was listening to an ethicist on the radio talking about this and he commented on that fact that the seemingly harsh penalties may reflect the fact that Australians pride themselves on not cheating and are amongst the first to shout long and loud when someone else does. Then when caught with their own hands in the "cookie jar" they feel like they should apply much greater penalties than anyone else.

[FenceFurniture]

The idea is that the batters are exceptional athletes and are able to get out of the way with their excellent reflexes - or they are good enough to be able to hit the ball with one of their chosen stroke selection. So that makes it a somewhat risky bowl to deliver in terms of potentially giving runs away.

Sometimes there is just nothing can be done to evade a delivery. The batters have significant padding (these days), and helmets were introduced in the late 70s. Mind, the current high-tech helmet of the time didn't save Phil Hughes a few years ago when he got hit behind the ear. He was dead before he hit the ground - revived - life support turned off a couple of days later.

It used to be that "bouncers" (high body shots) were never bowled to the other bowlers when they were batting, as they were regarded as not skilled enough to evade the high balls. As helmets got better, money got higher etc, it became that anyone was fair game for a bouncer - probably from around 15-20 years ago. Nowadays there is a limit of 2 balls per over that can be above the batter's shoulder, where previously (when only batters were fair game) you could probably send down a whole over (6 deliveries) if you wished. Any 3rd or subsequent high delivery now is deemed as a "no ball" which has a one run penalty and must be also repeated. Continuation of this will result in the bowler being warned, and eventually not be allowed to bowl any more (at all).



Certainly I understand how those unfamiliar with the game can see this as possibly a blood-sport, but it also attests to the bravery and skill of the batters. At the highest level (between two national teams) it is called Test Cricket, and it is just that - a test of many things.

There have also been plenty of injuries to people being hit by the ball after the batter has hit it. There are a couple of fielding positions that use the adjective "Silly" in their description. Silly Mid-on, Silly Mid-Off, Silly Point. This is because they are between 2-4 metres from the batter in front of him. These days they use a helmet, and quite often a "Box" as well to protect the nether bits.

[Chesand]

I am of the opinion that the banning is too harsh.

I tend to agree given the penalties handed out in the past for similar offences by others.
Hopefully Australia has now set the bar for any future indiscretion by anyone.
I think the players involved have shown some character by accepting their penalties and hopefully we can consider them for selection in the future

[FenceFurniture]

Frankly I don't think the penalties are too harsh - regardless of any precedents that have been set. This was a pre-meditated idea, discussed amongst at least two of the players with the Captain condoning it by omission (Jim Maxwell says that he understands that Steve Smith said "I don't want to know about it").

Then, a tool to deface the ball was actually concealed on Bancroft's person - so deliberate was the intent.

That is a very far cry from dragging the ball across the concrete drain as you happen to pick it up, or a bit of temporary lolly spit (which I'm sure everyone does - so no advantage - but should not be tolerated).

As I think I stated before, in Warner's case CA are probably sick of the high maintenance involved with him. I also get the feeling that the harshness of these penalties had at least something to do with trying to end the current foul culture in the Australian team.

The coach, the captain and the vice captain are all gone. I doubt it will be long before some of the administrators are gone too. Let the new broom do its work, and let the penalties be a strong discouragement to what became an ugly representation of the spirit of Test Cricket.

Cricket is not just a game - it's a culture, and breeds (or is supposed to) fair play in a gentlemanly sport (what's the unisex word for gentlemanly?). Neither race, nor colour nor creed are a problem (which is a bit weird coming from the English of the time, but....). And so it has been - even back in 1960/61 when Australia was hardly what you'd call multi-culturally advanced or tolerant of coloured people, the West Indian team were fantastically popular here. Every single one of them were as coloured as our own indigenous peoples. Cricket overcame the natural prejudice of White Australia.

Smith, Warner and Bancroft knowingly and deliberately tarnished that image very badly indeed, and so should be penalised suitably.

[Handyjack]

From my understanding, the trio (Smith, Warner and Bancroft) are suspended for bringing the game into disrepute. As such I think the penalties are fair and any fall out (loss of future earnings) goes with it. Yes they can all be good batsmen on their day, but to try and "win by any method" when the chips are down and been unable to buy a heap of runs (or wickets) is "just not cricket".
Would you like them in your local club? To score runs or show members how to bat - yes, but not how to deliberatly alter the ball or distract the opposing team.