Ya wanna ute?

[ivanavitch]

First the story

My young bloke (may his rear end be kicked up around his neck for scaring the daylights out of his dear mother) elected to steer his year old Mazda3 into the end of a guard rail, rather than harm poor old skippy. Skippy stood by and watched the guard rail disappear through the front guard, gearbox, front suspension, left hand guard etc to the sound of popping airbags, seat belt tensioners and tearing metal. He walked away with no scratches and no visible bruises. Not bad for a 100kph encounter with taxpayer funded roadside accessory.

Now the question.
He's got his heart set on a ute. FORD or HOLDEN? We are both supercar fans with leanings towards the blue oval, but parting with 30K should be a head decision rather than a heart.

How do they size up? Is the Ford plastic tray serviceable. Is it better to go for the full metal jacket of the General. How do they both hold their value. I think he really wants the XR6. How do you rate the Holden in the looks department.

Whatever the decision we are still off to the mountain next weekend for the annual religious pilgrimage and will still be barracking for the Fords.

I'll put my money where my mouth is and call the result - Ingall and Murphy with a boxing of Seaton and Lowndes for third.

regards

John Scott

[doug the slug]

He's got his heart set on a ute. FORD or HOLDEN?


How about a nice orange Triton ute??

[E. maculata]

Not sure how much help I'll be but I'll relate the tale anyhow.
Young Jackaroo/cowboy (the real thing I might add) mate of mine diehard holden nut, 4 kingys in shed, two utes 1 202 & 1 308 both HJs, came into around seventy grand went to town to buy the best ute he could.....
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and came home a few weeks later with an XR8??????? :eek:
apparently the general wasn't in the hunt as far as all round value and options.

[ele__13]

its gotta be a holden Stuff the ford C*&P .... but hey ive been a holden lover since day one my daddy was a holden Mech !!! .... as much as Craig is a great guy and family friend he drives for the wong team these days cheers jules and buy a real car !!!!!! its gotta be a holden or a Subaru !!!!!!!

[Wood Butcher]

My Dad recently purchased a holden VY trayback ute for work and is now regretting the decision. It has been back on warranty 4 times now for varying things and it is not that comfortable to drive. The mirrors do not go far out from the body enough to se what is behind you and the fuel comsumption is horrific (my '91 triton is comparable).
Just my thoughts on the subject :D

[Daddles]

Why on earth would he want a Holden? Erk. Horrible things. Stick with the Falchoon - much more betterer in every respect.

Richard

[Schtoo]

Seriously? You really want to know what I suggest?

I had a Hilux diesel 4WD.

And I really wish I still had it. Cheap to run, very little trouble (popped a diff after 300,000km or so), nice enough to drive, kept me out of trouble with Dan P's crowd, just a really good old bus.

However, I'd give my lefty for one of them turbo ford things from what I hear. Offer only stands if it ends up on my doorstep... ;)

[Harry72]

Id advise buy whats best deal on the day...
And never buy a tub/style side ute because they are useless buy a tray top, I learnt the hard way brought a new BA V8 falcordoor style side... aboslutley useless if you intent to use it as a ute ya cant fit bugger all in thats long or big in size, you cant load anything on with a fork lift without stuffing about with lifting slings.
Tray back utes are way better for work anyday... but if its just a town/sports ute that'll only ever carry small weight/size stuff that can be handled by hand go the style side.

[Gingermick]

If has crashes at 100kph then I'd be insisting he buy either a goggo mobile or a scooter or something else that can't reach 100.

[DanP]

If he can't keep a Mazda 3 on the road, how will he go in an XR6.

I would get the Holden. Ford XR8 is faster (top speed) than the SS (DAMHIK) and is slightly more comfy to sit in, but the SS holds the road MUCH better. That's what I've found in sedans anyway.

Dan

BTW. From experience, he's lucky the rail didn't end up in (or through) his lap.

[Zed]

I suggest a toyota 4x4 king cab with alu or steel tray, you can chose your engine. otherwise the the holden rodeo v6 4x4 or 2x4.

my toyo 4x4 2.7Petrol is great. recomend it highly.

I understand that the holden ss utes are wank mobiles and cant haul that much and the fords a prone to breaking down, hwever the leaf springs do make them a genuine one tonner.

whats your son want the ute for; wanking or working ? all the serious tradies I know have mazda and toyo utes.

whatever you do dont let him get a 4 cyl with a psuedo-muffer you can get your arm in up to your armpits - WOFTAM!

cheers...

[JDarvall]

You want a ute !!!!!!

Bloody hell ! ...thats a bit rude isn't it, coming onto complete strangers like that. :mad:

I'm already spoken for , thankyou very much ! :mad:

[Ashore]

You want a ute !!!!!!

Actually its

Ya Wanna ute ?

Which I think is some Native American Dance http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif



The trouble with life is there's no background music.

[ivanavitch]

Thanks guys
I think he is set on the ford.

Dan
That was the bit that scared the c**p out of me. Because of airbags, seatbelts, crumple zones and all the rest he probably doesn't realise how bloody lucky he was. As previously stated he needs his rear end kicked. Our insurance company offers good deals on driver training post actually getting your licence. I'll have to get back on his case. Because he has had his licence for a while now he probably thinks he knows more than me and I just get his back up when I try to correct a few of the little habits he is developing.

Are the insurance company sponsored driving courses worth it - not worth money, but actually teach them something? Any statistics on increasing their safety awareness, and ability to keep themselves alive?

Harry
It will mainly be a transport to work/weekend hack. Nothing larger than an 8x4 sheet which their brochures say will fit between the wheel arches.

[RETIRED]

Are the insurance company sponsored driving courses worth it - not worth money, but actually teach them something? Any statistics on increasing their safety awareness, and ability to keep themselves alive?

They are if the lessons sink in.

I have done a few defensive driving courses and the lessons learnt in car control are worth it BUTsome people come away with the attitude that I can go quicker now because I have learnt how to get out of trouble.

They don't realise that in most cases they still don't have the ability or experience to "read" the situation correctly and get into more strife,

[Schtoo]

, sounds like a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, huh?

The structure of the course itself will define if it's worthwhile in real life or not. As in all things, some are good and some are bad. Usually, if they show you how to get into AND out of trouble, it's worthwhile. I don't know any of the good ones anymore. Sorry.

As for me, I know I am probably not a great driver, and maybe never will be. But I do drive within my capabilities, I don't want to die in a &^$^% car thank you very muchly. And compared to most of the clowns over here, I am fantastic! :eek:

BTW, My Toyo had a steel bullbar that always had a slight upward lean. Very, very small lean, but it was there.

I am also sure there was some grey fur in there still, after washing it 10 million times... ;)

[maglite]

I may or not be able to help.

I own a BA falcon ute XLS. Bloody good vehicle fullstop.
I couldnt justify the extra 5K for the S holden ute.

Apparently the only thing that is different in the Ford utes or the range for that matter versus XR6 is the sports chip and the fact that all of the high performance fords require premium unleaded.
From what i have been told the XR's run a different chip...thats it and it aint worth 10K extra.
My ute cruises very well at the speed limit, i have taken it to the upper level and i never want to go there again unless i wake up as a 21 year old....know what i mean?
The bloody thing holds 3rd at 150 k's doing 2000 rpm......scar stuff and i have been driving for a lot of years....i dont know about the holden...probably the same.
Saving grace for the falcon is that engine cut off kicks in at 180...dont ask me how i know ;) .
Personal choice in the end but i would buy a ford again simply cos it isnt as popular as the holden and the sale price reflects this but the resale price doesnt.
Cheers
Steve

[maglite]

I was lucky.

i practically gre up on a farm and learnt the basics of driving when i was about 13.
replacing broken fencelines taught me the rest, cost i had to replace the b***rds.
I think the real trouble lies in that young people who learn to drive in a city situation are never prepared for a country driving scenario.
it may be wild life but in the most part, and i cant speak for other parts of the country, the road shoulders in the city are an average 1 - 1.5 inches below the level of the tarmac, so if someone over corrects the damage is limited save for a bit of landscaped areas.
Here, in the country, trees stand at most 3m off the edges of the tarmac and in a lot of cases the gravel has been eroded from the the sides of the road, person runs off road, panics, tries to correct, cant, pulls on hand brake...itsd all over.

When i was a probationary driver the speed limit was 80 kmh and if u got caight driving at a faster speed you lost your licence.....now young kids can drive at the speed limit with very little or no experience on how to handle a motor vehicle when things get grim......and they panic.

No easy solution i reckon...people will always get killed on the roads ....just a fact of life

I hope that this made sense.
Steve

[JDarvall]

They are if the lessons sink in.

I have done a few defensive driving courses and the lessons learnt in car control are worth it BUTsome people come away with the attitude that I can go quicker now because I have learnt how to get out of trouble.

They don't realise that in most cases they still don't have the ability or experience to "read" the situation correctly and get into more strife,

I think your right. Ultimately IMO I think the problem of inexperienced drivers won't be improved on UNLESS they experience personally exactly what will happen if they don't drive properly.

Maybe, as silly as it sounds, a crash simulator is the go. A device that all must ride, in addition to a defensive driving course, to get their licience.

And no fun rollercoaster type simulator either; Some kind of hydrolically driven box that throws them wildly about inside; to the point where they get mild wiplash or something like that. Sounds extreme, but something like this is definetly needed to impact heavily on a young drivers memory, that forces them to stop thinking like kids.

Because thats the main problem isn't it ? Kids by nature arn't going to drive like miss Daisy. Are they ? Never will, doesn't matter how many old wise blokes tell them otherwise.

[Eastie]

If you are set on a 6 then it would be the xr6 - as much as I could never recommend buying one (I had one that was a complete Friday arvo lemon). I found the xr's handle better than the s, but if it were an 8 I'd swing the other way. I looked at an ss early this year, and I'm happy that given fuel price rises since then that we chose a forester turbo instead.

The plastic tray insert has it's pro's and con's. They are difficult to damage but are slippery as hell so everything needs tying down. If you cart gravel or sand they are great protection but are a pain as you can never get it all out from between the grooves without hosing it out. The payload of both are limited, but I occasionally had 2/3 of a scoop of quarter minus in the back and for all the weight and sagging it never bottomed out or lacked the ability to accelerate with ease. The one thing I loved about the xr was the semi-auto gear box - quite a lot of fun. If I had the choice of a current model s or an xr, I would pocket most of the money and buy a trailer - at least I could be guaranteed of a quality trailer.

[Clinton1]

When I learnt to drive "officially" (being a country lad I learnt on the farm very early) I had to do a defensive driving course and was shown the crash pics by the Qld Traffic Incident Response blokes.

After seeing those photos, the defensive driving stuff sank in and I've been very conscious of the result of crashing ever since. Not so much for me - yep there was a kiddie in one of the photos. :(
Subsequently, 1 speeding ticket in 11 years, and that was on a strange road where I was taking in the view a little too much. 4 km over the limit. Thats it. And I thought that I was a spanker for speeding.

Those photos really have an effect. Are they shown on the courses now... or can you pull a quiet one with the local boys in blue?

Mind you I did get the '84 Toyota Corona up to @ 200 km on the open limits highway up in the NT. I think the 1/2 melted ashphalt helped hold me down on the bumps.

[DanP]

A well taught advanced driving course can save lives. However, as says, it can also give young inexperienced drivers that 'bulletproof' attitude that sees too many young people in the morgue.

All young drivers are inexperienced and are a risk on the roads, whether they stick to the road rules or not. They just don't have the experience to know what to do when a car does something they did not expect it to do.

IMO it's time we stop training 16 and 17 year olds to get their licence and start training them how to drive. I think that all learners should do time in a skid pan to get a feel for what to do when you lose traction. Some hot heads will use the knowledge to improve their circle work but ALL of them stand a chance of correcting a skidding car.

BTW there are HUGE liability issues with showing photo's of fatal accidents to teenagers and I think the cons far outweigh the pros. I have seen far more than my fair share of shocking fatal accidents and some of them have made me wonder if I really want to continue in the profession that I love. I have never had a family member die in an accident but the thought of someone showing pictures of one of those accidents to others makes me sick.

Dan

[Cliff Rogers]

I nee'da know why he didn't just run over the flam'n roo.... sheeezze we've got a cop'la million more where that one came from & don't give me the 'greenie conservationist' raspberry sheyet... the hawks & crows need something to eat. :rolleyes:

[boban]

Why would you need anything more than the standard tradesman ute with the alloy tray? The rest of the models are a bit of wank really. Work vehicle remember. No need to go 180kph to work or take that corner at breakneck speed.

I had the AU ute and never had a problem.

[Cliff Rogers]

Why would you need anything more than the standard tradesman ute with the alloy tray? .....I had the AU ute and never had a problem.

At what age woz that? :rolleyes:

testosterone (sp) or as Major would spell it.... duck-brain? :D

[boban]

I hear you Cliff. I was 32 I think.

I've got a mate, a concretor with a $55K black ute. He can't put a thing in the back. Its so low he has to drive into rollback driveways on an angle. My only question is why he didn't just buy the sedan version.

[Cliff Rogers]

...I've got a mate...with a $55K black ute.....

Hmmm... I think the bloke that measured up for the glass for our bathroom had the same ute, he didn't even smoke in it but he didn't care two hoots about lighting his smoke at our place. :rolleyes:

[Gaza]

holden ss utes are wank mobiles ..

Well that makes me a wanker then,

They are for work but not to have the guts kick out of them kind of work, i load mine up all the time and even put 6mt lengths of timber on the factory sports bars which are non-load bearing.
Its a cool car to drive but bloody fast and you have to drive like an 80 yr old or you will kill your self.

My beast is a 2001 model delivered in june and was ordered in late 2000, we paid top dollar for it and money wise have not come off the best but its a great work car. I drive around to the jobs pick up materials and tools, we work on big sites where we have site boxes that stay on site for the length of the project so i only take home really expensive gear at night like laser levels and Festool saws.

As for a full on work ute you are dreaming, we also have a 92 commodore ute that we use to carry heaps of gear plus, we pick up the heavy stuff with the our 8 ton truck.

When we get more work next year (we slowed down this year so i could finish my degree) i plan to get a tool trailer or buy a 2 tonne truck to kit up with boxes and racks.

I will not sell my beast we almost own her now and she we will do as a work car but i have my eye out for a new "weekend car" within the next year or so. and that will be a real wanker mobile....

[Eastie]

Don't worry - Zed must have been spanking his monkey (again) and had it on the brain :D

[rick_rine]

Thought I'd do some research for y'all and went downt the pub this arvo . Asked the girl next to me , "ya want a ute " found myself being slapped really hard . Dunno why .

[oges]

I quite like the look of the Proton Jumbuck, seems a nice sized ute.

[Harry72]

Apparently the only thing that is different in the Ford utes or the range for that matter versus XR6 is the sports chip and the fact that all of the high performance fords require premium unleaded.
From what i have been told the XR's run a different chip...thats it and it aint worth 10K extra.

Afraid not the drivetrain in the XR6 and the XLS6 is identical, no chips about it. If you were to say XR6T yes then there is a different chip and turbo associated parts obivously.
The 10K xr v's xls cost is a bodykit, wheels, suspension, brakes, interior changes(little)personaly i dont think its worth it, as the xls is a good package anyway espesh if you get a tray top with ladder racks.(and better load cap xr=650kg xls tray=1100kg)

[Dan]

The 10K xr v's xls cost is a bodykit, wheels, suspension, brakes, interior changes(little)personaly i dont think its worth it, as the xls is a good package anyway espesh if you get a tray top with ladder racks.(and better load cap xr=650kg xls tray=1100kg)
Back when I got mine (XR8), aircon, ABS and LSD was an option on XLS but standard in XR range, not sure if this situation has changed but it made the price difference more acceptable.

And the XR8 was the only one one that had the lump in the bonnet :D