Need help with finishing 2x4 treated pine bench

[barrysumpter]

Was trying to sort this out myself.
But I'm out of my depth on how to finish this 2x4 treated pine bench.

Liquid Nails together with 65 mm brad nails to keep in place while drying.

sanded down with decent sized gaps.

Is there a cheaper solution to fill the gaps before sanding, staining and sealing?

Many thanks in advance.

[barrysumpter]

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f198/epoxy-resin-cracked-black-heart-sassy-boards-202713?highlight=expoxy

Elsewhere ...
"...epoxy resin like Boatcote or WEST thickened with the filler that they each sell to the consistency of putty..."

[ian]

Barry, Barry, Barry

we need some context and pictures before we attempt to answer your question.

Is it a work bench? a bench for the potting shed? a bench seat for the garden? a work table for somewhere? a bench for inside the house?

[barrysumpter]

Thanks to all interested parties.
Much appreciated.

Garden Bench Exposed to the weather. 24 x 7

I plan on using a heavy duty tarp. But don't tell my lady. As she doesn't like the look.

Ripped the curved seat and crosscut the sides at angle to ease the sanding.

I had clamps and weights on it for 6 days to find there was more separation than I expected.

And found the liquid nails squeeze out to still be soft to the touch.

Am I looking at another $150+ to weather proof this?

Thanks in advance.

P.S.
Is there a reason I STILL CAN'T select, upload and insert more that one photo at a time?



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[ian]

Barry, I think you might be best advised to rip it apart and start again.

From here, it looks as though each piece of 4 x 2 is a different thickness -- which should be expected unless you allowed the material to dry fully and dressed it before use.

I'm thinking that your design might be better with DESIGNED gap of 4 to 5 mm between adjacent bits of 4 x 2.

Epoxy filler will probably work, but I'm thinking you'll need more than $150 worth

[barrysumpter]

Ok thanks anyway.

[Robson Valley]

Pines have very well developed resin ducts in the wood.
The duct is a hollow tube of cells, the resin is a complex of very flammable turpenoids and so on.
Heated in a campfire, they do literally explode.
Not your problem.

Instead, outdoors with the heat of your sunshine, some of those turpenoids will begin to vaporize
and that expanding gas will push resins out of the ducts - the wood will sweat pine pitch.
This will push right through just about any finish. That is no fun to sit on or in even for the stained clothing.

Besides a finish, you'll need some sort of sacrificial and temporary covering.

[barrysumpter]

Thanks for the verbose reply.

Treated pine is heat and pressure treated.

We do plan on using seat cushions.

What else would you suggest?

[Fuzzie]

Is there a reason I STILL CAN'T select, upload and insert more that one photo at a time?


I use a desktop and a netbook. I let everything pretty much update automatically. Accessing the Forum from the desktop allows me to upload multiple pictures at a time. The netbook only allows me to choose and upload one pic at a time.

I haven't investigated it but I think it might have something to do with which Flash Player version is installed. It's either that or the Java version, or the desktop screen size......

[Robson Valley]

Not a thing. Put it out in the sun and watch what it does.

Shade temps at my house this year have swung from a top of +47 to a low of -33C.
Outdoor wood in the sun gets Sikkens Cetol finish for durability.

[barrysumpter]

Thanks Franklin,
I didn't want to have to break out a can of System Testing yet again.

Robson,
Where do you live? On Crematoria?
I'll have a look for Sikkens Cetol.


The Wood Whisperer built an outdoor table and benches.
A year later he sanded down and used Epoxy Resin I believe.
But he was adamant about it not being cheap.

[barrysumpter]

... Barry, Barry, Barry
...

Thats Bear-ry! Bear-ry! Bear-ry!

[44Ronin]

Wrong glue for a start!

[barrysumpter]

Sure
https://www.bunnings.com.au/selleys-320g-liquid-nails-construction-adhesive-3-pack_p1236505

[Robson Valley]

In the right-hand corner of my posts, it still reads McBride, BC. A little mountain village of 650.
We have no more than 2m snow piled along the street. I grow grapes and do wood carving.
PhD Botany/Wood Science/LaTrobe.

Sikkens Cetol is very expensive and ultra stinky.
But to protect a $30,000,000 log home, I suppose I could over look the cost.

[barrysumpter]

Robson,
Any chance of a pic of the can you used?

Freakin 101 items from bunnings for Sikkens.:oo:

Woud I qualify this as a premium product?

[ian]

Ok thanks anyway.
Barry, what I think I am seeing are gaps where the material being glued together doesn't meet -- implying that you have used the liquid nails as a gap filler rather than an adhesive.
I doubt that as is you can gun any additional liquid nails into the gaps.
Opening the gaps up with a circ. saw or jig saw or router should create a gap wide enough that you could caulk it with a marine (or outdoor) caulking product -- I suggest black -- that will make the gaps look a design feature.

[barrysumpter]

Thanks Ian.
I had deduced the squeeze out was from clamping it really tight.


Am I looking too hard?
https://www.bunnings.com.au/polyfilla-450g-exterior-timber-filler_p1210571

[ian]

Barry
as far as I know, liquid nails, is a construction adhesive designed to be used in the form of "blobs" rather than as a continuous glue line.

I still think your best approach is to take the bench apart and start again. I suspect that the core problem is that the 4 x 2s aren't straight and square and a consistent thickness.
For the rebuild you could nail laminate the 4 x 2s together using 4 or 5 in long nails driven at a skew avoiding liquid nails altogether.

If this is unpalatable, I think your best approach is to open up the gaps and gun in a flexible sealant.

[barrysumpter]

Ok thanks again Ian.

[truckjohn]

A few tips....

You can get kiln dried pressure treated wood - but it is not normally common.. If you want to glue and finish it, I would recommend this. Check with a good lumberyard. If you don't - it can take a couple years to dry fully so it quits shrinking. The wet wood will shrink away from any epoxy or varnish coating - and this will cause finishes to crack, flake, and peel badly..

Next - pressure treated woods don't always take glue and stain evenly when fresh... The chemicals can cause stains to absorb unevenly - leaving a blotchy mess.. They tend to take stains much better after a year or 3 out in the weather..

All of that together - plus the continuous wet/dry/hot/cold cycles is probably a reason you see the typical construction used. Gaps mean the wood won't break other pieces loose when it swells or shrinks.. Screws mean pieces don't fall off when they move around...

[barrysumpter]

Selleys Liquid Nails Heavy Duty | Selleys Australia (http://www.selleys.com.au/adhesives/construction/solvent-adhesive/Selleys-Liquid-Nails-Heavy-Duty/)


How to use this product

Avoid contact with skin and eyes.
Surfaces to be bonded should be free of oil, grease and dust. On wet timber pooled water should be wiped off. Cut cartridge tip, fit nozzle and cut end to desired opening. (Approx 5 mm diameter).

WET BOND METHOD

Direct a bead along the length of the joist, stud or batten. On broad flat surfaces apply beads every 40 cm. (‘zig-zag’ beads are more appropriate on surfaces of moderate width; eg shiplap panels.)
Fix with sufficient nails, screws or clamping to hold load and achieve contact over the total bond area. Wet bonds are repositionable for up to 15 mins after fitting.
Allow adhesives to set (at least 8 hours) before removing any temporary fasteners or clamping.(Refer to Bond Strength Time.)
CONTACT BOND METHOD – for faster grab

Apply a bead to one surface only, press together and pull apart.
Allow surfaces to dry 2-4 minutes before firmly joining. Surfaces should not be kept apart for longer than 10 minutes as to do so will impair bond strength
Flooring:
When fixing sheet flooring (e.g. particleboard), use in conjunction with flooring manufacturer’s installation specifications for minimum nailing requirements. Note: To eliminate squeaks in tongue and groove flooring, use Liquid Nails Heavy Duty in conjunction with mechanical fixings.

Handy tips

Time for strong bond depends on nature and condition of application. In most situations^ strong bond can be achieved after 8 hours and will continue to strengthen over a 2-3 day period. Full cure can take up to 7 days.
^Curing is achieved by evaporation of solvent. The time required to achieve the bond’s full strength is increased by: constant low temperatures; thick applications (joints) are used; wide areas are bonded; and when bonded surfaces are impervious (e.g. metals and dense timbers).

[FenceFurniture]

Over the last couple of years I have done or been part of a very great deal of outdoor construction projects using H4 treated pine. Profiles of 150x150, 200x100 and smaller.

We have used scores of tubes of Sikaflex Pro as a sealant, glue, and filler. As a glue it is very strong and there has been no evidence of joints breaking. As a filler it remains rubbery and so will expand and contract with the timber, but this also means that it will concave and convex as well (get over it).

It can be sanded and accepts paint readily.

It is expensive at ~$18 a tube, but can be had for less on eBay in a bulk box of 12 tubes.

No product that anyone on these projects has used comes even close to it.


For one joint which was two 150x25 H4 boards joined on the 25mm face I used Dominoes and Titebond 3, and the board was then painted. It faces north and gets all the elements. It has not degraded in 2½ years including the hottest summer on record.

[barrysumpter]

http://cabots.com.au/media/1210/cabots-exterior-project-guide.pdf

[barrysumpter]

The client (wife) settled on the polyfilla (for the price), New Jarra (for the colour) and Ultraclear (water based and very long lasting - planning on 5 coats)

https://www.bunnings.com.au/polyfilla-450g-exterior-timber-filler_p1210571
https://www.bunnings.com.au/cabot-s-4l-jarrah-water-based-deck-exterior-timber-stain_p1520175
https://www.bunnings.com.au/intergrain-ultraclear-1l-gloss-exterior-timber-finish_p1520102

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[barrysumpter]

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[Robson Valley]

Caterpillar to butterfly. Beautiful.

[truckjohn]

Thats's a fine looking bench you built there. I would hardly believe it was pressure treated lumber.

[ian]

:whs:

[barrysumpter]

Thanks to all for your continued support.

Much appreciated.

3rd of 5 coats of UltraClear.

Will have to improve on my staining technique.

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