How to remove old wall paper?

[artful bodger]

Does not look like this section of the forum gets much attention but it seems to be the right place to post this question.
I am faced with the job of getting rid of really old wall paper from rendered brick walls so that I can then paint the walls in an agreeable tone.
Any tips on how to remove old wall paper with the minimum of fuss and mess would be much appreciated.

[China]

Hire a wallpaper steam from a hire place https://www.bunnings.com.au/for-hire-wallpaper-stripper-4hr_p5470099

[Simplicity]

Unfortunately
It's a messy crapy did I say crappy job.
Are we talking smooth rendering like plaster all most or something a little more lumpy.
Removing from plaster usually involves using strong antidepressants and a steamer from a higher shop and a plastic scraper.
It's a very hard thing to put a time scale on some times it comes of in big sheets.
Other times it just hangs on for dear life.
Then also getting the left over glue scum of the walls.
It is sometimes easier to re plaster and quicker if it's just one wall.
I know it's not always an option.
And I'm possibly not being very helpful
One other option tho may be pricey sandblasting

Cheers Matt

[artful bodger]

Yeah, I saw that China thank you.
Was wondering if anyone had actually hired out that unit and had impressive results. Sometimes those ads look like ads for Big Macs where the picture never looks like the product.

[tonzeyd]

The effectiveness of the steam units highly depend on the age, quality of the wall paper and how it was applied originally, as Matt says its not a fun job. Its an aweful, messy and time consuming process depending on how much you do and you always tend to come back with a scraper/some kind of abrasive to get the wall in shape for a coat of paint

[Fuzzie]

It's been a while since I did it. The steamer is the only way.

[Chesand]

My son has recently removed a lot (admittedly from plaster board) and I ground a slight curve on the ends of the scraper so that the corners did not dig in.

[artful bodger]

Thanks for all the replies you guys.
Looks like I am in for an awful, messy and time consuming job.
The wall paper is old and looks to be good quality (they don't make it like they used to sort of stuff). I'll bet the glue holding it on is nuclear powered as well.

[Lappa]

My son did his 19th century house in London - layers upon layers. He scored gently due to the plaster underneath and used a steamer. He did mention that he used an enzyme based soaker. Don’t know the brand but I can find out. Bunnings has an enzyme base solution that may be similar.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/zinsser-650ml-dif-concentrate-wallpaper-stripper_p1710003

[Chief Tiff]

The steamer will shift the wallpaper no problem. The pastes used to hang it would have been water based so the hot steam penetrates it really well and softens it back to the consistency of the original paste; just scrape the whole lot off with a good quality METAL scraper. You will dig quite a few gouges; just accept them and move on.

Only drama will be if the paper is an easy clean washable type with a thin plastic coating; in which case go over it lightly first with the heaviest grit sandpaper you can get for an orbital or random orbital sander. You're not trying to sand through the coating; just enough to put a few tiny scratches in it so the steam can penetrate through to the paper; should take no more than a minute or two to go over a whole wall.

Put down lots of old sheets or what have you and start at the top of a sheet in the center of a wall; if the true gods of renovation are with you, you will be able to remove the whole sheet in one go. If you regularly watch The Block you may have to offer up your first born child as a penance as the paper will only come away in 2" squares.

You''ll be left with a wall covered in scungey paste that will scrub off with Scotchbrite and a bucket of water. And many, many little dings and gouges so invest in a small tub of Gyprock top coat and skim over them; unless you happen to enjoy individually giving them the love and attention that only a pot of Spakfiller can bring

[ian]

Unfortunately
It's a messy crapy did I say crappy job.
Are we talking smooth rendering like plaster all most or something a little more lumpy.
Removing from plaster usually involves using strong antidepressants and a steamer from a higher shop and a plastic scraper.
It's a very hard thing to put a time scale on some times it comes of in big sheets.
Other times it just hangs on for dear life.
Then also getting the left over glue scum of the walls.
It is sometimes easier to re plaster and quicker if it's just one wall.
I know it's not always an option.
And I'm possibly not being very helpful
One other option tho may be pricey sandblasting
so great advice there Matt.




born of bitter experience?

[Simplicity]

so great advice there Matt.




born of bitter experience?

Yep

[rob streeper]

If it's truly paper and not plastic you can pre-treat the walls with a light mist of water from a garden sprayer - helps the steaming work and facilitates removal of the less tightly glued up bits.

[artful bodger]

Time for an update here.
Hired one of the bunnings wallpaper steamer removers and with the 3 rooms in the house had 3 different outcomes.
Room 1 was difficult. The steamer helped to some extent however big lumps of the plaster? render came off with the paper. It made a mess of the wall and seems obvious that the plaster will need to be totally removed and re-rendered with perhaps a modern alternative.
Room 2 actually had 2 lots of wallpaper on it and was really hard going. Also used a perforater on these walls and it was most un-enjoyable. The remaining plaster render was too powderlike to paint with confidence so room 2 needs total render removal too....hip hip horay!.
3rd room was relatively easy in comparison. Was able to peel the wallpaper off with no steaming in nice long nearly whole sheets, then used the steamer for the underpaper. It looked as easy as it does in the bunnings website add for the machine.
I dont honestly think rooms 1 and 2 would have been any easier to do if they were done second and 3rd.
Have now got a new hatred for wallpaper.

[China]

Wallpaper is a curse on humanity I can not think of one good thing to say about it

[Cal]

Can feel your pain! I think the steamer would be somewhat more successful on a plasterboard wall that was painted prior to the wallpaper being installed, as the paint would act as a bit of a barrier for the paper and plaster in the boards. That being said, wallpaper is still a curse on humanity! I wish you luck with repairing the damage, it’s all up hill from here.

[tonzeyd]

Yep, my mother in law has a house that was built in the 80's every wall is covered in the stuff.

After much discussion with her about it, she's decided it'll be better if she just knocked down the entire house and sub divide.

Definitely glad she came to that conclusion as i wasn't looking forward to helping her remove the wall paper.

[artful bodger]

Yep, my mother in law has a house that was built in the 80's every wall is covered in the stuff.

After much discussion with her about it, she's decided it'll be better if she just knocked down the entire house and sub divide.

Definitely glad she came to that conclusion as i wasn't looking forward to helping her remove the wall paper.

That is funny. However I don't really want to demolish this house.

[artful bodger]

Today wifey and I decided to get rid of the plaster?, which was rendered over the cement render in room number 1.
Working on the Thai-Burma railway in WW2 would have been a worse job, but this could have been a close second.
Could not believe how much mess and dust the job made. At least we had good dust masks and eye protection.
This is what the walls looked like afterwards.
432529 Thankfully there were a couple of cracks in the wall to break up the monotony.432530.
The above shots and probably the rest are 90 degrees clockwise deficient, sorry about that...still have not worked out my phone.
Anyway was thinking of re-rendering these walls with a more modern product and then painting them however I am not familiar with the new products as this type of work is new to me.
The walls are still very dusty so I was hoping there is a type of sealer available to coat on before the fancy new render could be applied. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Of course I could go to the local new massive hardware store but the employees there are so young and would not in my mind have the experience to give the best advice.
The second room faired somewhat better after the wall paper removal. Sure there are some holes where the render came off with the wallpaper but am a bit reluctant to go the "Full Monty" and scrape off another bigger room of plaster render.
432531Second room looks like this, and this432532.
What would a professional do?.

[China]

If you seal the walls it will create problems getting the plaster to take hold vacuum the walls then brush with a damp brush, will remove most of the dust

[truckjohn]

I guess I am too late to the party and the dirty deed is done..

My recommendation (born also of experience) would have been to re-attach or cut off any loose sections of wallpaper. Leave all the rest. Sand the wall to remove any lumps and bumps then paint the whole thing (wallpaper and all) with a high quality primer. Skim coat the whole thing with drywall compound... Sand, re-prime and paint as per whatever makes you happy... Far far less work as you can see now vs basically tearing down and rebuilding an entire wall just to get the wallpaper off as you are halfway through now...

Where you are at now - strip all the old plaster and lath off the wall and put up sheet rock. That will give you an opportunity to inspect and update wiring, plumbing, and duct work inside the walls while you are in there if you are so inclined... It will go much faster and be significantly less expensive than trying to redo all the god-forsaken lath and plaster and then painting over that.. Groan.....

And then the lesson... Nothing good ever comes from taking down wallpaper...

And now - you can see how "Just painting a wall" can cost $10,000.... ;) ;) ;)

[ian]

My Sydney house was circa 1890s with rendered internal walls.
When we had the rising damp treated, the "plaster" repair involved redoing the cement render -- a step you can avoid -- which was topped with (from memory) a lime based plaster. The ultimate join between the old and new plaster was invisible.
In your case I think you will need to skim the walls with cornice cement or plaster board topping material and then sand the lot smooth. Then paint with a good sealer coat. This is where something like the $$$ Festool dry wall sander and vac pays for itself in terms of dust collection and ease of use. (I remember using a 1/2 sheet Bosch sander with dust hood connected to a Festo vac when smoothing a join in the kitchen located above the restoration work. Dust collection was good enough that there was no visible surface dust the following morning.)

[artful bodger]

I went in to town over the weekend to a reputable paint shop that has been operating for as long as I can remember. Hoping that they would have 20 litre drums of exactly the right "stuff" to trowel onto my stripped back cement rendered walls and also the walls that had not had all the plaster removed, only in patches.
The bloke at the shop said, "You will have to re-plaster the walls where they need it", then prime them with an oil based primer before painting.
"What!, the old fashioned powdered plaster of paris?" I asked.
"Yes", he said.
"Haven't they invented anything more modern".
"No".
He said I would have to go to Boral plaster to get the right stuff.
At Boral plaster today I explained what I wanted to do and the bloke told me I needed to use this stuff, Boral Hard Finish...but they did not have any in stock right now.
432873
They are ordering some in as a matter of course and the bloke gave me the data sheet.
I have used powdered plaster occasionally in the patternmaking trade 30 years ago and then again 20 years ago in slip cast ceramics work so have a basic understanding of how to mix it etc. However the flip side of the data sheet has got mixing and application specs that have me stumped.
432874 Mainly to do with mixing the pre-soaked hydrated lime (do you really need to pre soak) with the plaster at 1 part to 10.
Does that mean 1 part pre soaked lime to 10 parts dry or mixed plaster?. And what is lime putty and where would one get it?
Also in the application section, first dot point, it says "Apply Hard Finish in two coats over your selected basecoat or key".
I am wondering what a suitable basecoat might be over cement render?.
So many questions.
Hoping someone can enlighten me.
To make things clear. It is a double brick constructed house (no lath and plaster). The internal brickwork has been rendered with cement and has a fine wire mesh in it, then it has been plastered over. It is that plaster I have removed in one room that needs replacing. In another room the plaster is still there but there are patches where it has come off with the wall paper.

[ian]

soaking the Hydrated lime for 24 hours is about a chemical reaction which you need to either have underway or mostly completed before you mix the material into the plaster. (And it's so long since I did chemistry, that I don't remember what hat reaction is, sorry.)

applying over a base coat or key will be about bonding to the wall. Bondcrete (or PVA) might be a suitable base coat, but for a wall sized area, a physical key (a roughed up surface) is probably a better option.


also, watch the mixing proportions -- that data sheet uses both weight and volume.


I THINK that "lime putty" is a mixture of hydrated lime and water.

[truckjohn]

My friend - at this point, I recommend you talk with your Boral dealer and (and perhaps another plaster dealer) to get their recommendations for the top 5 professional plaster guys in the area... Most likely their lists will overlap...

I would then talk with them and find out cost, material required, and also the area preparation they require before starting (of course it costs extra if they have to spend a bunch of time on prep work to do it...).. And then hire this out...

It's also worth finding out if it would be cheaper if you stripped the whole thing and had them start from scratch... Often times it is quite a bit cheaper because their work goes MUCH faster starting from scratch. There is no trying to work around this or that... No work involved with getting new stuff to bond to old stuff, trying to save this or that section, multiple thin and thick section transitions that dry at different rates, etc.... They just come in, work, and done.

And then you have a nice flat uniform surface ready for painting....

[artful bodger]

My friend - at this point, I recommend you talk with your Boral dealer and (and perhaps another plaster dealer) to get their recommendations for the top 5 professional plaster guys in the area... Most likely their lists will overlap...

I would then talk with them and find out cost, material required, and also the area preparation they require before starting (of course it costs extra if they have to spend a bunch of time on prep work to do it...).. And then hire this out...

It's also worth finding out if it would be cheaper if you stripped the whole thing and had them start from scratch... Often times it is quite a bit cheaper because their work goes MUCH faster starting from scratch. There is no trying to work around this or that... No work involved with getting new stuff to bond to old stuff, trying to save this or that section, multiple thin and thick section transitions that dry at different rates, etc.... They just come in, work, and done.

And then you have a nice flat uniform surface ready for painting....

Thank you John but the guys at Boral did not actually have any of the special plaster in stock and to be frank they did not answer questions about the product with any visible/verbal confidence.Not trying to be critical of them, it's just that double brick walled houses seem to be a thing of the past and there is probably more chance of finding a "whale harpooner" than a hard plaster expert in town.
Plus I enjoy the challenge of having a crack at it myself.....for better or worse.

[rwbuild]

Use standard plasterboard base coat, use a wide trowel and trowel on but only thick enough to get a fairly uniform coverage over any imperfections. Let dry thoroughly, rough sand out any ridges, brush or vacuum wall then apply a thin uniform coat of drywall top coat. Let it dry thoroughly and sand out any ridges, check for any obvious imperfections, redo as required, sand and paint. Where the cracks are around the door jamb, when you apply the first base coat and while still wet cut a square of either bronze or aluminium fly screen gauze at least 200mm overlap of crack, trowel into wet base coat and skim again, just make sure that the gauze lays flat or it will lift, ironing with a hot iron and sandwich between 2 flat boards usually makes it lay flat or simply leave for a week between 2 boards. Hire a power vacuum sander for the final sanding.

Providing there are no major defects in the existing cement render base your combined base and final coat should only be about 5mm thick. Use the premixed final coat, its so much easier. If you have any major defects in the existing cement render, use cornice cent to bulk fill them first, sets quicker and sand next day.

I have done a job recently where I had to blend drywall to an old lime plaster wall and you cannot tell the difference or even see the join in any light, the only difference was I used standard fiberglass gauze to bond the 2 areas together.

[truckjohn]

Thank you John but the guys at Boral did not actually have any of the special plaster in stock and to be frank they did not answer questions about the product with any visible/verbal confidence.Not trying to be critical of them, it's just that double brick walled houses seem to be a thing of the past and there is probably more chance of finding a "whale harpooner" than a hard plaster expert in town.
Plus I enjoy the challenge of having a crack at it myself.....for better or worse.

I am the same way re: doing it myself...

I would still circle around and talk with the guys at Boral... While they don't know anything about how to use these products (they only sell them) - they likely know the contractors who do this sort of work....

To be honest - I have found that listening to the advice of salesmen about how to accomplish work using their products is generally a recipe for disaster... Often even buying based on what they say sends you off on a death march trying to get good results out of incomplete supplies or the wrong products...

If nothing else - having the conversation with a real working professional tradesman will give you an adequate Bill of Materials to buy based on what he uses out on the job... And the stuff he tells you to buy will be suitable to accomplish the work.

for example - the last poster included absolutely critical info about embedding fine wire mesh into joints to control cracks and get good adhesion.... That's gold.. But the sales guys probably have no idea at all...

[artful bodger]

Update time, just in case anyone is interested.
I took your advice John and asked for names of any "old school" plasterers at one of the suppliers.
I have a retired guy coming round tomorrow who is going to make up a batch of lime putty.
You just cant buy lime putty anywhere in town but it is an essential ingredient when using hard finish plaster (apparently).
It must be made a week in advance of the plastering.
The guy told me he makes a ring of the pre prepared lime putty and mixes the hard finish plaster inside it. Then I imagine he mixes it all together before rendering it on.
It's all new to me and must say it is nice to have someone who knows what they are doing on board.

[truckjohn]

Sounds like you are at least making some progress.

This is going to be a dumb question.... Is there a compelling techical reason you can't skim coat the cement render with standard drywall compound, sand smooth, and repaint? That may be a good question for your old plaster fellow...

I have done this very thing to recover a bathroom which the previous owner raped and pillaged by tearing down the old wallpaper off drywall and then painted over the torn and scarred mess - leaving an ugly, gouged painted surface.

The process (over old paint) is to paint with a quality primer. Then skim skim coat with standard sheet rock joint compound. Sand flat. Go over it a second time to fix any pits/bubbles... Prime, and then paint.

Similar things are done now with faux plaster finishes where they use tinted joint compound to resemble a plastered finish... The previous owners did this to my dining room... It looks like plaster but you can tell it is not when you touch it...

[artful bodger]

Ok, the old school hard/solid plasterer dropped in today and did room No1.
First he set up a table about 3 1/2 - 4 feet square which was a bit of form-ply on trestle legs.
Then he made a ring of lime putty.
Into the ring of lime putty he mixed up a batch of hard plaster, then he mixed the whole lot together.
He did one wall per batch of plaster. First doing a very light coat, then a slightly heavier coat and when it had set enough to his satisfaction he worked/trowelled up the surface to a finish that was literally "smooth as glass".
The photo, probably does not do the result justice. The finish was perfect. It took him 8 hours which included about 30 minutes for smoko.
434200434201434202434203434204
Room number 2 happens tomorrow.

[Enfield Guy]

Beautiful work.

[NCArcher]

No matter what it is, it is always a treat to watch a master craftsman at work.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

It's always nice to see someone who knows what they're doing.

At a guess I'd say he's used some modern additive to speed drying time because 8 hours to finish? :no:

Considering that 'true' lime plaster (as used in heritage resto work) is applied in 5mm layers with up to a fornight drying time each coat - tested by thumb pressure - he's not doing it 100% old school. I'm not saying that's a bad thing... I'm very, very sure that if the old school plasterers had access to some of our modern additives they most certainly would've used them! :D

[truckjohn]

I am glad to see this project has gone well. I am always amazed at how a pro can knock out a job quickly that takes me forever of fighting and cussing... Drywall/plaster is one good example... I can *eventually* get it looking decent - but it takes me a couple weeks in the same room of finding and fixing all the little boo-boo's and spots I missed before I finally just quit and move on.....

I am sure Mr. Old Plaster Man told our OP here all a out the procedure for allowing it to slowly dry so it doesn't crack. Even with modern additives - it still takes a while to get all the moisture out so you can paint it. I would let it sit a month it you can.....

[artful bodger]

It's always nice to see someone who knows what they're doing.

At a guess I'd say he's used some modern additive to speed drying time because 8 hours to finish? :no:

Considering that 'true' lime plaster (as used in heritage resto work) is applied in 5mm layers with up to a fornight drying time each coat - tested by thumb pressure - he's not doing it 100% old school. I'm not saying that's a bad thing... I'm very, very sure that if the old school plasterers had access to some of our modern additives they most certainly would've used them! :D




Hi Skewdam. The 8 hours was referring to how long it took the bloke to do the whole room. The plaster/lime putty mix took about 1 1/2 - 2 hours to set. He did it one wall at a time, mixing up a new batch for each wall. It was not just lime putty by itself, it was mixed with hard plaster that was purchased in powder form.
The retired plasterer really knew his stuff and worked like a Trojan. In fact on the second room he did not even take a break all day because he was worried he would seize up if he stopped. While he was working I asked him if he thought there was anyone else doing this type of work in the state today?.
"You are looking at the only one", he said.
I was so happy to have got the job done so well, by someone who actually knew how to do it that I paid him with an extra tip AND gave him a few of my items of woodwork that I sell through galleries as souvineers.
He told me the walls should be ready to paint in a couple of days which signaled the next moment of panic and frustration.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I was thinking more that a 1cm thick coat would take a fortnight just to apply but rereading your posts I'm guessing that you had a relatively flat base wall and he didn't need to render more than 5mm. A thin, wetting/priming coat and then a top coat?

Don't get me wrong, I'm no plasterer. But, working on resto's I've met many people with... interesting skill sets and I can't help but pick their brains and compare what they say to mah book learnin'. It's amazing how much practical info books either leave out or just plain downright get wrong, y'know? (This curiosity is one of the pitfalls of my being a JOAT, I guess. :D )


While he was working I asked him if he thought there was anyone else doing this type of work in the state today?.
"You are looking at the only one", he said.

That's dismaying. Another skill set that was once fairly common, now becoming a rarity.

Still, it sounds like you have good reason to be happy with the job and I wish you success with the rest of the job!