A Stamp!

[auscab]

A nice elderly Lady gives Me a restoration job.
A Georgian Oak Bureau in need of some repairs and a clean up with a wax finish .

Rob

[auscab]

I go over it with her and she tells me what she wants done . She is a through expert in the business of Antiques .

[auscab]

I decide who , in my workshop will do different parts of the work . All the preparation is given to the youngest apprentice and other more experienced guys will take over at the right times . The young fellow is working away on his part I think I had him vacuuming the inside clean, And he calls out from the other end of the workshop "A stamp ?? come have a look"

Rob

[auscab]

I stare into the right hand little drawer and see this .

[auscab]

He reaches in and grabs the bottom with a couple of fingers . I hadn't noticed it was a loose false bottom .

Rob

[auscab]

And He turned it over .

:oo:

[auscab]

I said What !!!

Any one Know what it is ?

Rob

[warrick]

1840 Penny Black Fine Used | Macquariemint.com (http://www.macquariemint.com/THEMES/Stamps/1840-Penny-Black-the-worlds-first-stamp-Fine-Used/408/productview.aspx)


Rick

[ian]

I said What !!!

Any one Know what it is ?authentication that the piece is Victorian, not Georgian?

[Fuzzie]

I'm no philatelist but my nose is thinking the postmark might look a bit modern?

[Redbog]

Ian,
Victoria reigned for 60 odd years, (died 1901 I think), so could well be 1840's.

Auscab,
Could it be the client is fiendishly checking your honesty? LOL!
HNY to all forumites cheers Redbog (Harry).

[dubrosa22]

1840-41 according to this website (after that they were red):
https://blog.arpinphilately.com/the-penny-black-how-to-determine-its-value/

[auscab]

1840 Penny Black Fine Used | Macquariemint.com (http://www.macquariemint.com/THEMES/Stamps/1840-Penny-Black-the-worlds-first-stamp-Fine-Used/408/productview.aspx)


Rick


Yep Rick that's what I thought.
I looked it up and printed this at the time , which was a value for a mint rare version .
I took it in and showed the guys and we had a discussion as to what we would do .

[auscab]

authentication that the piece is Victorian, not Georgian?


No , not really Ian . The Bureau was made well before the penny Black came out. They were made well before and after but 1840s construction , nails , screws , amount of handles that had been on the piece and replaced, direction of timber used in drawer bottom construction all point to Georgian . George 2 or early George 3 without looking it up.


Around the 1890s some people took up carving as a hobby , You see Oak furniture that was "carved up" as its known . Covered in 1890s / 80s carving . The stuff was every where to be had a cheap enough. There is an article on the practice in a back issue of The Australian Antique Collector ( I'm pretty sure that' where I saw it )
Its another story but just saying there was tons of this stuff around and still is .

Rob

[auscab]

I'm no philatelist but my nose is thinking the postmark might look a bit modern?

Yeah I never noticed that at the time Franklin.
Rob

[auscab]

Auscab,
Could it be the client is fiendishly checking your honesty? LOL!
HNY to all forumites cheers Redbog (Harry).

Good point Harry . Just like I pointed out to some of the guys younger than me at the time .

HNY Rob

[auscab]

1840-41 according to this website (after that they were red):
https://blog.arpinphilately.com/the-penny-black-how-to-determine-its-value/


Thanks dubrosa22. Interesting link.
Rob

[auscab]

So , we had a memorable conversation in the workshop at the time as to what we should do about the stamp . Funny how some of the young guys were telling me to take the stamp and sell it , divide the money and all would be great ! .

Me and some of the older guys were asking, "how we would be better of having a reputation for taking/ stealing a lady's stamp for some money" , and how the truth always comes out . No such thing as secrets and all that .

So I walked 3 minutes up the road , the owner wasn't far away, with the stamp and the print out and showed her what we had found.

She had a bit of a smile and said " you do the research and sale and we can go halves in it "

"thanks very much " I said and then went and told the guys .

"We can split Our half "

The younger guys said "Wow great" and we just kept going on about being Honest.

So I sent a picture off to London Sothebys Stamp department via email .

I got a picture sent back with a description next morning.

" Its a 1970 reissue that's been cut up "

Value . not a cracker :D

Walked back up and told the Lady Antique dealer . Her smile from before turned into a bit of a chuckle . Lovely :)

After doing a few searches on ebay UK later that day I found that you can buy originals , if you can trust the sellers :) for not huge amounts of money.

Well spotted Franklin .

See here https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xpenny+black.TRS0&_nkw=penny+black&_sacat=0
(https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xpenny+black.TRS0&_nkw=penny+black&_sacat=0)


Rob

[ian]

Rob, now that you've provided a little more information about the owner, I wonder whom the stamp is intended in impress. your lot or the next buyer?

[auscab]

If it was put there to impress and maybe get a higher price I 'd say it was someone in the UK who stuck it in before it went to auction. Or just someone who owned it before that . Nothing to do with the Dealer here though . She had to much going on to bother. She would go to the UK and sit through a lot of the local London Auctions to fill her containers. She may have had four or five such bureaus in a load with a lot of other stuff. I went over there three times with my Dad and followed him around doing the same . He was doing it a couple of times a year. You had to be careful of what was dished up over there from the dealers . A bit like that TV show Minder. Plenty of dodgy stuff going on for the unwary back then . items converted from wardrobes and being sold as the real thing is one I was amazed at . They were cutting down Large Victorian Break front Burl Walnut Veneered Wardrobes and Making attractive corner cabinets and bookcases from them . Trying to sell them as real Victorian beauty's to the Aussie of US dealers going through.

Rob