Osmo PolyX/top coat

[qwertyu]

What are people's thoughts on Osmo finishes? I see many timber suppliers only stock this stuff, particularly PolyX. Its an oil/wax blend and apparently really easy to maintain - put rub on another layer if its starting to wear. People are claiming that its as strong as polyurethane - as its used on flooring. Any thoughts?

(it does look good, but im just not sure if it protects as well as poly in terms of wear and things like putting a coffee on the table)

[hurcorh]

I like it personally. Use as directed though. I see a lot of people apply and buff off all excess but I think it's best to apply a slightly thicker coat using the osmo roller (you get good at applying without leaving any lines) or brush and after at least 24 hrs I light sand and then rub on a final coat for a very smooth finish. Even in porous timbers i've had good results with it.

I don't think of it as a replacement to standard poly or anything like that. Just an alternative. Both have their perks. For example, client wanted a table as close to 'natural' looking as possible. Used White oak and the Osmo Polyx "raw" for a finish that looks as if the timber is untreated. I ran tests after my application method with red wine on a sample piece for a few minutes then cleaned off with a damp cloth. No marks left on the timber. Good enough for me! Time will tell how it goes with the 'yellowing' which I am trying to avoid on this piece.

I've also used the satin on walnut, maple, QLD walnut, rosewood, oak, vic blackwood, tas blackwood, and like the finish it leaves on all of them. Maple dining table has no yellowing after 1 year in a sun lit room.

[Enfield Guy]

I'm a fan. Follow the instructions. A relatively expensive product apparently but it covers a much larger area than most finishes. Apply thinly and evenly. I have left overproof rum on a piece overnight. Wipe off in the morning, no mark. Do not sand higher than 240 grit, 180 is adequate for most applications. Wittles product is similar though I have not used it. Buy a small tin and use it. In Qld it does not like being on shelf sitting for weeks. Refrigeration retards " going off in the can". Best just use it though.

Cheers

[Twist]

Do you think there is any downside to applying Osmo PolyX to wood that has been sanded to 320?
The reason I ask is because I have already sanded a piece of Redgum to 320, I was going to finish with an oil but now I'm thinking I'll give Osmo a go. I've already done a test on the backside which was sanded to 180 and I'm happy with it.

Would going over the sanded front side with 180grit have the same effect as sanding to 180grit in the first place? Never considered back sanding before.

[Enfield Guy]

Dunno, Prolly not, try and find out. I'd reckon the only thing I would do differently is I would wipe off and I would prolly allow for three coats.

I'm no expert. Different people have different methods.

[Alkahestic]

Do you think there is any downside to applying Osmo PolyX to wood that has been sanded to 320?
The reason I ask is because I have already sanded a piece of Redgum to 320, I was going to finish with an oil but now I'm thinking I'll give Osmo a go. I've already done a test on the backside which was sanded to 180 and I'm happy with it.

Would going over the sanded front side with 180grit have the same effect as sanding to 180grit in the first place? Never considered back sanding before.

Osmo instructions are not to sand to too fine a grit as it stops the wood from being able to absorb the finish. If you rough it up with 180 it should work fine.

[aarggh]

I've been looking at the Osmo Poly-X too for some wooden drink coasters, and although it's insanely expensive (although what in OZ isn't?), if it does the job I don't really mind terribly, but it seems descriptively very similar to Cabots Danish Oil, a mix of solvents, polyurethane, and oils. Has anyone found it gives a similar finish to Cabots, or is it superior to it?

I'm after an oil look finish with a hard wearing surface, that can take the heat of coffee cups and the occasional spill without going white, and from the blurb it seems it might fit the bill?

cheers, Ian

[hurcorh]

Something a little more hard wearing such as the osmo Top oil would be more suitable. Finish is similar to that of the Osmo Polyx in my opinion no comparison to danish oil in finish. A lot less of a 'yellow' finish. Not as thick of a finish either.

[aarggh]

That Osmo Top Oil looks good thanks, it would be a fair assumption if it's designed for benchtops it should protect well hopefully.

Does Osmo stuff go funny from air exposure like Cabots Danish Oil and other similar ones, or does it last well in the tin without turning to gel or crap?

cheers, Ian

[homey]

Ian,

PolyX is nothing like Cabots Danish Oil. No polyurethane, it’s mainly a wax and oil blend. I use it a bit for boxes. I apply a thinnish coat, wait 20 minutes (less if the weather is warm), wipe off before it becomes sticky. Leave overnight, repeat the next day.

Peter Parfitt (new Brit Workshop) in the UK has made a couple of YouTube videos about this stuff. Worth a look.

I used some today. Looks like molten wax in the tin, quite thick, but only apply thinly. Seems to last well in the tin.

Here’s a walnut box finished with PolyX. This finish has been on the box for about a year:

431632

This finish is very popular with furniture makers (and boxmakers) in the UK.



Cheers,

Brian

[hurcorh]

I haven't left too much Osmo around to turn in the can but a good spray of Bloxygen or the cheaper version, air in a can, will stop that. I apply Osmo as per instructions. Using Osmo roller. More durable finish in my opinion. Doesn't have to be a thick coat though.

[Enfield Guy]

Roller is the way to go with most things. The key is a THIN thorough coat. Raking light and looking from a low angle helps when looking for dry patches. If you are getting dry patches then don't preroll so much, allow the roller to be slightly wetter. Start with less finish and work up to where you need to be would be my advice. And experiment, document and count. All these things are useful.

Cheers
Bevan

[qwertyu]

Anyone ever try bunnings roller instead of the osmo one?

https://www.bunnings.com.au/uni-pro-100mm-microfibre-roller-cover-2-pack_p1560238

[hurcorh]

I found the finish to be a little bit 'lumpy' in comparison and the fibers fell out a lot easier from my experience.

[qwertyu]

Thanks. Have you tried any other non-osmo branded microfibre rollers?

They seem to be over priced

[hurcorh]

I've used a few different brands from bunnings, mitre 10, online, etc. Stick with the osmo ones now. I clean them and take good care of them so they last a lot longer. Wrap in alfoil between coats then wash up after I'm finished the piece.

[FenceFurniture]

What's the washup - turps?

[Enfield Guy]

Yup Turps.

[VikingCode]

The Monarch Razorback (requires their frames) from Bunnings (https://www.bunnings.com.au/monarch-razorback-100mm-microfibre-mini-roller-refill-10-pack_p1670295)are good for PolyX & the coloured woodwax.
The ones CWS sell specifically for PolyX are considerably worse, and I could not get a consistent finish with those. Good for acrylic paints though.

For cleaning the OSMO or Monarch rollers, roll out as much as you can on a scrap of MDF, then turps then hot water/soap, then get an aircompressor or leaf blower and blow it out to dry.
ie https://www.instagram.com/p/BIvvnFDAJYn/

[44Ronin]

Norton beartex white pads. No need for roller unless you are doing floors

[hurcorh]

What's the difference between the finish you want on a floor and the finish you want on a table? If you're wiping off the excess after the white pad you're removing more oil than if you roll on a thin coat.

[qwertyu]

Norton beartex white pads. No need for roller unless you are doing floors

is it faster or less wasteful? Do you reuse the pads?

[VikingCode]

For flat surfaces, the rollers are much quicker, much less labour intensive, and clean just fine. For detailed surfaces (edge profiles) or interior corners, etc, the non-woven pads or bristle brushes work great too. Rags are no good.
I do a lot of finishing before glue up, roller is king there.

PolyX and other hardwax oils are pretty self leveling, if you're getting any issues with surface finish off a roller, its likely either too much product is applied (apply more pressure) or the roller is crap (nap too long, or just poor quality) IMO.

[aarggh]

How does the Poly-X or Top Coat products stack up left in a sunny spot indoors? With Danish oil the UV tends to break it down over time, and the timber darkens quite dramatically, is it similar with Osmo?

Mind you, I'm not after a UV resistant finish as such, just wondered how it compared to Danish Oil.

cheers, Ian

[44Ronin]

What's the difference between the finish you want on a floor and the finish you want on a table? If you're wiping off the excess after the white pad you're removing more oil than if you roll on a thin coat.

The difference is, a roller is a large and unwieldly instrument, unsuitable for small pieces and quite frankly overkill.

You spread around a very small amount with the beartex pad, the heat generated also activates the finish. There's no excess to wipe off. The pads do no really absorb

[VikingCode]

How does the Poly-X or Top Coat products stack up left in a sunny spot indoors? With Danish oil the UV tends to break it down over time, and the timber darkens quite dramatically, is it similar with Osmo?
Mind you, I'm not after a UV resistant finish as such, just wondered how it compared to Danish Oil.
cheers, Ian

Compared to which danish oil? :D
The "typical" DIY danish oil (AKA "wiping oil varnish blend") is something like tung+poly+turps, and the recipes from Rustins Danish oil or Feast Watson Scandinavian oil aren't wildly different. Then you've got something like Organoil "Danish Oil" which if you read the ingredients is basically just tung oil.
I haven't noticed any UV effects/ambering effects of Organoils Danish Oil, but it provides considerably less protection.
"Wiping oil varnish blend", DIY or commercial, and oil based polyurethanes typically contain no UV inhibitors, so they'll get more amber over time.

At least in the short term, I've seen no such issue with PolyX and I'd hazard a guess at no such issue with any of the various hardwax oil brands. The couple (OSMO PolyX, Fiddes, Rubio Monocoat) I've looked into have pictures in their catalogues showing how they stay the same colour so you can patch it if any damage does occur, rather than having to strip the whole floor back.

The first project I did with PolyX sits in the sun all day long (north facing window), it is a redgum coffee table, and its still just as vibrant as day 1.
By comparison there is noticeable yellowing on a dining table I made for my mum (minwax oil based poly), about the same time period.

I don't think I've been woodworking long enough to see the finish on any interior projects completely get destroyed by UV.

[qwertyu]

Applied PolyX for the first time last couple of days. I think I might have put too much, I used the a roller.

Anyone here buff it? I know its not in the instructions but I saw a youtube video of a guy doing it with a white non-abrasive pad. He didnt say how long after applying should it be buffed though

What grit do you guys sand to? I've read shouldnt go more than 180 for osmo, but it feels rough (unless its just the dust that settled on it after I applied it - was super windy last night)

[homey]

Osmo does not like thick. It likes thin. Thick is likely to feel gluggy and rough. Apply thin. See my post #10 above. Finish is very smooth.

[FenceFurniture]

I apply a thinnish coat, wait 20 minutes (less if the weather is warm), wipe off before it becomes sticky. Leave overnight, repeat the next day.

Here’s a walnut box finished with PolyX.

431632Brian, the finish on the box looks very good (as does the box, btw :) - seems to have the chatoyance of a gloss finish with the "visibility" of a matt finish. I've been fooling around with some home made WOP lately which I am really liking - mainly because of the sensuous feel of the matt finish it is producing.


What grit do you guys sand to? I've read shouldn't go more than 180 for osmo, but it feels rough (unless its just the dust that settled on it after I applied it - was super windy last night)Mate, given half a chance I'll sand to 3000+ for things that are for myself - for other people that don't "get it" it'll be 500 top whack. Not necessarily because of the gloss it brings (although it does) but because of the insane grain character that comes out of the wood.

As I understand it (and I will stand well corrected by those who know better) they recommend 180-240grit limit so that the oil will penetrate the timber surface better.

I get that - timber needs nourishment (particularly the old fence palings that I often work with....). BUT....

....the finer you sand the better the character of the grain - absolutely no question, and I've proved it too many times to be wrong (don't mean to sound arrogant there). The grain starts to show slightly better at 320, then 500 is pretty nice, 800 is looking REALLY good, and by the time I get to 3000 or 4000 I have a bulge in my apron!

So...what if I can satisfy the timber's hunger and thirst for oil by doing a preliminary oiling at 180-240 (call it a flood coat if needed), let it dry for whatever the particular oil takes (noting that the timber has now been fed as deeply as possible at 180-240 grit). Then continue sanding up to whatever I like (500 or 600 for others, 3000 for me) and then do another oiling, or two as the case may be.

As far as I can make out the two arguments are now satisfied. The oil has been allowed to penetrate the timber at the lower grit (180-240) and the grain of the timber has been brought out by the finer sanding (or polishing, in fact). I have read many times that sanding to a fine grit such as 1500+ just burnishes and polishes the timber so that the oil can't penetrate properly.

I actually would dispute that because timber is a porous material, and if sanding alone could prevent moisture ingress then......., but surely the above method can satisfy both arguments?

Here is a piece of non-descript Eucalyptus that I sanded to 3000, and have not applied any finish whatsoever:

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=324203&d=1409738461


Note that I have deliberately focussed the camera on the reflections rather than the timber grain to show the gloss. The stripey reflection on the left is an extruded aluminium extension table for my jointer, and the black and lime green reflections in the middle and right are my mitre saw, and you can see the light bulb reflected in the middle.

That's the gloss level that can be achieved by anyone, without any finish so far - and that maximises the grain. What I want to feel after that is the sensuousness of an oil finish, which really means a satin to matt finish, so I wonder if I can have both.....


I aim to find out if I can.....

[qwertyu]

Any tips on how I can save it if I did put too much? Use 0000 steel wool to knock it back?

[FenceFurniture]

You may (or may not) have to wait a few days until it thoroughly dries. Doubtful you can hurt the finish if you intend to reapply.

[qwertyu]

I dont think I should reapply any more coats - Ive done 2 already and that is what the recommendation is

[homey]

FF,

”Brian, the finish on the box looks very good (as does the box, btw :) - seems to have the chatoyance of a gloss finish with the "visibility" of a matt finish. I've been fooling around with some home made WOP lately which I am really liking - mainly because of the sensuous feel of the matt finish it is producing.”

Thanks - the box is Osmo Polyx Satin. The finish has a good lustre without being glossy. Took me a while to get used to PolyX - I was putting it on too thickly which is a big mistake. I mainly put it on and wipe it off with a soft cloth, although Peter Parfitt (New Brit Workshop) has a couple of YouTube videos recommending usin white non-woven pads, e.g. Beartex.

i’m interested in your home made WOP - can you tell us more?

Qwertyu - if you’ve put the PolyX on too thick you could try these:

Use a card scraper VERY lightly to remove the excess, or,

Try a hair dryer to soften the wax so you can wipe off the excess, or

If all else fails, try Liberon wax and oil remover - just a little to remove the excess with a cloth.

I will try Livos Kunos soon as I hear good things about this too.

Cheers,

Brian

[FenceFurniture]

i’m interested in your home made WOP - can you tell us more?It was an idea I got from NCArcher, who pointed out that by mixing your own you are not restricted to the gloss levels on offer. My blend ended up being
30% Satin PolyU (oil based, Wattyl Estapol Interior)
20% Gloss PolyU
25% Pale BLO
25% Mineral Turps

In my son's Blackwood table (i.e. cabinet grade timber in very good condition) it yielded a satin finish. I used it the the same as WOP - clothed on and then a finish stroke after 5 mins or so. However, I've been using mainly on the fence paling projects of late, and because they are so damn thirsty I've taken to brushing on a flood coat and clothing off after about 15 mins (and there is usually very little to cloth off).

I've been leaving these at just one coat (mostly) because it results in a virtual matt finish even though they've been sanded to 500 or 800. The lustre is very pleasant indeed and feels great. The red timbers seem to be the thirstiest.

433747

433748

I made a new batch on Saturday which is
50% Satin PolyU (seems to be no point adding gloss)
25% BLO
25% Gum Turps (on the recommendation of a cabinet maker)

I haven't used that yet but I don't expect it to be much different. I actually wanted to use Tung oil instead of BLO for this batch, but when I got the tin home I couldn't get the lid off (or any others in the shop) so had to return it. It might be an altitude thing.

I made a couple of sleds for my table saw last week, and the BOWOP (Brush On Wipe OFF Poly) even makes MDF look and feel good!

[qwertyu]

I tried the steel wool and it helped, when i get more time I will do it some more.

I think it could also be saw dust on the surface of the table when I applied it floating to the top. What do you guys do between sanding and applying finish? (All I did was blow it down with compressed air)

[FenceFurniture]

I think it could also be saw dust on the surface of the table when I applied it floating to the top. What do you guys do between sanding and applying finish? (All I did was blow it down with compressed air)There's a problem right there! Dust particles can stay airborne for a long time before they settle - on the job. Better to vacuum the dust off (and hope that your vac doesn't chomp up the coarser particles into finer particles that get through the filter....).

Ultimately we would sand in a different room to the room that we apply the finish, and with all sorts of filtration and so on. But the reality is that we do it all in the same room.

[qwertyu]

Ah its something I will need to take more care of in the future. When making picture frames it was easy to step outside with one hand holding the frame and one hand holding the air hose to blow it out, with this table I just did it on the work bench. Learn from my mistakes I suppose. The steel wool is helping though, feels great now just a really slow process!