Bleeding and blistering of silky oak oil finish [Archive]

Dengue

24th October 2017, 08:13 AM

Hello, can anyone please suggest a way of applying an oil finish to Northern Silky Oak that does not end in bleeding and blistering of the finish?

The silky oak is an open pored timber, and after applying oil, there are hundreds of little glitter points when view at the correct angle to the light. In many cases these glitter points, or bleeds, become blisters that make the surface quite rough to the touch.

The recommended method is to vigorously wipe off these blisters every hour or so for the next 6 hours before they harden, which is quite tedious.

I am wondering if there is anything that can be done in the surface preparation to prevent this happening.

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Lyle

24th October 2017, 06:43 PM

You could try a clear shellac as a filler.
Or a couple of coats of sanding sealer.
Lyle

LGS

24th October 2017, 07:40 PM

Dengy,

What's the oil? I use HBO regularly on Silky Oak, with no problem.

Regards,

Rob

Dengue

24th October 2017, 09:22 PM

Hi Rob, It is Cabot's Danish Oil. I have the same problem with Livos Kunos #244

But you burnish your oils in, don't you?

Dengue

24th October 2017, 09:24 PM

Or a couple of coats of sanding sealer.

Thanks Lyle. what sort of sanding sealer would you use, and how does it stop the bleeding. Wouldn't it change the colour of the timber?

aldav

24th October 2017, 09:24 PM

I've never had this problem with Southern Silky, not sure if that makes a difference or not. As Lyle as indicated though I always use a coat of thinned shellac or Proofseal first.

Look after those hands Dengue or they could end up looking as old as mine! :C No, you wouldn't want to see them! :no:

Dengue

24th October 2017, 09:38 PM

Look after those hands Dengue or they could end up looking as old as mine! :C No, you wouldn't want to see them! :no:

How old are your hands, aldav? And what is the best way to look after mine?

Robson Valley

25th October 2017, 04:54 AM

Red oak (Quercus rubra) is used commonly for wood flooring in North America. It is open porous with the worst of them.
There is a paste "filler" that is smeared on. After drying, the entire floor is sanded back so that just the pores, the vessels, are plugged.
Next, apply any finish you like. Same product is used even on picture frames.
The sanding part is, of course, tedious but the flooring belt sanders make short work of it.

LGS

25th October 2017, 05:46 AM

Hi Dengy,

Yes I do. but HBO is primarily Tung Oil. Perhaps you could try that?

Regards,

Rob

ian

25th October 2017, 06:44 AM

Hi Dengy

I think the problem is related to Silky Oak's open pores. You could try a grain filler -- the only one I have used is made by Wattyl. It is tintable with spirit dyes.

others swear by Timbermate. It might be my technique, but I've never had much success with water based fillers. So my preference is for solvent / oil based ones.

ubeaut

25th October 2017, 10:06 AM

Dengy,

I use HBO

For those who don't know HBO is Hard Burnishing Oil made by Organoil.

Lyle

25th October 2017, 10:30 AM

I get my sanding sealer from Carbatec. It is clear like water.
Lyle.

Dengue

25th October 2017, 10:37 AM

Thanks for all the above comments, I really appreciate them. To get out of this current problem with six bleeding and blistered trays, I wet sanded them with 300G sandpaper and Danish Oil, in the hope that the slurry would fill the pores. I left them to dry overnight, ending up with a rough surface, almost bare timber, but no bleeding pores any more. Because the trays are so narrow ( 40mm wide), I sand by hand rather than by orbital sander, easier to keep control.

Today I lightly sanded them with 300G paper, and then 600G paper, then used that 600G paper to wet sand it again. Could not get a really uniform finish, it was streaky, so wet sanded again with 600G paper and then wiped it off with a very smooth cotton rag ( old Bond's undies) and it ended up with quite smooth uniform finish when viewed with the light at the correct test angle. Will post pics later when they are dry. I think I may have have gotten off lightly.

I think that LGS and AlexS are the only two who have really mastered finishing Northern Silky Oak, and they use different methods ( HBO and oil on shellac grain filler respectively). As I was reading in the Forum while researching this topic, woodworkers are divided into two classes, those who master HBO burnishing, and those who don't :)

I am currently considering other finishes for Silky Oak, other than oil. Not too keen on filling the pores with grain filler, the problem being matching the timber colour and not destroying the natural appearance of the timber.

Dengue

25th October 2017, 10:43 AM

I get my sanding sealer from Carbatec. It is clear like water.
Lyle.

thanks Lyle, how do you tint it to match the timber?

Lyle

25th October 2017, 12:54 PM

I don't tint it. It is a sanding sealer. I use it to make the grain stand up after sanding. Then sand again lightly with a higher grit.
If I really want to close the open pores in the wood I'll use a clear shellac, again from Carbatec. A couple of coats of the shellac over the sanding sealer hardly colours the wood. The shellac is a very pale brown/blonde colour.
I usually use WOP as my finish though, not oil.
Lyle.

double.d

25th October 2017, 03:25 PM

I use HBO and i use a few timbers other than Silky oak that will bleed the oil out. Sometimes i might give it a few wipes but i always wax a week after oiling so the problem disappears.

Dengue

26th October 2017, 08:19 AM

Here are the pics of the final result, done with wet wiping with 600G paper, and wiping off with smooth cotton cloth immediately after. The finish is not as bright or golden as when the first coat of oil was applied as was still very wet, that was spectacular. But there are no blisters or bleeding of the pores of the Northern Silky Oak any more.

Thanks everyone for all the advice and suggestions above, they really helped.

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Xanthorrhoeas

26th October 2017, 11:11 AM

Dengue, I've used a lot of Northern Silky Oak. I usually finish it with shellac, either my brown button shellac, or lately I've used UBeaut's Hard Shellac - see http://www.woodworkforums.com/f187/mid-century-modern-sideboard-build-215691 for what it looks like. The Hard shellac is tougher and less coloured than my normal - it takes about three weeks to cross-link. For utilitarian items I have used water-based polyurethanes with success. Some of them are crystal clear.

AngelaPetruzzi

25th November 2017, 12:39 PM

Sorry Denque that you are having some issues...but looks like you have it all sorted now. I know we have discussed this previously so I asked someone who uses the oils as well as many and various Aussie timber species. Below is his reply (had sent him the link to this thread). It may or may not help next time but did not want to ignore your issue. Also, he is happy to talk to you if you would like, just let me know.
I can’t make any comment on this on silky oak as I have had only 1 turning and I didn’t experience this problem. Silky oak being porous wood will require a number of coats and as you explained at ’s demo last year where you spoke about looking under a microscope at the surface of the sanded wood. There are high spots and low spots and the Livos will coat them both and leave then a feeling of roughness. The secret was to very lightly sand them with fine sand paper, 4*0 steel wool or even with a lint free rag before recoating. I have found on these types of porous woods you may have to do it 4- 6 times. Since yours demo at ’s, I find this works for me.

Dengue

25th November 2017, 06:29 PM

Thanks for taking the trouble to do this, Angela. It looks like I have to rub out the bleeding frequently immediately after the first coat, for the first 8 hours or so, And it the bleeding persists and I still have shiny spots, I found that the second coat wet sanding with 600grt paper forms a nice slurry that fills the pores. But I suspect that it takes away the natural look

Alkahestic

30th November 2017, 02:16 PM

You can use a very thin cut of white shellac to seal the surface. There are generally two types of sanding sealers, one is shellac based (or is just shellac) and the other type is wood pulp and solvent mix. With the wood pulp type sealer (Feast Watson being the one I've used), you apply a thin coat of sealer, let it dry, then sand it all off until what's left is just in the pores of the wood. Once you apply your finish, any sealer on the wood is basically rendered invisible, it will have negligible impact on the color of the wood. Using the wood pulp type filler can be a very quick way of filling rough grain timber like oaks. Shellac dries much faster and is much quicker to have prepped for a coat of finish.