Rose given methodone, not cough medicine [Archive]

Gingermick

23rd September 2005, 04:26 PM

How is the girl?
Didn't hear the story but know that people on that would not give it away at any cost; even when wasted they still know how much methadone they have if they are given takeaway doses. (It's their lifeblood, Unless she was using tranquilisers as well and if she was then she shouldn't have had a child in her care.)
It doesn't make sense. You may think these people have no idea but when it comes to their methadone, they are sharp.

I think something more sinister must have occured than a silly mistake.

silentC

23rd September 2005, 04:29 PM

She's dead. Mother and boyfriend have been arrested and charged with murder. Autopsy found enough methodone in her stomach to kill an adult. Mother claims the methodone was in a Dimetap bottle and given by mistake over a couple of days. Little girl said it tasted funny but took it anyway.

A son was also admitted to hospital - police alledge also with a methodone overdose.

Wongo

23rd September 2005, 04:29 PM

Another thing that drives me bananas every time is those single mums who have 6 kids with 6 different fathers. Where the hells my tax money gone? :mad:

Sorry where were we?

RufflyRustic

23rd September 2005, 04:36 PM

Sorry where were we?

Wondering what we could have done to help if we had been near... wondering if we would have had the guts to step in and do something even if we were near enough... wondering if publicising this will help other people not make the same mistake.....

RR :(
(very saddened by hearing this [edit] news report not what has been said by other members]

silentC

23rd September 2005, 04:43 PM

Apparently two of her older brothers were taken into foster care a year before she was born. She was the subject of two reports to DOCS. Slipped through the cracks.....

DanP

23rd September 2005, 05:18 PM

Why did she have methadone at home anyway. My understanding of the system is that they go to the chemist and get given ONE dose, which they take in front of the pharmacist. I was under the belief that you were NOT able to get take out. Also, why would you take it out of the brown bottle it comes in and put it into a Dimetap bottle. The story stinks if you ask me. :mad:

Dan

silentC

23rd September 2005, 05:20 PM

They had 2 litres of it stored up from prescriptions. Probably to sell. They were also charged with possession of a commercial quantity etc...

DanP

23rd September 2005, 05:22 PM

If the program hasn't changed and they did not get the 'done illegally, then the pharmacist has got something to answer for then.

DanP

23rd September 2005, 05:27 PM

Also, I don't think they'll win a murder trial. Manslaughter for sure but not murder. To prove murder you have to prove that they knew that what they did was going to kill the child and that they actually intended to kill the child.

Dan

silentC

23rd September 2005, 05:30 PM

Yes, manslaughter would make more sense.

According to the papers, the police had a listening device in there, so they must have been under surveilance already. They heard a comment related to the methadone in the cough medicine bottle.

All too late for Rose though. A tragedy....

Toggy

23rd September 2005, 05:35 PM

Have to agree with Zed. Off with them.

We can't bring the child back; but a good "hot shot" would fix the parents' problems.

I don't hate much in this world; but drugs & druggies are on the list.

(Now let the do-gooders bleat) We need a bit of contraversity again anyway. needs the practice.:D

Ken

Wood Borer

23rd September 2005, 06:41 PM

Druggies are a waste of space making others suffer due to their selfish self inflicted habit.

Robbing houses, rolling old people, killing their own kids, the only people they keep in business are the drug lords, law people and undertakers and even then they probably default on the payments.

It sounds hard to suggest that they should be exterminated but that's what happens to other noxious life forms.

I feel more for cane toads and patterson’s curse than I do for these type of people and I think cane toads and patterson’s curse (salvation jane) should be exterminated.

Gumby

23rd September 2005, 06:50 PM

What i would do to her isn't printable.

Unfortunately I console myself by thinking that Rose had no chance anyway. She may be better off where she is now, and that is very sad. Isn't it ironic how it's nearly always a defacto setup. Jadyn, Rose and countless others.

They all make me sick theses 'parents', if that's what you can call them. :mad:

Wood Butcher

23rd September 2005, 07:28 PM

I heard on the radio this afternoon that the girl had enough methadone in her body to kill an adult. For the sake of my membership and censorship i will not say any more excpet I hope the parents rot in hell.

ozwinner

23rd September 2005, 07:50 PM

I hope the parents rot in hell.

But they wont!!

Some bleeding heart will save them and release them back into society, sort of like a tag and release. :mad:

They may be coming to a street near you. :eek:

Al :(

DavidG

23rd September 2005, 08:33 PM

Isn't it amazing.
Given a tiny bit of information through the media, the number of people who advocate the usurping of our poor but only legal system and believe they are qualified to pass comment on others.

I only hope that you never end up on a jury.

What ever happened to that old idea that a person was
"innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt".

I will probably be flamed for this but lynch mobs always annoy me.

ozwinner

23rd September 2005, 08:37 PM

Isn't it amazing.
Given a tiny bit of information through the media, the number of people who advocate the usurping of our poor

But they are only poor because they use drugs.
They have the same go at life as you and me, yet because they CHOOSE to use drugs, they deserve special treatment?? :confused:

Come on!! :eek:

Al :(

Cagey

23rd September 2005, 08:59 PM

df gjlhdasf[ijawepk o3eqm.,w3rmmwfa
[pxc[0mlm
][_{soa]PWER;A LFIVJZXJ WAEJNQWEJKKL BASTARDS

doug the slug

23rd September 2005, 09:50 PM

seeing as how censorship is such a hot topic at the moment, i cant help but notice that DavidG's signature includes an image containing the word $H!T. nobody can get away with using the word in text yet it appears ok in an image????http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon6.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon11.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon11.gif

Zed

23rd September 2005, 09:57 PM

i was on a jury, I still say string the bastards up. frikken waste of good air. I'll also have you know I was fair upright and did not victimise or pre judge the accused - he deserved what he got - fair and square, no questions!

i

RETIRED

23rd September 2005, 10:09 PM

doug the slug

23rd September 2005, 10:12 PM

One of the owners products.

BLOODY DISCRIMINATION THATS WHAT IT IShttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif

savage

23rd September 2005, 10:27 PM

Apparently two of her older brothers were taken into foster care a year before she was born. She was the subject of two reports to DOCS. Slipped through the cracks.....

G'Day All,
I heard that there where 26 reports on the children in that family over the last couple of years, and now DOCS is under a possible inquiry. Maybe a case of "to little, to late" was my first thought, but if it saves just one child in the future it will be worth it. This is not the first time this has happened, last time it was a little boy under similar circumstances!...Rose should never have died, DOCS screwed up last time and said it would never happen again!....Should somebody be accountable with the parents?...:(

Sturdee

23rd September 2005, 11:45 PM

What ever happened to that old idea that a person was
"innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt".

The quote actually is " PRESUMED innocent until proven guilty".

Most of the time they are guilty but there is insufficient evidence to prove their guilt. Hence in these kind of cases I would prefer that we have the Napoleonic code of law, like most countries, where the accused should be required to prove their innocence.

BTW earlier this year I was on a jury in a culpable driving charge, after listening to all the evidence we convicted the accused. We were fair but he was guilty. My only regret was that IMO the sentence wasn't adequate.

Peter.

E. maculata

24th September 2005, 12:15 AM

My little Blokes' (4&1/2 yr old) best mate is one of the lucky ones(?)DOCS have him in foster care after his "Mum" deliberately placed him in a tub of boiling water, the neighbours heard his screams and rescued him :) . My wife would, I believe kill this poor excuse of a person with her bare hands if she ever saw her, such is the depth of her feelings on the subject.
There are plenty of people out there that if allowed by the authorities would open their hearts to any of these kiddies and give them the love and security they deserve.

The english vocabulary does not contain strong enough terms to adequately describe these reptiles.

DavidG

24th September 2005, 09:38 AM

I still say we should not be talking about stringing some one up until after the trial.
We do NOT know all the details so we are prejudging.

When the people and press get behind something like this it can end up with a lynching.

Let the courts decide and then we can discuss it.

zathras

24th September 2005, 09:46 AM

Iain

24th September 2005, 09:59 AM

Having spent several years in gaol ( :rolleyes: ) it is innevitable that when one of these 'people' arrive the criminals own code of conduct emerges, call it honour amongst thieves if you will.
Protective custody is applied for a time but they are extremely patient.

Ivan in Oz

24th September 2005, 11:49 AM

Wondering what we could have done to help if we had been near... wondering if we would have had the guts to step in and do something even if we were near enough... wondering if publicising this will help other people not make the same mistake.....

RR :(
(very saddened by hearing this [edit] news report not what has been said by other members]

RR,
Saw this.
Unfortunately SO many People do not have the Ba...??? Guts [ Sorry Intestinal Fortitude] to speak up, let along do anything. :rolleyes:
I'm on 'NOTICE' [Read ..... in trouble] at work because of a Hygiene "issue" I spoke up about.
The way different Cultures use 'our' toilet seats...............and what is left for others to clean up :mad: :mad:
What is Management going to do?
A Cultural Induction on Australian ways of life. Huh! :eek: :eek: :rolleyes:

I've done a Suicide Prevention Course and used it, Quite Gut wrenching.
Off topic, any good 'Woodworking' groups in the Toowoomba area?
I'm a bit West of there
and a bit lost with some timberwork...... :rolleyes:
Have a look at my Signature, that's where I work,....I mean where I am Employed.

Gingermick

25th September 2005, 09:07 AM

Yes, manslaughter would make more sense..

Diamatapp is red I think and methadone looks like congealed urine. It also smells funny. I dont think someone could be that stupid. Cough medicine bottle on a fridge full of methadone could only be mistaken for cough medicine by kids or maybe people who had no idea that it was in the house.
The more I think about it the more I want to string them up.
And I'm a bleedin heart generally.

making others suffer due to their selfish self inflicted habit..

How are all the people who gave up the cancer sticks going anyhow.:D :p

But they are only poor because they use drugs.
They have the same go at life as you and me..

That's a pretty rank generalisation.

Caliban

25th September 2005, 09:31 AM

That's a pretty rank generalisation.

there you go again Al, pulling rank, this time as a general no less!
Or should that be rank pulling.
You've always been rank.
(The puns in that (quoted) insult were so delicious I couldn't help myself. ;) )
All my puns were intentional.

silentC

26th September 2005, 10:04 AM

I still say we should not be talking about stringing some one up until after the trial.
It's not a question of whether they are guilty of murder or manslaughter or jay-walking. They had a 6 year old girl in their care and she died after consuming methadone. Intentional or not, it is their fault, they were responsible, they owed her a duty of care. If it was intentional, hanging would be too good for them. If it was an accident, they should never be allowed to be responsible for children again. Whatever happens, she (the mother) will have to live with it now.

silentC

26th September 2005, 10:08 AM

Diamatapp is red I think
You can get Dimetap Clear, which is a straw colour I think.

Ashore

27th September 2005, 07:23 PM

I still say we should not be talking about stringing some one up until after the trial.

Got to agree 100% with you on this one, have the trial then string them up

The trouble with life is there's no background music.

Russell

silentC

28th September 2005, 05:16 PM

Update: magistrate in bail hearing says case for murder charge is 'thin'. Would probably be downgraded to manslaughter if it goes to trial. At least they have that option.

Character witnesses say she was a 'loving' mother. Apparently it was the step father who put the methadone in the cough medicine bottle - he admitted this to two of her teachers when they came to the house to offer condolences. School friends made a memorial garden for her.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/rose-murder-case-very-thin-says-magistrate/2005/09/28/1127804518894.html

LineLefty

30th September 2005, 05:08 PM

SilentC, you'll be interested to read this:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,16767660-421,00.html

E. maculata

30th September 2005, 10:33 PM

Ok mild change of tack here,
imagine you've just lost your 6 year old child to a horrible horrible mistake, and you're beside yourself with guilt, absolutely numbed with grief, and then because it was methadone, the media awakens to attention, you get locked up, vilified and spat on, then physically assaulted. All the while you've trying to grieve for a lost child.

Ashore

1st October 2005, 12:59 AM

E. maculata
Wouldn't have had methadone in the house, let alone in a medicine bottle in the fridge , would you http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon5.gif I dont think so
Guilt they deserve , sympathy lies between $hit and Syphilis in the dictonary
These people had methdaone in the house with children and they want sympathy, well not from me.
I do grieve for the innocent lost through no fault of her own , but not for those whos excesses and own desires led to this horrific thing, I have no sympathy.
Weather it was an accident or not , they should not have had methadone in a medicine bottle in the fridge .

Ashore

E. maculata

1st October 2005, 01:35 AM

Probably you or I wouldn't, but I do know that "there but the grace go I" and also once some of the gutter sniping trash for cash commercial muckrakers (I could go on but...) media get hold of it, you & I wouldn't know Martha from Arthur in drag.
What I'm saying is now I'll sit this one out on the fence.

P.S. when my wife was 4 she drank commercial hardener from a glass bottle, almost died, these days we'd probably bray & holler for a custodial sentence for her Dad especially after the local rag & maybe a few shock jocks jazzed it up, trying to up the ratings.

Ashore

1st October 2005, 02:00 AM

Not having a shot at you Bruce
Agree completely about the media ( have had my fights with them )
As for "there but for the grace of god" , I disagree as that coveres too many sins and loosers.
Not every one from the same socio-economic background end up the same
Some people with every opertunity go bad while their siblings can be some of the best and likewise for those who start out with nothing.
You are what you have the desire and strength of will to become.

As for sitting on the fence, until all the evidence is heard you are proberly right
Its just that this kind of thing brings out such strong emotions, perhaps we should all sit on the fence espically considering we are getting our information from the media

Russell

womble

1st October 2005, 08:26 AM

Gingermick

1st October 2005, 08:40 AM

I hope they look at just how there was that amount of methodone in a private home anyway.

The bloke was getting it from a illegal supplier rather than a program. And when takeaway doses are given they fill the bottles up with orange juice to deter ingestion in other ways, hence they are diluted and a couple of teaspoons / medicine cups wouldn't be enough to do what it did IMHO

biotechy2k

1st October 2005, 08:45 AM

The only time single doses are handed out to take home is in the event of a cyclone coming or public holidays.

yep and not only that the take away's were mixed with orange juice to stop them hitting up (bit nasty to shoot up with OJ) and that was to also help break the cycle of needle use,

but I think the system had fallen down somewhat these days there is not mentor or support network like their used to be for the addicts and
Your right 2L that's a huge amount of methadone.

well this is a sad thread I think I'll go and light a candle for little Rose and hug my kids
take care guys
as angry as this waste of life makes us
take a deep breath and know that we who feel the loss of little roses' life
are keeping her spirit alive
Cheers Bio

dazzler

1st October 2005, 10:11 AM

Hi All,

This was a very evil story and it will be interesting to see how it turns out. The Listening Device stuff will probably have them sunk.

What is interesting is the attitude that people have to druggies. I am no bleeding heart, have worked in the drug squad squad and on the streets.

I have pity for them. Lots say they take it by choice so #$@% em.

But heres the thing. Think of the thing that you would like most but cant afford. For me it would be a new BMW M series or a shed full of new tools:) .

Now pick yours and to get it all you need to do is go down to a street corner and let a complete stranger abuse you. (I will leave this to your imagination, and pretty woman the movie is not an accurrate precis of prostitution).

Would i do it to get my M series. Not on your life:mad: . Would you do it to get your desire :confused: . Probably not.

But these people do it day in day out. Or rob, steal and sometimes kill.

Many have ended up as users after being abused by family and friends at a young age. Not all but a lot have serious mental issues and have ended up falling into the lifestyle, not by choice.

Others have chosen the lifestyle, gotten hooked and are now stuck.

Legalising illicit drugs in my opinion is the only way to address the issue. It protects us from them because they dont need to steal our stuff to buy it, helps them because they get the right dose, are registered and so can be tracked and given medical and mental assistance.

The cost savings, even after paying for thier drugs, would be huge. Take just the LD in that druggies house. The cost is huge, the instal and monitoring around the clock are huge.

The usual arguements come up;

1. No one makes them take drugs, but I suppose no one makes fat people eat too much and need heart surgery, dont suppose anyone makes people smoke so they need hospitalsation later in lifeetc

2. I shouldnt have to pay for thier drugs. Well we already do, we pay for the courts, higher insurance costs, the courts and personal loss. The cost is not huge. Drugs are expensive cause their illegal.

Having worked the streets the system aint working and never will while ever the stuff is illegal.. There are heaps of things the cops can be doing than worrying about druggies and associated crime.

cheers

dazzler
(ducks for cover)

Gingermick

1st October 2005, 10:25 AM

People will always use drugs.
Did you see the latest stupidity in QLD? Sniffer dogs at clubs to find people with ecstacy or speed. What a farken huge waste of resources.

dazzler

1st October 2005, 10:44 AM

People will always use drugs.
Did you see the latest stupidity in QLD? Sniffer dogs at clubs to find people with ecstacy or speed. What a farken huge waste of resources.

Spot on GingerMcik

Those eccie users cause sooooooo much trouble:rolleyes: . All they want is to give you a cuddle.

cheers

dazzler

Wassy

1st October 2005, 11:13 AM

I had the unfortunate experience of being stuck next to a methadone addict on the train in Sydney 11 years ago. After offering me some at 8:00 am he told me the chemists issue single doses and watch the recipient drink it, in theory. He said most where too busy and left the recipient to do what they liked, he had a small bottle he would poor it into for last use.

DanP

1st October 2005, 12:04 PM

Sniffer dogs at clubs to find people with ecstacy or speed. What a farken huge waste of resources.

Fancy that... Police drug dogs looking for drugs. Can't see how that one got allowed.

Dan

BTW Ecstacy and speed are illegal you know. Plenty of people die taking party drugs.

Gingermick

1st October 2005, 12:19 PM

And a hundred times more die from alcohol related incidents :) . Dogs as your aware, require handlers. Thats a wasted resource.

DanP

1st October 2005, 12:31 PM

I hope they look at just how there was that amount of methodone in a private home anyway. I used to work for people who ran a methodone clinic and there are very strict rules about giving it out in QLD ie: they had to take it there and then in front of the chemist when they were given their dose. This was to ensure that they received their proper dose, and couldn't walk out the door and stockpile/sell it later on. The only time single doses are handed out to take home is in the event of a cyclone coming or public holidays.

That's what I said in post #9.

I've been thinking about this a bit. Dangerous I know, but anyway, here tis.

1. The normal starting dose of 'done is 100ml for your typical average to heavy drug user. Pretty much every one starts on 100ml.
2. A dimetap bottle would be no bigger than 100ml.
3. The child is reported to have enough 'done in her "to kill an adult" (how the media would know that is beyond me)
4. You would have to assume that the dosage to kill an adult would be, conservatively, 150 - 200 ml.
5. The ADULT dose of most cough medicines is 12ml.
6. To suggest that you've given a child two bottles of dimetap in a few days and not know that you're in fact giving them methadone is highly improbable. What happened when the bottle ran out the first time?...Topped it up with more then forgot again????

Dan

Disclaimer: The above is based on the accuracy (?) of media reporting and general supposition and does not reflect the true version of events in any way. (got you thinking but)

DanP

1st October 2005, 12:34 PM

The drug dogs and handlers are all ready there waiting for a raid or similar to do. So its a case of using a resource that would be sitting around otherwise.

Alcohol is legal...drugs aren't.

Gingermick

1st October 2005, 01:43 PM

FYI and DAMHIK Methadone liquid comes with a concentration of 5mg/ml. The dispensary adds orange juice or water and bulks takeaways out to fill the bottle. Now 100mg of methadone is an awful lot. It would make casual users OD. A teaspoon of the undiluted stuff would contain 25mg which would make a child very, very sick, most program starters are put on 20mg (4ml) to start, then go back to doctor after first dose and go up or stay put. This is always diluted before being given to client.
This bloke had the undiluted stuff you would have to assume.
And DanP, if the laws are there to protect us from ourselves, then surely smoking cigarettes would be illegal.
And they can all be re-tasked.

DanP

1st October 2005, 02:28 PM

And they can all be re-tasked.

So you would just have a free for all?

Why don't we just make all drugs legal and then we can all step over the near comatose druggies like they do in Springvale or Cabramatta. Or, we can have all the violence related crime that comes with heavy speed use. Or, the masses of suicides that come with eccy users when they come down hard.

That would be an interesting society to live in...

Gingermick

1st October 2005, 03:00 PM

I dont think that the legal status of drugs has impacted on their use and abuse. Just created a black market.
And I can't answer for you, but if smack was available at my local shop I wouldn't go anywhere near it as I don't want to be controlled by a substance.
If people are educated properly about drugs they can make sensible decisions. As long as they are taboo they will be attractive. And people are always going to use drugs.
It is a tough one but I can see that the staus-quo isn't working. Perhaps if possession wasn't a summary offence; you just get a ticket like speeding (velocity of car).
And we could spend the money saved on educating our kids. My kids will be well educated and hence will be able to say no and give a sensible reason. (Or I'll yell at them for a month)

Gumby

1st October 2005, 03:16 PM

Having worked the streets the system aint working and never will while ever the stuff is illegal.. There are heaps of things the cops can be doing than worrying about druggies and associated crime.

Good points Dazzler. Remember what happened in the US when they banned alcohol, organised crime flourished. Same thing with drugs.

dazzler

1st October 2005, 03:43 PM

Good points Dazzler. Remember what happened in the US when they banned alcohol, organised crime flourished. Same thing with drugs.

Thanks Gumby,

i always have a chuckle when I hear the PM and Police Commissioners talk about our "war on drugs", though I suppose the ridiculous "war on terror" has taken the limelight a bit, we havent even picked a fight with the drug importers yet. A few years ago there was a bust of 850k (or 580???) of cocaine. The price spiked for a day in Sydney and then settled back to normal.

Plus the added problem of drug related corruption and its a real mess.

One of the interesting thing of working the streets is to watch a drug user slowly decay. About seven years ago I came across a 15yo female shoplifter who was a lovely girl, troubled but nice. Over the next few years her drug use took control and there is a pictorial history on her arrest screens and it is just like she is slowly rotting away. Very sad.

Now back to the shed.....putting the handles on my new bench and its finished.:)

cheers

dazzler