Gyprocking new addition

[Paul B]

Hi all,

We've just had a new room added to the house, we'd decided that the only way we could afford it without a loan was to get it done to lock-up-stage and then finish off the rest myself. I've had a bit of experience (was carpenters labourer many moons ago) and these days I'm building acoustic guitars as a hobby - so I know my way 'round a toolbox.

My plan was to hire one of these gyprock lifts (see pic) and do the gyprocking myself, seems pretty straight forward, I did the bathroom in vilaboard a year or two ago and it turned out great.

Now my wife has the outlaws in her ear telling her it's a real hard job, and we should hire a professional (for some stupid amount of $$$) or it will look like crap. She's half convinced they're right.

Is there any sensible reason I shouldn't do the job myself? I can't see that it could be all that difficult if you have half a clue.

Thanks

http://rermag.com/images/archive/202RER1938.jpg

[duckman]

Meet your wife halfway. Hang it yourself and then get a plasterer in to stop off and cornice.

Ask around and you might find a retired plasterer looking for a bit extra to supplement his pension and would take the job on provided the plaster has already been hung. :cool:

[Fugly]

Fixing the Gyprock is this easy part, finishing the plaster is the part I’d be worried about, what are you like on the metal float? Is timber cladding the ceiling an option?

[Andrew in Tas]

How quickly do you want the job done? If you are under pressure to get the job done quickly or dont feel comfortable stopping up yourself then I'd do what duckman suggested, fix the sheets yourself and get a plasterer in to finish off.

If you have a bit of time up your sleeve and you have a few clues, I can't see why you shouldn't do it all yourself. Get a hold of the installation reference manual produced by Boral. From memory they are on the website. They give a lot more detail than the handyman booklets CSR produce. They give details of the various products and their uses, installation instructions, including the numbers of screws/nails needed for fixing sheets with fasteners only or fasteners and adhesive. Also cover things like back blocking etc etc. Very good manuals.

There is no reason why you cant get a finish as good or better than a plasterer. Time is money and they do a good job VERY quickly. If you have time up your sleeve you can get a very good result, i.e. an extra top coat feathered out a bit further.

It might be worth fixing the sheets and then get a quote from a plasterer to stop up and fit the cornice. If you have to buy materials and tools etc it may end up a better proposition to get someone else to do it.
Good luck

[Barry_White]

That's the problem with outlaws they are dream stealers and always put you down. Like Arnie says don't be a girlie man stand up to them and prove them wrong. I say go for it.

[Paul B]

Thanks guys,

I don't have a problem with applying jointing compound, I've already got the tools from when I did the bathroom, it took a while then to develope a technique, but once I worked it out it was pretty easy to get nice joins and corners - though not as fast as a pro.

The main thing I was worried about was being able to lift 3.6m sheets over my head and have them lie flat once they were installed - the outlaws thought they'd "be all wavy" and they've done it once themselves. But if the frame work is flat and the panels are hard up against the wood, how could they be? I'm obviously not going to put screws in the ends and work towards the middle, which is what I suspect they did.

Andrew, thanks for the heads up on the Boral info, I was actually downloading the CSR docs when I read your post.

[gsouth]

I used to be one of the "pay someone to do it for you type" - spent too much time listening to the "it's way too hard" people...

The guy across the road did his bathroom reno - hired one of these for the ceiling - took him much longer as he got the plastering right, and working out how to do the cornice -- must say the results were of profesional quality - even higher.

He then did his entire garage ceiling - results again were above a professional finish (didn't cut corners)...

Only advice I can give after observing him on these 2 jobs - take your time. Read up about how to do it - in the end you will save $ but burn time.

[duckman]

Thanks guys,
The main thing I was worried about was being able to lift 3.6m sheets over my head and have them lie flat once they were installed - the outlaws thought they'd "be all wavy" and they've done it once themselves. But if the frame work is flat and the panels are hard up against the wood, how could they be? I'm obviously not going to put screws in the ends and work towards the middle, which is what I suspect they did.


3.6M aren't very long. 6.0M sheets can be successfully lifted with a sheet lifter, in fact plasterers typically only use a sheet lifter for the longer sheets because the sheet lifter is slower but you're not trying to earn a living from it and it sounds like you'll be working by yourself so you don't have a choice about using a sheet lifter. :D

As far as the sheets finishing up 'wavy' on you in-laws ceiling, the sheet lifter wasn't the cause of that problem. Either the ceiling joists or battens weren't 'flat' to start with or they simply had no idea about what they were doing and weren't very observant while they were working.

Go for it. :cool: :cool:

[Dan_574]

I say go for it, if you can finish yourself then thats the hard part done. Use the sheet lifter and your home and hosed. Me and my old man used the sheet lifter and like was said earlier we had 6m sheets on it, 3.6m will be a breeze.

[elphingirl]

We had a whole new house professionally done except the bathroom walls (which weren't ready at the same time). When we got a quote for the bathroom they quoted $1750 - even though they plasterers were still onsite. We thought - bugger that, we'll do it ourselves.

You'll be able to do it, but you might make more dust than a professeional. I think the suggestions about getting them to joint and sand are a good idea. It's horrible stuff.

Cheers, Justine

[aspectdisplays]

Don't hire the lifter for 3.6m sheets. get a mate to help you, use stud adhesive and the money you save you can hire a sanding machine with dust extractor. Becasue the worst part is sanding the ceiling by hand apart from the effort it's the dust that get's all over you.

[John99]

First thing dont give a second thought to what the outlaws say. Just do it !

I learnt from experience, I had no idea just a few tips from these forums and with the help of the misses and kids we put up 4.8m sheets with the help of only a couple stays I made up out some timber they looked like a T they were made about 50mm shorter then the height of the ceiling with me on the ladder lifting one end up lifting and proping the sheet up with the stays I then used screws to fix the sheets up with the adhesive.

Did find out when I was filling the joins in the sheets it was easy to get a better finish doing it of a night using a couple of spot lights seemed to be able to get the joins better and had very little sanding to do on the ceiling.

Make sure the battens or ceiling joists that the gyprock is to be fixed to are fairly even may be 10mm max out over your 3.6m ceiling just put some extra noggins / spacers in to level out any that are out abit.
Maybe using a lifter may of been easier but I was looking to save some $$$.

So Good Luck !

Finished product below

[kiwigeo]

Paul,

In laws sound like they need a bit of exercise...get them to help you put the Gibrock up......it should keep them quiet for a bit.

As for doing the finishing work.......Id get someone in to do it. I watched the guy doing my new garage and workshop and I must say I couldnt have done as good a job myself.

Cheers Martin

[John99]

Did also have a thread about ceilings at the following link



http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=15986

[johnc]

I'd get a couple of mates around same as most of the earlier suggestions, but if you go down the lift path they really are dead easy and slow and steady does it. Ditto for do your homework before you start it really is a case of ensuring battens etc are true before the plaster is fixed. There is nothing to add to the posts other than if you do stuff it up it will give the in-laws endless satisfaction so no matter what the outcome someone will be happy.

JohnC

[Harry72]

And to get them battons etc true before the gyp... use a string line to show up any out of shape wood.

[wombat47]

We've replaced two ceilings, one of which was sloped, and the lifter is really the only way to go.

I can testify to the amount of sanding that is involved when doing the joins yourself. And I suspect that the DIY tools that are available are not a patch on what the professionals use.

By the time we got to the second ceiling, we decided to use a retired plasterer (recomended by someone) to do the joins. He did the job in one go - one coat and sanded the same day. The result was really pretty poor. So back to DIY to re-finish it.

The next time, I'll opt for a working plasterer who is willing to come and go as necessary to do a decent job.

I'll also mention that plaster dust and domestic vacuum cleaners are not very good friends.

[Dan_574]

When I did my house last year I got a bloke whose only job is sanding. He uses a giraffe sander and charges by the sq/m, he was worth every cent. Look around you may have someone near you who does the same.

[Andrew in Tas]

Yes, good point Wombat. Over the years I've destroyed a couple of vacuum cleaners. The filters/bags on the normal domestic vacuums wont stop the fine plaster dust. If you have a flash expensive vacuum I'd invest in a cheap second hand one for the job.

[Hector_L]

Here's my two cents worth...

Disclaimer: I'm no professional, just a keen learn as I go, DIY person...

I've just recently Gybrock my place... first timer... and it wasn't that hard. I hired the lifter from Bunnings @ $35 a day for one day and we finished the roof in two bedrooms, living area and a small hall way in about 6 hours and that included battening two roofs. The sheets were 3.6m long by 13m, 13m sheets are heavy so two people is a must to lift the sheet on to the machine, use stud glue and screws (my place has hardwood and in a few places we had to pre drill a hole so as to screw the gybrock) The walls in these rooms took another day and a half...<O:p</O:p

Regarding plastering, the key thing I found is THIN... do not try to cover the screws and joints with one application... Use basecoat first to cover the tape and joints and a very light sand (if any) and put the next coat, at for the last coats put TopCoat, this is basically the stuff you will be sanding and if it's being put properly there will be minimal sanding. I know it's easy to say than to actually do the work, but if I did it anyone can, take your time and do what I did, start where it won't be so noticeable first to practice, you'll get better as you go on.... and remember, the key is THIN coats..<O:p</O:p


Enjoy...<O:p</O:p

[HavinaGo]

Started to write yesterday and work got in the way ... This reinforces some of what has been said:

The Boral references are great.
Look for the Plasterboard Installation Manual

http://www.boral.com.au/brochures/orders/default.asp?site=&company=Plasterboard&AUD=&nodes=IC:Plasterboard&toggleItem=brochures&menuitem=plasterboard&category=2&c_name=Technical%20Manuals&scr=1

Having done a couple of areas and helped a friend do the ceilings of his place:

Prepare, prepare and prepare ... Get the studs true .. pack or plane so the wall and ceiling will be flat. plan joins in sheets so they line up with noggins or are back blocked. follow the rules on corners (ie cut out of one sheet, don't be tempted to fill in with little bits) ... did I say prepare.

If you use big sheets, have at least 3 people around.

Use the lift for the ceiling, not really needed for walls. People have said the lift is slower but for ceilings I can't see how anyone would prefer to hang around holding the sheet while it is screwed up. ... The T's sound a great idea.

The other tip I was given is don't put too much plaster on when stopping up ... ie use less than you think. Don't expect to fully cover the screw and tape first time .. just get alayer over it all. It is easier to add a little than to sand off a lot.

It is doable and the outcome will be nice as you care.

Now the downside: It used to be (80's, South Aus) possible to pay plasterers and come out of the job economically in front because of the price of materials .. ie the plasterer got a trade price, the home builder got charged full wack. This may not be true now, but I'd probably do the sums just to be sure. Then again doing it youself is worth a lot.

[Bodgy]

Hector's spot on. I've done my own gyprock many times, it's not so hard. Never used a lifter, just a couple of mates, a slab of beer and a few brooms. Right about the vaccum cleaner too, use one with the throw away bags.

Final suggestion, which I always practice when starting a new and unfamiliar task - go to the Library. There are plenty of DIY books covering Gyprocking et al. This simple preparation has worked for me for everything from Welding to Snowboarding.

[Dan_574]

Hector - "The sheets were 3.6m long by 13m, 13m sheets are heavy" I bet and they would flex a bit.

my god thats a big room and you got one sheet to fit it, thats amazing. he he he he

[DavidC]

I say go for it !!!
I did my whole house myself , Gutted and re-Gyprocked. Definately use the Gyprock lifter if you have a few sheets to do. I had my wife help me lift the bedroom ones in place and ended up snapping one sheet in half. When i used the lifter it was quicker more accurate and easier on the back. If you line it up correctly take your time you can clamp it and squash the adhesive and screw up without any trouble. I also use furring channel for most of my ceiling to get it perfectly level. Because the hardwood joists had warped and sagged over the years. Goto CSR and get some furring channel they work out how much you need based on square area. You can put it up yourself with a spirit level and srew gun. If your ceiling joists are level then your ahead.
Use a product called Supa Ceil CSR its lighter and reenforced with fibre mesh in core. I used screws rather than nails and paper rather than fibre tape.

Some tips for doing the stopping up with plaster
Avoid butt joins completely, recessed.
I used all CSR products - Base coat 100 and second coat then Boral topcoat for a smooth finnish.
I applied just enough basecoat to cover the tape and another trick is keep moving dont let plaster dryout when smoothing. I found a water bottle squirting the paper when applied works well if you find its drying out. The smoother you can get each coat the better the fnnish. Dont put on too much plaster on. Let first coat dry and plaster not protruding the recess. Secoat I apply with 3" taping knife moving in one direction so that recess is level to gyprock surface and feather edges using trowel . You can also try wetting edges with pait brush and then feather with taping blade or trowel.

once the second coat of basecoat is dry sand and make sure its feathered and no bumps then I apply topcoat or Final coat with a Paint roller. I thin the mixture with water just enough so that it doesn't fall off roller then apply literally to the whole seam .
Then keep moving and feather edges with 6" blade or trowel and then a final pass with the trowel in the centre.

don't put too much final coat on its only a smoothing coat and you should find that the sanding is next to nothing if feathered correctly.
Sand with 100 grit paper on a sanding pole with 150 watt light at least shinning across seam.
Sand imperfections and feathering edges , dont sand too much off edged other wise you will have to redo topping. Because you wil see imperfections through paintwork.
you can buy a dustless sand head that goes on you vacuum
Dust off and paint with good sealer. For more info email me on [email protected]
My job came up perfect and no imperfections I did my cornice.

[gpkennedy]

Those sheet lifters are great. You do need help getting the sheet onto the lifter, but it can be done solo at a pinch. One clue is to get the sheets delivered so thay they face the correct way whan you stack them against a wall and are off the floor. The correct way is to have the down side facing away from the wall. In this way you can use the sheet lifter to pick up the sheets with little manual labour.

A screw gun using those strips of screws are worth hiring, it can be difficult to successfully hammer into the ceiling.

I'd get a plasterer to do the finishing if you could afford it.

[leeton]

Paul,

In laws sound like they need a bit of exercise...get them to help you put the Gibrock up......it should keep them quiet for a bit.


Best advice I can give you...DON"T get the outlaws to help...you won't feel confident with them there...and they will end up trying to tell you how to do it,
If you end up getting an expert in...just tell em you did it all...stick it up em. :D

[Harry72]

Get good at the plastering and you wont need to sand much or at all... SWMBO's father(ol'time plasterer of 50yrs... gyp is for cheats he says)can finish good enough not to use any sanding at all, he just is amazing to watch with a metal trowl then feathers off with a wet paint brush. The finish looks flatter than I can do using the sanding process(and Im pretty good at doing bog work on cars!)

[wombat47]

DavidC, thanks for the tips, especially the advice re using a paint roller. I have found the feathering bit very fiddly.

And so timely. I am in the process of patching after having removed picture rails from a plaster wall (c.1920's style fitted at door height in a late Victorian house with 11ft ceilings = not a good look) so am very appreciative of your advice.