The Perils of Shipping

[Bushmiller]

Some of you would be aware that I maintain a shipping facility at Hawthorne, California in America. It allows me to collect a number of purchases there over a period of three months and then ship all at one go. There are some strange restrictions at times. Of course you cannot ship weapons, explosives, chemicals etc.. Some liquids are forbidden as are more than a couple of Li-Ion batteries at a time, but one of the strange prohibited products with one carrier, the cheapest of course, is timber.

Now this is one where I come hugely unstuck on as probably three quarters of my purchases are hand saws of some description. With the timber handles of most self-respecting saws, it normally means using a more expensive carrier. Consequently I divide up the purchases and try to have a shipment that comprises purchases without any timber component. Just before the weekend I consolidated a number of purchases that were mainly metallic, some paper such as catalogues, some saw files, a few miscellaneous items and four handsaws. However the handsaws had either plastic or metal handles (Some Disston D-95s and a Docking saw.)

Prior to this there had been some problems during consolidation when I realised they had made the package larger than necessary and also missed one package. It turned out that they had temporarily lost it, but all was resolved when it was found and the parcel was reduced in size.

I selected the preferred carrier which is primarily Australia Post, After some inquiries I found out a while back that Australia Post has no restriction on timber products. However, the carrier used in conjunction with Aussie Post stateside apparently does not carry timber.

I then received a notification that the shipment was cancelled because it contained timber. I was away from home and without thinking selected the next carrier which was US$78 dearer. When I got home I woke up with a start this morning and thought, "@#*! :(( " I had deliberately chosen no timber products. I got on to the company and asked them to cancel the shipment explaining the problem and pointing out that the saws did not have timber handles. Then I contacted them through their Live Chat facility and again explained the issue.

They checked and I waited and they finally supplied me with this picture.

417038

There it is. A file handle made in timber. Immediately I realised what had happened. There is an Ebay seller from whom I have bought files and saws in the past. Most times he throws in a small gift. A "freebee" if you like. This along with the files he had thrown in a timber handle.

If I had known I would have placed it in another shipment later on or I could have asked for it to be discarded.

It has turned out to be a a $78 file handle :- . That's US dollars.

Regards
Paul

[Simplicity]

Paul
Um that's going to be one expensive file.
That really is dumb luck.
Cheers Matt

[ian]

bummer

[doug3030]

And that's what you get for being such a good customer, Paul. :rolleyes:

I'm sure it was done with the best intentions and he still has a warm fuzzy feeling from his generosity. :2tsup:

[FenceFurniture]

Yeah, this is a pain in the butt, and you have my sympathy Paul. What is an even bigger pain though is that firstly, Fedex have acquired TNT, and secondly with new importation rules here, they are refusing to allow consolidated packages to be shipped by Fedex.

I think that now means that if you want to bring in a package from multiple suppliers, and they contain timber - you're out of luck.

Maybe DHL will still allow consolidated packages with timber? Hell expensive though.

[Bushmiller]

Doug

It is indeed ironic. He is a very ethical seller, although I expect the verbosity in his listings irritate the proverbial out of some people.

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

Brett

DHL take timber, but as you say expensive. probably half as much again or more compared to TNT Express when that was available.

Regards
Paul

[woodPixel]

ComGateway do consolidation and have no problems with timber. I've used them often for veneers.

A new service I've just used is ShopAndShip, which is cheap beyond belief. They don't do consolidation, "yet". They also have no problem with timber.

Its a bummer when OS deliveries go heywire.

[rob streeper]

I suppose then if I sent you a bag of sawdust they'd charge $78 per particle?:? Of course they'd need to count them all to ensure proper invoicing.:devilred:

[old1955]

Paul l can see the handle in a beautiful display case hanging on the wall.

Ross

[Bushmiller]

Ross

I did consider offering the handle up at cost price :D .

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

Woodpixel

I will be looking into alternatives.

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

Another small tribulation that is current revolves around a mix up of parcels. I was contacted by a seller to say he had sent me the wrong parcel. Another bloke was sent my parcel. So he asked me to send on to an address I was given. I organised with the shipping company to forward it and explained to the seller what it would cost. He said OK and do it. I did this, ut the situation now is that I have sent on the wrongly addressed parcel to the correct address and it has been delivered. I have not received payment for the shipping cost. Neither have I received my parcel and have had no further advice of it's whereabouts.

There is a distinct lack of communication from the seller despite several messages.

I have had no further contact from the Ebay seller and do not hold out for a good result other than to escalate it to Ebay for them to wade in on my behalf. This is the first time I have encountered such slack correspondence with anybody though the Ebay system.

Regards
Paul

[FenceFurniture]

PayPal is your friend for lodging a dispute/claim......

[doug3030]

PayPal is your friend for lodging a dispute/claim......

Not sure that paypal would be able to do anything about postage costs for forwarding a parcel by a third party.

[Bushmiller]

I have since looked up the seller's feedback. It transpires that he is a new seller and to boot has recently had a negative feedback saying that Ebay had to be called in to settle. I doubt he will want another negative so early.

I did take the precaution of getting his agreement at every step and all that discourse is available to Ebay.

Regards
Paul

[Simplicity]

Not sure that paypal would be able to do anything about postage costs for forwarding a parcel by a third party.

Immmm ,as Doug has said ,I'm not to sure about that.
But ,you have now forwarded a parcel on as a third party.not really knowing the first party at all.
I would be suspicious myself in that situation .
Paul please be careful.

Cheers Matt

[ian]

Immmm ,as Doug has said ,I'm not to sure about that.
But ,you have now forwarded a parcel on as a third party.not really knowing the first party at all.
I would be suspicious myself in that situation .
Paul please be careful.

Cheers Mattyeah, my thinking as well.

you should have returned the parcel and let the seller sort out the misdirection.

[rob streeper]

Sorry Paul, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.

[Bushmiller]

Rob

Not quite sure of the context here, but feathers definitely not ruffled. Decidedly smooth!.

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

Pictures?

My natural modesty and humbleness prevent me from showing you my smooth feathers. This is about the best I can do:

It's going to appear at the bottom of the post!

It is entitled "Blue Tits." Before the mods reach for their red pens I should explain that it was created as part of a national campaign for breast cancer awareness. It involved decorating bras in different and amusing ways. SWMBO made this one and is working on another decorated with bells and an Xmas theme. It will be called "Jingle Jugs."

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

My parcel arrived today with the offending handle:

417432

and an accompanying note:

417433

:rolleyes:

I was thinking of offering it to you blokes at cost price. It really is a very nicely finished bit of gear. I did exaggerate the price slightly. It actually only cost US$76 in additional charges (not $78 as previously advised) :wink: .

Now for the final irony: It was delivered this end by Australia Post. :(

Regards
Paul

[FenceFurniture]

and an accompanying note:
417433About as free as lunch.



I was thinking of offering it to you blokes at cost price.Ahhhh, thanks but no. It does like like the right shape for being stuck in the same place as your offer.

[Simplicity]

My parcel arrived today with the offending handle:

417432

and an accompanying note:

417433

:rolleyes:

I was thinking of offering it to you blokes at cost price. It really is a very nicely finished bit of gear. I did exaggerate the price slightly. It actually only cost US$76 in additional charges (not $78 as previously advised) :wink: .

Now for the final irony: It was delivered this end by Australia Post. :(

Regards
Paul

Will your offer be including postage?!!!!

[Bushmiller]

Matt

I will add on the US component and an Australian cost: Not getting stung twice!

:D

Regards
Paul

[Simplicity]

Matt

I will add on the US component and an Australian cost: Not getting stung twice!

:D

Regards
Paul

I think I'm just going to ship out of this thread before it all gets to woody and pointy

Cheers Matt

[Bushmiller]

This morning I lodged the first stage of complaint with Ebay. In four days if I have not heard from the seller I will tun it over to the Ebay police. I may get some compensation for the non delivery of goods, but I don't hold out much hope on the postage for the item I forwarded. I last heard from the seller on 14 July despite several attempts at contact. My own thinking is that I should not have to chase him even once. Compare this to a Forum member who last night asked if he could buy one of the froes I have been making. The money was in my PayPal account within minutes!

I think that if it were not for people like that I would be extremely twisted and bitter.

Regards
Paul

[doug3030]

My own thinking is that I should not have to chase him even once.

I agree with that in principal, but in reality it is probably a bit harsh. Mistakes can happen and not always the sellers fault.

However worst case scenario you should only have to contact him ONCE and if you explain the situation accurately that should be all that you need to do.

And of course not nearly on every transaction.

Cheers

Doug

[rob streeper]

I think that if it were not for people like that I would be extremely twisted and bitter.



Indeed.

I had an incident recently and PP decided in my favor (...our?). Wasn't much but it was very irritating considering. I responded to the 'complaint' with 23 pages of emails, including one wherein the complainer attempted to extort me. Seemed to satisfy the deciders.

Fortunately things like this are in the minority in my experience. Last I had was over two years ago with a guy who apparently didn't know how to follow directions.

[Sawdust Maker]

Ah postage costs

In the last couple of days I received a package from a camera supplier in the US
I usually get shipped to my PO Box (doesn't get left at front door or rained on)
so using PO address $98, what
using front door address $46
and the PO option would have taken an extra week

[Bushmiller]

It may seem like a foolhardy decision of mine to forward the incorrectly sent goods to the intended buyer before receiving payment (and in retrospect it was), but the seller contacted me explaining that the parcels had been mixed up. This is not an unreasonable mistake and it seemed that he was trying to make amends.

On that basis, and to assist both him and the intended recipient, I organised the parcel to be forwarded after gaining his approval for the cost. Bear in mind I am doing this from Australia for a package going from California to Iowa. There has been no further contact. It is two weeks since I last heard and I have not received my purchase.

The best scenario I can imagine is that there has been a catastrophic event befallen the seller prohibiting him from responding, although I concede that would not be a good scenario for him. However, on reflection the tone of his last communications should have sent alarm bells.

In my last communication asking why he had not responded I finished by apologising if there were circumstances, of which I was unaware, that were preventing him contacting me. I accept, that people become ill for example.

I await developments.

Regards
Paul

[doug3030]

It may seem like a foolhardy decision of mine to forward the incorrectly sent goods to the intended buyer before receiving payment

Not sure that foolhardy is the right word. You are a good person and you try to see the good in others. Unfortunately, this time you might finish up out of pocket.

I used to be in business for myself. I did concrete garden edging. I never worried about getting people to sign contracts or anything like that. I worked on a handshake. I had no problems at all with this for seven years then some idiot let me down and cost me about $100 when he canceled a job after I had ordered the concrete colour (an unusual one that would be unlikely to be ordered again).

My initial thought was to change the way I worked and get people to sign legally binding contracts like all the other similar businesses were. Then I stopped and thought about it a bit more and decided to go on as I was and not change my way of doing business just for one Pr!@#. I never got burned again for the rest of the time I was in business, which was quite a few years until my back went out.

Paul, your situation is similar.
Could you have avoided this situation? Not entirely.
Could you be in a better situation if you did it differently? Possibly.
Do you want to change yourself due to the misdeeds of others? I hope not.

Cheers

Doug

[woodPixel]

Doug, perhaps you could have left the pile of concrete on the lawn? But then again $100 isnt such a bad thing.

Bushmiller, I think you are being too kind and too nice. Use the failbacks that Paypal have in place. Let the system do the work. The reason that vendors pay that 4% (or whatever) premium for fees is to act as a universal insurer against such scenarios.

Mr Seller may find a hard time selling on any eBay property from then on. That in itself will be a good motivation.

Additionally, once Paypal talks to eBay, they will know who Mr Scoundrel is who didn't forward your parcel. He may well find a hard time from then on too. Perhaps even a visit from the police.

I know this, for this same sort of thing happened to me. I buy antique tin robots. They are very expensive and hard to get. The seller (in the US) decided to ship some plastic rubbish and proceeded to double sell the item on ebay... he sold it twice. Now, he tried to claim it was a pair, or twin, but unfortunately for him they are not only gold-plated-hens-teeth rare, but the robot collecting community is tiny. He happened to sell it to a person I knew. I contacted Paypal who *eventually* refunded me - but importantly, they sicced a debt collector onto the seller.

When he claimed 19 fatal diseases, dementia for his mistakes/memory loss and the fact he was in outer mongolia at the time (all lies) they called the cops who dragged him into court.

I found out all this due to the prosecution needing the facts. Well, it didnt work out too well for Mr Fraudster as they literally stripped him of his assets to recover their money. The US seems to be pretty nasty with that kind of thing (but then again, he was a prick who deserved it).

A different situation to yours, for sure, but the violent end of Paypal isn't all love and light. They hire some serious leg breakers and don't take kindly to being ripped off.

All I can suggest is a level head, retention of all documents/emails/etc and an accurate chronology. Be simple, truthful and just wait. It will, eventually, be worked out in your favour.

[Bushmiller]

Doug

I like your philosophy. May I say it speaks volumes for the person you are too. At this stage I think it will make me lookmore closely at the feedback. Unfortunately that is not always the best guide either and unfortunately the way it is calculated can erase negativity quite quickly.

The seller concerned in this instance is new to Ebay only joining this year, but already with only a few feedbacks (14), and many of those as a buyer his rating was in the low 90% range and this was due to one negative reply ( goods did not arrive and Ebay police involved). What this has done already is make me look closely at other sellers.

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

Woodpixel

I hear you and as I said the first stage of Ebay's involvement is in place. I have to wait four days to give the seller a chance to respond.

I had not appreciated that Ebay got as heavy as in your incident. I think your robot was worth a lot more than my saw :wink: .

Regards
paul

[woodPixel]

Sorry if I was ranty. He was a Red Faced Zoomer. Super mint. Super rare (there are but 3 I know of) and it was a sad affair all up. It burnt me a lot and my trust went down.

Its a shame this isn't an overall public score, ones Trust-o-meter. I'd suppose this is where Facebook might help somewhat.... ones public image is terribly important.

I hope your saw works out. Small things burn too much time.

[Simplicity]

Just read this on Facebook
And thought of Paul's issue

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1410047249324398/permalink/1855254364803682/

Cheers Matt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sawdust Maker]

strange

[Bushmiller]

Matt

I saw your post come in as I was on the phone to Ebay.

Almost needless to say I had not heard from the seller concerned. I lodged a complaint with Ebay's resolution centre for not receiving the goods and heard back within a couple of hours that it had be denied as the tracking history showed it had been delivered. I was ropeable and could not access any further complaints mechanism. Subsequent efforts to appeal the decision fell into a pile as I seemed unable to dial the number given, which was a US number. Finally after accessing the listing through my Australian Ebay account I found another "dial me" number.

This got me through to a lady called Marie, who was quite helpful and immediately accessed my dispute details. She said that she would have to escalate this to a higher department and I spoke with Lauren, who again was very helpful. She said that the sale would be refunded, but that the additional shipping with the incorrectly sent goods was out of Ebay's jurisdiction, which didn't surprise me. She was apologetic and advised she would have liked to have helped, but couldn't.

Finally she said she would forward the seller's telephone number and advise them to expect a call from me. I may be able to recoup my loss there, but am not hopeful. The call centre was apparently in the Philipines.

Lesson learned is to either send only when postage cost has been received or to return to the seller. To echo Doug's thoughts, the vast majority of people out there are both good and ethical. I have made some excellent acquaintances in the US through Ebay: As in really good, so I m not going to let one mongrel spoil that feeling.

Regards
Paul

[Simplicity]

Matt

I saw your post come in as I was on the phone to Ebay.

Almost needless to say I had not heard from the seller concerned. I lodged a complaint with Ebay's resolution centre for not receiving the goods and heard back within a couple of hours that it had be denied as the tracking history showed it had been delivered. I was ropeable and could not access any further complaints mechanism. Subsequent efforts to appeal the decision fell into a pile as I seemed unable to dial the number given, which was a US number. Finally after accessing the listing through my Australian Ebay account I found another "dial me" number.

This got me through to a lady called Marie, who was quite helpful and immediately accessed my dispute details. She said that she would have to escalate this to a higher department and I spoke with Lauren, who again was very helpful. She said that the sale would be refunded, but that the additional shipping with the incorrectly sent goods was out of Ebay's jurisdiction, which didn't surprise me. She was apologetic and advised she would have liked to have helped, but couldn't.

Finally she said she would forward the seller's telephone number and advise them to expect a call from me. I may be able to recoup my loss there, but am not hopeful. The call centre was apparently in the Philipines.

Lesson learned is to either send only when postage cost has been received or to return to the seller. To echo Doug's thoughts, the vast majority of people out there are both good and ethical. I have made some excellent acquaintances in the US through Ebay: As in really good, so I m not going to let one mongrel spoil that feeling.

Regards
Paul

Paul.
It's a shame that generally 95 percent of the world population are nice normal folks.
5 percent are compleat (insert expletives) and take 95 percent of our time sometimes.
Hence why we need laws unfortunately.
For the five percent.


Cheers Matt

[Bushmiller]

Hence why we need laws unfortunately.





Just on the subject of laws I was listening to Julian Burnside talking of the radio. He quoted some pomie judge who maintained that the doors of the legal system were always open to the general public in much the same way as the doors to the Savoy hotel were always open.

Regards
Paul

[woodPixel]

This is an old quote.

Personally I think thieves should be publically flogged to within 1% of their lives.

[Bushmiller]

The plot thickens a little. As I mentioned before, Ebay promised to refund my purchase priceincluding postage, which came to US$26.70. This has been done.
Then, after not hearing since 15 July, the seller contactedme yesterday as follows:
“9534611428027188027907 was the tracking number”
There was no pre-amble or explanation as to why he had remainedsilent for all this time and he had not replied to any of the emails I hadrecently sent.
I checked the tracking and found it had been delivered tothe shipping facility in Hawthorne, California. I contacted the facility bylive chat and explained the problem. I suspected that there was a problem witheither my name of the storage number and in that I was correct. The storage boxnumber was wrong so it had just sat there in limbo.
So now, because of the trouble I had experienced to date, Irequested a picture of the goods. I have seen it and verified that it is theitem I purchased. It looks like after all this after deducting the postageincurred for the re-posting of the other item, I now owe him US$7.00!
I have contacted him outlining the sequence of events andcommenting that the complete lack of communication was responsible for theescaltionof the dispute to the Ebay police.
Regards
Paul

[doug3030]

It looks like after all this after deducting the postageincurred for the re-posting of the other item, I now owe him US$7.00!

If I understand it correctly Paul, the extra cost of the postage also included shipping what you thought was your item to Milmerran. Now you have to organise to get the actual item you ordered shipped. Take his US$7 out of that postage cost and he probably still owes you money.

Cheers

Doug

[woodPixel]

An excellent outcome.

Do do the right thing. Karma.

[Bushmiller]

If I understand it correctly Paul, the extra cost of the postage also included shipping what you thought was your item to Milmerran. Now you have to organise to get the actual item you ordered shipped. Take his US$7 out of that postage cost and he probably still owes you money.

Cheers

Doug

Doug

Not quite. The wrong parcel only went as far as Hawthorne. It is back to the original scenario and would have been consolidated at Hawthorne with other parcels destined for Millmerran. Luckily it has arrived just in time for shipping by three days.