Old Chair Needs Restoring

[EagerBeaver71]

G'day guys,

I have a new project, this time an old chair I picked up at savers for a few quid. My wife will be dealing with upholstery side of the chair however I need advice on finishing the wood. I've sanded one leg back as you can see in the photo's, I've got no idea what sort of wood it is or what sort of finish it had on it originally but I would like to come as close to the original (tone&colour) on it as what you can see in the photo's.

Any advice is much appreciated.

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[Xanthorrhoeas]

My guess is that was a spray lacquer finish "mahogany pigment colour". The chair may be old, but it is not antique. It is a 'generic' reproduction piece.

Really, you can do anything you want with it. It isn't possible to reduce its value. You could re-spray it if you want it look the same "reproduction" look. But, why don't you have some fun with it and practice some skills? If you use a spirit-based stain, or a water based stain you could then try your hand at a shellac finish. This timber looks pretty plain, so it might not be worthwhile, but the spray lacquers are pigmented and hide the figure in the timber. Spirit or water stains can augment the figure and then a shellac finish provides transparency and life to the timber.

A word of warning, don't spend too much on the upholstery fabric unless you want to live with it for a long time to recoup the value.

[EagerBeaver71]

My guess is that was a spray lacquer finish "mahogany pigment colour".

Hey, Thanks for the reply mate, so the finish thats on it is mahogany pigmented?, I'm not familiar with all the different wood pigment colours...

[Xanthorrhoeas]

Yes, as you can see, the wood is very pale in colour so all the colour is in the lacquer. I am definitely not knowledgeable about the different types of spray lacquer nor how they are coloured, so that description may be quite incorrect. However, I am sure the chairs have been sprayed with a coloured lacquer. The commonest timber to imitate is Mahogany so that is my guess for them, though it could have been named Walnut or some other timber colour too. However, if you are going to spray them, the way to be sure is to get some sample cards for different coloured lacquers and place them next to the chair. After all, it doesn't matter what the original lacquer is called, or what the new lacquer is called as long as the colour is what you want.

There are many people on the forums who use spray lacquer a lot and are knowledgeable about it so hopefully one of them will respond with some advice if you intend to respray them. I never use lacquer so can't help with it.

If you do not want to use spray lacquer or experiment with shellac you could look at the readily available polyurethane brush on or wipe on finishes. Some of those come coloured, and once again, the sample cards will be useful to compare with your existing colour. You could also stain the timber with a spirit stain or water based stain and finish with a clear polyurethane over the top. The poly finishes are hard wearing too. You can get turps clean-up polys (oil based) and water clean-up poly too - which is easier to use in some ways. I don't know enough to advise which is the longest-wearing though I suspect it would be the oil-based poly. I have used the water clean-up poly on a Hoop Pine bookcase for my father and was very happy with it, but chairs get more wear.

I would never recommend polyurethane for an antique but for these chairs I would just use whatever was easiest and gave the look that you want. These forums also have some knowledgeable poly finish users who could give you more advice on them. If that is the way that you want to go I suggest posting a "help with polyurethane finish" thread to get their interest.

Good luck

David

[Lappa]

Maybe its just crazing, but is that a crack at the top of the leg?


416090

[EagerBeaver71]

Maybe its just crazing, but is that a crack at the top of the leg?


416090

Thankfully not a crack. Not sure what it is though.

[EagerBeaver71]

Yes, as you can see, the wood is very pale in colour so all the colour is in the lacquer. I am definitely not knowledgeable about the different types of spray lacquer nor how they are coloured, so that description may be quite incorrect. However, I am sure the chairs have been sprayed with a coloured lacquer. The commonest timber to imitate is Mahogany so that is my guess for them, though it could have been named Walnut or some other timber colour too. However, if you are going to spray them, the way to be sure is to get some sample cards for different coloured lacquers and place them next to the chair. After all, it doesn't matter what the original lacquer is called, or what the new lacquer is called as long as the colour is what you want.

There are many people on the forums who use spray lacquer a lot and are knowledgeable about it so hopefully one of them will respond with some advice if you intend to respray them. I never use lacquer so can't help with it.

If you do not want to use spray lacquer or experiment with shellac you could look at the readily available polyurethane brush on or wipe on finishes. Some of those come coloured, and once again, the sample cards will be useful to compare with your existing colour. You could also stain the timber with a spirit stain or water based stain and finish with a clear polyurethane over the top. The poly finishes are hard wearing too. You can get turps clean-up polys (oil based) and water clean-up poly too - which is easier to use in some ways. I don't know enough to advise which is the longest-wearing though I suspect it would be the oil-based poly. I have used the water clean-up poly on a Hoop Pine bookcase for my father and was very happy with it, but chairs get more wear.

I would never recommend polyurethane for an antique but for these chairs I would just use whatever was easiest and gave the look that you want. These forums also have some knowledgeable poly finish users who could give you more advice on them. If that is the way that you want to go I suggest posting a "help with polyurethane finish" thread to get their interest.

Good luck

David

Hi Dave, Spaying them would be the best choice for me but where would I get the spray from?, unless I've missed it at Bunnings?

[rustynail]

The crack looks like a felling shake. These are caused when a tree is felled and falls over another log or branch causing the tree to bend over the other as it comes down. Sometimes these cracks are not severe as most is on the outer of the log and sawing has only left a trace. It would be fair to assume this is what has happened to your chair as it hasn't caused a problem to date.
I agree with the stain and spray lacquer approach. This is the quickest way to get a finish onto it.

[Arron]

Hi Dave, Spaying them would be the best choice for me but where would I get the spray from?, unless I've missed it at Bunnings?

A spray lacquer is more likely to come from somewhere like Wattyl Industrial (for Stylewood) or Mirotone (for Mirolac). Not from Bunnings. Supercheap Auto and Repco usually have something too.

[EagerBeaver71]

I should mention that I don't have a HVLP so I would need spray can form.

[EagerBeaver71]

Supercheap Auto and Repco usually have something too.

Hi Arron, Which products at Repco & Supercheap?, I can't find any?

[Arron]

Hi Arron, Which products at Repco & Supercheap?, I can't find any?

I bought a 3M spray lacquer from Supercheap a while back - I think they still have it.

There is also this one. Septone Paint - Acrylic, Clear, 1 Litre - Supercheap Auto (http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Septone-Paint-Acrylic-Clear-1-Litre/105729?menuFrom=1021779) .

Really, though, I don't understand why this is being complicated with talk of spray lacquers and rattle cans. It's a simple job. Strip it. Stain it. Put a couple of coats of polyurethane varnish on and it's done. Easy, why make it hard.

If you are worried about brush strokes just use some Penetrol in the poly.

i don't much like poly, but it has its place and this is one of them.

One thing I can guarantee you is that once the job is finished people will look at the upholstery - no-one except maybe a few grumpy old woodworkers will ever get up close and critical withthe timber work.

It looks like a good upholstery job. Those rolled edges in the hessian are a hallmark of a well done job. Someone stitched those with a mattress needle. The tacking is neat too. The webbing is a poor sort but may have been all they could get. The string ties through the webbing indicate coil springs have been used. It would be a good project to try and redo it in the same traditional techniques that have been used.

Style-wise, I think it's 1940s. Hard to tell though.

It may also be stuffed with horse hair. Save that - it's impossible to get now.

[EagerBeaver71]

I bought a 3M spray lacquer from Supercheap a while back - I think they still have it.

There is also this one. Septone Paint - Acrylic, Clear, 1 Litre - Supercheap Auto (http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Septone-Paint-Acrylic-Clear-1-Litre/105729?menuFrom=1021779) .

Ah, I was looking for stain and lacquer in one spray can, not the clear. Does anyone sell a stain and gloss lacquer in one? (spray can form).



Really, though, I don't understand why this is being complicated with talk of spray lacquers and rattle cans. It's a simple job. Strip it. Stain it. Put a couple of coats of polyurethane varnish on and it's done. Easy, why make it hard.

Wont staining it make all the imperfections pop out?, I just want something I can apply that will look like the original finish, I don't mind the hard work of say wet sanding as long as the finish is what I want.


One thing I can guarantee you is that once the job is finished people will look at the upholstery - no-one except maybe a few grumpy old woodworkers will ever get up close and critical withthe timber work.

No, just one grumpy wife if its not right!lol



It may also be stuffed with horse hair. Save that - it's impossible to get now.

Yep spot on, it was full of horse hair, 1940s seems about right too...

[Arron]

I'm pretty sure no one sells stain and lacquer premixed. Never seen it.

You'd have to add it yourself if it's the way you want to go.

Personally, I'd have to be pretty sure I can't fill and stain (prior to topcoats) to an acceptable level before I went for a varnish/stain product. Again, it complicates something that doesn't have to be - and removes a lot of control.

[Arron]

And on your other point - some stains will make imperfections pop out, some won't.

[EagerBeaver71]

And on your other point - some stains will make imperfections pop out, some won't.

Hi Arron, So do you think I should go a combo stain&varnish/poly or a stain then spray some clear coat on?, I also want a gloss finish not satin. What stain would you suggest?.

[Arron]

I would always choose a separate stain followed by separate top coats where I can. The only time I would choose a combined varnish/stain product would be where the item is in particularly bad shape and you have a lot to hide. That doesn't seem to be the case here but I can't see enough to tell.

Combined varnish/stain products tend to be more turgid and difficult to apply then a straight varnish. Also, where it's uneven you get different levels of intensity, and if things don't go as expected and you find you need to apply more coats then planned then you get a darker finish then desired.

I know combined stain/lacquer products are used extensively in the volume furniture industry but they typically have elaborate spraying setups to achieve their results.

If this was mine I would start by getting some similar timber, stain it, then mix up some filler till it closely matches the stained result. I have a collection of Timbermate in various colours which I mix together till satisfied.

If the timber is porous I would put some Timbermate or similar in the microwave till it is a soft slurry, and wipe this all over the frame, kind of grinding it in. This is 'grain filling'.

After it's dried, I'd sand it all off. Then I'd look for all the holes and divets which were not filled by this process. These will be larger holes like nail holes etc. then it's a matter of filling these with the filler mixed up to the right colour as above. This is 'gap filling'.

A lot of people complain about this type of product sanding low or even falling out. I think maybe they sand it too soon, before it has fully cured (ie it's dry but not fully cured). Not sure about this though.

Then I would stain it. I am unable to give a recommendation because we are living in temporary accommodation and all my stuff is in storage so I am unable to consult the can. I usually use something in a yellow can, which is more of a 'sit on top' product then a 'sink in' product like a spirit stain. Thus it tends to hide stuff a bit, and doesn't accentuate flaws like that felling shake. Sorry I can't remember the names.

Then I would apply several coats of top coat. I would use an industrial spray lacquer, but if you are not set up for spraying then no problem, use polyurethane varnish by brush. Most people on this forum don't like polyurethane varnishes, largely because they are not repairable, should you get dings or scratches (shellac and lacquer are repairable). In this case I don't think it matters - people very rarely repair finishes on chairs - they just get knocked around and people tend to accept that till it's time to do the complete strip and refinish. Another problem with poly is brush and lap marks. You can largely get past this by using Penetrol additive and a good brush. Penetrol is a good product and can leave a finish nearly as smooth as spray lacquer with experience.

Be careful about recommendations to use spray unless you have some prior experience. There is a learning curve involved and chairs are one of the worst things to learn on. Big flat things are easy for beginners but chairs have a lot of angles and hard to reach bits.

I wouldn't use a rattle can - costly, and giving a delicate, low build finish. I wouldn't use a wipe-on poly either - again a delicate, low build finish of short lifespan - not suitable for furniture.

Whatever I did, I would do it first on a test piece.

I'm not crazy about the arms on those chairs - otherwise they have a good shape and are a project well worth doing.

[Arron]

Just found a can of the stain I use in this situation. It's 'Wattyl Interior Stain'.

It's described on the can as semi-transparent, so it's what I use over old timberwork when I want to do a bit of hiding. its not really semi-transparent, more like 20% transparent.

[Arron]

Sorry, in the previous post I meant to say 80% transparent, not 20%.