Sick of Telstra Bashing

[adrian]

Is anyone else as tired of all the crap and misinformation that's said about Telstra as I am.
The service we get from Telstra is very good and anyone who thinks it's bad, should ask their parents what it was like thirty years ago. Back then IF country people could get a phone they had to share the line with their neighbour. If the neighbour liked a bit of a chat you had to wait until they finished.
Most of the country exchanges were manual and if the operator was off sick or out for a smoke you didn't make your call.
Repair delays were longer in the country than they are now.

The accepted failure rate in telephone exchanges for outgoing calls was about 2.5%. I live in the country and I've had one call fail to connect after dialling. That's in 7 years. Crossed lines and calls dropping out used to be a normal events but are rare as hens teeth now.
The lines were poor quality and very often you couldn't hear the person at the other end because of static. Now you can transmit data over them.

Now we have reporters interviewing someone in a town like Tennant Creek and saying how deplorable it is that the mobile doesn't work 200metres out of town :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

People have very short memories. The Universal Service Obligation has made country people believe that is's a god given right to get the same phone service as city people. When I worked in telephone exchanges the cost of providing a city service was about $3000 and cost of a country service was $10,000. Country people should just be glad that the service isn't provided on a user pays basis. If it was, most of us wouldn't be able to afford a phone at all.

[bitingmidge]

Adrian,

Your point on mobile coverage is taken, and physically it's not possible to reach the entire continent while we rely on line of sight technology.

I'm not a Telstra Basher, (normally) but you've raised a few issues for to which I can only respond with questions.

I think to talk of 30 years ago, is drawing a long bow, after all technology has changed a little, and we no longer need to have people manning switchboards in exchanges. If there had been no progression I would be very surprised indeed.

Has there actually been 30 years of progress? It seems to me as though not much has changed in the last 10.

Question: Tennant Creek is not quite as far away from network infrastructure as some of the places I visited last month, so how is it that without the miracle of Telstra, I was paying less than 50c an hour for broadband internet in the back blocks of Siberia, and Mongolia??

If you think providing a network is a challenge here, then it's time you visited Tuva.

I too have lived in rather remote Aus locations (more than thirty years ago to be fair) but I just can't get my head around the fact that there's something missing here, whether that's infrastructure spending or what, I don't know.

I had the "interesting" experience of accompanying MathewA to a Telstra shop when he arrived in Aus, to connect his phone, internet and buy a mobile . Let's just say it wasn't a user-friendly experience, and this is a country where I speak the language, and am reasonably familiar with the system.

In Siberia, about 10,000 k's from anywhere, I walked into a shop with a friend, we couldn't read or speak the language, but walked out in a few minutes a few dollars lighter with a new card in his phone, and receiving texts from England.

Draw any conclusions you like, just don't be misled into thinking we have a fantastic or economical communications network.

Cheers,

P (But the weather's good here!)

:cool: :cool: :cool:

[silentC]

Country people should just be glad that the service isn't provided on a user pays basis.
It is! If I want to call a number in Sydney, it costs me a hell of a lot more now than it did when I lived there.

Why should country people not expect a similar standard of service to the cities? We pay the same taxes. I'm sure there's a lot of money spent in Sydney that doesn't benefit me directly too.

[knucklehead]

It is! If I want to call a number in Sydney, it costs me a hell of a lot more now than it did when I lived there.

Why should country people not expect a similar standard of service to the cities? We pay the same taxes. I'm sure there's a lot of money spent in Sydney that doesn't benefit me directly too.

Silent, if it really was user pays it would have nothing to do with the taxes you pay.

[silentC]

I never said it did. The use of the system is user pays: you pay for the calls you make, unless you are suggesting that they are subsidised by our taxes. It costs me more to call my friends in Sydney than it did when I lived there. I'm further away - it costs more - user pays.

However, our taxes pay for the infrastructure and that is not strictly user pays (although I bet it costs me more to put on my phone here than it would in Sydney) and neither should it be. Like I said, plenty of my tax money goes into improvements in Sydney, so why should city people begrudge Telstra spending money out here to improve our services?

[knucklehead]

Much of the complaints about Telstra are justified. However it is often the case that Telstra ha been left to clean up the mess of crazy legislation.

For instance many regional areas had good relable mobile phone coverage under the analogue system. Then legistaltion was passed that the operating (working and payed for) sytem would need to be turned off and all new system built in the name of "a level playing field". So that other Telcos would not be at an disadvantage. Many regional areas now have worse coverage and Telstra is still the only carrier available.

Then there is the so called "local loop" legislation, which requires Telstra to install and maintain the cable runs into to brand new housing estates. Once the phone lines are in the new lines can be taken over by other Telcos. On one housing estate I saw the projections of income, it was estimated that it would be 600 years until the cost of installation had been recovered from a user pays system. What company would invest with that sort of return?

Midge your point about the T shops is right on the money. They are without a doubt the most frustrating outlet that I have ever dealt with. My money now goes else where.

[Gumby]

Well according to a new system currently under trial, the old Telstra lines will become defunct and all phone and internet communications will be going through existing power lines. The power companies can provide the same service as Tel$tra do now and the broadband connections are 4 times the current speed of adsl. Then they'll face some really stiff competition.

[silentC]

What company would invest with that sort of return?
Exactly!!

That's why the government should not be selling Telstra because it is not a viable business unless cutbacks are made. By making it profit driven, money will only be spent in areas where a reasonable return can be made. It's deja vu. Commonwealth Bank all over again.

[knucklehead]

Well according to a new system currently under trial, the old Telstra lines will become defunct and all phone and internet communications will be going through existing power lines. The power companies can provide the same service as Tel$tra do now and the broadband connections are 4 times the current speed of adsl. Then they'll face some really stiff competition.


Maybe.
About ten years ago I was sort listed for a job with a power company to roll out the system you are talking about. Every couple of years there is another wave of interest. Currently the power companies are not getting anywhere near the reliablity that is required. However they do seem to be getting close. They are still a long way off from you and I using it but they should be able to wholesale to big customers in the near future.

[knucklehead]

Exactly!!

That's why the government should not be selling Telstra because it is not a viable business unless cutbacks are made. By making it profit driven, money will only be spent in areas where a reasonable return can be made. It's deja vu. Commonwealth Bank all over again.

Yes quite right.
There is another thing too. Telstra is still building these networks with in the same manner it did 100 years ago.i.e underground copper line. They really need to look for more cost effective ways of doing the same thing.

[Gumby]

Maybe.
About ten years ago I was sort listed for a job with a power company to roll out the system you are talking about. Every couple of years there is another wave of interest. Currently the power companies are not getting anywhere near the reliablity that is required. However they do seem to be getting close. They are still a long way off from you and I using it but they should be able to wholesale to big customers in the near future.

They've got 500 homes (in Tassie I think it is) on the system now. They couldn't get adsl through the phone (too far away from exchange) and so they built the whole area using this sytem. They pay about 10 cents per call and overseas is about half price as well. It was on TV the other night - I just happened to be channel surfing and watched it. I think they said another 6 months trial still to go but those residents interviewed were all for it. The savings just on phone line renatls are about $35/month, not to mention
the cheaper calls and faster internet. There's a special attachment which just plugs into your power point and has all sorts of plugs coming off it. Sort of like the rear of your computer. They were saying that the possibilities for this were just about endless.

[silentC]

http://www.tastel.com.au/bpl/faq_products.html

[knucklehead]

Yeah when I was looking at the job, voice communications (phone) was the main aim. Looks like they have given up on that and have moved in to IP.
Smart move. The IP stuff is eaier to deliever and you get more money for it.

[echnidna]

I will continue to bash Telstra until they provide acceptable services.

[Schtoo]

I don't know about Telstra per se, I haven't had the (dis)pleasure of dealing with them very much.

But I can tell you about here.

If you want a telephone connected to your house, it will cost you nearly $800 to buy a subscription. You gotta have that before they will even talk to you about a phone line. Another $50 to hook it up, and you still have to buy your own phone, because they (NTT) don't provide one with the line.

However, we have ADSL here, and were given the modem, cables, splitters, etc to make it work gratis (free!).We make maybe 30 minutes of international calls here per month, 1.5M/s ADSL, a few phonecalls, rental subscription (we didn't pay the $800, spreading it out), etc, etc. Out bill rarely runs over $60 per month.

My mobile phone and my wife's phone cost about $70 per month, for both of them. We get the messaging stuff, we rarely have no signal (unless underground), and our phones have a list of countries that you can switch them to so they will work. That includes Australia, NZ, USA, Canada, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Thailand, etc. Not cheap, but it's a few button pushes away. My phone is 3 months shy of 2 years old now, andway back when, it blew everyone in Oz who saw it away. International roaming, camera, dictionary, etc, etc.

Newest version of my phone has GPS, TV, Radio, 2Mp camera, etc, etc. And I'll be given the thing because if you use their phone system, they give you points so you can buy a phone with it. And no contract BS. :D

That's just the phone companies.

Now don't get me wrong, there are an amazing number of things that range from slightly annoying to absolutely bewildering here, plus amazingly good. The good and bad can be in the same place on the same day.

But I tell you what, if Telstra tried to but in here, it just wouldn't work. Draw your own analogy. At the same time, plenty of things here wouldn't fly in Oz either.

It is getting to the point though, that if a company wants to compete, heck, if they want to survive, they have to do it in an international market.

Anyways, just mentioning what's it like here. You haven't got it all good, nor all bad, but I think Telstra are lagging behind what they could be doing... ;)

[kiwigeo]

If you want a telephone connected to your house, it will cost you nearly $800 to buy a subscription. You gotta have that before they will even talk to you about a phone line. Another $50 to hook it up, and you still have to buy your own phone, because they (NTT) don't provide one with the line.

;)

When I was living in Japan you were able to on sell your phone service to another person. Alot of the expats I knew would pass on their service to incoming expats for a fair price when they left the country.

My brother who currently lives in Osaka handles all his emails via his mobile phone..is cheaper than doing it via broadband over a normal phone line.

[adrian]

Question: Tennant Creek is not quite as far away from network infrastructure as some of the places I visited last month, so how is it that without the miracle of Telstra, I was paying less than 50c an hour for broadband internet in the back blocks of Siberia, and Mongolia??



I agree, it could be better but with a population only 60%of the size of California in a country the size of the lower fourty eight states in the US what country do you choose as a benchmark?. Who do you want Telstra to be as good as? There isn't a phone company in the world (including US companies) who would like to come to Australia to service a market of 20 million people and have to spend billions on the infrastructure needed to reach them. When was the last time you heard Optus or Vodaphone offer to take on the cost of infrastructure to service the bush? It's not happening and never will. Its the same reason that a lot of country roads are still dirt. There just isn't the population to justify all that expense.
We are rather unique among western countries because we have a huge land mass and a population the size of many western cities. When you look at the infrastructure we've built over the last century it's a testament to a socialist style of government rather than capitalism that's been so successful in countries with larger populations or smaller land masses. All of our infrastrucure has been built by government owned companies using our taxes because no company on the planet would have been able to do it for such a small market.

Having said that, your tax dollars haven't provided much in the way of infrastructure for Telstra in the past 20 years and none at all in the past 10. As a matter of fact any taxpayer's money almost certainly went to the bush to make up for the shortfall. City taxpayers have been subsidising bush services for as long as Australia has had phones. The Commonwealth Bank and Qantas were both built on our taxes and I don't think anybody gets on a 747 and gripes about their taxes paying for it.

There will still be a Universal Service Obligation as there is in many western countries. But the rather ludicrous notion being bandied about, that country people should have an automatic right to a 'city quality phone service' is fairyland stuff.
If anyone wants to moan about the level of service in the bush just ask Carbatec why they don't have a shop in Lightning Ridge. You'll get a good lecture about economics.

[adrian]

I don't know about Telstra per se, I haven't had the (dis)pleasure of dealing with them very much.

But I can tell you about here.


Your's is a very good example. Japan is small enough so that if a sparrow breaks wind, most of the country will hear it and half the country will smell it. There's a population of 125 million crammed into a small space. Most companies in the world would be queueing up to do business there.
You're comparing apples and oranges when you compare it to Oz.

[MajorPanic]

Country people should just be glad that the service isn't provided on a user pays basis.

City people should be glad food produce isn't provided on a user pays basis!

[outback]

:eek:

[MathewA]

I agree, it could be better but with a population only 60%of the size of California in a country the size of the lower fourty eight states in the US what country do you choose as a benchmark?. Who do you want Telstra to be as good as? There isn't a phone company in the world (including US companies) who would like to come to Australia to service a market of 20 million people and have to spend billions on the infrastructure needed to reach them. When was the last time you heard Optus or Vodaphone offer to take on the cost of infrastructure to service the bush? It's not happening and never will. Its the same reason that a lot of country roads are still dirt. There just isn't the population to justify all that expense.
We are rather unique among western countries because we have a huge land mass and a population the size of many western cities. When you look at the infrastructure we've built over the last century it's a testament to a socialist style of government rather than capitalism that's been so successful in countries with larger populations or smaller land masses. All of our infrastrucure has been built by government owned companies using our taxes because no company on the planet would have been able to do it for such a small market.

Having said that, your tax dollars haven't provided much in the way of infrastructure for Telstra in the past 20 years and none at all in the past 10. As a matter of fact any taxpayer's money almost certainly went to the bush to make up for the shortfall. City taxpayers have been subsidising bush services for as long as Australia has had phones. The Commonwealth Bank and Qantas were both built on our taxes and I don't think anybody gets on a 747 and gripes about their taxes paying for it.

There will still be a Universal Service Obligation as there is in many western countries. But the rather ludicrous notion being bandied about, that country people should have an automatic right to a 'city quality phone service' is fairyland stuff.
If anyone wants to moan about the level of service in the bush just ask Carbatec why they don't have a shop in Lightning Ridge. You'll get a good lecture about economics.

Canada's a good bench mark. A ten times better system there than anything you could hope for here. 35 million people in a country that is about the same size as Aus but hundred times less accessable and the maintanence costs are much higher. I doubt telus or any other canadian telecommunication company would ever want to come anywhere near here, the systems a joke. The only thing that I could fugure out is that it is deliberately made this bad simpy to confuse the users into paying far too much.

10 times the service for half the price or less - you decide.

[Rocker]

Adrian,

I live in an area that, according to the latest plan, lies within the 'urban footprint' of Brisbane. When I look up when we are due to get broadband, the answer is "August". It is now mid-September, and still no broadband. If this is the service we 'city' folk get from Telstra, God help the bush.

Rocker

[MajorPanic]

I live in an area that, according to the latest plan, lies within the 'urban footprint' of Brisbane.

"urban footprint"??

I gotta pack a slab & 4 rounds on white to get to Rockers'!! ;) :D :D :D

[Gingermick]

However, our taxes pay for the infrastructure

No, we pay taxes to the government of the day for the right to live here and then they pay for the infrastructure, how else could they sell it back to us.


That's why the government should not be selling Telstra because it is not a viable business unless cutbacks are made. By making it profit driven, money will only be spent in areas where a reasonable return can be made..

They put themselves in an untenable position selling the bit they did. Now they are trying to legislate that a publicly owned company not do what is in the interest of their shareholders.
Its a fooookin shambles it is.

[Rocker]

Major,

If you consult the latest SE QLD plan, you will find that the northern boundary of Brisbane is Elimbah Creek, which is at least a kilometre to the north of my place. OK, so I am not quite downtown, but I expect to enjoy the amenities of living within a major metropolis :)

Rocker

[Gingermick]

but I expect to enjoy the amenities of living within a major metropolis :)
Rocker

Then you should probably move to a real city :p

[zathras]

Outback,

Tried to give you a greenie but I need to spread some more luvin around

Arrooooohhhhhh

:D :D

[Gingermick]

Then there is the so called "local loop" legislation, which requires Telstra to install and maintain the cable runs into to brand new housing estates. .

In all the housing estate that we do, a letter is sent to Telstra requesting an offer of supply. They then respomd with a price and the developer accepts or has a worthless estate.
I'm not sure, but think that most developers are looking, always, for the cheapest option. If they were offered optic fibres at 2 or 3 times the cost they would still choose the copper. (At least the developers I work with)

[MajorPanic]

Then you should probably move to a real city :p

What's that Mick?...... any city south of RockVagas???? :p

[MajorPanic]

I expect to enjoy the amenities of living within a major metropolis :)

As you should David, within a days walk of a state capital, have it all!!

[outback]

Outback,

Tried to give you a greenie but I need to spread some more luvin around

Arrooooohhhhhh



:D :D

I was wunderin' when someone would pick up. :D

[Gingermick]

What's that Mick?...... any city south of RockVagas???? :p

Of where? I was talking about any city other than that aweful place an hour north of the gold coast. :D


I was wunderin' when someone would pick up.

We're fans of woodwork and tools, we dont 'pick up' well

[Schtoo]

Actually Adrian, I'd expect there to be faults and problems all the time here.

All overhead lines, lots more lines, and they have to deal with typhoons, snow and pretty ugly heat.

It's why I mentioned it. I remember having several problems with phone lines back in Oz (I wasn't paying the bill though), but never hearing of one here. I would fully expect that there would be many more problems here, but there isn't.

Simply put, something isn't adding up.

Kiwi, yeah people do sell them on. And people still buy them, even though they are planning to phase them out within a few years. One of the reasons we didn't buy one, just renting it over 7 years. After that time, we own it. If we don't stay that long, then we save cash anyway.

But hardly anyone (including locals) knows you can do that. ;)

At least NHK doesn't bother asking for their money when I answer the door now. Last time was 'hablas Espanóla?' Confuses the heck out of them. :D

Outback, I noticed. And I believe it's true. ;)

[Rocker]

Adrian,

Question: Tennant Creek is not quite as far away from network infrastructure as some of the places I visited last month, so how is it that without the miracle of Telstra, I was paying less than 50c an hour for broadband internet in the back blocks of Siberia, and Mongolia??


:cool: :cool: :cool:

Seeing that Midge is apparently suggesting that Outer Mongolians regularly order their yakburgers from MacDonald's, Ulaan Bator, online with their mobiles, perhaps Sol Trujillo needs to be sent there to study how things are done in other places with a lot of outback.

Rocker

[outback]

Don't send the bastard to me!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :eek: :mad: :eek: :mad:

[adrian]

Adrian,

I live in an area that, according to the latest plan, lies within the 'urban footprint' of Brisbane. When I look up when we are due to get broadband, the answer is "August". It is now mid-September, and still no broadband. If this is the service we 'city' folk get from Telstra, God help the bush.

Rocker
You should go to Optus or Vodaphone or any one of the other overseas owned telcos and see if they can do it faster.
The answer you will probably get is 'we don't do that sort of thing. We wait until Telstra upgrades the exchanges and street cabling and then we get a piggyback.'

[bitingmidge]

Heave ho me hearties!! I'd be thinking this is actually the original Pirate thread!!!


P
:D

[Grunt]

Heave ho me hearties!! I'd be thinking this is actually the original Pirate thread!!!


Yar, is the sun over the yard arm yet, ya slimy bilge rat?


Is it still called a hijack if it's done by pirates?

[Daddles]

Is it still called a hijack if it's done by pirates?

Nah, just part of the job description. It's only a hijack when he makes a sensible contribution to a thread. Fortunately, he tends to resist the temptation :D

Richard

[Rocker]

Adrian,

Four weeks on; and still no progress in getting broadband for my exchange, which was originally promised for August. The only change is that the promised date is now "October". I am not holding my breath. If Telstra treats its customers like mushrooms, feeding them manure and keeping them in the dark, why are they surprised that they are losing market share?

Rocker

[Bodgy]

If Telstra treats its customers like mushrooms, feeding them manure and keeping them in the dark, why are they surprised that they are losing market share?

Rocker

They're not surprised, they simply don't give two monkeys ...'s

Telstra is still simply the rump of an old State Owned Enterprise. The vast majority of employees have the Public Service attitude still, drag your boots into work, do the minimum to get by, go home.

As they still own the copper and the exchanges, there's effectively no competition in this area.

Maybe Taco Bill and his imports will sort it our after privatisation, but thats two very big 'ifs'