Huon Pine Dining Table restoration

[Jewels]

Thanks for the add! I'm looking for advice/opinions from this huge bank of knowledge, I'll try to be succinct!
My mother-in-law (MIL) asked me to finish a restoration she started on her kitchen table. She had stripped (not sure how) the top but the rest was not touched.
The tables history, likely lived in a work shed (given the grease/oil marks I found), was painted twice (green then orange) and had a vinyl covering on the top at some stage attached with nails at the edge. When MIL purchase the item some 30+ years ago she had it dipped and finished to a dark walnut looking colour. Its made of huon pine...and MIL says its 120 years old!
In steps me...I've stripped all of the dark finish and of course found the beautiful wood underneath. Heres a pic of the original colour shown on the legs. 411756

Here is the top, I'm up to 320 grit so far:
411758

During the stripping I found what I can only think of as 'drip' (from the acid dip) marks on the underside of the table. These had been filled. and then discovered the nailed edges which had also been filled.

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There are a few age splits in the timber top....this is the worst one, but I cant see daylight though it so alls good.

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So I'm seeking your opinions on
1) As some of the wood putty has seen better days (some has completely fallen out), can I just re-putty over them or do I need to dig out the old putty and put in fresh........OR dont bother with either and continue with finishing.
2) With the splits...I've managed to convince MIL that the splits/marks are part of its history so not to go filling them in. However should I stabilise the splits first...superglue? before finishing and if so, should I clean out the splits so the dark colour isnt so pronouced...if so how?

I plan on finishing the table with the dewaxed white shellac followed by EEE that I read about in another thread.
All comments taken on board....I'm learning as I go.......so be gentle ;-)

[Xanthorrhoeas]

Welcome to the forums. If people are not gentle here then report them to the moderators, this is a forum for gentle people to share knowledge and enthusiasm for all sorts of wood work and other crafts.

The table is one of those shapes that makes determining age somewhat difficult - construction technique information would help. For example, if full mortise and tenon construction it will be earlier, if dowel joints it will be later.

It appears to me to be likely to be circa 1890 to 1920. What size is it? a five foot table (about 1500 mm) long was common as a kitchen table and most Huon kitchen tables were about that size. The distinction is important because kitchen tables and dining tables were finished very differently.

For a start, kitchen tables often had shellac finished legs and rails but the top was scrubbed bare - down to the wood, for cleanliness. Dinisng tables would have been French Polished with shellac using a rubber, a much higher standard of finish.

IMHO Dewaxed white shellac and EEE are great for turned products but not for antiques. Don't sweat the cracks and nail holes. Antiques have patina - that shows they are old and gives them their value.

Let me know the size and some construction details and I'll advise further. others may have different views (the forums are a diverse lot).

David

[Jewels]

Thanks David, a historical old piece is so interesting. This is why I'm leaning towards restoration to reduce land fill, re-use and re-love.

The table is quite large, 2120mm x 1010mm. The following has been observed and may or may not be relevant..........
The joints are mortise and tenon. The glue I believe is hide as it goes very soft when wet. I was going to remove the legs and put them on my lathe to clean off the dark stain and lacquer but I couldnt get them to budge....probably good in hindsight.

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The rails are attached by screws as shown.
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The underside of the table is quite rough with a few gouges. It appears that at some stage in its life it had different bracing (sorry dont know tech name) on the rails due to colour variation and numerous holes on the underside of the table after dark stain was removed. The difference in colour across the whole of the underside is due to it not being level. I didnt feel it was necessary (or even correct) to plane it all smooth.
411827411828

The 'new' bracing on the rails is screwed or nailed, I havent removed the old filler to determine this.
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And for completeness I include a pic of the end of a table leg which I thought may have been a different wood due to the precise mark (around all four legs). However I can see that the grain is the same through the mark and its extremely soft like the rest of the table.....so now the novice in me is displayed :-/

411824

If it is antique as you suggest it may be, then I'm keen to know how best to finish it. MIL would like to continue using it as a dining table. I believe the original reason she wanted it all taken back because it was too dark and had too many water and heat marks. So she would like to avoid such things in the future. I'm not sure how it was finished 30+ years ago after its acid dip but it wasn't removable by chemical so probably a lacquer??
Looking forward to reading your responses. Warm regards, Jewels

[Xanthorrhoeas]

I am wondering how you know that it is Huon Pine? Does it have the distinctive Huon smell or has someone told you that it is Huon? The reason that I ask is that it does not look like Huon Pine to me - it looks like Kauri Pine.

That length and design, with mortise and tenon joints and a thumbnail edge will have been made as a dining table. Dining tables of that age - probably about 1890-1910 (based on the chamfered off corner on the top of the leg) - would have been French Polished.

The difference is significant. Huon Pine dining tables like that are uncommon I believe, whereas Kauri Pine tables from that period are common. If it is Huon it would most likely not have been stained, just French Polished with brown button shellac (which is still available). The shellac tended to react with the natural oiliness of the Huon and could become rough, it also developed a rich orange-brown colour with time.

Early Kauri Pine furniture was fairly rare (one example below) and was not stained, just French Polished. However, every later Kauri dining table or desk that I have seen was stained a light-brown, cedar/mahogany colour and then French Polished. I do not have a photo to hand. Not as dark as the stain that you have removed, mind, that just looked fake, more a transparent stain that showed the timber but with some colour to match the taste of the time for brown cedar and mahogany furniture.

Some examples (only happy snaps, sorry):

412480 Huon Pine - fairly distinctive figure, French Polished (new table) 2012
412481 Huon Pine, richer colour, antique circa 1870
412482 Huon Pine even richer colour, circa 1840
412483 Kauri Pine, antique circa 1850 French Polished, no stain used (i.e. natural colour), faded with time

To be continued ...

[Xanthorrhoeas]

The attachment of the top to the rails by "pocket hole" screws is pretty normal, though a practice frowned upon in contemporary construction because it does not allow expansion or contraction of the top relative to the rails. (As an aside, and for [possible] interest only, earlier tables had the top attached by "glue blocks", i.e. rectangular or triangular blocks of wood glued to both the top and the side of the rails with animal glue (hoof & hide). They tend to fall off if there is a lot of temperature and humidity variation, but I have some furniture with them still attached after 150 years).

Make sure that you do not screw these really tight when you put the top back on - just tight enough that it doesn't rattle but hopefully loose enough to allow a bit of movement. All wood expands and contracts with moisture.humidity and temperature. However, for a proper restoration you would not change that system.

So ... if it is Huon Pine you should sand it to at least 600 grit (I usually go to 1000) then French Polish with brown button shellac (shines.com.au (http://shines.com.au/)) using a polishing rubber. If you look at the forums home page you will see a reference to a polisher's handbook by Neil Ellis. I recommend that you purchase that as it tells you how to polish and much more (I am not affiliated financially or otherwise, but I have found the book useful).

I have never stained Kauri (if that is what it is) so cannot offer advice. Some pines do not take stain well because they are resinous, but I cannot imagine that antique Kauri would present a problem. Certainly the antique stained examples I have seen had a nice even colouring.

[Jewels]

Thanks so much for your feedback David. So either the 'oldies' (as we call the parents) or me are losing marbles....probably a bit of both. I see my future memory fails ahead of me...its worrying.
So, on calling MIL to talk about the table she straight away said it was kauri pine....*sigh*, which fits perfectly for me because I was worried that my sense of smell was deteriorating too!
So spot on and thank you for pointing it out.

French polish it is.........living in country Vic is challenging when purchasing specialised products, so online shopping is a must...sadly.
I'll keep the piece light as there are some lovely light grains in the wood too, dont want to lose that too much.

To top it all, MIL father was a french polisher in Sydney.....so she is actually anti french polish because she cant put a cup of tea on the table. *sigh*....I mean who puts hot things on a wooden top without using a coaster anyway :doh:

I'll put up some pics of the finished piece if I'm feeling brave....might be a few months before that happens though. She'll probably end up selling it as she is thinking it will be too delicate to use and too much work to protect it from damage. I'll talk to her about history and patina one day.......
Best wood wishes ........ keep up the great work.

[Xanthorrhoeas]

Hi Jewels,

There might just be a solution that suits both you and your MIL. UBeaut sell, already in liquid form, something they call Hard Shellac (other suppliers like Shines also sell a Hard Shellac but I haven't tried theirs). Hard shellac is used just like ordinary shellac and you can French Polish with it. The difference with Hard Shellac is that once it sets (cross links they call it) after 3 weeks, it is moisture and heat resistant. That means that liquid spills and hot cups on it have much less of an affect. if wiped off promptly there will be no damage whatsoever. It is not waterproof - if you leave a pool of water on it you will get damage - a milky mark - but it is repairable rather than completely removing the polish. If you also polish the surface with a good furniture wax (UBeaut sell one too) then you get double protection from spills etc.

UBeaut products are available on-line and are made in Geelong. There are a number of on-line suppliers including Carba-tec and CWS CWS Store - U Beaut Polishes (http://www.cwsonline.com.au/shop/category/271151)

It sounds like I'm an agent for UBeaut or CWS but I'm not, I've never even met Neil Ellis, I just recognise and appreciate quality products when I find them.

Good luck,

David

[Jewels]

Well what a wonderful experience learning french polishing was....and I'm hooked!
Here are a few pics of the finished piece:

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Top detail

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Look at that shine! Proud!

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Picture MIL posted on facebook because she is very happy with the result. Happy MIL = happy husband :-)

What I learned:
* French polishing a large table in winter time is great.....it warms you up just lovely, also keeps you fit.:U
* French polishing in winter time sucks when its too cold for the shellac to dry :no: (avg 12 - 15 degrees during the day), I ended up using an electric heater in my shed to assist with drying.
* Hard shellac doesn't like the cold either, I ended up thinning it quite a bit because it was getting 'cloggy'. This just meant that I ended up with lots of thin layers.....which is what you want anyway.
* Whilst the table legs were a killer to strip they were really easy to polish up....that surprised me, pleasantly.

I'm already planning the next FP project....a SMALL trolley table, circa 1959...lots of lovely veneer.

One happy bunny here.......thanks for advice too, couldn't of done it without you :;