Concrete Footings...Is there a better way?

[Flyboy]

G'day guys,

Just wanted to ask your opinion about pouring the footings for the house we're building. The site is 4wd access only (local council rules - no exceptions apparently) and I've been unable to find anyone with a 4wd or front wheel assisted drive concrete truck. So what we're planning to do is bring the concrete in using 2 Manitous carrying 1m3 concrete kibbles each.

If you look at the plan I've attached, it shows that we need to pour about 7m3 for the blob footings at the front and 8m3 for the slab at the back. There is roughly 1500mm clearance either side of the slab (1600 if I lean on the neighbour's fence really hard:)). The distance from the back of the slab to the front blob footings is about 16.5m. So what I'm thinking we need to do is get the concreters to form up the footings, then use the Manitous to pour the footings, then get the concreters to form up the slab, then pour the slab, basically doubling up on everything.

What I wanted to know from you blokes is .... is there a better way???

Rather than paying almost about double for the formwork and materials handling, it would be much better if we could get both the formwork and concreting done in one hit - ie all the formwork done one day, then the concrete poured the next.

I've also thought about:

getting a labourer to wheelbarrow the concrete to the footings but the jury is still out on if this is more cost effective.

pouring the slab in 2 parts but apparently the structural engineer says this is right out.

getting a telescopic Manitou which could sit behind the slab, reach over and pour the front footings. Unfortunately, the longest reach Manitou I could find in Sydney could reach about 12m and the load it could carry at that distance was around 800kg.

doing all the formwork, then pour the slab, wait til it cures, then pour the footings. However, not sure if the middle of the slab will take a loaded Manitou and we still have to get the Manitous out twice.

Anyway, Ive racked my brains all day and haven't been able to come up with anything better. Just wondering if I haven't missed something blindingly obvious....:rolleyes:

Cheers

[echnidna]

Use a concrete pump.

[Dan_574]

you'll find that dual rear axle concrete trucks have diff lock in the rear making them 4wd, ie all the rear wheels drive so if theresenough room they should be allowed in and at 6m3 a go it shouldnt be a problem

[ozwinner]

Talk to a local concreter, but as Bob has said, use a pump.
Wheelbarrows, Manitous??? :eek:

Al :D

[glock40sw]

Ditto on the concrete pump truck.

You would be amazed at where those blokes can get to.
The pump trucks also have dual rear axles with diff locks, thus making them 4WD.

Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor
Grafton

[Tools]

I am with the others...form it all up and pour in one hit with a line or boom pump.

Tools

[Gingermick]

Or get a little D8 and push yerself a nice flat track one night.

[Flyboy]

Thanks for the replies.

Still arguing with the council about the concrete trucks being 4wd. They're saying unless the vehicle has some kind of front wheel drive it's not allowed. I reckon a concrete truck would get down there as the RFS get their 8 tonne firetruck down there no worries (afterall, it's a firetrail) but the council won't hear a bar of it.

Apologies for not mentioning it in my first post, but the firetrail is about 1500m long. Asked around about running a line down there, and the blokes who didn't laugh at me said there would probably be about 25m3 in the line on top of whatever we poured.

The little research I've done on concrete pumps trucks has led me to believe it's the same deal with them as with the concrete trucks - 4wd dual rear axles but nothing on the front wheels. Am more than willing to be told otherwise :)

[Dan_574]

is the track in good order, no ruts or wash aways, if the concrete truck is willing to go down there whats the problem. By the way how will you get in there once the house is built.

[Gaza]

bugger.....

sounds way expensive and any one how r u going to get to your house when it is finished.

You can pour both footings and slab in one day, you may have to pour all the footsings then let them go off for 1/2 hour (morning tea time) then pour the slab.

Manitours will cost you a bomb,

try to ring around all the local and far concrete plants some one must have a 4wd truck, i know there is a concrete plant at penrth that is not part of a big co and has differnt trucks maybe give them a go, or get a 4wd tipper there are a few of these around ex state rail etc, you may still have to barrow to the corners but shore will save you some $$$.

[Flyboy]

The track is for the most part OK, just a bit steep in parts. The problem is not if the truck will get down there, which I think it will, but that the council won't let you take it down there. I could risk it on the sly, but if we get caught we lose tha $5K bond and further use of the trail, which would totally bugger up the rest of the job.

Normal access to the block is by boat. Found a bloke who could barge 5m3 concrete trucks in, and at $2200 a day that was looking good. Then we found out we'd have to pay for him bringing the barge up the day before. Then we found out he could only load the truck when it was almost high tide. Then we found out that in September there were only around 4 days when the tide was high enough, and that was at late afternoon, only leaving enough time to do 1 load each day. So all of a sudden, its a 4 day/$9000 exercise to pour the concrete.:eek:

Gaza, you don't happen to know anyone that operates a 4wd tipper in Sydney. I've heard about ex-state rail ones, but haven't had any luck finding one.

Cheers

[Dan_574]

just get a traxacavator or large front end loader, fill the bucket with concrete and drive down the track, use a skidsteer down at the site to unload concrete for the front pads, drive between the fence and slab and fill pads by hand.

Otherwise these are the joys of owning your dream block I guess.

[journeyman Mick]

Flyboy,
if you can't get a 4x4 or FWA tipper or concrete truck I would:
Barge in pallets of cement bags and bulk fertilizer bags (1 M3) full of premix (sand & gravel mix). Have it all delivered to the barge staging point and get it all loaded on along with a manitou.
Unload at other end using manitou to walk materials up to site.
Get a bobcat with a cement mixer attachment to mix and place the concrete.

Surely someone in Sydney will have a bobcat (or manitou) with a cement mixer on a quik hitch. I've got a mate here that's got one for his bobcat. There's scales set up on his hydraulic line so he can accurately batch up and he mixes a one bag mix in a few minutes. Just a matter of scooping up the premix with the agitator (no shovelling), throwing in a bag of cement and the right amount of water and driving it to where it's to be poured. By the time you've got the bobcat in position the concrete is mixed, you place it and go back for a nother load.

Mick

[vsquizz]

C,mon Mick, now tell the truth...I seen you guys up there in Cairns pouring concrete...you used a bloody Russian helicopter...trying to convince us you work hard and use Bobcats an stuff:rolleyes: .

BTW been looking at the mixers for my machine:o

I'd be looking at moving it in a GP bucket on a small loader like a IT28 (928) if the brew is correctly ordered for the time it will take.

Cheers

[Flyboy]

G'day Mick. Yeah, you suggested drymix to me in another thread I think, and I did have a look into it. I was looking at bringing it in either on the barge or the back of my ute, but there ended up being a couple of issues. First, it worked out to be about double the cost of premix, without counting labour for mixing. Second, couldn't find a bobcat mixer in Sydney for love or money:(. I would have rang about 15 operators. No hire places have them either. Apparently no one ever used to wash them out, so they got rid of them.

Will check out the small loaders today. Thanks

[Tools]

If you can't take 6m maxi trucks down the track,can you do it with minis?It will cost more than maxis,but will be a lot less rooting around.

Tools

[outback]

It seems to me that you can't do what you can afford and you can't afford what you can do.

So you can either.
1. Build somewhere else. You probably don't like that idea.
2. Workout if it's cost effective to possibly lose the $5K bond and get the trucks in anyway.
3. Mix on site, as per Micks idea, or possibly modifying to suit.

[Gaza]

sorry dont actual know some who has got one just seen them around, you could try getting a copy of truck trader mag, you could buy them for around 12k last time i looked. may be could start up a weekend business if all the houses around you are built this way.

[leeton]

Build the house on stumps...or what about the neighbours...how did he do it.

[Pulpo]

I like the idea of a traxcavator.

The scoops are fairly large and would hold at a guess 1m3.

However the damage it may do to the track could be great.

If a truck got bogged or stuck they would use such a piece of equipment to pull it out.

I have seen the bobcat cement mixers in action which are impressive.

You may try regional areas.

Good Luck

Pulpo

[Pulpo]

I like the idea of a traxcavator.

The scoops are fairly large and would hold at a guess 1m3.

However the damage it may do to the track could be great.

If a truck got bogged or stuck they would use such a piece of equipment to pull it out.

I have seen the bobcat cement mixers in action which are impressive.

You may try regional areas.

What truck size restrictions are in place

Good Luck

Pulpo

[davo453]

Dingo offer a mixer on their machines (think its only about .1 cmtr tho), try www.dingo.ws for your local Dingo branch office they will know of any contractors that have bought them.

Cheers


Dave

[echnidna]

Maybe you're stuck with the job of mixing the concrete onsite.
How are you getting all the heavy materials (bricks & rooftiles etc) onsite?

[Flyboy]

G'day all,
All the heavy material will be moved with a manitou for the big loads, and a ute for small amounts. To give you an idea, for about $900 a day, the manitou will move about 40 tonnes with no manhandling. For about $2000 a day, the barge will move 50 tonnes but all the gear has to be carried by hand from the foreshore to the back of the site.

The neighbours have either mixed by hand for smaller pours or used the barge.

A dingo with a bucket could be the go. Not sure if it would be faster than a wheelbarrow.

Talked to the builder and he reckons the bracing for the formwork will be about 300-400mm outside the slab, giving us 1100-1200 gap between the slab and the fence. So a small loader/bobcat is out apparently.

There are no restrictions on truck size, just that they must be 4wd or FWA. Thought about sacraficing the $5k, but the problem with that is we'll lose access to the trail. The rest of the material will have to come in by barge, which I'm guessing would add another $20k.

Hadn't thought of a traxcavator. Any advantages of these over a manitou?

Cheers

[Dan_574]

if the track isnt too steep put your concrete trucks on a trailer and tow them in with some big

[ausdesign]

a couple of questions -

whats a blob footing ?
if it is a 'council road' (& they've approved the subdivision) why haven't they got the responsibility to make access available to normal vehicles ?

Just curious.

[davo453]

A Dingo or similar would be quicker than a wheel barrow as they don't get tired and hills aren’t a problem, mind you it's expensive to have more than one were as wheel barrows are cheap.

The minimum practical width of a Dingo with a bucket and still be able to go off road is 1050mm they can safely move 250kg (or much more if your brave).

If necessary they can be craned in they weigh about 900kg.

Just thought I’d give that info as I have one (biased I guess :) )

Cheers


Dave

[journeyman Mick]

For your application a manitou would be better than a traxcavator/trackloader. The manitou can "jib" loads in further and is more versatile - you can fit forks, 3 in 1 bucket, or a fly jib to it and the boom will extend a long way. You could probably use it to bucket the concrete to (or at least closer to) the non accesible areas. A tracked machine is good on very rocky ground which will chew up tyres but it will make a mess of your tracks, especially when it turns. The manitou will have 4 wheel steering, front wheel only steering, rear only and crabbing (bothe sets of wheels steer in the same direction so you can angle sideways). At a guess I'd say the manitou will have a greater speed over the ground so you'll walk your loads in a lot faster.

Mick

[julianx]

you could wait for the next cold snap

[julianx]

or miracle

[johnno402002]

Would trailer mix pulled in by a 4x4 (or two)be any good?

[Flyboy]

Ausdesign,
The blob footings are roughly 900x900x400 pads of concrete which the steel piers will be bolted to. The subdivision was approved without road access, and apparently because the gradient of the firetrail exceeds the AS for a public road, its going to stay a firetrail.

Dan and Johnno,
Council won't allow trailers:rolleyes:

Mick and Davo,
Thanks. Manitou (and maybe dingo) it is. The manitou we're looking at can take a load of 2700kg, or jib a load of 800kg to 12m. So that should cover the slab and the closest 2 rows of footings. That leaves about 2m3 for the front 2 rows of footings which could be done by dingo (or barrow). What do you think?

Will the dingo get on the back of a ute though?

Cheers

[Flyboy]

Had another thought.

The manitou can lift a load fo 1000kg up to 7m at a reach of 7m. That's still 10m short of the furthest footings. Can you hire some kind of chute to slide the concrete down to the front?

Just an idea ....

[Dan_574]

When are you looking to build, if you have time you could always try taking the decision not to allow a 6x4 concrete truck into the area higher, in Victoria it would be to the civil admintritive tribunal. I dont know what your equivalent is but to say you have to have a 4wd which the truck is and then say oh no if its got 3 axles it has to be 6wd is bull ****. These councils think they are god, if its really a problem like I said before have a dozer or similar on standby to tow it out, I can understand that they wouldnt want the track tied up in bush fire season but outside that what is the problem, your the one that will be responsible and if the concrete company is willing to put there trucks down there why not. I say if you have time fight it, its crap.

[Dan_574]

They do exist flyboy, now if you dont want to buy it, you just have to find one.

[Dan_574]

im finding heaps on google but its not helping much I suppose heres another,

[Flyboy]

Thanks Dan, those trucks are exactly what I've been looking for.:D Will just have to hunt down who hires them out.

Totally agree with you about the council regs being crap. Unfortunately, I'm hoping to kick off within the month, so we're probably a bit short on time to take it higher. Spent plenty of nights lying awake thinking about it, though.

Cheers

[davo453]

Yes a Dingo will go on the back of a ute, obviously you will need some decent ramps as it weighs about 800-900kg depending on the model, the hire place should be able to sort you out there.

Cheers



Dave

[journeyman Mick]

The manitou or loader could probably carry the dingo in, save having to muck around with ramps.

Mick